FS2/Big bore setups

[/tobys]

Well guys, considering getting a FS2...

Can you post some setups you've had good experience with when running the Big Bore shocks? For both Indoors and Outdoors...

As the springs are so expensive, I need to refine the potential purchase!

If there are any other key hop-ups, please list those too.

Finally, what's the disadvantage of running a regular size servo, other than the link is at a bizarre angle?

Cheers y'all :thumbsup:

[carlin]

Hi Mate,

Kit piston's usually run from 50wt to 25wt front & rear.

I'm currently running 50/45wt front & 40/35wt rear indoor low grip like Worksop.

As for springs i would get all if you can, but wont go wrong with Yellow front, rear's Yellow, Red, gold & white thats all i have used out of the selection so far just for indoors.
As for outdoors you may change totally so softer front springs maybe?

Sorry if not much help.

As for servo, you cant adjust your slipper very well & i find that you dont get the best out of your steering. Also doesnt help the life of your servo i think anyways.

[shark]

Servo wise, ive got a normal size one and spaced the ball away from the horn to keep the trackrod straight, seems ok to me Toby.

[/tobys]

Sounds like a good idea Ian. Have you run yours yet?

[shark]

Sounds like a good idea Ian. Have you run yours yet?Only a quick test on the patio as yet :). Very nice car though !!

[/tobys]

Only a quick test on the patio as yet :). Very nice car though !!

Are you running it this weekend and have you got Big bores or the standard shocks?

[shark]

Not got the big bores Toby, going to wait and see how it goes mate. The standard shocks are very nice any way.
Might try and have a blast at Broxtowe tonight .

[/tobys]

Let me know how it goes!
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[/tobys]

Any setups from the Mid-South Kyosho boys?

Or Big E?

Thanks.

[Big E]

I don't have any big bores!

E

[njc11]

I don't have any big bores!

E

You must try them!! ;)

[Big E]

I'm good without thanks..especially with the price of them :o

[njc11]

I'm good without thanks..especially with the price of them :o

You'll be even better with them...:p stotfold National etc..

Im sure Darren would do you a good deal?!?! Ry or Stu at JE also..??

They are good inside, but will come into there own once outdoor gets going.. :thumbsup:

[/tobys]

I'm good without thanks..especially with the price of them :o

Do you have an outdoor setup for the regular shocks?

Cheers E :thumbsup:

[spenner]

I don't run them either....

[Neil Skull]

only for the wealthy guys :)

[njc11]

I don't run them either....

Thats because you aint tried them! lol! :p

Everyone who i know who has run them...with the exception of Roger like them.. Colin May went back to standard shocks and said it felt more alive.. but a few set up changes later hes back with the big bores and we both cant wait to test them outdoors as they will be very good!!

:thumbsup:

Neil not at all... in my eyes they make the car alot better.. much more forgiving, easy to drive.. and no sacrificeon laptimes as Roger has said.. People who are already quick, add the big bores and once set up they WILL be quicker.. my opinion i know... People who have drives with Kyosho in the UK will get a good deal on them im sure :thumbsup: if they dont like they can sell them... but that wont happen!!

Look at Tebo at the Reedy race... his cars both running big bores looked super dialled and was unlucky he didnt get the win as he was easily one of the quickest, if not the quickest!

If the shocks didnt help he would have gone back to standard velvets??

:thumbsup:

[spenner]

If it isn't broke don't fix it.....

[njc11]

lol!

You got my spares Mr! :p

[spenner]

I will do, for when i see you at Stotfold...... How's that Vega ????

[njc11]

I will do, for when i see you at Stotfold...... How's that Vega ????

No probs pal :thumbsup:

[kyoshogit]

If the shocks didnt help he would have gone back to standard velvets??


Maybe he would've, but that isn't what Kyosho would want.....:eh?:

At the retail price (especially springs :wtf:) they have got to be an absolute "must" to be worth it.
They would be an easier sell if the shocks they're replacing were crap.... but everybody raves about the velvets.

