DF-03 winter project : some questions

[stefke]

I decided to have some fun this winter turning a DF03 into a racecar. I know many people tried this already but since I can't find a serious race report (besides Jimmy's, but that was with an almost bone stock DF03) and given the fact that I just LOVE the DF03 concept, I decided to give it a try myself.

I got a TRF501X to race so it's not going to be disaster if all goes wrong, and I end up with a good basher/training/foul weather car.

So I went to the internet and ordered the following at my usual HK supplier :


DF03 Dark Impact kit (sorry for all the Keen Hawk fans, but the DI has a racier look :D)
3racing chassis kit
3racing universals
Tamiya slipper (will use B4 spur)
front oneway
3racing CF shock towers
3racing rear hinge pin brace
3racing front hinge pin brace
Kanzen 3mm diff balls (OK, not from HK ;) )
3racing Ti turnbuckles


Now from what I've read, the main issues in turning the DF03 into a top class racing car seems to be the following :

No anti-squad
No castor in the hubs
wheelbase 1cm too short.


Am I missing something ?

I'm going to try the car first with all the hopups and check a few things out for myself but I'm thinking about doing the following :


Use TRF501X front arms and hubs (have to check trackwidth)
Take my dremel and modify the rear gearbox so I can mount anti-squad hinge pin braces
eventually, making my own chassis based on the 3racing chassis but longer and more side-by-side cell friendly


If you guys are interested, I'll keep you posted on the progres

Just got a message from the homefront : the postman deliverd a big package for me ! :)

[V-Rossi]

Will you test it sunday in Arendonk?:)

[stefke]

Will you test it sunday in Arendonk?:)

Propably, because astro is the surface I want to build it for. The TRF501X drivetrain suffers a bit on high grip astro and all the tracks in my area are astro.

It could take a while though.

[budgio]

You may want to add the Df-03 hop up shocks to your project and the heatsink bars.;)

[stefke]

You may want to add the Df-03 hop up shocks to your project and the heatsink bars.;)


Didn't mention it but I'll be using a set of AE B4 shocks. Those Tamiya plastic shocks are just a notch over "useless" :D

I forgot to order the heatsink bars. Thanks :rolleyes:

[stefke]

Well, I came home from work and look what I found. Let the project begin.

[stefke]

First step : Modify some alu pieces of the 3racing chassis so it accepts side-by-side cells. I just wonder why 3racing made the chassis so it accepts only stick packs :rolleyes:

[stefke]

The kit went together like a charm ! I was pleasantly surprised to see that the typical "Tamiya slop" I always had on my tamiya's in the 90'ies is as good as gone !
anyway, this is how it looks after 1 night's work.

[jamminj650]

The kit went together like a charm ! I was pleasantly surprised to see that the typical "Tamiya slop" I always had on my tamiya's in the 90'ies is as good as gone !
anyway, this is how it looks after 1 night's work.Nice build.... I have to ask you how you made the decsicion to go with the df03. Did you research or look at other cars. I have been contemplating to either purchase the df03 or wait for the new DB01 Durga. Can someone help me make a desciion. I will be racing at a professional track. I have been running Pro 1/8 scale for 4 years and it's time for a break..... I want something that will not let me down... I want to run Tamyia and I don't want to spend the money on th 501X.

[DCM]

right, few tipsters for you with regard to rear wishbone mounting.....

you either need to make a new motor plate to move the motor a little further forward and a little higher, to not do this will mean you can't get the front suspension block in... OR.... you can raise the whole rear gearbox to do the same. You will need to extend the chassis at the rear to accomodate the rear block.

I did ask them to do these things when they were making the conversion..... but hey... they ignored me.

I don't beleive the TRF suspension fits. But I think someone (3Racing?) are doing caster blocks for the front now.

Buy another set of tamiya front diff outdrives.... and use them on the rear!

Buy shims and shim the gearboxes!!!

I am sure there is more

[stefke]

@ jamminj650 :

I chose the DF03 for its intriguing layout and the endless hopup abilities. It's just a project for me as I'll still be racing the TRF501X at our nationals. After all, I became vice-champion this year so I'm not complaining about the performance of the TRF. I'd say the Durga is a safer bet in terms of performance because of its proven TRF501X suspension.

