Disabled access

[neil1967]

Hi all,

Just a question i am 43 years old and have been racing since the age of 18, but for the last 4 years i have been in a wheelchair and you guessed it still want to race, but the trouble i have is no clubs have any kind of access to the rostrum at all for anyone in a wheelchair.

Now i understand this but feel that really more could be done for people in wheelchairs Lewis Hamiltion the F1 racer his brother races in nitro 1/18th and he is disabled but again he struggles onto the rostrum you would have thought that we would have some kind of help. I have approached lots of clubs by e-mail one mailed me back the others well they just ignored me i am not going to name any clubs but if they read this they would know.

I am not asking for a miracle or you would have thought i am, all i am asking for is a little understanding and maybe some access to allow me to carry on with the sport i love so much.

[Stu]

What part of the country are you at?

There are a couple of clubs up in the North West that have chair access, one 8th and one 10th.

[neil1967]

Hi sorry, i am in wiltshire west country

[sldmodels]

I mentioned wheelchair access to John @ Ardent and within a month, he had a ramp built.

I think part of the issue is, there aren't many racers who are also wheelchair users, but if you're a wheelchair user, and see the rostrum, and see no access to it, what can you do, and will a lot just not bother mentioning anything?

If this was a big business, then you should be able to expect full access, but since it isn't, all I can suggest is approaching individual clubs (as you've done already), but also following up, and looking into some kind of funding for those clubs to make the adaptions needed.

[Frecklychimp]

I was going to mention Ardent Raceway as i noticed the ramp access rostrum yesterday, a great facility if you like indoor carpet racing.

I run a club for 1/8th nitro and 1/10th electric offroad and was approached by a couple of guys last year needing wheelchair facilities to come and race, as a club we just could not afford to improve the outdoor venue safely so approached local council and Lottery funding for help, were turned down flat for any funding to help improve access :mad:

We are building a second rostrum for another integrated track so are trying to design in a raised platform which has ramped access and is high enough to give good visibility.

if i see any other clubs that cater for wheelchair users then i'll let you know :thumbsup:

[davidmog99]

When i visited Moto arena, there was a guy in a wheelchair using the second floor (accessible by lift), as he couldnt use the rostrum.
Seemed to give a good view of the track, and i think the rest of the facilities looked wheelchair friendly.

[ch!3f]

some clubs dont have a rostrum big enough for a wheel chair like at don valley also wombwell near me.if more clubs offered wheel chair access there would be more people able to race.best thing you can do is speak to they guys who run the club about racing there and see if its possible for something to be done for you.the only problem is the cost of doing it but there are companies out there who made ramps with abit of blagging will sort a ramp at cost or even free if you go in with a camera and pretend your filming for tv.

[Dudders]

Hi sorry, i am in wiltshire west country

I'm in the process of designing a new build metal restrom for a new venue in North East Hampshire, one side will be a ramp, the other steps.

If think in time good old Health and Safety and peoples human rights will come into play soon enough.

[ch!3f]

you have to remember that it has to come out of the clubs pocket which most clubs are none profit so all there money goes on booking venues and new bits for the tracks when needed.i would try the melinda messenger method and blag a ramp free from somwhere

[Dudders]

i would try the melinda messenger method and blag a ramp free from somwhere

Prefer to try Melinda Messenger full stop :woot::woot::woot::woot:

[ollie]

Maybe this is something the BRCA could look into as there are both companies and charities out there that help and support funding to enable disabled access to leisure and sport activities within the community.

[Frecklychimp]

If anyone one knows of support available for clubs or if any r/c clubs have had help from any associations recently then please let us know,

We would happily provide the facilities but with limited funding its not possible, especially when health and safety of drivers/visitors has to be priority,

our local authorities and Lottery application were refused as we were technically a private membership driven club and governed by BRCA, told it would be down to BRCA to support their disabled members, which i would be surprised if that was possible due to number of clubs and venues associated.

[David Church]

Hi all,

Just a question i am 43 years old and have been racing since the age of 18, but for the last 4 years i have been in a wheelchair and you guessed it still want to race, but the trouble i have is no clubs have any kind of access to the rostrum at all for anyone in a wheelchair.

Now i understand this but feel that really more could be done for people in wheelchairs Lewis Hamiltion the F1 racer his brother races in nitro 1/18th and he is disabled but again he struggles onto the rostrum you would have thought that we would have some kind of help. I have approached lots of clubs by e-mail one mailed me back the others well they just ignored me i am not going to name any clubs but if they read this they would know.

I am not asking for a miracle or you would have thought i am, all i am asking for is a little understanding and maybe some access to allow me to carry on with the sport i love so much.