[Neil Skull]

Nic,

I do like the big bores:D

I just think you need deep pockets.

Outdoors will be the biggest benifit i have no doubt. Shin told me they tested on a lot of tracks and was faster everytime with the big bores.

But you dont have to have big bores to go quick ;)

[njc11]

Maybe he would've, but that isn't what Kyosho would want.....:eh?:

At the retail price (especially springs :wtf:) they have got to be an absolute "must" to be worth it.
They would be an easier sell if the shocks they're replacing were crap.... but everybody raves about the velvets.

Yes and they are good... kit shocks are one of the best out there..

You need to test drive a car with them on to appreciate what im on about :thumbsup:

As for Tebo.. he obviously went for what makes him quicker..?? I dont think it would be a question of Kyosho made him..?? Tebo is always looking for the win...

Neil.. very true! :thumbsup: are you at the next Ardent??

:thumbsup:

[Neil Skull]

Not racing at Ardent!!

I dont race much as you know.

doing carpet offroad wars at Maratime.
Then i think Kyosho cup at Silverstone.
Nothing planned after that.

BTW anyone seen the new Bulldog body for RB5 from Proline??
I want one:thumbsup:

[njc11]

Nope... you got a pic?

[carlin]

Hi Guys,

I fully agree with Nick on this as I have now been running Kyosho ZX5 FS/FS2 for well over year.

On the FS2 i was getting quicker everytime i ran the car learning setups etc.
Then one weekend at Chadderton i ran the standard velvet shocks for two runs the car was dialled was so impressed with the car.
So for the other rounds i ran the big bores same setup as Nick C car i was even faster i could push the car so much more but was so easy to drive though.

Everytime i have ran the car with Big Bores not once i have thought of going back to the Velvet's they are nicely packed away incase i ever do need them but i doubt it though.

As for another set will hopefully have some for the RB5 as i think this is must for when the outdoor season starts

I'm enjoying this electric racing so much, I thinking of doing it more bit more than the 1/8th IC this year too.

I know you guys complain about the prices but are worth every pennie tbh.
I myself aint sponsored in anyway at all not even any discount, find myself hunting the net for best prices though ;)

But it's your choice end of the day, i say the kit shocks are fantastic but the Big Bores have converted me get massive thumbs up from me :thumbsup:

[carlin]

Nope... you got a pic?

Sweet i like it

[/tobys]

OK, so any setups from the non-Big Bore guys? Astro or Grass please!
:)

[carlin]

OK, so any setups from the non-Big Bore guys? Astro or Grass please!
:)

Check this out -

http://www.petitrc.com/reglages/SetupSheetDataBase.htm

[RogerM]

Toby,

I'm not sure how many people have actually run them outdoors (grass/astro/multisurface) as yet, I personally don't know of anybody else who has (that doesn't mean there aren't though).

It will be like everything to do with this sport, a matter of personal tastes! I will get them to work for me, not putting them in the bin at that price LOL. Seriously though I like, no need, a fairly stiff/packy damping setup on the front end of a 4wd buggy ... running thicker oils might give the stiffer damping but doesn't bring the pack I need.

I run a one-way in my car which might also be a factor to consider with shock set up. I've tried permenant 4wd and just can not drive it, finally gave up after about 6 months of "forcing" myself to run a diff even though I wasn't ever happy with it.

[RudeTony]

OK, so any setups from the non-Big Bore guys? Astro or Grass please!
:)

I run my FS2 last weekend at Eden Park in dry conditions and I thought it was struggling a little over the bumpy sections.
I changed the shocks to Big Bores and the car was transformed.
Bumps? What bumps? It was that much different.
I will now use the big bores anywhere there is bumpy sections.
The weather was ultra cold so bare this in mind when you see the oils used.
30w (Losi oil) front
22.5w (Losi oil) rear
Hope this helps you a little

[/tobys]

thanks Tony :thumbsup:

what springs and shock positions did you use? and did you use roll bars?