@DCM :

During the build, I already figured the rear outdrives could cause problems in the longer term, so they will be included in my next HK order.

about the gearbox : having driven a ZX5 in 2006, I take GOOD care when it comes to gear mesh :D

The rear wishbone mounting : I'll be making a longer chassis this winter so I'll have a good look at the possibilities. Does Tamiya make something like the antisquad block on a Losi XXX CR ? The easiest option would indeed be to tilt the entire rear gearbox. I did this before as an emergency measure but it's a bit of a crude sollution.

Do you have some more info on the castor blocks ? 3racing and the other hopup companies all have alu blocks but they don't mention castor.

Just a thought : i noticed a slight sweepback on the front wishbones. I was thinking of flipping the wishbones back to front to gain some extra wheelbase. The shocks will be mounted on the front of the shocktower then.

[jimmy]

I shimmed up the front of the gearbox to get a little anti-squat. not much since I didn't want to raise the motor too much.

[Rob H]

I decided to have some fun this winter turning a DF03 into a racecar. I know many people tried this already but since I can't find a serious race report (besides Jimmy's, but that was with an almost bone stock DF03) and given the fact that I just LOVE the DF03 concept, I decided to give it a try myself.

I got a TRF501X to race so it's not going to be disaster if all goes wrong, and I end up with a good basher/training/foul weather car.

So I went to the internet and ordered the following at my usual HK supplier :

DF03 Dark Impact kit (sorry for all the Keen Hawk fans, but the DI has a racier look :D)
3racing chassis kit
3racing universals
Tamiya slipper (will use B4 spur)
front oneway
3racing CF shock towers
3racing rear hinge pin brace
3racing front hinge pin brace
Kanzen 3mm diff balls (OK, not from HK ;) )
3racing Ti turnbuckles
Now from what I've read, the main issues in turning the DF03 into a top class racing car seems to be the following :

No anti-squad
No castor in the hubs
wheelbase 1cm too short.
Am I missing something ?

I'm going to try the car first with all the hopups and check a few things out for myself but I'm thinking about doing the following :

Use TRF501X front arms and hubs (have to check trackwidth)
Take my dremel and modify the rear gearbox so I can mount anti-squad hinge pin braces
eventually, making my own chassis based on the 3racing chassis but longer and more side-by-side cell friendly
If you guys are interested, I'll keep you posted on the progres

Just got a message from the homefront : the postman deliverd a big package for me ! :)

You are doing exactly what I am going to do over the winter, I am looking to make a lightweight racer out of the df-03 with new purpose made chassis.

I read some of your issues, I am new at this, interested in your comment chassis is 1cm to short?, what problems does this result in?, if you make the chassis longer presumably you will have to use a longer drive shaft, are these available. I have seen a kit conversion available fro 7 battery.

[stefke]

After seeing some video's of the DF03 on track and also from feedback here on the forum and from Jimmy's review, I found the DF03 looks jitterisch driving out of corners. A longer wheelbase gives more stability.

Making a longer driveshaft isn't doo difficult if you can use a lathe. But I also noticed that the driveshaft ends of my Hopup shaft from Yeah Racing are attached with pins. So all I have to do is push out the pins, remove the ends and find some alumiunium tube of the correct diameter and I can make any driveshaft length I want. :)

[jamminj650]

@ jamminj650 :

I chose the DF03 for its intriguing layout and the endless hopup abilities. It's just a project for me as I'll still be racing the TRF501X at our nationals. After all, I became vice-champion this year so I'm not complaining about the performance of the TRF. I'd say the Durga is a safer bet in terms of performance because of its proven TRF501X suspension.

@DCM :

During the build, I already figured the rear outdrives could cause problems in the longer term, so they will be included in my next HK order.

about the gearbox : having driven a ZX5 in 2006, I take GOOD care when it comes to gear mesh :D

The rear wishbone mounting : I'll be making a longer chassis this winter so I'll have a good look at the possibilities. Does Tamiya make something like the antisquad block on a Losi XXX CR ? The easiest option would indeed be to tilt the entire rear gearbox. I did this before as an emergency measure but it's a bit of a crude sollution.