Hi Neil,

It's very good that you have come forward and asked for help on this.
Our sport/hobby crosses all kinds of borders, physical, age, race, gender, just to name a few and when racing there is no advantage, we all can buy the same kit, and have the same opportunity, if you can get on the rostrum.
At the EIR race this year there was a guy in a wheelchair and they had to carry him up and down for every run!
As out sport is moving forward I'm sure more and more clubs will provide wheelchair access, but we do need people like you asking the question, not having a go! So good job there mate :thumbsup:

[ch!3f]

i suppose if you struggle to get funding you can allways do a charity event yourselfs to fund something like this.people tend to do well holding events and most club members will be willing to donate a few quid maybe more and participate too to help raise the funds.
id have a scout on google for uk companies who make similar products and get in touch with them.

[blue_pinky]

Our indoor club has managed to blag a metal ramp to give one of our members who's in a wheechair acces to a rostrum. We have some rostrum boxes built that are bigger footprint than the other to better accomodate wheelchairs.

It's only a low rostrum, as our room isn't massive, and we were just lucky that another member knew where he could lay his hands on a ramp that is perfect for the job. If he hadn't we'd still be lifted him up onto the rostrum to race! That worked ok for a bit, but is certainly not the safest way to go about it for him or for anyone helping to lift him.

If we hadn't been gifted our ramp it would have been a considerable spend to provide one, so it would have taken a while to get it sorted. I think all cubs would love to be able to provide that access if they knew it was going to be used by someone, but funds are obvously tight everywhere, so it's just not as easy as we'd like it to be.

We're hoping to build a new outdoor track shortly, and for sure we'll do everything we can to try and accomodate our members needs if it's feasibly possible. It just isn't always that simple when you have limited resources.

Fingers crossed we'll come up with a solution we can afford, and other clubs find ways to help out with this where they can, I'm sure if asked they'd all try and do everthing they could to help out.

Neil, where abouts in Wiltshire are you? You say south west, we have guys who come over from all around the SW area, including one from around Swindon somewhere I think to race with us, so not sure if we might be close enough?

Take a look and see...

www.caldicotrcracers.co.uk (http://www.caldicotrcracers.co.uk)

:thumbsup:

[neil1967]

Hi all,

Thank you for the time to read and reply, I have approached clubs and even offerd to either help pay, or even pay for a ramp, or some kind of lift contraption.

All was ignored the BRCA only affiliate clubs and therefore am unable to step in and help, i am sure one day that i may be able to race again soon, also someone mentioned Ardent i have raced my Mardave there and loved every minute of it so a big thanks goes to John at Ardent racing.

Again thank you all for the replys, PS if Melinda could supply a ramp i would be mor than happy :wub

[sldmodels]

I was watching Midlands Today earlier, and it said that the council's in this area are sitting on £70million worth of funds to go to "community projects". Say Tesco want to build a new supermarket, as a sweetener, they give so much money to pay for these things. I'm sure it's not just the midlands this happens in, but it might be worth applying for some of that money, also, if it can be organised through the BRCA, ordering more than just one off items, we could get any costs reduced.

Other than that, there are charities that could help, but it would be upto the person needing the help with the co-operation of the club concerned, so in Sam's case (my ex), we'd ask Scope (Cerebral Palsey charity), and then organisations like the Lions, the Rotary club etc.

[Dazzler]

Hi all,

Thank you for the time to read and reply, I have approached clubs and even offerd to either help pay, or even pay for a ramp, or some kind of lift contraption.

All was ignored the BRCA only affiliate clubs and therefore am unable to step in and help, i am sure one day that i may be able to race again soon, also someone mentioned Ardent i have raced my Mardave there and loved every minute of it so a big thanks goes to John at Ardent racing.

Again thank you all for the replys, PS if Melinda could supply a ramp i would be mor than happy :wub

When you say you have approached clubs, have you actually visited and spoke to the people who run it? You may find that details like e-mail addresses are no longer being used, web sites not updated etc. Most clubs rely upon members with specific skills to help organise such things, and unfortunately members move on for whatever reason, and these things lapse. So to go there is a sure fire way of ensuring they know you would like to race there, and that you would like to find a way of making it possible / wheelchair friendly.

I'm sure if you visit your local club, see what facilities they do or don't have, make sure it's somewhere you actually want to go and race, then propose what would be needed, most clubs, individuals and committee's would see what could be done.

It sounds like you're giving up on a hobby you have previously enjoyed and would like to continue enjoying... I'm sure you could make this happen if you want it to. That's my thoughts and suggestion anyway.... :thumbsup:

[sldmodels]

it's something we all need to think about, as we're all getting older.

