Mr.Stafford's FS2 Steering mods [Archive]

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kek23k

26-01-2011, 11:21 AM

Just wondered if anyone had managed to snag/steal a template for Ellis' steering rack mods, shown at Petit? Anyone else tried these? Any feedback about them?

MikePimlott

26-01-2011, 12:01 PM

Everyone ive seen try it has been positive about the change.

Roger M is currently having some new parts made in CF

blitzboy

26-01-2011, 12:27 PM

yer steering mod is a huge improvement on the car i ran mine at petit with it also and have to say it so much nicer ,,, just need roger to sort out the full rack now

Darren Boyle

26-01-2011, 12:49 PM

No need to wait for the idea to be ripped off guys..... Ellis is working on the CAD right now and this part we hope will be avialable as a genuine E-SPEED part shortly for the FS2.

There are several other parts in the pipeline too that others may not have spotted being used too, but in light of the ideas being used these will be kept a little quieter until potential release

If you want the genuine bits produced to the exact and correct specs and dimensions, best to wait for Ellis's own items in my opinion.......

mdb_75

26-01-2011, 02:52 PM

To give my FS more lock on the outside wheel I put a 2mm spacer under the steering rack balljoints to push them forwards and also moved the front wishbones rearwards by 2mm. It's transformed mine.

mattb

26-01-2011, 04:05 PM

ive got 2mm behind my ball studs but i havent done that with the wishbones i will try that

Gayo

26-01-2011, 04:14 PM

To give my FS more lock on the outside wheel I put a 2mm spacer under the steering rack balljoints to push them forwards and also moved the front wishbones rearwards by 2mm. It's transformed mine.

How do you do that? By shaving the wishbones?

mdb_75

26-01-2011, 04:32 PM

How do you do that? By shaving the wishbones?
Yeah I filed 2mm off the rear of the wishbones and then used 2mm plastic washers (like that come with the wishbones anyway) on the hingepin, infront of the wishbones to push them rearward.

Pics......

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/mdb_75/DSC00585small.jpg

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q227/mdb_75/6small.jpg

RogerM

26-01-2011, 05:07 PM

My parts should have been ready before Xmas but as many of you know I'm somewhat time limited at the moment :(

Scorpion has to be my priority with the limited time I have available for RC related stuff. That said I too have some interesting parts in the pipeline for the Kyosho cars and a couple of others ;)

I keep looking at the front wishbone mod as shown above, very popular in the states. By doing that you are also moving the weight further forward in the wheelbase .... will suit some but not others.

kek23k

26-01-2011, 07:58 PM

Oops, not trying to tread on anyone's toes and quite happy to wait for production 'E-Speed' mods, I was more curious as to whether anyone else had been running similar mods and what the general opinion was on them. I'm not even racing at the moment so it is just a general interest in design changes :D

Darren Boyle

26-01-2011, 11:50 PM

Hi, dont worry you are treading any any ones toes. Just keen to ensure that Ellis's "tuning parts" dont all get copied by onlookers looking to cash in on his ideas....

kek23k

27-01-2011, 12:05 AM

Cool :). I actually wasn't aware that there would be any official E-Speed stuff for the FS2 so that's good news :) Will the ackerman mods be incorporated into the rack brace? I think that would be quite elegant and probably a bit stronger too.

Looking forward to seeing what other products appear :D

njc11

27-01-2011, 07:25 AM

Hi, dont worry you are treading any any ones toes. Just keen to ensure that Ellis's "tuning parts" dont all get copied by onlookers looking to cash in on his ideas....

:lol: oh dear...:thumbdown:

I think you'll find people are trying to make an already good car much better... i dont think it is a question of people trying to cash in or copy..

Any experienced top class racers with knowledge of rc cars, in this instance Ellis Stafford is an asset to the brand... who can help push the development forward must be a good thing.

Any parts developed for this car to improve it will be welcome, who ever thinks of it or designs it..and to share said mods on the forum to fellow Kyosho drivers is surely a good thing??