[mattb]

I run my FS2 last weekend at Eden Park in dry conditions and I thought it was struggling a little over the bumpy sections.
I changed the shocks to Big Bores and the car was transformed.
Bumps? What bumps? It was that much different.
I will now use the big bores anywhere there is bumpy sections.
The weather was ultra cold so bare this in mind when you see the oils used.
30w (Losi oil) front
22.5w (Losi oil) rear
Hope this helps you a littlewhat springs did you have on tony?

[RudeTony]

Please remember that it was very very cold so normal conditions would for sure change the oil damping but not much else

Front - 30w Losi oil - standard piston - Yellow spring.
Middle hole on wishbone and shock tower


Rear - 22.5w Losi oil - standard piston - Gold spring
Inner hole on wishbone and outer hole on tower


22mm right height all round

Low down force rear wing ala Ellis (executor) and Kev Moore (advisor) - I need new decals now! LOL

Short rear link - Long front link
Long wheelbase after getting told off by Ellis - LOL

[njc11]

I run my FS2 last weekend at Eden Park in dry conditions and I thought it was struggling a little over the bumpy sections.
I changed the shocks to Big Bores and the car was transformed.
Bumps? What bumps? It was that much different.
I will now use the big bores anywhere there is bumpy sections.
The weather was ultra cold so bare this in mind when you see the oils used.
30w (Losi oil) front
22.5w (Losi oil) rear
Hope this helps you a little

Glad to see your using them and appreciating them pal! Awesome shocks!

:thumbsup:

[mattb]

Please remember that it was very very cold so normal conditions would for sure change the oil damping but not much else

Front - 30w Losi oil - standard piston - Yellow spring.
Middle hole on wishbone and shock tower


Rear - 22.5w Losi oil - standard piston - Gold spring
Inner hole on wishbone and outer hole on tower


22mm right height all round

Low down force rear wing ala Ellis (executor) and Kev Moore (advisor) - I need new decals now! LOL

Short rear link - Long front link
Long wheelbase after getting told off by Ellis - LOL

thanks mate,i was thinking of starting of with very similar just 35w front oil but still the 22.5w rear i use losi oil to.

[RudeTony]

Lads, I used the same set up at Stotfold yesterday and the car is real good - A couple of minor changes with the help of John Spencer so getting close to a real good starting point for these shocks.

[Darren Boyle]

Lads, I used the same set up at Stotfold yesterday and the car is real good - A couple of minor changes with the help of John Spencer so getting close to a real good starting point for these shocks. Stotfold? I thought you said you were going to TORCH on saturday?

[/tobys]

Keep the updates coming!

Would also be interested in knowing what effect the Big bores are having on your laptimes (i.e. are they making you lap faster, more consistently or both).

Are you running the Vega link and if so, which holes?

I ran mine yesterday (indoors) and thought the car was ace!

[RudeTony]

Stotfold? I thought you said you were going to TORCH on saturday?


Ah ha!!!??
I couldn't sleep on Saturday night with the thought of you beating me at the first regional in a few weeks (get booked in everyone) so I decided some time there was the right thing to do - LOL

[RudeTony]

Keep the updates coming!

Would also be interested in knowing what effect the Big bores are having on your laptimes (i.e. are they making you lap faster, more consistently or both).
Are you running the Vega link and if so, which holes?
I ran mine yesterday (indoors) and thought the car was ace!

Hi yah Toby, did you get the weights?
Yes I was using the Vega steering on the forward hole.
If you are running the Ellis version I would add a 1mm washer as Ellis made his adjustable rather than Vega made it simpler to go back to standard. Both excellent so not sure which one you have.
The car is for sure faster over bumpy sections. Just easier to drive for me.