[lotussmart]

John from Ardent here, we have the privilege of being permanent, so a breeze block solid ramp structure was fairly easy to throw together, I sympathise with both wheel chair users and RC clubs as they will desperately want to accommodate you but sometimes factors get in the way, not just money, but permission, health and safety etc.. I do think that clubs that host BRCA (and other large events) should provide access and those clubs when looking for indoor venues to run from should look for buildings that have stages as rostrums and will therefore most likely have wheelchair access. There are charities that can help fund the improvement of facilities, we ourselves are looking at building a toilet block that has disabled access (this is currently a big problem and is very much playing on all our minds at Ardent). Watch this space and i'll let you know how we get on with it all. It would be useful for the BRCA to collate and report whether clubs have wheelchair access onto rostrums, just a thought. In the meantime good luck with your racing and hope we see you back soon.

[sldmodels]

When you look about how to do it John, any "official" advice will probably only tell you how to put it together for the "standard" wheelchair user, and there's no such thing. Have a word with your local shopmobility people, and they should be able to give you a good idea, as they'll know lots of wheelchair users.

As cold as those toilet seats in the toilet block get though, the idea of pre-warmed seats is just wrong :thumbdown::lol:

[neil1967]

Again thank you all for your replys, John i must admit the toilets were a bit naff and bloody cold but at least you have a rostrum so thank you. Yes i have been to clubs and offered to pay but i am afraid that they were un-interested so i guess maybe its time to hang up my racing shoes, anyone wanna buy a 1/8th rally cross xray sorry, and a mardave:(

[SlowOne]

Going back a lot of years, we had a racer in a wheelchair and he went to extraordinary lengths to get a rostrum-level view of the track. However, one venue put on a small lift, probably something like a fork-truck, but with a platform and a rail round it.

Perhaps instead of the usual ramped affair, we could find something like this and hire it for big events, or the club might buy one. It takes up the space of one rostrum spot, and because it is a vertical lift, it comes to ground level for the driver to get the wheelchair on and off.

Just a thought...

[sldmodels]

The only issue with a lift, is that lifts can break down. I remember me and Sam went to a club in Birmingham a few years ago during the day for a market they'd put on, and on the top floor they had a demo on. The club in question has two lifts, well, both of them broke down while Sam was 2 floors up. If he'd have been in his manual wheelchair, then no problem, he'd have had to come down the stairs on his bum while someone brought his chair down, but he was in his powerchair, which isn't the lightest thing thing in the world. He did however get a small army of helpers lifting him and the chair down 2 flights (I can't remember what I was doing at the time, possibly trying to find someone to help).

[David Church]

Again thank you all for your replys, John i must admit the toilets were a bit naff and bloody cold but at least you have a rostrum so thank you. Yes i have been to clubs and offered to pay but i am afraid that they were un-interested so i guess maybe its time to hang up my racing shoes, anyone wanna buy a 1/8th rally cross xray sorry, and a mardave:(

Nooooooo don't do it!!!! I see a small problem, your not a 1/10 off road racer!!!
I personally have found the 1/10 off road scene to be the nicest and most helpful racers ever. Don't sell all your stuff, don't give up, keep racing:thumbsup:

[taz5311]

I too am a disabled driver and need to use a wheelchair.
I have raced 1/10th at a number of tracks around the UK and as yet have not found one with access to the rostrum, so I am having to use my sticks to climb the stairs. This infact makes my day a lot more physically and mentally challenging. Not been to ardent yet but nice to see a venue that has the forsight to include a ramp.:thumbsup:

I appreciate that many clubs will not neccessarily have the space in order to install a ramp nor the funds to buy or build one especially if it will only be used by the odd visitor. But as a hobby that is open to all, and covers drivers up to both national and international levels should it really be down to the disabled person to do all the pushing and drive to have access?

Just think how much more we as members and the BRCA as a group could open this up to others who are currently missing out on the sport.

[neil1967]

The thing is i am fully in the chair no ifs no butts i am unable to walk up or down stairs at all, been like this for 4 years now my life changed overnight but hey life goes on.

Anyway reading Radio Control Car Racer the Feb 2011 edition there is an article in there from a race meeting where the rostrum was not big enough for this race meeting so they made an extension, again i undersdtand but surely if some clubs can make an extension they could make a lift? or even a two step ramp that everyone could use not just people in chairs, this then does away with the need for stairs slippery at most times etc.

[cr1tch]

if your ever up north near Blackpool and want to race, please visit this club its got a ramp rostrum, disabled loos and lots on pit space... only roblem is getting up to theclub as its up sum stair but if you cotact Damo or Danny the main guys at the club they will be more than happy to help you get up the stairs and carry ur kit etc....... check pics on web site hope this helps....... http://www.brccc.co.uk/

[neil1967]

Hi Cr1tch

Thanks for your reply but again, as i am fully in the chair getting to the venue is via stairs so again that would present a problem for me, apart from that the club seems ideal, but thank you all for your replys it means a lot, cheers again

Neil

[Dave Treacy]

MKRCTC has disabled access at Millmead Hall.
Moto-Arena has disabled access as well.