I knocked up the steering mod out of a piece of 2mm c/f and it certainly does improve the car! :thumbsup:

Nick

Fabs

27-01-2011, 07:44 AM

Funny,

I went to opposite way with the steering on my own car and found it made the car a lot more consistent, especially on high grip... I guess it's a matter of tastes ;)

Oliv996

27-01-2011, 08:05 AM

Whatever the personal mod you made on your car, your mind always self convinces it's better with it :D

Fabs

27-01-2011, 09:04 AM

I got the result on the weekend that I made the mod to back it up, how's that for convincing?

jimmy

27-01-2011, 09:21 AM

You and Ellis should go head to head then to see which steering mod wins! :p

Fabs

27-01-2011, 09:24 AM

njc11

27-01-2011, 09:29 AM

LOL

I think if we were to race each other we all know who'd be the winner regardless of cars, let alone steering mod. Besides I didn't change the steering, I only changed the ackermann setup to something that isn't available normally.

You run Tamiya now though so how can you compare! lol!! :p

It wont be long before your back to the FS2 pal! :thumbsup:

Fabs

27-01-2011, 09:47 AM

When they make it a belt drive then I may switch back :lol:

RudeTony

27-01-2011, 11:50 AM

Dear oh dear!!

There are a few things you all need to realise!
Ellis is a world class driver and if he wants something from a car then he will modify the car to gain what he desires to suit his driving needs.
Now that does not mean that it will suit me, you and everyone else.
In fact it could make things worse for you.
A few of you questioned his shock set up at the Petit and that shocked me when the car was 4th on the grid of a very high international field.
The same set up won the week after at the BRCA winter event.
Why do you all question so much one minute and then claim it's his, hers mine etc invention when a top racer does something.

Take a word of advice lads - not every set up is good for everyone but also don't knock it unless you tried it.
Ellis can help a lot of you and already has, so just be greatful for the help and advice. - (that just cost you a breakfast Ellis)

Darren!! You are so funny! - get on with it dude and send me one

Neil Skull

27-01-2011, 12:13 PM

Let me know more about the Ellis FS2 Parts Darren, as i am willing to try them :)
But can you promise they will make me as fast as Ellis?.

Darren Boyle

27-01-2011, 12:50 PM

:lol: oh dear...:thumbdown:

I think you'll find people are trying to make an already good car much better... i dont think it is a question of people trying to cash in or copy..

Any experienced top class racers with knowledge of rc cars, in this instance Ellis Stafford is an asset to the brand... who can help push the development forward must be a good thing.

Any parts developed for this car to improve it will be welcome, who ever thinks of it or designs it..and to share said mods on the forum to fellow Kyosho drivers is surely a good thing??

I knocked up the steering mod out of a piece of 2mm c/f and it certainly does improve the car! :thumbsup:

Nick

Hi Nick,

All I was saying it is easy for someone to pick Ellis's car up at the Petit, look at the ackerman mod and state "I drew that up ages ago, but have never had time to make it". This is a bit of a standing joke amongst those who were there and have since been told about it. Now maybe the truth is, they have seen it, like it and will now go away and make it, but to claim they came up with it "months ago" is a nonsense!!

All the parts Ellis comes up with, if he thinks they have potential to drastically improve or better a car (any car he has run, not just X-Factory ones) he will bring them to market in is own E-Speed range. To have other people look at the part then say "oh, I can make that" is not too far short of a rip-off IMHO.

Ellis's pats are already in production and final prototypes are due to be delivered either later today or tommorow. I hope, as much as anyone, that Ellis's time and the rest of the X-Factory guys who are also running the FS2, will not only serve us well whilst we have no 4wd to run of our own, but will also prove beneficial to all other FS2 owners and racers with any ideas or set up tips that arise as result of us all running the car too.

Certainly, NOT looking to upset any of the "Kyosho followers", FAR FAR from it, in fact I know many of the Kyosho lads very well and go back a long way with some of them and it will be nice to work "with" them this season in 4wd. My point was, this part is coming to market and will be available direct from Ellis soon as opposed to from soemone who has "pinched" the idea after seeing it on his car......

@Tony, your words aslo sum it up very well mate, I will give you a shout when they are here

@Neil, likewise mate, when they are here give me a shout and we will sort some out for guys at the office too... ;-)

kek23k

27-01-2011, 01:21 PM

Kinda reminds me of the days when I used to race the ZXR, I'd see what some of the big boys had modded then try and knock up the same mod myself. But as soon as a mod made it to production (Teamline etc) then I'd want the 'official' version cos I'm a brand whore (and because my skills at fabbing were always a bit weak!). One of my favourite aspects of rc is the modding, whether it makes it better or worse, I just enjoyed the extreme tuning hehe :D

kek23k

27-01-2011, 01:31 PM

Hi Nick,

All the parts Ellis comes up with, if he thinks they have potential to drastically improve or better a car (any car he has run, not just X-Factory ones) he will bring them to market in is own E-Speed range.