[Bagman]

Good info. Just a quick question, as I don't know any of the UK tracks, is Stotfold smooth or bumpy?

[/tobys]

Hey Tony - Weights arrived as promised :thumbsup: Ta muchly!!

Didn't use them this weekend as the car was nice although expect to in the coming weeks as I run more outdoors...

Have you changed the amount of weight you use since going to the Big bores?

[RogerM]

Ran mine at Kidderminster yesterday and was very pleased with her, will post up a setup when I can get to a decent PC and have a spare few minutes.
Basically though;

front

longest link , no washers either end
shocks middle wishbone, inside on tower
Gold front springs / 35wt AE oil with stock 5x1.2 pistons (I was actually running 30wt oil and 5x1.1 pistons so the 35wt/1.2 is an approximation)
2 pip spacer between trans case and LAW31 / 10deg castor blocks
Steering mod (4mm forward and 7mm out from stock position)
shafts just under level (front of chassis 2mm lower than rear)
ONE-WAY DIFF

Front tower spaced up 1mm & front shocks 1mm longer than normal (now 20mm) as this improves the car when landing with lock on.

Rear

link 2nd from outer on ali 0deg hubs (out on original FS hubs) / 2mm spacer
link outer on bulkhead / 1mm spacer
shocks in on wishbone / mid on tower
white springs with 25wt AE oil with stock 5x1.2 pistons
long wheelbase
Antisquat = 1 pip under LAW36 / 2 pip under LAW37 = 0.75deg & hinge pin up by 0.5mm
LAW36 B in
LAW37 F out
FS2 arms and shafts
shafts level
1.0mm anti roll bar with balls right at end of bar
60g of weight in the spine, cells forward
5.5 motor geared 21/78 with 4600/35C cells


The car was excellent everywhere, not saying there wasn't room for improvement (I'd start by replacing my wheel nuts more often but that is another story :cry:)
I ran a 4th & 7th (with an error sadly) in round with the likes of Mossy and Niggs there so pleased with that. One of the guys who drove my car will have his new purchase built for next weekend so it must have impressed.

This will be where I start as a base on astro and grass. I have found in the past that you can swap between the one-way and the diff without any setup changes as the car is so neutral, use whichever you prefer.


I still don't see the big bores as a "MUST HAVE" so they shouldn't put off those who want a Lazer but can't afford / justify the cost of the big bores and springs but I DO think that they make the car a little easier to be consistent with.

Still the biggest improvement for me personally is refitting the one-way diff but that is most likely to do with my driving style and may not suit everybody (I really wish I could drive with permanent 4wd but I just can't).

[RudeTony]

Good info. Just a quick question, as I don't know any of the UK tracks, is Stotfold smooth or bumpy?

Stotfold is bumpy in places



Hey Tony - Weights arrived as promised :thumbsup: Ta muchly!!
Didn't use them this weekend as the car was nice although expect to in the coming weeks as I run more outdoors...
Have you changed the amount of weight you use since going to the Big bores?
You dont really need weight indoors.....I tried to run the car without at the weekend. John Spencer told me to try with it as he runs weight and it was for sure better. Nothing to do with the big bores though

[spenner]

Have to say, Tony was pretty quick yesterday!!!

Glad the changes we made improved his laptimes, good to work with people like Tony..... And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks :woot:

He even listened to which lines to take!!!!
Tony, get booked for 4wd also this weekend so we can do a back to back test.....

[Al3xis007]

Im with spenner, no big bores

[Paul Field]

Hi Does anybody know if Losi 22 springs fit the kyosho big bores. I have also seen Yokomo big bores on some set ups where can i buy these.

Cheers in advance:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

The Losi springs do fit ... I am in the process of compliling a list of the TRUE spring rates of all the big bore springs available. Bare with me there are some major suprises (like the Losi spring rates being NOTHING like what they say on the packs and Kyosho / Xgear springs being quite different ranges to the old springs for the standard shocks).