[rbridd]

One thing you may want to bear in mind is that the clubs themselves are wary of health and safety.

As the club is not a PLC, the committee members themselves are liable for anything which goes wrong.

All the while there is no wheelchair access, it's not a problem, but if you TRY to provide wheelchair access, then it has to be right. Just sticking a ramp up isn't the answer, there are rules about width, steepness, materials, traction... and I can't imagine the fallout that would happen, if a lift, which in most cases would need to be temporary, were to go wrong and injure anyone.

All club officials are volunteers, the clubs themselves are non-profit making organisations, in some cases loss making. Most will not have the legal expertise to navigate this kind of issue, and cannot afford the legal advice necessary.
Providing disabled access opens up a whole legal can of worms, which I imagine, most would rather avoid.

[eyeayen]

Surely this is something the BRCA should be able to help with and also get behind. They could also get a clubs with wheelchair access on their site so you could at least check it out from there.

[mattJT]

Three of the new amendments to the DDA 1995, amended 2005

Amend the way that the DDA 1995 applies to group insurance to clarify the responsibilities of those concerned with its provisions.

Introduce for Part 3 of the DDA 1995 (i.e. access to goods and services, public authorities, private clubs and premises) a Questions Procedure similar to that, which already exists in Part 2 (i.e. employment and occupation).

Make it unlawful for private clubs with 25 or more members to treat disabled people less favourably


(with DDA 1995 however comes the phrase "reasonably practicable")


Another interesting one is the Social Model of Disability, whereby it's societies barriers that dis-ables the person and not the persons disability (that causes the barriers).

[mark christopher]

here we go human rights blah blah blah, while i fully feel for those less fortunate to be able bodied, to force clubs to cater for them could see many disapear. to fit a lift is brilliant in an ideal world, but how much? it would need power, and a saftey certificate, some one to maintain and operate it.
how many clubs have tempory rostrums?, as suggested a pallet and folk lift, no who has a licence for it and is covered to lift somone up on it?? try a risk assesment on that ( yup more H&S crap)

you could build a ramp to the rostrum for all to use but you would need a far less steeper angle of stairs to the rostrum level, or a double flight, then the slope if too steep is a slip hazard.

here a sugestion, two scafold planks each side of the steps, leaving steps in the middle and a 4x4 12 volt winch to pull chair up and down?

[mark christopher]

if your ever up north near Blackpool and want to race, please visit this club its got a ramp rostrum, disabled loos and lots on pit space... only problem is getting up to the club as its up sum stair but if you cotact Damo or Danny the main guys at the club they will be more than happy to help you get up the stairs and carry ur kit etc....... check pics on web site hope this helps....... http://www.brccc.co.uk/


class lol
cater for em but they carnt get in!

[David Church]

You have a way with words Mark. Reading your comments has made me smile:D

[mattJT]

here we go human rights blah blah blah, while i fully feel for those less fortunate to be able bodied, to force clubs to cater for them could see many disapear. to fit a lift is brilliant in an ideal world, but how much? it would need power, and a saftey certificate, some one to maintain and operate it.
how many clubs have tempory rostrums?, as suggested a pallet and folk lift, no who has a licence for it and is covered to lift somone up on it?? try a risk assesment on that ( yup more H&S crap)

you could build a ramp to the rostrum for all to use but you would need a far less steeper angle of stairs to the rostrum level, or a double flight, then the slope if too steep is a slip hazard.

here a sugestion, two scafold planks each side of the steps, leaving steps in the middle and a 4x4 12 volt winch to pull chair up and down?


The two words that are inherently linked to the DDA and HASAW are reasonably practicable as mentioned in the post:

What is reasonable for my business?

You should consider the following when deciding what sort of change is likely to be reasonable for your company:

Type of business
Size of the business and annual turnover
Cost of the adjustment
Disruption to the business while the work is being carried out
Practicality of carrying out the adjustment
Potential benefits to disabled customers and employees

[mark christopher]

You have a way with words Mark. Reading your comments has made me smile:D
i try :thumbsup:

brooklands is the only on road track i know off with wheel chair access. though its a platform half the height of the main rostrum.................... mind least its half way there :lol:

[mark christopher]

The two words that are inherently linked to the DDA and HASAW are reasonably practicable as mentioned in the post:

What is reasonable for my business?