This is excellent news and I'm sure I'm not alone in not realising this :D

Highjumper

27-01-2011, 01:40 PM

Hello, we in Germany have there a Man,who make this Parst completly from STEEL! i Try an other Steering Plate since the Race in Bilbao EM 2009.

I send you later a Picture!

You can use 3 Holes und you can change the high.

Greets Kim

njc11

27-01-2011, 02:37 PM

Hi Nick,

All I was saying it is easy for someone to pick Ellis's car up at the Petit, look at the ackerman mod and state "I drew that up ages ago, but have never had time to make it". This is a bit of a standing joke amongst those who were there and have since been told about it. Now maybe the truth is, they have seen it, like it and will now go away and make it, but to claim they came up with it "months ago" is a nonsense!!

All the parts Ellis comes up with, if he thinks they have potential to drastically improve or better a car (any car he has run, not just X-Factory ones) he will bring them to market in is own E-Speed range. To have other people look at the part then say "oh, I can make that" is not too far short of a rip-off IMHO.

Ellis's pats are already in production and final prototypes are due to be delivered either later today or tommorow. I hope, as much as anyone, that Ellis's time and the rest of the X-Factory guys who are also running the FS2, will not only serve us well whilst we have no 4wd to run of our own, but will also prove beneficial to all other FS2 owners and racers with any ideas or set up tips that arise as result of us all running the car too.

Certainly, NOT looking to upset any of the "Kyosho followers", FAR FAR from it, in fact I know many of the Kyosho lads very well and go back a long way with some of them and it will be nice to work "with" them this season in 4wd. My point was, this part is coming to market and will be available direct from Ellis soon as opposed to from soemone who has "pinched" the idea after seeing it on his car......

@Tony, your words aslo sum it up very well mate, I will give you a shout when they are here

@Neil, likewise mate, when they are here give me a shout and we will sort some out for guys at the office too... ;-)

Wow!! what was that first paragraph about?!?!? you best explain?? lol!

All i said was people are trying to make an already good car better... and if people try stuff and feel it works / benefits there driving style then why not share there experiences? I for one would?

If it just so happens that a top driver trys something then puts pen to paper and gets a proper nicely made piece to replace your home made piece, then again i would buy it as it will look the dogs and do the job!

Just to let you know i reckon ive been running the FS2 now for nearly 2 years... It started life as an SP with the FS upgrade kit i then bought the bits required ages ago to convert to FS2 spec which is essentially the wider rear bones, shafts with short axles... Most of this info can be found on the american Kyosho forum.. i have a shop drive with JE Spares through Neil at Kyosho.. so would hardley call myself a " Kyosho Follower " i would say i was part of a team, and as i know the cars very well im happy to help anyone..

Kyosho is top notch, quality gear... and i think people are slowly realising they will be a force to be reckoned with this year at the Nationals...

I will look forward to any more parts Ellis brings out for the FS which i will no doubt buy and try :thumbsup: Keep up the good work Ellis! If Ellis or DMS can post on here when all new parts being made are in stock that would be great!

Cheers

Nick
:)

Darren Boyle

27-01-2011, 03:03 PM

Wow!! what was that first paragraph about?!?!? you best explain?? lol!

Cheers

Nick
:)

Nick PM sent ;)

werner1619

27-01-2011, 05:43 PM

Hello,

On the subject of steering. Has anyone noticed that a F1 car has ackerman but in reverse to our rc cars. The outside wheel turns in more than what the inner wheel turns.
Reasoning is that it scrubs off less speed through corners...

Less scrub will be good for anyones laptimes! :-)

Kinda makes sense, the outer wheel has more weight on it so, should turn beter?

What ya think?

werner1619

27-01-2011, 05:44 PM

Fabs

27-01-2011, 06:37 PM

It doesn't work that way all the time. Do you want me to explain why the F1 has negative ackermann, and why it won't work on our cars? You might end up with a headache :lol:

RogerM

28-01-2011, 01:27 PM

Darren I don't want to start any wars here as to be absolutely honest I'm not that fussed BUT if I did want to I could probably create a little trouble as your comment is more than just rude, especially as you made no effort to determine the facts before making it.
I'm sure you know what I mean so I won't spell it out, let’s try to keep this friendly. After all we are just a bunch of grown men united by the enjoyment we get from racing model cars with each other!