Do you have some more info on the castor blocks ? 3racing and the other hopup companies all have alu blocks but they don't mention castor.

Just a thought : i noticed a slight sweepback on the front wishbones. I was thinking of flipping the wishbones back to front to gain some extra wheelbase. The shocks will be mounted on the front of the shocktower then.thanx so much for the feedback. Wow.... I never got this much feed back while running 1/8 scale here in US.... I think Im gonna like this electric thing. I will go with the Durga to start then. If I do opt for the 501x... is there something about spending that much on the car that I will regret. I don't mind fixin....but I do mind every qualifier....:wtf:

[DCM]

shim the gears on the box, makes it better running

use the trf suspension blocks is the best so you take the mounting off the gearbox and onto the chassis.

[BelstenToo]

You may have seen my DF-03 on the other conversion topic, but it's spec is

DF03 Avante mk2 (I always loved the original, but now have a DI shell on order)
3racing universals
Tamiya slipper (have tamiya spurs)
front oneway
3racing CF shock towers
3racing front hinge pin brace
3racing front hinge pin brace on the rear (see photo - it fits with no mods at all)
3racing Ti turnbuckles
3racing Ti screw set (no philips heads:D)
3racing gearbox brace
3racing motor plate
tamiya heatsink barsI did have the 3racing chassis kit but wasn't that happy with it, so have sold it and bought the mono 7 cell chassis to increase the wheelbase and it comes with a longer driveshaft. I'm impressed with it for £16 inc shipping.

[BelstenToo]

And finally, now I've worked out how to attach them here's some photos!

[BelstenToo]

And some more. Please shout if you want me to delete them as I didn't mean to hijack the topic so much! :o

[stefke]

good info obout the Mono 7 cell chassis. I had been thinking about it myself.

Question : is it made from a stiffer material compared to the kit chassis ?

[Crazy L]

Watching with interest this here thread:)

However, here's a question or two. Where does the Mono chassis come from as another 10mm wheelbase can be usefull? And secondly, why have none of you used the 3 Racing diff halves? I found the Tamiya ones brittle and were starting to "fall apart" at the bit where the driveshafts slot in, resulting in imminent departure of driveshafts at the front end.

Tried the 3 Racing diff halves, no problems. A nice fit, thrust washers fit well, as does everything else.

[Rob H]

I read some of your issues, I am new at this, interested in your comment chassis is 1cm to short?, what problems does this result in?, if you make the chassis longer presumably you will have to use a longer drive shaft, are these available. I have seen a kit conversion available for 7 battery.

This is the chassis I am talking about.

Out of interest on wheelbases anyone know how does the length and width of the df-03 compare with the 501x

[stefke]

This is the chassis I am talking about.

Out of interest on wheelbases anyone know how does the length and width of the df-03 compare with the 501x


Give me a few days. My 501 is in 10.000 pieces for its post season overhaul. :)
Wheelbase is a few mm shorter compared to a Losi XXX CR, but that's a 2wd off course.

[BelstenToo]

Question : is it made from a stiffer material compared to the kit chassis ?
Looks the same, in fact if they hadn't moulded mono into it you'd think it was Tamiya that had made it!

[BelstenToo]

Where does the Mono chassis come from as another 10mm wheelbase can be usefull? I got mine from here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tamiya-Dark-Impact-chassis-7-cell-battery-conversion_W0QQitemZ170162688691QQihZ007QQcategory Z34063QQcmdZViewItem
why have none of you used the 3 Racing diff halves? I've not run the car enough to encounter any problems yet!

[Rob H]

Originally Posted by Crazy L http://www.oople.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=67202#post67202)
why have none of you used the 3 Racing diff halves?


On the 3racing diffs i have noticed these advertised for front and rear, does anyone know if these are both the same?