You should consider the following when deciding what sort of change is likely to be reasonable for your company:

Type of business
Size of the business and annual turnover
Cost of the adjustment
Disruption to the business while the work is being carried out
Practicality of carrying out the adjustment
Potential benefits to disabled customers and employees


what the F does that have to do with the real world and model car racing/clubs :confused:..... note clubs (guys playing with toy cars) not comercial venue

[mattJT]

what the F does that have to do with the real world and model car racing/clubs :confused:..... note clubs (guys playing with toy cars) not comercial venue


Simples, the DDA does cover rc clubs if there's 25 members.

As for being reasonably practicable, that covers the implementation of the DDA, so yes, it is applicable, (Whether it's guys playing with toy cars or a load of nan's knitting).


The 'private club' provisions of the Disability Discrimination Act apply to any association of people, if:

it has 25 or more members
it does not matter whether the club's activities are carried out for profit, nor whether the club is corporate or unincorporated.

[dodgydiy]

in the early nineties when i used to go away racing all the time, i remember one racer who was in a wheelchair, there were always people who would carry him up to a chair on the rostrum or him and his wheelchair onto the rostrum, everyone helped out. if you did that now health and safety would have a fit, plus people dont seem to want to do things like this any more, probably for fear of being sued. As for the disabled access act, i know a shop owner who ended up in court because he could not provide a suitable disabled access to his high street shop, the council tried to close him but failed, as national parks were the ones who stopped him adding a 'temporary' ramp as his shop was in a listed building. the funny thing is he sold things like diving and climbing gear, not the most popular things for the majority of wheelchair users

[Col]

What the chuff is DDA and HASAW?

There is a simple solution to this problem - make everyone race from the floor.

Does that discriminate against the short arse?

At york we don't even have a rostrum for club nights. We just use the benches left in the hall by the school so at best we're standing 20" off the floor on a 12" wide bench that's not capable of taking a whelchair.
Unfortunately I think the only clubs that are going to be able to provide access are the ones with a permanent, full time venue.

[Frecklychimp]

Where we all agree that providing access to race facilities for wheelchair users is a great benefit to our hobby and encouraging more racers...

there is the fact that modifying a large number of club facilities would not be viable for that club to afford to do without assistance and, as i have already found, getting the assistance with funding is pretty non existant unless anyone can seriously shed light from experience?

I think us as nationwide racers can do the job of collating info regarding which existing clubs provide required facilities... then submit the list to BRCA to publish and have a sticky in the forum in a sensible thread/section.

so to start the list:

* Ardent Raceway (indoor 1/10th/1/12th on road, mardave and 1/10th off-road),

* Moto Arena (indoor 1/10th on road and 1/10th offroad),

please add any clubs you know of or edit info as corrections,

Mark :thumbsup:

[David Church]

A guy used to race at Crawley outdoor off road track in a wheelchair that lifted him up a bit, he drove it round next to the rostrum, raised the seat up on his chair and raced from there. But a valid point is can't you drive your car from your wheel chair on the ground? Yes not ideal, but you could still race.

[Col]

Where we all agree that providing access to race facilities for wheelchair users is a great benefit to our hobby and encouraging more racers...

I've got to disagree with that. It would be nice if we could all provide facilities, but are there really that many people with "limited mobility" wanting to race?
I've been racing on and off for nearly 20 years and have only ever seen 2 disables racers. Or is it a vicious circle?

[mattJT]

Or is it a vicious circle?


Problem is we'll never know the answer to that question, if clubs are able to make adjustments in the future, then we'll be able to answer it.

[Frecklychimp]

I've got to disagree with that. It would be nice if we could all provide facilities, but are there really that many people with "limited mobility" wanting to race?
I've been racing on and off for nearly 20 years and have only ever seen 2 disables racers. Or is it a vicious circle?

I think the vicious circle does its fair bit tbh, doing something positive about it might encourage more people into and our hobby?

At the end of the day any of us could be in the same position... I had to give up the hobby 10 yrs ago after smashing my wrist and not being able to use my hand for over a year, Its pretty gutting having to give up something that you are passionate about.

If we can do something to help people that want to race then there should be no question, least we can all do is promote those clubs that can offer wheelchair access.

[David Church]

Disability Discrimination Act (DDA)
THE HEALTH AND SAFETY AT WORK ACT (HASWA)

[mattJT]

At the end of the day any of us could be in the same position... I had to give up the hobby 10 yrs ago after smashing my wrist and not being able to use my hand for over a year, Its pretty gutting having to give up something that you are passionate about.

If we can do something to help people that want to race then there should be no question, least we can all do is promote those clubs that can offer wheelchair access.


+1, well said.

[SlowOne]

Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - who has something positive to contribute to this debate? Why does it always seem that those who have an excuse not to do anything (and hide behind all sorts of things to make sure they don't have to do anything) post, and those who can do something don't?