I do however have a CAD drawing which was mailed to 2 separate suppliers of flat material pieces, one specialises in carbon and one that specialises in laser / water jet cut metal components before the end of November (file dated 17/11/2010 on my server). This was redrawn the week before Petit to add an additional set of holes that I thought some people might like but whilst talking to Tony at Petit I was convinced not to bother. I trust Tony's judgement on such things.

The reasons why the parts haven't been produced is a simple one, I had to concentrate on getting the Scorpion parts out to those customers who had already confirmed orders and following that a period of ill health and hectic daily working life meant it just wasn't the priority, along with the other components I have in the pipeline.

Now that piece wasn't identical to what Ellis has done, his mod was in the form of 2 little "ears" fitted to the rack and my concept was actually a single piece which replaced the rack bridge and also corrected the minor bump steer that exists once the mod is in place. There was an extra little detail in there too which I intend to share with Ellis the next time I get chance to.

As you know Darren I have always worked on modifications to improve my cars, I remember you picking up my Pred P8 when I raced regularly at your club when living in Watford and commenting on some of my mods (was my P8 the first Pred to run a carbon drag link instead of a bent bit of wire and modified steering arms to give ackerman angles more suited to tight tracks???? who cares, I don't!)

I will admit that I did spend plenty of time looking at Ellis' car and talking with him, after all he is a world class driver, a very capable engineer but first and foremost a really nice, friendly and helpful gentleman whom it is a pleasure to converse with.
I intend to carry on doing so, hopefully this thread won't get in the way of that.

Now if you are going to be producing parts which improve the car to Ellis' designs then good on you and I wish you well when selling them, honestly I do.
I am very pleased to see the cars being supported and whilst your business is model car parts, something you do very well as many customers will testify to, mine is state of the art diesel fuel systems design with tolerances sub micron for one of the largest automotive suppliers in the world.
That is why I am a little saddened and disappointed in the tone of your post above, I see no reason for it to be as abusive as it reads; it’s not as if either of us will be affecting each others livelihood.

Those who know what I have been doing recently as far as RC design is concerned will know that I am actually not making anything on any of the items I have designed, just covering the costs. Happy to share the figures.

That said I am happy to design and supply parts to my fellow RC enthusiasts if they don't already exist ... but I won't be depending on it to pay my mortgage.

As Nick said, we all are just trying to improve what is already a great car.

Right now that is cleared up I hope we can all move on and enjoy our awesome Kyosho cars.

RogerM

28-01-2011, 01:31 PM

Double post .... keep smiling everybody :D

RogerM

28-01-2011, 01:37 PM

It doesn't work that way all the time. Do you want me to explain why the F1 has negative ackermann, and why it won't work on our cars? You might end up with a headache :lol:

Oh go on mate, like watching steam come from peoples ears:thumbsup:

RudeTony

28-01-2011, 03:31 PM

Gentlemen!!!
There is no need for all this.
If Roger drew a similar part before Ellis actually made it then so what.
Who cares?!
The fact of the matter is Roger did say this on the spot when Ellis made it so even if there is doubt he should be given the benefit of doubt.
There is no gain from Roger - he even asked me to produce it and i told him it wasn't worth it.
The fact is Ellis tried it, it obviously works, Darren is going to make it and we will all buy it.
Roger doen't care either way - if he does then he has to learn to make the idea and not just put it on the shelf.
May I suggest an end Gents otherwise i can see Roger getting proof of sending drawings to suppliers etc tc and it's going to go on and on.
Anyways, I am the only one allowed to disagree with Darren - how dare you al get invlolved.
When is the part available mr DMS??

PS - to the other post about what Tebo is running - well all I can say is 'RudeBits' - he he he LOL

carlin

28-01-2011, 03:45 PM

RogerM

28-01-2011, 03:55 PM

:thumbsup: @ (not so Rude) Tony ... you know me mate, just want to be on track and enjoying a laugh with you guys .... and yes I know, I STILL owe you a burger :p

Fabs

28-01-2011, 04:35 PM

Oh go on mate, like watching steam come from peoples ears:thumbsup:

LOL I'll be the one with a headache if I tried to explain it, so I'll just put a link to an article I read not so long ago...

http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/ackerman.html

DaveG28

28-01-2011, 04:40 PM

One thing I am confused on, doesn't the Ellis mod increase Ackerman? I always thought Ackerman reduced outer lock, but I know the mod increases it, what am I missing!?