One thing is for certain, all the lists out there on the net are full of large errors ... I'm comparing the springs on a £50k spring test unit so am 100% confident of my results.

[Paul Field]

Thanks Roger much appreciated:drool:

[RogerM]

Should have also pointed out that the X gear springs are excellent in terms of spring to spring consistency too

[Gayo]

I am in the process of compliling a list of the TRUE spring rates of all the big bore springs available.
:thumbsup:
Kudos coach :lol:

[/tobys]

OK guys it's been a few months and more than a few outings for the FS2 for most of us :lol:

Any updates to your setups, from both Std and Big Bore shock drivers?

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[njc11]

Have a look on Petit RC.. :thumbsup:

Ive sent Arno another one..

[RogerM]

I've got to post mine up by have no way to do it on one of the snazzy PDF files that Nick uses ... only real PC is my work one these days.

I've probably run the FS2 4 times since your last post Toby and no matter what I do I always end up back at the same place now +/-1mm under the inner ball studs and in/out 1 hole on the shock towers.
That is what I was hoping for and where I have been on the other Kyosho cars.

The FS2 is a great car to drive, loving it.

I will post, if somebody wants to create a sheet from it and post it up again / send it to Petit I'd be greatful.

[/tobys]

Yes, me too - really happy with mine.

Q'd 8th at out last 4wd regional (Mid East) which I was very pleased with as we do have some very quick drivers - and it could have been better too (got a 5th and 8th in rounds 3 and 2 respectively) with a bit more luck in the final round...

If I can ask a specific question to the Big Bore drivers; what springs are you running both Front and Rear?

Roger - I know you said you were comparing the Losi spring with Kyosho; have you made any more progress with this?

Nick - Just checked on PetitRC but it's not up there yet (will keep an eye out though)

[njc11]

I sent the sheet to Arnaud this morning... so hopefully up later on :thumbsup:

Springs.. up front Yokomo Green.. rears either White or Gold.. where are you with yours? Sounds like your going well with it!

Roger.. send me info and and i'll put onto a sheet for you!

:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Nick, I will send it through later mate to your normal e-mail ... thanks :)

Toby, I virtually always run Losi Green fronts and Losi Pink rears now. I started with Gold and white X-gear springs but felt the car was too soft .... moved the to Losi Orange and Yellows as they were near enough identical to the X-gear gold/white combination then worked my way up from there till I got the balance of intial, later corner and bump handling I was looking for.
If using the standard pistons I would recomend 35wt front and 22.5wt rear ... both Nick and I are experimenting with other pistons at the moment ... I think I can say that we both keep going back to the standard pistons on the front BUT are tending towards a larger hole in the rear (5x1.4 for Nick IIRC ... I'm currently trying 6x1.25 as that is the equivelent of the new piston from Kyosho. This is slightly less flow area than the 5x1.4s Nick is currently using and seems to be a reasonable compromise for me ATM).

I am hoping to get a range of pistons with 4 & 6 holes in as for a given flow area the number of holes affects the way it "packs" ... less holes will give a more reactive car, more will give a more forgiving car. I'm thinking 4 holes indoors, 6 holes at tracks like the surface of the moon (Hinkley for example) and 5 hole as the "general" everywhere compromise.

Again I will keep everybody up to date with my findings as and when I actually get them done.

[Highjumper]

Hello, is the List from the Sping Rates ready?? i am serching for the Losi Springs! ( BigBore)

Greets Kim

[RogerM]

I am getting more springs to measure this weekend ... I only have access to a limited range as nobody close to me runs a car with big bores on that I can borrow.

More info next week.

[SimonW]

I have to run at least 30wt oil in the back of my car with the standard pistons and yellow springs, how are you guys getting down to 22.5wt and not bottoming all the time ?

[/tobys]

What kind of shock length are you BB guys running?

I've got some new toys now(!) and they are built as per instructions (with the shorter top eyelet) but when the fronts are mounted on the car in my (currently) preferred outer wishbone location, I seem to have hardly any droop at all! Plenty of droop on the rear.

Must say though, they are lovely shocks :wub

[RogerM]

I must say that I've never even tried the big bores in the outer wishbone hole. Part of the reason I am running Losi springs is to get me into the rate range where I can run in the middle hole.

I must however admit, as I've said to a few before, that I am keen to try them with the longer 46mm shafts in the outer hole to get more front shock inclination. The main reason I've not done that already is that we would then need even less piston hole area than we have now to keep the small bump compression damping in a similar ball park to what we are using!

Simon, if I put 30wt oil in my big bores with the standard 5 hole pistons on the back of the FS I'd have time to go and make a cup of tea before the shock rebounded!!!
As far as I can tell, with the exception of yourself, everybody I have spoken to about the big bores wants more piston hole area in the rear shocks to allow them to get use the 27.5-30wt oil range and still have acceptable rebound speeds.
Have a quick measure of your pistons, they should be 11.88mm diameter, my guess is that yours are significantly undersize for some reason!

[/tobys]

Roger, are you running the std Kyosho pistons that you have drilled yourself or something else (home brew for example)?

You also mentioned that you were building a chart to list the various spring rates - do you have anything you can share with us yet? I'm keen to see how the Losi springs compare to the Kyosho Xgear ones (if at all).

[Gayo]

Here is the chart I use, I made it from various sources I found online so it may not be utterly accurate though.

Rear :
K Pink 2.04
K White 2.10
K Gold 2.14
K Red 2.23
K Yellow 2.31
TL Red 2.60

Front :
K Pink 3.08
K White 3.22
K Gold 3.34
K Red 3.53
K Yellow 3.60
TL Blue 3.80
TL Black 4.10
Y Green 4.50
Y Orange 5.25
Y Black 5.40

K : Kyosho BB springs, TL : Team Losi BB springs, Y : Yokomo BB springs

[RogerM]

Yes, been drilling the standard pistons.

There was an issue with machine calibration on the spring chart so need to round up all the springs again and repeat. Sadly time is not my friend at the moment either.

I can tell you the Losi springs are NOTHING LIKE the rates on the packets but consistent. The X-gear springs are very consistent but it appears ALL the fronts are too soft for UK style tracks (obviously my opinion).

[/tobys]

The Yokomo springs look quite stiff in comparison then...I see that some folks are running the Yokomo Green which is described by Yokomo as Super Soft yet the chart suggests it is stiffer than the Kyosho and Losi springs...

[Gayo]

Yes it sounds weird, but the Yokomo springs are really harder, you can feel it in your hands, they are waaay harder!
For now I only have the Kyosho BB springs and the Yokomo blacks and I feel a huge gap between these. I am waiting for the Losi and Yokomo green and orange so I can test them.

[RogerM]

Something to do with the Bmax4 weighing more than a house???? ;)

I would suggest trying Losi green / blue on the front of the FS, X-gear red or Losi pink rear :)

Not the LT springs are a fair bit harder than it says on the packet or Gayo's table .... I'm still working on this BUT I have so little free time ... I bet I don't get to race off-road again till October :o

[/tobys]

Roger, do you have the p/n of the longer BB front shock shaft?

I ran mine out with kit pistons (35 Front/25 Rear Losi oil) with Losi Black/Pink springs and it wasn't bad - although felt like too much pack on the rear as it was quite jittery over smaller bumps.

Any idea which Losi BB spring is closest to the Yokomo Green?

[njc11]

W5184-04 :thumbsup:

At the oOple Race i ended up on Front 5x1.4mm 40wt AE.. Rear 5x1.45mm 30wt AE..

I now have the Tapered pistons to try.. so will report back once ive tried them..

:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Toby do you mean the 46mm shaft? Shock shafts are the same as the standard shocks so length for length just order the same part number.