The H&S/DDA/etc excuses hold absolutely no water whatsoever. We didn't welcome those with a physical disability in the years when none of this H&S and DDA stuff existed, and we haven't changed one iota from that position since. Today, we are still way less than welcoming, and certainly don't make any effort to attract people for whom RC would be something they could easily do, even if they are restricted from physical sports. Before, we simply ignored it and now (because we don't want to appear to be discriminatory?) we trot out the H&S/we're only a Club/too hard/too risky excuses. Feck-all has changed, so why not be honest and say you can't be arsed to try and help?

Let's have posts from people who are prepared to work with those who understand the issues, and are just looking for people to take a rational risk to help them race. I'm fed up with hearing from people who say it's all too difficult, and mount one unsubstantiated fear on top of another as some sort of reason to Matt why we can't do it.

It won't be long before the "where have all the racers gone?" and "what can we do about the sport before it dies?" posts appear. Here's a ready-made community of people who want to race, and all we do is tell them it's all too difficult. Hardly our best plan, eh guys? Just a thought...

[mattJT]

Is there anyone out there - anyone at all - who has something positive to contribute to this debate? .


I think you just did ;)

[neil1967]

Hi all, me who started the debate, first of all i welcome all replies and untill you have tried racing from sitting in a wheelchair then believe me you really cant understand how hard it is. I was able to walk right up untill the age of 39 then overnight became wheelchair bound, i understand that yes making a rostrum for wheelchair access is costly, but again Radio Control Car racer, FEB 2011, has an article where a venue the rostrum only allowed 9 drivers, so they built an extension to allow 15 or more drivers all i can say is untill you are in a wheelchair you would then see how unfair and advantge you have over someone who is low down, you try the next race meeting SITTING in a chair and try to race believe me you will not be able to race properly as you cannot see the corners correctly at all.
Let me know how you get on and please be honest.

[Fast Eddie]

I have followed this thread with interest over the last few days. I am able bodied so dont use a wheelchair.
People will not understand how hard it is and will never race sat down in a seat because they would be disadvantaged.
In my opinion this should have been dealt with at club level. It is unfair for this to be spread across a nation of clubs who may never encounter a disabled racer.
If I were in your situation Neil, I would be extremely annoyed if provisions were not looked into at my local club. They may not have the money but should at least cost the mods and have an open discussion with members.
Just my opinions, I am a crap driver and am fitted in somewhere, is it so difficult to accomodate people?

[The Chef]

I'm in the process of designing a new build metal restrom for a new venue in North East Hampshire, one side will be a ramp, the other steps.

If think in time good old Health and Safety and peoples human rights will come into play soon enough.

Sorry but where in north east hampshire is your club?

2ndly my wife is in a wheel chair not that she races cars but I was thinking would it be viable to have a portable fold down ramp built for you?

of If you had one of these http://www.bentleyfielden.co.uk/product_drive-telescopic_38.html would 7 feet be enough to get you on the rostrum? Just a thought and hope it may help.

[Dudders]

Sorry but where in north east hampshire is your club?

2ndly my wife is in a wheel chair not that she races cars but I was thinking would it be viable to have a portable fold down ramp built for you?

of If you had one of these http://www.bentleyfielden.co.uk/product_drive-telescopic_38.html would 7 feet be enough to get you on the rostrum? Just a thought and hope it may help.

See here: http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57551

Rostrom is scratch build (will be) so will have a ramp. I just hope Neil (above, not me) pulls his weight when marshalling!!! ;););)

[David Church]

Hi again Neil,
I have read this whole thread and after reading the last few new post's there are a few points I would like to make.
I can't help but feel perhaps some people have the wrong attitude when it comes to this subject. I'm not singling you out Neil.
Now I would never begin to say how tough it is to be in a wheel chair, I could only imagine how hard it would be!!!

But how about a positive mental attitude towards this subject.
Find a club to race where the people are very nice, yes this can involve a lot of driving, get involved, race as much as possible, even if you have to do it off the ground, yes it's gonna be tough, but as you get to know the members of the club talk to them about a disabled ramp, and see if one could be built!!!
This may mean trying a few different clubs or a few different sections.

Now you may read this and think "what a load of sh1t" I am talking.
But the truth is Neil, there is no easy answer!
But don't give up on the sport you enjoy because you can't get what you need/want or because the people you have been dealing with aren't giving you the answers you want. Get out there and make it happen. :thumbsup:

[sldmodels]

I've only been twice, but at Wrexham, they have a ramp to a lowered 1 or 2 space rostrum, that is also further forward than the main rostrum. I have tried practicing by sitting on the stage at my old club, and it isn't easy, especially in a big hall.

The main issue though, is always going to be money. I'm not going to mention the club as that wouldn't be fair. But a club has recently changed it's rostrum and resurfaced the track, but no ramp upto the rostrum, and I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I think that if clubs don't realise the demand is there, they don't know to fulfill it, and I do know, most clubs will try to help "lifting you upto the stage / rostrum, but I know from Sam's point of view, he'd be too scared for himself and the people helping him to be happy doing that.