Darren will do his nut, not only do I want to copy, but not even for a Kyosho!

Fabs

28-01-2011, 04:54 PM

If you read the article you'll find out that:

0 ackermann is the wheels stay parallel.
Pro-Ackermann is what we have, inner wheel turning more than outer wheel (toeing out). The more pro-ackermann the bigger the difference.
Anti-ackermann is the opposite, used on cars like nascar, F1 where DRAG is more important.

Anyway if the mod makes the outer wheel turn more, it decreases the ackermann. Which is why I said I went the opposite direction as I increased the ackermann on my FS.

gazhillAE

28-01-2011, 06:11 PM

When they make it a belt drive then I may switch back :lol:

Try a cat sx2 :p

Fabs

28-01-2011, 06:39 PM

Err no, I'll stick with the tam thanks :D

Highjumper

29-01-2011, 02:47 PM

Sooo, here are our Pictures from our new Steering!

Greets Kim

When someone wants 1 Steering Brace! Write me an PM! i give you the Mail Adress from the Man who make this Things!

RogerM

31-01-2011, 09:17 AM

Nice solution there Highjumper, in a lot of ways better than the bridge based mods most are doing. Is that a pressed / stamped piece? What put me off that style of plate was that the ball studs need to screw into a surface lower than the top face teh bearing would sit on ... a stamped part would sort that out nicely!

The only downside I can see is that you can not make fine adjustments to ackerman but since most people don't make subtle changes in that area I'm sure it would be fine for most.

Good work.

mattb

01-02-2011, 06:50 PM

how long of release are the new e-speed bits for the lazer?? thanks matt

SimonW

01-02-2011, 09:24 PM

Am i seeing things or is the motor and servo in the pics above on the wrong side ? and also is that a 1 way I see going into the front gearbox ? Would like to see the whole car in a pic.

hloland

01-02-2011, 09:45 PM

It looks like Dudango a diff...

Highjumper

02-02-2011, 08:55 AM

Yes, Good Eys .

The Motor is on the other Side, Right! Because i Think that the Car ist easier to drive,because the Rotation of the Motor/ Magnet ist going INTO the CAR. i personal think it feels better! And Yes, the Car have Durango Diffs in the Front and the REAR. I am testing this. We will see.

The complete Picture from my Car do you get at the Weekend, when i have my new Orion Speedo´s and Motors!

Or every One can see the Car at the EIR 2011 in Belgium.

Greets Kim

Neil Skull

02-02-2011, 09:33 AM

Roger,

It looks like BMS that has been machined.

RogerM

02-02-2011, 10:40 AM

Now I get to see it on a big screen rather than a phone I can see ... on the phone it looked like a pressing.

Highjumper

02-02-2011, 12:13 PM

The Durango Diffs fit in without problems! You need only a little more shims! on the Right and left side! And the STEEL Part, which you fit in the Main Shaft.

On Astro Turf i gote sometimes Problems with the Plastik Parts, but there was the Slipper completly closed!

Greets Kim

njc11

08-02-2011, 11:06 AM

This has just turned up.. :)

Quality is superb... i'll get some measurements up when ive done them..

Width.. hole center are ??mm width.. ?mm between stud centers going forward.

I havent a kit part to measure to see how it compares..

email this chap...

[email protected]

http://www.cls.eclipse.co.uk/RCCars/20110208_004a.jpg

RogerM

08-02-2011, 12:19 PM

That is nice, looks well made. So long as the bearing fit is good (which I have no doubt it will be) then I think he is on to a winner here.

Nick, I am not sure he would appreciate you putting the measurements up on line for the "copy cats" to use so can I ask you to ask his permision before you do.

njc11

08-02-2011, 12:33 PM

Highjumper

08-02-2011, 08:31 PM

Yes, Markus and i Made this Thing for my Car! And this is not the first one!! So Please keep it in Secrets! If someone will have one, they can Write him!

I Think the Price is more than Fair.

Greets from Germany!

Kim

kyoshogit

08-02-2011, 11:05 PM

Posted to the UK.......£35 :wtf:

Neil Skull

09-02-2011, 01:43 PM

That is a super price.
Let me know how that works Nic as i might be needing one :-)

Darren Boyle

18-02-2011, 04:14 PM

For those of you who have all been asking, the Ellis Ackerman Steering Mod is now available from stock..........

See here for more info..
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=465398#post465398