Yokomo Green roughly a Losi Blue (still trying to find time to post-process the results of the measurements to adjust for the calibration errors)

I imagine that the Losi Black would be way too hard, what was the low speed steering like?

I have found that with the standard pistons in the back 22.5wt AE is about as much as is usable.
I've tried drilled pistons in them, find anything over 5x1.4 in the rear too be too much the other way, for me the standard pistons are just about right for the front ... if anything I would be looking at smaller holes.
Nick likes a softer car than me so it is worth trying both setups to see what works for you mate.

[/tobys]

Thanks for the shock shaft info. Have you ever tried the longer RB5 shock tops on the FS2 shocks to give more droop? I'm keen to try longer shafts to regain the droop that I lose by using the outer hole on the wishbone - I've tried on a number of occasions to use the middle but seem to gravitate back to the outer...

I've got some Yokomo Green springs on order so will be interesting to see how they compare with the TLR Blue and Black springs I have available to me.

Low speed steering seemed fine with the Black springs (but I was using the outer wishbone hole) although the Astro track I ran on was mostly high speed with just a couple of slow corners. It was quite bumpy in places (being mainly a 1/8th Nitro track) and 25wt was the lowest I had! Even then it felt quite lazy...

Running the FS2 again this weekend and I'm armed with some tapered pistons of varying sizes so will try to get a better overall package.

I am having some issues with TLR Rear spring length (a bit too long) - I have virtually zero thread left on the adjustment collars available to me at the moment. Are the Kyosho springs shorter? How do they compare to the Losi rears?

[Gayo]

Thanks for the shock shaft info. Have you ever tried the longer RB5 shock tops on the FS2 shocks to give more droop? I'm keen to try longer shafts to regain the droop that I lose by using the outer hole on the wishbone - I've tried on a number of occasions to use the middle but seem to gravitate back to the outer...

By doing this, you won't have enough uptravel. You need a longer shaft :woot: or unscrew the eyelet a few turns.

[/tobys]

Thank Gayo :thumbsup:

Saves me doing it myself only to find this out and then having to change it back!!

[RogerM]

Indeed, you can actually get to the point you start breaking things just by landing funny ... IMHO the cars only weak point is a slight lack of up travel, to that end I space my towers up by 2mm both ends and run shocks 1.4mm longer (unscrewed rod ends) .. works a treat!

I too have zero adjustment when running TLR rear springs ... there are some shorter lower spring seats from some other brands (Ansmann I think is one) so might well try them next time I am playing with setups.

[/tobys]

are the Kyosho rears shorter and how do they compare in rate - are they much softer?

[RogerM]

The Kyosho / X-gear rear springs are about 5mm shorter IIRC. I believe that the X-gear white is the same as a Losi yellow, X-gear red is similar a Losi Pink.

I say believe as there was a calibration issue on the machine when I measured all but the Losi springs and the few X-gears I have (which include the white so I'm sure on that one!).

It is only really the X-gear fronts that are soft compared to some other brands ranges.

[Gayo]

Here is my updated chart, made with a kitchen balance :woot:

REAR
K Pink 2.05
K White 2.10
K Gold 2.20
K Red 2.30
K Yellow 2.40
TL Red 3.00

FRONT
K Pink 3.19
K White 3.32
K Gold 3.42
K Red 3.57
K Yellow 3.69
TL Blue 4.25
Y Green 4.60
TL Black 4.80
Y Orange 5.25
Y Black 5.40

Indeed Roger, TL springs are way harder than what they claim, I wonder why :confused:
I need probably a rear TL pink spring and a front TL green to fill the gaps in my chart. I will update my findings when I get them.
:)

[/tobys]

Yes Gayo, well done - just needs the pink and yellow TL rear adding to your list :thumbsup:

Interesting measurements on the Front springs; my Yokomo Green and TL Black feel very similar. In my hands, I would have said the Yokomo Green was ever so slightly stiffer...