Maybe you could write something for Circuit Chatter to make everyone aware of the problems, and making th clubs aware of the issue too.

[Colinevan]

Southport has within the last year or 2, altered the rostrum area in front to allow a platform leading to a mini rostrum.

As far as i am aware, this was a collaberated effort between the club and the racer.

Im sure if any club was decent enough and had a permanent rostrum, and there was a contribution made ( why not adapt ).

There might even be funding available.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else knows more info on Southports details though.

Col.

[burgie]

Southport's disabled access was paid for out of the clubs funds, and was incorporated into the new rostrum build.

We are fortunate at Southport to have a a good committee with a wide skill base within the club memebership, so all welding, joinery and foundation work was done by a small band of club committee members.

The council were not interested in helping us financially, nor were any charity funders interested because of a number of reasons namely because the improvement wouldn't help enough people. :thumbdown:

[neil1967]

I've got to disagree with that. It would be nice if we could all provide facilities, but are there really that many people with "limited mobility" wanting to race?
I've been racing on and off for nearly 20 years and have only ever seen 2 disables racers. Or is it a vicious circle?

Trouble is when i was not in the chair i have seen a couple of racers, but just because there is a minority does it mean that something should not be done? ive been to a couple of tracks offered to help with costs etc but oh no can't do that? again going back to Nicholas Hamilton, i bet if he asked for them to buld something the answer would be a simple YES not having a go at Nicholas but saying how it looks.
Ive been racing since the age of 17 i am 43 and through no fault of my own am in a wheelchair, i went to bed saturday night woke up found i could not walk, that was four years ago since that day ive not raced but hey it happens.

[Col]

Trouble is when i was not in the chair i have seen a couple of racers, but just because there is a minority does it mean that something should not be done?

Agree whole heartedly buddy.
(Bearing in mind we don't even use a rostrum) Assuming you (or others) could guarantee to race week in, week out, I see no reason why any decent, profitable(if there is such a thing?) club shouldn't be able to come up with a workable solution.
The problem is simply that with our combined 45 years racing experience we've seen 4 disabled racers.

[sldmodels]

it is a vicious circle though. 11 years ago when I first met Sam, if he wanted to travel anywhere, he had to go by train and taxi, which isn't the cheapest option, especially when at the time, he was going from Euston Station Earls Court and Hammersmith on a regular basis. I said to him not to be daft, and I'd take him on the tube, but even that meant walking from Euston to Russel Square, then having him get out of his chair so he could "bump" down the dozen or so stairs (he wasn't as big then as he his now :p).

Now though, with the changes in the law that have happened, all new public transport vehicles built in this coutry or for this country have to be wheelchair friendly, and we often bump into other wheelchair users on the bus (it's also highly amusing to see all these old biddies have to get up and move down the bus when we get on, not that I want to see old people struggle, but how many of us gave up seats for older people when we we're younger for them to get some kind of attitude about it and not do the same when someone else needs that space more than them).

To quote from Wayne World 2 "If you build it, they will come". Sometimes that might mean having wheelchair access that is never used, but at least those people who are wheelchair users, won't fall at the first stumbling block (pardon any perceived punn there).

[Col]

To quote from Wayne World 2 "If you build it, they will come". Sometimes that might mean having wheelchair access that is never used.

So if you build it, they probably won't come?

[sldmodels]

So if you build it, they probably won't come?

No, it means that you might build it, and it might never be used, but at least it COULD be used. Just because modern buses have space for wheelchairs, it doesn't mean there's always a wheelchair user on the bus, but in those same spaces, there are fold down seats (except for London, but they have more and bigger buses anyway).

If there's no ramp there, it can never be used by someone in a wheelchair. Remember that it can always be used as a "selling point" for the club involved too, when numbers nearly everywhere are on the slide.

[Douglas]

The builders are starting in the next week(hopefully) at Moto Arena to extend the mezzanine to the drivers stand, this means that with the disabled lift we already have installed, there will be wheelchair access to the drivers stand in about 3 weeks time. sorry it took so long.

[sldmodels]

I don't think there's need to apologise, better to take your time and get it right, than rush and mess it up

[neil1967]

So if you build it, they probably won't come?May i ask, can you walk up a ramp? think the answer is yes, can i get up stairs now? nope so why not make it universal for everyone

[RedAl]

I'm the person mentioned earlier in this thread seen racing from a wheelchair at moto arena.

I've recently returned to model car racing after a break of 20 years having now introduced the first of my kids to it.