They look the same from the photos, actually it looks like the same photo, however the part numbers are different, DF03-03/HD (rear) and DF03-08/HD (front)

[Crazy L]

I've not seen "front" ones listed, but I got 2 pairs of rears and did the front first, exactly the same parts. The OE rear ones seem to have the thrust washer flange made of plastic which slides on, rubbish, whereas the 3 racing ones are all one piece, well worth the money in my opinion if you're gonna keep the car for some time or actually drive it.

[DCM]

some of the 3Racing stuff is good, some of their metal stuff isn't...... I used the tamiya front diff halves in the rear, far stronger.

[BelstenToo]

shim the gears on the box, makes it better running
Steve, what needed shimming? I thought it was a pretty good fit.

[mutie]

The 3 racing front knuckles are too weak to race with, they bend too easily.

Although the blue aluminium GPM turnbuckles look nice, they too are too weak to race with.

No surprises, they are very cheap.

The 3 racing shock towers seem to be holding up well! and i think the topcad gear cover make an excellent heatsink.

[stefke]

Just an update :

Since the front arms look like they have some sweepback, I tried flipping them over back to front to gain some extra wheelbase. Shock location wasn't a problem. I only had to put the shocks in front of the shocktower.

The result was rather disappointing : I only gained 1,5mm. :eh?: Not worth the hassle.

[BelstenToo]

How's the rest of it coming along Stefke?
The Mono chassis is about 20mm longer than the standard one.

[stefke]

How's the rest of it coming along Stefke?
The Mono chassis is about 20mm longer than the standard one.


20mm seems a bit too much. :(

first, i'm going to test the car in non-customized form sometime next week. Shame my TRF501X is completely disassembled because I wanted to do a side-by-side comparaison.

[Cooper]

update??

[stefke]

Waiting for extra parts from HK.
Especially the DF-02 universals. They fit the DF-03 and have the advantage that the wheel axles of the TRF501X can be fitted. This way, I' will be able to use my TRF/Losi/AE/PL wheels. another advantage of this would be that the offset of the Losi type wheels is smaller compared to the DF03 wheels, giving the car a length-to-width ratio closer to the TRF501X.

By the way, I can use side-by-side cells in the 3Racing chassis without to much problems, thanks to the way I use to solder my corally tubes. I'll try to post some pics.

[Rob H]

[quote=stefke;69310]Waiting for extra parts from HK.
Especially the DF-02 universals. They fit the DF-03 and have the advantage that the wheel axles of the TRF501X can be fitted. This way, I' will be able to use my TRF/Losi/AE/PL wheels. another advantage of this would be that the offset of the Losi type wheels is smaller compared to the DF03 wheels, giving the car a length-to-width ratio closer to the TRF501X. quote]

You might need to check the clearance on the front. Any wheel wider than 25mm or less offset than the standard will probably catch on the steering arm of the front hub. I looked at fitting standard rear wheels to the front and hit this problem. Considered cutting the arm short and re-attach the rod to fit inside the wheel.

[stefke]

Just a quick update (I know, I'm advancing slowly :rolleyes:) :

The rear driveshafts are modified to accept TRF/Losi/AE/PL wheels. Trackwidth has increased from 245mm to 247mm, still within the EFRA 250mm limit.

I'm now working on fitting a TRF501X front suspension. This way, I can also use TRF/Losi/AE/PL wheels at the front but more importantly, It'll increase the wheelbase by about 5mm AND give me some front castor.

pics to follow.

[encore75]

Will the CVDs of the 501x fit, or do you need to get DF02 bones and then slap on some 501x axles to make things work?

Also, has anyone else using the stock dogbones on the DF-03 noticed that they squeak when articulated? At first I had thought I had done a terrible job on the AE shocks that I put on my DF-03 :wtf:, but then tried articulating the suspension without the shocks installed and realized that the metal on metal contact of the dogbones in the outdrives and axles was causing a squeak. :confused:

[stefke]

I didn't notice a squeack with the stock dogbones. It could be caused by those little foams in the outdrives pushing the dogbone pins to hard against the outdrives.

I tried two sollutions : first the DF-02 bones (70mm) with the TRF501 axles, then the complete TRF501X rear driveshafts (64mm). I found that using the complete TRF501X driveshafts with enough spacers and shims on the inside of the hub works best.

[stefke]

as promised :