My local club at Milton Keynes normally race in a fairly small hall and don't have a rostrum, drivers usually stand on plastic chairs. I have an electric chair that raises me up to normal standing height which means I can race without any significant disadvantage. The members of the club have been incredibly welcoming and i'm pretty sure the committee would do all they could to help me where they can.

Moto arena are a perfect example of poor advice and lack of thought in the planning.

The venue went to significant effort and expense when setting up the venue to provide disabled access, disabled toilets and even a proper commercial lift up to the mezzanine that houses the simulators and the like.

What they didn't do is provide disabled access to the rostrum for either the indoor or outdoor track !

I have raced from the mezzanine, but as this is beyond one end of the track rather than at the side it nearly impossible to see the track clearly at the far end.

A little thought in the design would have allowed access to the rostrum with little or no additional expense.

I'm really pleased to see on here the plan to address the issue, but it's not the first time i've heard it.

[Col]

May i ask, can you walk up a ramp? think the answer is yes, can i get up stairs now? nope so why not make it universal for everyone

We have neither stairs or ramps. TBH I struggle a little with both as I've got bad knee's.
I have to apologise as I'm sounding extremely negative towards disabled people and not even a little bit welcoming, but the simple fact is not many clubs have the cash to spend on a ramp/raised platform.

[mk2kompressor]

I'm really pleased to see on here the plan to address the issue, but it's not the first time i've heard it.


i think i told you a while back it was in the plan, its being started this week:thumbsup:

[RedAl]

That's fantastic, thanks Matt.

It's not my intention to be critical of moto arena on this as they made huge effort in making the venue both accessible and welcoming for someone in a wheelchair. They just didn't think it through in the initial design phase.

It's much easier and cheaper to design in access from the beginning than trying to sort it out afterwards.

Hopefully this thread may bring the issue to a slightly wider audience and make it something people consider when designing new tracks and rostrums.

If I can ever assist anyone who is considering how to improve accessibility i'd be only too pleased to help.

[Dudders]

Neil,

Our new rostrum is due to be installed on Thursday morning :thumbsup:

You'll be pleased to hear that we have a RAMP on one side that sounds like it will be suitable for you. The rostrum is 1.5m wide so you should have lots of room to wheel about :D Dont sell up just yet!!!.

The ramp will be about 4m long and rise up to the 1.5m height of the platform. You might need a shove to get up (you can make your own way down;)) be we can all lend a hand.

Hope so see you soon to test it out!

HTH, Neil

Hi all,

Just a question i am 43 years old and have been racing since the age of 18, but for the last 4 years i have been in a wheelchair and you guessed it still want to race, but the trouble i have is no clubs have any kind of access to the rostrum at all for anyone in a wheelchair.

Now i understand this but feel that really more could be done for people in wheelchairs Lewis Hamiltion the F1 racer his brother races in nitro 1/18th and he is disabled but again he struggles onto the rostrum you would have thought that we would have some kind of help. I have approached lots of clubs by e-mail one mailed me back the others well they just ignored me i am not going to name any clubs but if they read this they would know.

I am not asking for a miracle or you would have thought i am, all i am asking for is a little understanding and maybe some access to allow me to carry on with the sport i love so much.

[taz5311]

Hi Dudders,
As a wheelchair user myself it's nice to see a club look at this issue from the off, would it be possible for you to put some pic's and info up about your ramp as this may help other clubs consider installing one at some stage.
I'll be racing at all the rounds of the uk shortcourse nationals this year but will have to climb steps at all the venues. not a major issue but will tire me out a lot quicker.

[Dudders]

Hi Dudders,
As a wheelchair user myself it's nice to see a club look at this issue from the off, would it be possible for you to put some pic's and info up about your ramp as this may help other clubs consider installing one at some stage.
I'll be racing at all the rounds of the uk shortcourse nationals this year but will have to climb steps at all the venues. not a major issue but will tire me out a lot quicker.

Will do, any excuse to get out of marshalling eh? ;)

[RedAl]

Well, despite the promises made earlier in this thread by moto arena I was hugely dissapointed when I visited yesterday to find that the promised disabled access to the drivers rostrum has still not materialised. :thumbdown:

[RedAl]

Following my most recent visit to Moto Arena on Sunday i'm happy to report that they have lived up to the promises and can now boast a fantastic, fully accessible venue.

If anyone is looking for an RC circuit that enables a wheelchair user to compete at no disadvantage to anyone else then moto arena is that place.

Level access into and throughout the interior of the building;
A commercial lift up to the second floor mezzanine that connects through to the drivers rostrum;
Fully accessible disabled toilets
There really is now nothing else I could possibly hope for. Thanks to the people behind MA for the work they have undertaken, and Matt in particular to pushing on my behalf. :thumbsup:

My only problem now is that I have no excuse for crashing!:thumbdown: