TLR 22 Build and Set-ups

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Here is some build and setup info for the TLR22.

Build Tips


1. Be very careful when installing your steering servo – look out for touch conditions between the ball cup and the servo case and the servo arm and the underside of the front bulkhead. We have experienced a touch condition between the S6070 servo case and the drag link ball cup. To overcome this, I have swapped the standard ball cup for a Losi JRXS-R captured ball end (LOSA6017) but a short neck ball might also do the trick. Just look out for this during the build. Low profile servos tend to have an offset drive output - this can casue a light touch condition with the underside of the front bulkhead which can be relieved with a dremel and a small sanding drum.

2. Please note that our early set ups were developed using 6 hole pistons. The car comes with 4-hole. You will need to make a choice as to whether or not to initially drill out your pistons or experiment to make 4-holes work for you. I imagine a good initial base will be 4 hole 56 or 4 hole 55 in the front with 6 hole 55 or 4 hole 55 + 2 hole 54 (6 hole total) in the rear.

3. Its been said before but the 22 is metric – do you’ll need a 2.0mm and a 2.5mm hex wrench and 5.5mm and 7.0mm nut drivers. A couple of odd ball screws thrown in for good measure. There’s a tiny c’sk screw that holds the rear toe block in place that actually uses a 1.3mm wrench – although a 0.05 imperial wrench will fit and of course the slipper nut uses a 5.0mm driver (see below)

4. Slipper spanner – don’t forget it’s a 5mm nut wrench and chances are, you’ll not have any M2.5 nylocs as spares. So don’t lose the slipper nut. Spares are available – TLR6312 for a pack of 6

5. Front wheel lug nuts – we’ve lost a few of these in testing. They’re not nylocs and the outside front wheel can have a nasty habit of coming loose -especially on high bite surfaces. One fix is to VERY LIGHTLY drip some threadlock onto the screw threads and allow it to dry before fitting the front wheels. This helps to create a bind to slow down the coming loose process. That said, it is too easy to put too much threadlock on and you’ll end up having to bin a complete front hub assembly. Cross filing the back of the lug nut may also help it grip the surface of the wheel and stop it coming loose. Please be careful with threadlock and don’t use the red permanent stuff – I used Losi-Lok but very thinly applied. Tamiya Threadlock could also be good.

6. High Roll Centre Blocks are optional but worth the investment for UK style tracks. If you choose to invest in these, don’t forget that you’ll need the corresponding HRC anti-squat shim kit (TLR2045). This is one area where the design of the car changed during development – the US guys prefer the feel of the LRC block but when we tested, we preferred the feel of the HRC block. The LRC block got the nod ahead of the HRC block for inclusion into the kit but at least the HRC blocks became part of the options list.

7. Springs – Being honest with you, I have no idea if our prototype springs are exactly the same as the production ones. Having said that, on a rating scale (of 1 being the softest and 6 being the hardest), you’ll see from the set up sheets that we were running F4 / F5 on the front and R2 / R3 on the back. That would equate on a rising rate scale of a Green or a Blue on the Front and a Yellow or a Pink on the rear. The kit comes with Red fronts (F2 on my scale) and Yellow Rears (R2) so you may need some optional front springs at least.

8. Weight. The 22 can be built up to run at close to the legal limit at around 1500g but in all of our testing to date here in the UK, we have found that adding some weight has been beneficial to the overall consistency of the car on our high bite tracks. On a flying lap, an unweighted car can feel very fast but often, the consistency seems to suffer (or at least mine does:cry:).
During testing, we were using the RudeBits (www.rudebits.co.uk) CR2 under cell 102g weight under our saddle pack lipos - Thank you Tony. For those who don't know the part number, I'm sure Tony will be able to confirm it - along with some other very exciting ideas:woot:
TLR have produced an optional mid car brass weight kit (TLR4151 - RRP £19.95) which is to the design of the weight block that we were using during testing. This system enables 50-60g of weight to be added to the rear gearbox / shock tower area of the car which we found was very useful in all conditions. These have also been shipped with the initial batch of kits and spares and are available now through your TLR stockists.

Set Ups
I'll try to post some actual sheets soon but here is a largely generic astro starting set up. We have found that the car responds well to small changes but by and large, this standard setup is useful for starting out with. Don't forget that our testing was with different pistons but I've tried to give you a starting point for the kit pistons. If you don't fancy drilling pistons, I would recommend starting with the 4 x 54 hole pistons in the rear and possibly going down to a 25wt to begin with - but being honest, this is not something I've yet had the chance to try.

[Timee80]

very handy info / tips to have. Thanks
Do you have any setup advice for running the 22 rear motored? I plan to be different to everybody else in the uk and try it this way round first.
Time will tell if im doing right or not

[reg]

Thanks for your time,will there be any team drivers on sunday at Ardent

[Legacy555]

Some good info there Andy thanks.

Just wondering if you had any thoughts on the balance of the rotating masses in the transmission. Could we be shifting to the 3 gear transmission and using a CR2 style extra idler in an attempt to get all of the large masses rotating in the same direction, to improve the controlability of the car in the air. This will also move the motor back over the rear axle more, improving the grip in slippy/wet conditions....

[Gnarly Old Dog]

very handy info / tips to have. Thanks
Do you have any setup advice for running the 22 rear motored? I plan to be different to everybody else in the uk and try it this way round first.
Time will tell if im doing right or not

TBH, we never ran the rear car very much during testing over here as we needed to concentrate more on the mid car.
However, when we did run one, we used a very similar starting set up - it felt incredibly lush to drive and was very rewarding when you hooked everything up together. I was a fraction slower with the rear car than I was with the mid but it felt rewarding to drive.
I would suggest that the 4 hole rear pistons might actually be better suited to a rear configuration when taking into account the mass of the motor helping to dampen the rear end.
I did end up using a spring rate that was slightly lighter on the front when using the rear motor car - but I have to say that my set up was far from perfect and I ended up going the wrong way during the day which ultimately didn't become apparent until later.

Definately worth a go though - there's no reason why the rear car wouldn't work and for some drivers, it will feel more natural to drive a traditional rear-motor buggy than a midcar. That said, I do believe that the nature of our track designs and surfaces lends itself to a mid configuration so even if the rear car feels nicer, the mid car will probably end up being faster.

But that's the beauty - you can run it which ever way you want.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Some good info there Andy thanks.

Just wondering if you had any thoughts on the balance of the rotating masses in the transmission. Could we be shifting to the 3 gear transmission and using a CR2 style extra idler in an attempt to get all of the large masses rotating in the same direction, to improve the controlability of the car in the air. This will also move the motor back over the rear axle more, improving the grip in slippy/wet conditions....

I've not had any such thoughts Will - but clearly you have:lol:

TBH, I'm just happy to drive it as it is right now.

I'd never say never - but I don't think I'll be trying it just yet.

[reg]

you say to use the HRS block,what deg would be the best to start,

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Thats a tricky one.

I ran the 4 degree HRC but David and Darren ran and preferred the 4.5 deg.
Simon ran the 5 degree block and we all started with the 3.5 deg block.
Much will be determined by individual preference but I'd say either 4 or 4.5

[reg]

thanks Gnarly Old Dog,will the average joe notice a difference between the high and low,

[Legacy555]

I've not had any such thoughts Will - but clearly you have:lol:

TBH, I'm just happy to drive it as it is right now.

I'd never say never - but I don't think I'll be trying it just yet.

Yeah, the wait for the new kit is putting the brain into a spin :drool:
Really looking forward to getting my hands on the 22.
The RCracer mag feature has me counting the minutes till delivery :thumbsup:

[telboy]

I may run mine at Ardent, but not sure.
Only have the kit stuff to work with so not really a good place to run it without options to change set up dramatically.

[reg]

I may run mine at Ardent, but not sure.
Only have the kit stuff to work with so not really a good place to run it without options to change set up dramatically.


i might be running mine in the finals:woot:

[Gnarly Old Dog]

thanks Gnarly Old Dog,will the average joe notice a difference between the high and low,

Again, tricky to quantify. In testing around Eden Park, both David and I felt the HRC blocks were advantageous and would help keep the car more consistent. Obviousy David is far from being 'average' but even I could notice it so I guess, yes - for our tracks and surfaces, the HRC blocks will prove to be faster.

That said, the difference is subtle and if you never drove both conditions, you would develop a set up that works for you and your driving style but having driven both, HRC gets the nod from me for over here at least.

[stegger]

Maybe a stupid question, HRC block ?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Maybe a stupid question, HRC block ?

HRC = High Roll Centre

Similar effect as what we've always been doing in the past with putting washers under the old toe-blocks on the various incarnations of the XX, XX4 and XXX platforms.
We appear to like having a higher rear pin than the US guys do.

HTH

[PaulUpton]

My top tip is get someone else to do the turnbuckles or your fingers will hurt :( Ive stopped at bag c for the night, and still got 2 more cars to build :thumbsup:

[Razer]

HRC = High Roll Centre

Similar effect as what we've always been doing in the past with putting washers under the old toe-blocks on the various incarnations of the XX, XX4 and XXX platforms.
We appear to like having a higher rear pin than the US guys do.

HTH

With the high grip astro, that surpriced me a bit, but I guess there isn't a major height difference?

[RDG 40]

just curious on the rear hub position? it looks very like the CR hub tbh

Its mentioned in set up you run 100g + in weight i notice 72g is max available will be suffiecient?

also gearing pinion?

Many thanks some cracking advice mateyand very quick so builds can now be tailored to this its very appreciated

[racingdwarf]

very handy info / tips to have. Thanks
Do you have any setup advice for running the 22 rear motored? I plan to be different to everybody else in the uk and try it this way round first.
Time will tell if im doing right or not


Your not alone, I will first run mine rear motor as our club track is grass and dirt, and quite low on consistant grip,tends to lend it's self more to rear motor....cougar hated it anyway:lol: but there is a vega running there that seems ok to be fair to it, but it seems to me mid motor works best when the grip is good and consistant throughout the whole lap...astro,yuk:D

[Gnarly Old Dog]

With the high grip astro, that surpriced me a bit, but I guess there isn't a major height difference?

I believe the difference is about 1mm.

How it felt on the track was that the HRC car felt less likely to dump itself over on the outer wheel at high speed on the limit - the EPR raceway corner best illustrated this - with the HRC block, the car would drive into the corner and you could power through but with the LRC block, you had to be more cautious else it would dump the rear end part way through the corner when it tried to break away.
Not on every lap but enough to make you feel a little less committed as you approached it for the next lap.

I believe the LRC blocks will grip harder initially but the HRC block tends to make the car more consistent - possibly with a little less grip overall.


RDG40: As for the weight plates - I believe Rudebits do a 102g plate but Tony would need to confirm - certainly mine came from him but I don't know if he still does it or not? TBH, the great thing about all of Tony's LiPo plates is that they're easy to swap in and out so you can tailor the amount of weight you want without drastically affecting the front/rear balance. 102g might have been overkill - but the 74g would be an awesome starting point (along with TLR4151 on the gearbox)

Whilst on the subject of weight, The Rudebits sidepod weights will be awesome. Another quirk of off-road for me is that whilst the trend for narrow cars continues, sometimes just adding a bit of weight outboard can help an average Joe like me go faster due to increased consistency. These pod weights will put a similar level of weight to the lighter Rude plate further outboard which could very well suit our types of tracks and help to slow the initial reaction of the car when settling over bumps and ruts.

[Razer]

I believe the difference is about 1mm.

How it felt on the track was that the HRC car felt less likely to dump itself over on the outer wheel at high speed on the limit - the EPR raceway corner best illustrated this - with the HRC block, the car would drive into the corner and you could power through but with the LRC block, you had to be more cautious else it would dump the rear end part way through the corner when it tried to break away.
Not on every lap but enough to make you feel a little less committed as you approached it for the next lap.

I believe the LRC blocks will grip harder initially but the HRC block tends to make the car more consistent - possibly with a little less grip overall.


A higher roll center mount will make the rear end roll less, add more pressure to the wheel instead of the suspension absorbing all force. On a high grip surface that means initial response is very good, and the grip could feel better until the point where it will snap away a bit easier than a low roll center that has a bit more give, and should be smoother.

When it's only talk of 1mm, it's less than what we modded on the CR. When you wrote high and low, I was thinking something like on the XXX-S touring car, where it was 3-4mm difference between the high and low; VEEEERY noticeable that one...

Regarding that last point, I don't think the LRC will grip harder, but the rear end should feel a bit softer, and roll deeper.

But then again, you're the one who's actually tested this stuff:cry:

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Hey Martin, you've got me here :woot:
I'm just trying to convey what it felt like when I was driving it - your understanding of the dynamics behind it blows me away - respect to you.

All I can say is that it was more consistent - for whatever reason - with the HRC block - but the difference wasn't massive like the XXX-S you mention - but both David and I felt the same and when we went back to the HRC block, things just felt nicer again.
May have been a variety of reasons - but the consensus for us was that consistency was improved with the HRC block.

[Buggy Driver]

Does the kit come with any antisquat shims? Or do you need to get the antisquat set?
And which and how many pistons are included?

As it seems Losi´s own 22 servo saver set was discontinued. Can you use any other external servo saver? Which one is good and will fit?

[Dave Dodd]

i might be running mine in the finals:woot:

I take it you've been Losified :lol:

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Does the kit come with any antisquat shims? Or do you need to get the antisquat set?
And which and how many pistons are included?

As it seems Losi´s own 22 servo saver set was discontinued. Can you use any other external servo saver? Which one is good and will fit?

You get a full set of 4 hole pistons in the kit - 56, 55 and 54 hole and you get a full anti squat shim kit for the Low Roll Centre blocks. The spare parts are in the F-bag in the kit box I believe - although I haven't yet got that far myself:blush:

If you choose to run a HRC block, you will need a corresponding HRC squat shim kit (TLR2045)

As for servo saver, I'm sorry but I don't know what other type would fit. You might get a small kimbro under the bulkhead and you might need to trim the width of the top of the servo saver to get enough clearance with the bulkhead under lock - but this is not something we've tried (sorry)

[pugboy]

You get a full set of 4 hole pistons in the kit - 56, 55 and 54 hole and you get a full anti squat shim kit for the Low Roll Centre blocks. The spare parts are in the F-bag in the kit box I believe - although I haven't yet got that far myself:blush:

If you choose to run a HRC block, you will need a corresponding HRC squat shim kit (TLR2045)

As for servo saver, I'm sorry but I don't know what other type would fit. You might get a small kimbro under the bulkhead and you might need to trim the width of the top of the servo saver to get enough clearance with the bulkhead under lock - but this is not something we've tried (sorry)

All looks a bit tight for Kimbro type but there is always the xx4 type, ie bendy servo horn if it is too tight and you want to run something. Funnily enough just saw something on Youtube of one of the US Losi boys pulling out of a race with the 22 because the servo horn stripped...

[frogger]

Any recommendations on a starting point for pinion size for indoor carpet and a Novak Ballistic 6.5 motor?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Any recommendations on a starting point for pinion size for indoor carpet and a Novak Ballistic 6.5 motor?

I would start off with a 19/76 or 20/76 - depending on ESC settings and size of hall

If your ESC can boost timing then you might want to drop even further.

Some motors appear to like being geared higher than others but I think this also has alot to do with the ESC being used. I have no experience with the Novak equipment I'm afraid but the internal ratio of the 22 is 2.43:1 - just like the old XXX-CR - so I would gear it similarly to whatever you would normally run at to achieve the same overall ratio.

[stall4king]

Er!-Remove the protective film from the wing before spraying-it's on the underside of the wing!!-Don't ask how I know this!!Happy building!!

[stall4king]

Er2!!-Window masks must be right first time..If it's peeled off and re-positioned then the 1st spray coat will buckle them..Don't ask how I know this!! Carry on!!

[Delves]

My top tip is get someone else to do the turnbuckles or your fingers will hurt :( Ive stopped at bag c for the night, and still got 2 more cars to build :thumbsup:

I agree 100% with you Paul! My fingers are aching from building my wagon today... Just got the shocks to go then an electronics install :thumbsup:

[reg]

I agree 100% with you Paul! My fingers are aching from building my wagon today... Just got the shocks to go then an electronics install :thumbsup:


i used a screw the same size as the turnbuckle and some shock oil to do the normal thread:thumbsup:iv only got3 blisters:woot:

[reg]

could we have a shock filling prosses and bleeding guide,full rebound half or none.........ppwweeezzzz:thumbsup:

[Kit Jones]

If you use a reamer to create a slight taper on the ball cup then it makes building the turnbuckles much easier (and less painful) but sounds like its a bit late now...

[RookieBOB]

Is there any compatibility with other brands, or should i change all my AE wheels ?
Thks !

[Delves]

If you use a reamer to create a slight taper on the ball cup then it makes building the turnbuckles much easier (and less painful) but sounds like its a bit late now...

Hi Kit,the advise made it to me through Andy so not too late at all :woot:

[Delves]

Is there any compatibility with other brands, or should i change all my AE wheels ?
Thks !

As far as I'm aware you will need to swap over to the new TLR wheels as it is all hex drive now rather than pin.

[/tobys]

Do Kyosho wheels fit the 22?

[RookieBOB]

As far as I'm aware you will need to swap over to the new TLR wheels as it is all hex drive now rather than pin.

Losi's front wheels seem to be wide...Have you some tips to fit schum staggered on them?

[PaulUpton]

I agree 100% with you Paul! My fingers are aching from building my wagon today... Just got the shocks to go then an electronics install :thumbsup:

I've had 3 to build, done 2 of them hands are feeling it. Going to get a little mini drill tomorrow, hopefully one the ball joints will fit into swell to screw them onto the turnbuckles :thumbsup:

[Chris56]

Got the chassis built.
How are people doing the electrics? Theres plenty of room for the esc behind the servo but not quite enough for the receiver too (even sideways).

[Matt-h]

Has anyone found white stress marks on the lexan shells?

Both kits have the same marks, so doesnt seem a one off

Matt

[raymondkerr]

I was surprised to see that the shell is pre cut. I would say mines looks a little rough around the edges. Theres sort of yellowish marks around the edges of the shell where it has been cut, some of the overspray where it looks like scissor marks have been made when cutting round tight areas. Apart from that i think the shell should be ok. Just looks slightly weird coming out of a kit like that.

[Chris56]

Mines a little rough around the edges, but should be ok once painted. That and the protective film on the wrong side of the wing are my only niggles

[D20MCK]

The shell has been cut out with a hot wire not scissors

[frogger]

Pretty damn good if the only niggles are a shell with a few rough edges! :thumbsup:

[Chris56]

Sure thing - theres no obvious weak points in the construction, can't wait to put my 6.5 in it and get it on the track :woot::woot::woot:

[Matt-h]

ok, peeled a little of the film off and its the film not the body that has the white marks

[wrightcs77]

Can someone post the length from just under the front bumper to the end of the chassis? I have teflon chassis tape and want to know if it is long enough.

Thanks

[Buggy Driver]

You get a full set of 4 hole pistons in the kit - 56, 55 and 54 hole and you get a full anti squat shim kit for the Low Roll Centre blocks. The spare parts are in the F-bag in the kit box I believe - although I haven't yet got that far myself:blush:

If you choose to run a HRC block, you will need a corresponding HRC squat shim kit (TLR2045)

As for servo saver, I'm sorry but I don't know what other type would fit. You might get a small kimbro under the bulkhead and you might need to trim the width of the top of the servo saver to get enough clearance with the bulkhead under lock - but this is not something we've tried (sorry)

Cheers. What is actually the difference between changing this H/LRC block and altering the roll center with washers under the ball studs?

And you stated a .05 wrench will do the job. Before release a 1.5mm wrench was said to be needed. Would one of them fit better?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Can someone post the length from just under the front bumper to the end of the chassis? I have teflon chassis tape and want to know if it is long enough.

Thanks

From the edge of the kick up to the back of the transmission, the chassis measures approx 280mm

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Cheers. What is actually the difference between changing this H/LRC block and altering the roll center with washers under the ball studs?

Like I said to Razer, the theory behind it all sometimes goes beyond me - all I know is that it felt nicer to drive and was more consistent. You may be able to achieve a similar roll stiffness by altering the washers on the outer and inner ball studs but I don't know (sorry)

And you stated a .05 wrench will do the job. Before release a 1.5mm wrench was said to be needed. Would one of them fit better?
The 1.5mm wrench would be for the pinion.
The 0.05 wrench would be used for the small c'sk screw that locates the rear toe block and holds it in-situ before the gearbox screws are tightened down fully.

Both the 1.5 and 0.05 wrenches will do different tasks - you risk damaging the screw if you try to use the wrong sized hex wrench.

[Buggy Driver]

Like I said to Razer, the theory behind it all sometimes goes beyond me - all I know is that it felt nicer to drive and was more consistent. You may be able to achieve a similar roll stiffness by altering the washers on the outer and inner ball studs but I don't know (sorry)


The 1.5mm wrench would be for the pinion.
The 0.05 wrench would be used for the small c'sk screw that locates the rear toe block and holds it in-situ before the gearbox screws are tightened down fully.

Both the 1.5 and 0.05 wrenches will do different tasks - you risk damaging the screw if you try to use the wrong sized hex wrench.

Okay, thanks.

[Delves]

Losi's front wheels seem to be wide...Have you some tips to fit schum staggered on them?

Hi, the wheels aren't wider. As far as I understand they are exactly the same dimensions as the XXX wheels. I think they look wider because the tyres the car was photo'd with are rather large to start with.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Losi's front wheels seem to be wide...Have you some tips to fit schum staggered on them?

I've never mounted up a set of staggers but I understand the wheel bead to be the same as the old XXX front wheel.
I tend to run mini spikes onthe front of mine and just cut an outer row off if required. I know Staggers work well on some cars and for some drivers but personally, I've never gotten on well with them myself.

I know the wheel looks wide on lots of the launch promo photos - mainly because of the tyre choice and the fact that the wheel is now slightly convex in profile - but whatever you did before with XXX size front wheels will work for the 22 I'm sure.

[frogger]

Is there a starting setup for mid motor, carpet indoors?

[RDG 40]

anyone know the servo spacing for savox??? 1251 model?

Russ

[Delves]

anyone know the servo spacing for savox??? 1251 model?

Russ

I think it's 2.5mm, hope that helps.

[Ben Turner]

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/setuptwentytwo/22_DarrenBloomfield_Taplow20101212.pdf

This is what I will be using as a starting point!
Is there a starting setup for mid motor, carpet indoors?

[frogger]

Cheers Ben. :thumbsup:

[RDG 40]

I think it's 2.5mm, hope that helps.

cheers buddy!

[Chris56]

Im using 2.5mm and there is good free movement. (also brings the servo forward more so there is more space for esc)

[Ben Turner]

Mines just arrived! (oh the perks of not working fridays :lol:)

Thanks to Mb models for putting up with all of my pestering emails, and replying to every single one of them, keeping me in the loop!

[Aran]

just got mine from ups, loving the chassis, look amazing piece of kit can't wait to build it!

[RDG 40]

has anyone else noticed the mistake when building the rear hub assembly?

it staes 2973 for the part inbetween the two bearings yet 2973 again for the outer recessed spacer

[reg]

has anyone else noticed the mistake when building the rear hub assembly?

it staes 2973 for the part inbetween the two bearings yet 2973 again for the outer recessed spacer

i think people would stuggle to put them in the wrong place:woot:is everyone drilling the pistons out or are you running as kit

[Tom3012]

Drilled some pistons out 54 and 56, both so they now have 6 holes... Trial and error :lol:

[Chris56]

i think people would stuggle to put them in the wrong place:woot:is everyone drilling the pistons out or are you running as kit

I didn't even look at the part numbers:woot: Im just leaving the pistons as kit for now

[reg]

Drilled some pistons out 54 and 56, both so they now have 6 holes... Trial and error :lol:


iv build mine std and they feel dead as a dead thing,they do seem to have to much pack,54 35wt losi rear and 55 27.5 losi front

[Ross]

Guys, how tight are you doing the slipper up, I've done mine so the thread is flush with the end of the shaft , but a mate has done his all the way up ?

Ross

[Buggy Driver]

All looks a bit tight for Kimbro type but there is always the xx4 type, ie bendy servo horn if it is too tight and you want to run something. Funnily enough just saw something on Youtube of one of the US Losi boys pulling out of a race with the 22 because the servo horn stripped...


Has anyone a part number for this XX4 servo horn for KO Propo servos?

[stegger]

Guys, how tight are you doing the slipper up, I've done mine so the thread is flush with the end of the shaft , but a mate has done his all the way up ?

Ross

Adjust it to the track , let it slip for a couple of feet. Make sure your diff is set correctly first though and with it being new adjust it after you have run it ;)

[reg]

Guys, how tight are you doing the slipper up, I've done mine so the thread is flush with the end of the shaft , but a mate has done his all the way up ?

Ross
you will need to do it tighter than that,iv got about 5mm showing:thumbsup:

[sunbeam]

Losi 22, what a heap of crap !!

Where the hell are you meant to put your electrics ??????????

I can't even fit my Tekin RS on the ESC plate !!!!!!!! and thats a small ESC !!!!!!!!!!!

Now the RX has to go over the motor and all the wires that run from the ESC to the motor have to be bunched up with the motor wires, ESC RX wire and arial !!!!

Just crap.

Does anybody want to buy my car? I've only built it, nothing else at all £175

[DCM]

I would be tempted Rob ;)

[sunbeam]

SOLD !!

[DCM]

Will B4 wheels fit on the rear without the hex?

[ianjoyner]

Anyone find the front spindle carrier binds slightly on the hinge screws, and the suspension isn't quite free? The inside of the wishbone is free, but the outside just binds slightly, so it won't drop under it's own weight. The rear is great very little play and free.

Careful not to over tighten the diff, attempting to follow tha manual's tighten it all the way down instruction I managed to get the nut to spin in the holder.

[learnerdriver]

Will B4 wheels fit on the rear without the hex?

yes, if you drill them out to 5mm ! :blush:

4wd front wheels are also a straight fit on the front :thumbsup:

[reg]

i think the holes in the hub need to be opend up a small amount,i think its because its held in with two different screws,they need to line up perfectly,to be free,just make sure you dont open them up to much else they will slop around,just make sure you dont do the the arms the screws go through:woot:

[learnerdriver]

Losi 22, what a heap of crap !!

Where the hell are you meant to put your electrics ??????????

I can't even fit my Tekin RS on the ESC plate !!!!!!!! and thats a small ESC !!!!!!!!!!!

Now the RX has to go over the motor and all the wires that run from the ESC to the motor have to be bunched up with the motor wires, ESC RX wire and arial !!!!

Just crap.

Does anybody want to buy my car? I've only built it, nothing else at all £175

were you running a full size servo ?

[reg]

i fitten mine with a full size servo and a 2007 lrp sphere:woot:it is tight but hay ho the car is great:thumbsup:

[Ross]

Adjust it to the track , let it slip for a couple of feet. Make sure your diff is set correctly first though and with it being new adjust it after you have run it ;)

you will need to do it tighter than that,iv got about 5mm showing:thumbsup:


Thanks guys, i'll do both, thighten it up abit, and adjust at the track :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Ross

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Anyone find the front spindle carrier binds slightly on the hinge screws, and the suspension isn't quite free? The inside of the wishbone is free, but the outside just binds slightly, so it won't drop under it's own weight. The rear is great very little play and free.

Yup - I found that also. I put it down to the black coating on the king pin screws - but also, like Reg has said, you could carefully open up the holes a smidge.
I ended up taking the coating off the screws with a piece of 600grit wet'n'dry - just so they'd drop a bit easier under their own weight.

[OldTimer]

If anyone is unsure on filling and setting up there shocks as there is no detail in the manual, i found this from the Losi 8 manual spot on as the shock design is the same.

Ensure the Shaft is fully extended when filling the shock.

Fill the Shock Body with ??wt. Shock Oil until the Oil is to the top of the Body.

“Work” the Shock Shaft up and down a times. This will release the air bubbles trapped beneath the Piston. Place the filled Shock, in the upright position, off to the side for a few minutes until the air bubbles escape from the Oil.

Once all the air bubbles are out of the Oil, gently place the Shock Bladder onto the Shock as shown. Some Oil should “bleed” from the Shock.

Screw the Shock Cap onto the Body until some resistance is felt.

Slowly push the Shock Shaft up. This will bleed excess Oil from the Shock.

Tighten the cap all the way down using the shock tools included in your kit.

Move the Shock Shaft up and down. The Shaft should be easy to push up into the Body of the Shock. If increased pressure is felt towards the top, there is to much oil in the Shock. Loosen the Shock Cap and “bleed” the Shock as done previously.

[Bob_Zahn]

Here in Ontario Canada we have a number of indoor offroad tracks that have carpet surface with wood jumps.

I was prepared to buy the new Xcelorin 96mm stubby battery for my 22 but they are currently on backorder with Horizon USA so I'm now considering the Xcelorin saddle pack battery. The more I read about your success with running more weight in the car makes me more inclined to buy the heavier saddle pack batteries now. Any recommendations on this train of thought. I realize with the smaller 96mm battery I will have more options to add or reduce weight as needed but if you are adding 150+ grams of weight to the car with the heavier saddle packs batteries that would require me to add 250+ grams to the car if I'm using the lighter 96mm battery.

Thoughts?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Here in Ontario Canada we have a number of indoor offroad tracks that have carpet surface with wood jumps.

I was prepared to buy the new Xcelorin 96mm stubby battery for my 22 but they are currently on backorder with Horizon USA so I'm now considering the Xcelorin saddle pack battery. The more I read about your success with running more weight in the car makes me more inclined to buy the heavier saddle pack batteries now. Any recommendations on this train of thought. I realize with the smaller 96mm battery I will have more options to add or reduce weight as needed but if you are adding 150+ grams of weight to the car with the heavier saddle packs batteries that would require me to add 250+ grams to the car if I'm using the lighter 96mm battery.

Thoughts?


Spot on thinking ;)

I think the combination of the TLR4151 mid car weight system combined with some Rudebits under-Lipo weights and/or their new side pod weights will really suit your surface and conditions - assuming you're going to build it in mid config of course.

We have been adding 75-100g under saddle LiPos in testing (our Saddles weighed 300g) so off course, with the small lipo we'll be looking to add further ballast as the grip comes up.

We were running at approx 1700 - 1750g in testing and given that the car can be built to run at 1500g with no weight and the stubby Lipo, that probably gives you an indication of how much we've been adding in total.
Hope this helps

[jimmy]

I used some Tamiya 800 grit paper and 12000 grit cloth to polish the kingpins a little - made things a lot better.
Only problem so far was one of the 6mm screws in the first stage was made wrongly and I had to source another.
So far its looking pretty good
Are these inner front hinge pins steel?

[jimmy]

Ok, what's going on here :cry:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/misc/22-servohorn.jpg

[Chopster]

Ok, what's going on here :cry:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/misc/22-servohorn.jpg

You've taken an 'arty' black and white photo?

Seriously, think I read that this can happen, just use a dremel to sand off the underside of the support... mine seems ok, think it depends on what servo you are using?

[Bob_Zahn]

Spot on thinking ;)

I think the combination of the TLR4151 mid car weight system combined with some Rudebits under-Lipo weights and/or their new side pod weights will really suit your surface and conditions - assuming you're going to build it in mid config of course.

We have been adding 75-100g under saddle LiPos in testing (our Saddles weighed 300g) so off course, with the small lipo we'll be looking to add further ballast as the grip comes up.

We were running at approx 1700 - 1750g in testing and given that the car can be built to run at 1500g with no weight and the stubby Lipo, that probably gives you an indication of how much we've been adding in total.
Hope this helps

Thanks for the quick reply. I will look for some saddle packs for now and I can always buy the 96mm down the road if I need it for other tracks or surfaces. I do plan to build my car mid motor. I checked on the status of the weight kit from TLR and Horizon USA is saying availabilty in July!:cry:

I can add regular square lead weights on the transmission. Do you have a picture of where they are installed? I also have a source for some thin brass weights for the battery tray an will look for something in the range you provided. The track I'm starting on is on the smaller side so it should be more manageable to get the car to handle than if the track was big and open.

[reg]

Ok, what's going on here :cry:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/misc/22-servohorn.jpg

looks like you might not have the servo right down on the servo mount,or you need more spacers on the servo,my screw was the same,the one that goes into the posh new steering thing

[OldTimer]

Mine was the same with a savox servo, i just removed a bit of material from under the support, also used 3mm of spacers to make all the links parallel.

[jimmy]

Ok I've fixed it now, I shaved some off the bulkhead and probably too much off the ballcup (watch it break as soon as I drive it) oh well - it was pretty smooth until that:(

Servo is flat to the bottom and I've got the manual suggested shims - but the link is too high anyway, wouldn't matter how far forward/back the servo was, it will always hit the bulkhead. (well, until I've shaved lots off)

[DCM]

Anyone have a Rear motor setup? Don't want to have to buy saddle packs.

Cheers!

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Ok I've fixed it now, I shaved some off the bulkhead and probably too much off the ballcup (watch it break as soon as I drive it) oh well - it was pretty smooth until that:(

Servo is flat to the bottom and I've got the manual suggested shims - but the link is too high anyway, wouldn't matter how far forward/back the servo was, it will always hit the bulkhead. (well, until I've shaved lots off)

I think the problem lays with the ball cup. Certainly the supplied one can be problematic with hitting the servo case with a Spektrum S6070.
I used Losi JRXS ball cup LOSA6017 which is a lot lower profile and it just clears the underside of the bulkhead without having to dremel anything.

Famous last words Jimmy but don't worry too much about the strength of the front bulkhead - I did dremel lots off on the prototype and I hit some things pretty hard without any problems:thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for the Front hinge pins - sorry but I'm not sure of the actual material - just that they are Ti Nitrate coated I believe.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Anyone have a Rear motor setup? Don't want to have to buy saddle packs.

Cheers!

Sorry DCM - the only times I ran the rear car, it was pretty much just with my mid car shocks - I did run a Silver front spring instead of the greens that I normally ran with the mid car but I also ran the same white rear springs.

Roll centres I didn't mess with - but for the record, I ran in position 1 on the front inner (long link) and position 2 (outer) on the rear so it was short. I also moved the rear outer ball stud on the hub in one row to the outer hole in the middle row (if that makes sense)

I'd start with 4 hole 55 front pistons with kit oil (27.5wt) and go to 6 hole 55s in the rear with 30wt.

Never got the chance to play with 4 hole pistons but I think they'll be good in the front for sure - not maybe the ticket for our tracks in the rear though but I do hope to get to play with them at a later date.

Rear car was totally sweet to drive - super lush over the bumps and during the test, I managed a lap that was only 0.3s slower than my fastest with the mid car that we had done hundreds of laps with - so a promising start for sure.

HTH

[Bob_Zahn]

Your setup sheet has lighter oil (25wt) in the front when using 6 hole pistons and 27.5wt with 4 hole pistons. I think i know the answer on why but could you humour me with your explanation?

[PaulUpton]

Another thing to watch for, shock collars, screwed mine on, came to adjust them and they have gone solid, couldn't move them at all, all solved with a spray of motor cleaner, just a strange one :confused:

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Your setup sheet has lighter oil (25wt) in the front when using 6 hole pistons and 27.5wt with 4 hole pistons. I think i know the answer on why but could you humour me with your explanation?

The 6 hole pistons we used were 56s - the 4 hole I'd suggest with 27.5wt would be the 55s.
The reason being is that upon reflection, I'd say now that we needed to go up in pack on the front end from where we were during testing because the car could become a little grabby on the front end on indoor carpet when the grip comes up. Our initial testing was outdoors during the winter when grip was generally lower - I think 4 hole 56s would be too much pack for our circuits over here but the 55s would possibly give a good starting point and give you the option of going further up in pack if needed or down in pack if you needed the front end to work a bit more actively over ruts and bumps.

To be honest - I think we achieved a pretty reasonable 'starting' set up for the mid car during our testing but I'm sure that now the car is out, people will develop it and hone the set up and go faster - I'd not say we were perfect but we ended up with a very consistent and balanced car that as easy to drive.

Was that the answer you were expecting?

[Bob_Zahn]

The 6 hole pistons we used were 56s - the 4 hole I'd suggest with 27.5wt would be the 55s.
The reason being is that upon reflection, I'd say now that we needed to go up in pack on the front end from where we were during testing because the car could become a little grabby on the front end on indoor carpet when the grip comes up. Our initial testing was outdoors during the winter when grip was generally lower - I think 4 hole 56s would be too much pack for our circuits over here but the 55s would possibly give a good starting point and give you the option of going further up in pack if needed or down in pack if you needed the front end to work a bit more actively over ruts and bumps.

To be honest - I think we achieved a pretty reasonable 'starting' set up for the mid car during our testing but I'm sure that now the car is out, people will develop it and hone the set up and go faster - I'd not say we were perfect but we ended up with a very consistent and balanced car that as easy to drive.

Was that the answer you were expecting?

Yes the reason behind running a smaller or bigger hole piston makes sense. But the suggested setup you included on the first page has 6 x 56 pistons with 25 wt or 4 x 56 with 27.5 wt.

If the piston hole stays the same size but there are fewer holes I would expect to need lighter oil to keep the dampening the same.

[Bratpack]

Anyone struggling to get pin (2974) through the drive shaft?

[RDG 40]

jus check ur using the right one and not the drive hex pin?

[Ross]

Anyone struggling to get pin (2974) through the drive shaft?

Squeeze the end of it with some pliers, only a little

[Kit Jones]

These roll pins are meant to be tight so that they wont fall out, but if you have trouble fitting it then squeeze one end of the pin gently with pliers to close it up slightly. The end that you have compressed will then fit in and make it much easier to push the pin through the rest of the way with pliers.

[jampat2004]

SOLD !!
what a dick.....

[Bratpack]

These roll pins are meant to be tight so that they wont fall out, but if you have trouble fitting it then squeeze one end of the pin gently with pliers to close it up slightly. The end that you have compressed will then fit in and make it much easier to push the pin through the rest of the way with pliers.

Cheers!!

[Ross]

Losi 22, what a heap of crap !!

Where the hell are you meant to put your electrics ??????????

I can't even fit my Tekin RS on the ESC plate !!!!!!!! and thats a small ESC !!!!!!!!!!!

Now the RX has to go over the motor and all the wires that run from the ESC to the motor have to be bunched up with the motor wires, ESC RX wire and arial !!!!

Just crap.

Does anybody want to buy my car? I've only built it, nothing else at all £175


You should have stuck with it fella, ive fitted a Tekin in mine :thumbsup:

[DCM]

Pic please, of the Tekin instal?

[Chris56]

Pic please, of the Tekin instal?

Post 37 of the "show us your TLR 22" thread - looks tight but can be done :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Ross]

Pic please, of the Tekin instal?

here ya go


http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/IMG7740/1221380998_FdEt8-M.jpg (http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/11939130_tzZiU#1221380998_FdEt8-A-LB)
http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/IMG7743/1221381020_UR6Yw-M.jpg (http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/11939130_tzZiU#1221381020_UR6Yw-A-LB)
http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/IMG7744/1221381001_wZC3G-M.jpg (http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/11939130_tzZiU#1221381001_wZC3G-A-LB)
http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/IMG7745/1221381069_S75LX-M.jpg (http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/11939130_tzZiU#1221381069_S75LX-A-LB)
http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/IMG7741/1221380880_VLqEa-M.jpg (http://www.rosswhitelock-photography.co.uk/Other/Mugen-parts/11939130_tzZiU#1221380880_VLqEa-A-LB)

[DCM]

Snug!!

[Ross]

Snug!!



Very LOL

[RDG 40]

pesonally in the pic above im gona mount my receiver the same but remove the one leg of battery support to allow for extra room as in saddle formation the legs do not have a use

Russ

[Ross]

pesonally in the pic above im gona mount my receiver the same but remove the one leg of battery support to allow for extra room as in saddle formation the legs do not have a use

Russ


I think that's a good idea. I'll use mine a few times and then redo :)

[mes]

I think have the same servo (1251?), transponder and esc ready for installation. I'll probably switch the position of RX and speedo so that I don't have to route the antenna near the power cables. I hope the Sanwa 451 will fit in properly between the servo and the saddle packs.

[jampat2004]

hi can anyone tell me please which numbered servo horn do i use on a new slim savox 1251 and how many servo spacers are needed,cause the servo horns seem very tight to fit and dont want to force one on
thanks

[mes]

Use the Futaba servo horn and the Spektrum spacers. The 1251 is identical to the Spektrum low profile servo.

[Timee80]

its the 25t horn mate. Mine was stiff on too. I had to shave the rear of the ball cup that attaches to the horn to get full lock both ways. Do this first!

[ianjoyner]

In the base UK setup on PetitRC I don't think it shows the camber link position and spacers on the rear hub. Have you got this Andy?

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/setuptwentytwo/22_TeamUK_Astroturf-Multisurface/index.html

[jampat2004]

its the 25t horn mate. Mine was stiff on too. I had to shave the rear of the ball cup that attaches to the horn to get full lock both ways. Do this first!
thanks for replys guys.:thumbsup:

[telboy]

pesonally in the pic above im gona mount my receiver the same but remove the one leg of battery support to allow for extra room as in saddle formation the legs do not have a use

Russ

Just take the battery support out all together, and but the speedo up to the cells. this will stop them from moving...not that they do anyway. :)

[Chris56]

What pinion gear would you recommend as a starting point for a 6.5? Track is large open carpet, mostly small jumps.

[Kit Jones]

Simon and I ran our 22s at Stotfold today and finished 2nd (Simon) and 4th. I have had limited running time but my setup is attached for anyone wanting a starting setup.

The car was very good in the end and was well balanced, it just requires some more damper tuning and could do with a bit more grip all round.

I know my hand writing is bad so let me know if you have any questions.

[telboy]

Around a 19t. I ran an 18t at ardent today, and it never reached top speed....these things are rapid!:drool:

[Bob_Zahn]

Simon and I ran our 22s at Stotfold today and finished 2nd (Simon) and 4th. I have had limited running time but my setup is attached for anyone wanting a starting setup.

The car was very good in the end and was well balanced, it just requires some more damper tuning and could do with a bit more grip all round.

I know my hand writing is bad so let me know if you have any questions.

Good idea with cutting the coils on the front springs to stiffen them. Why did you start with 6 hole pistons instead of using the stock 4 hole pistons?

[pugboy]

Two minor issues still to resolve, both steering related..

I found there was some resistance between the two parts of the steering rack mouldings over part of the travel... Did anyone else find this? It's a bit difficult to know where/if to try and dremel it cause it's hard to tell where it is binding. I didn't notice any burrs.

The other one is the one Jimmy and others mentioned, with the ballcup fouling on the front of the servo near full right lock. Running Savox LP servo with 2.5mm spacers. I have done a little dremelling to the underside of the top brace to deal with the other ball joint but now the only coice seems to be find a small ballcup or dremel the existing ballcup or the servo.

There are lots of things to like and marvel at on this car but the steering could do with a little more flexibility in the design, the tolerances are just too tight/non existent.

[The Pookster]

I have found the Savox needs 0.5mm spacers at the most otherwise it fouls

[pugboy]

I have found the Savox needs 0.5mm spacers at the most otherwise it fouls

Cheers, I'll give that a go before I start dremelling any further!:thumbsup:

[Razer]

Like I said to Razer, the theory behind it all sometimes goes beyond me - all I know is that it felt nicer to drive and was more consistent. You may be able to achieve a similar roll stiffness by altering the washers on the outer and inner ball studs but I don't know (sorry)



A higher roll center could be compared to adding a antiroll bar, but without upsetting the car in the bumps. On a bumpy track with high grip, were you need a rollbar in the corners, but that makes you mess up in the bumpy sections, you could go for a higher rollcenter, and add a softer spring.

A higher roll center does take away some chassis roll, but it does not use the bar to keep the car flat by lifting the inside wheel, and it could cause traction rolling.

It is something that can make a big difference, and it's definitely worth testing it more!

[OldTimer]

Cheers, I'll give that a go before I start dremelling any further!:thumbsup:

I am using 3mm spacers with the savox lol. I would rather dremel and have all the servo links straight ;)

[Reevsey]

Based on now having had a look at a manual v the car i have been driving for a couple of months i would imagine some of you will have a car that feels a little light on the rear end for traction and has alot of front end traction.

Below are some key changes i would make from the set up in the manual which is aimed at an outboard car and will probably be giving you some issues with your inboard set up


Most peoples car i saw yesterday had the 20deg kick up plate fitted as per the kit, this gives alot of steering so i would suggest you all start with the 25 deg kick up!! makes the car more forgiving
Front camber link on the tower has a 2mm spacer, remove this and start without any washers, the 2mm makes the car hold onto the corner for to long, if you don't have enough steering then add small washers to build the height back up - This is a very big change for this car and it reacts to very small changes
Rear hub carriers has 1 washer under the ball stub on the hub, i would run 2 to 3 to generate more rear traction
Rear high roll centre is much better for us!
Rear link on tower has a 2mm spacer fitted, only remove this to generate chassis roll in low grip conditions, again a very sensitive adjustment on this car
I am using 6 hole pistons as that is what i started with back in November yet to try the 4 hole pistons
Hope that helps

Si

[OldTimer]

Any idea on oil and 6 hole pistons for somewhere like Coventry astro :drool: as 6 hole blue pistons with 32.5wt and yellow springs feels really soft at the back lol.

[Reevsey]

Any idea on oil and 6 hole pistons for somewhere like Coventry astro :drool: as 6 hole blue pistons with 32.5wt and yellow springs feels really soft at the back lol.

I would run your car as a starting point similar to the below which is how i finished yesterday

Front
Shocks 30w/6x56 piston/Green spring
Shock position - middle bone No2 tower

Rear
Shocks 25w/3x54 3x55 piston/White spring
Rear Shock length extended by unscrewing the shock end one and 1/2 turns for extra droop
Shock position - inside bone No2 tower

Hope that helps

[OldTimer]

I would run your car as a starting point similar to the below which is how i finished yesterday

Front
Shocks 30w/6x56 piston/Green spring
Shock position - middle bone No2 tower

Rear
Shocks 25w/3x54 3x55 piston/White spring
Rear Shock length extended by unscrewing the shock end one and 1/2 turns for extra droop
Shock position - inside bone No2 tower

Hope that helps

Bugger need to order white rear springs lol, thanks for the info simon :thumbsup: will give it a try.

[Reevsey]

Bugger need to order white rear springs lol, thanks for the info simon :thumbsup: will give it a try.

You might be ok with Yellow as i ran out of time to test a harder rear spring but it is something i want to try

[ianjoyner]

Based on now having had a look at a manual v the car i have been driving for a couple of months i would imagine some of you will have a car that feels a little light on the rear end for traction and has alot of front end traction.

Below are some key changes i would make from the set up in the manual which is aimed at an outboard car and will probably be giving you some issues with your inboard set up


Most peoples car i saw yesterday had the 20deg kick up plate fitted as per the kit, this gives alot of steering so i would suggest you all start with the 25 deg kick up!! makes the car more forgiving
Front camber link on the tower has a 2mm spacer, remove this and start without any washers, the 2mm makes the car hold onto the corner for to long, if you don't have enough steering then add small washers to build the height back up - This is a very big change for this car and it reacts to very small changes
Rear hub carriers has 1 washer under the ball stub on the hub, i would run 2 to 3 to generate more rear traction
Rear high roll centre is much better for us!
Rear link on tower has a 2mm spacer fitted, only remove this to generate chassis roll in low grip conditions, again a very sensitive adjustment on this car
I am using 6 hole pistons as that is what i started with back in November yet to try the 4 hole pistons
Hope that helps

Si

Thanks for the tips Si, on the rear ball studs, just wondering why add washers to the outside rather than take away the 2mm from the inside? Isn't that a similar effect?

[pugboy]

Based on now having had a look at a manual v the car i have been driving for a couple of months i would imagine some of you will have a car that feels a little light on the rear end for traction and has alot of front end traction.

Below are some key changes i would make from the set up in the manual which is aimed at an outboard car and will probably be giving you some issues with your inboard set up


Most peoples car i saw yesterday had the 20deg kick up plate fitted as per the kit, this gives alot of steering so i would suggest you all start with the 25 deg kick up!! makes the car more forgiving
Front camber link on the tower has a 2mm spacer, remove this and start without any washers, the 2mm makes the car hold onto the corner for to long, if you don't have enough steering then add small washers to build the height back up - This is a very big change for this car and it reacts to very small changes
Rear hub carriers has 1 washer under the ball stub on the hub, i would run 2 to 3 to generate more rear traction
Rear high roll centre is much better for us!
Rear link on tower has a 2mm spacer fitted, only remove this to generate chassis roll in low grip conditions, again a very sensitive adjustment on this car
I am using 6 hole pistons as that is what i started with back in November yet to try the 4 hole pistons
Hope that helps

Si

Cheers for the advice, I must admit I thought it a bit odd that is was same suggested start set up for rear and mid, I'll try it as you have suggested with the increased kick up and different camber link spacers. I'll maybe try leaving the 4 hole 55 pistons but with a firmer front spring as a starting point and see how it goes.

Old Timer...As for 3mm spacers with the Savox.... how have you managed that, got a close up pic?

Cheers

[reg]

Based on now having had a look at a manual v the car i have been driving for a couple of months i would imagine some of you will have a car that feels a little light on the rear end for traction and has alot of front end traction.

Below are some key changes i would make from the set up in the manual which is aimed at an outboard car and will probably be giving you some issues with your inboard set up


Most peoples car i saw yesterday had the 20deg kick up plate fitted as per the kit, this gives alot of steering so i would suggest you all start with the 25 deg kick up!! makes the car more forgiving
Front camber link on the tower has a 2mm spacer, remove this and start without any washers, the 2mm makes the car hold onto the corner for to long, if you don't have enough steering then add small washers to build the height back up - This is a very big change for this car and it reacts to very small changes
Rear hub carriers has 1 washer under the ball stub on the hub, i would run 2 to 3 to generate more rear traction
Rear high roll centre is much better for us!
Rear link on tower has a 2mm spacer fitted, only remove this to generate chassis roll in low grip conditions, again a very sensitive adjustment on this car
I am using 6 hole pistons as that is what i started with back in November yet to try the 4 hole pistons
Hope that helps

Si


some very helpfull info,does more kick up give more or less steering?i thought putting back the 2mm washer on the tower if you dont have enough with out them would give you less steering,wouldnt having a longer camberlink and a 2mm washer on the caster block give you more,
the only reason i say this is because i had a cougar,adding washers took away alot of the steering,i just thought i was getting the hang of this set up lark:woot:

[Thargor]

dam it looks tight in there... i want one of these, gonna have to buy some microscopic radiogear....

[Reevsey]

Thanks for the tips Si, on the rear ball studs, just wondering why add washers to the outside rather than take away the 2mm from the inside? Isn't that a similar effect?

It is a fair question to ask but if you lower the whole link at both ends so to speak you are doing 2 things, 1 you are changing your roll center and the 2nd you are changing the arch of your camber as your suspension compresses

Hope that helps

[Reevsey]

some very helpfull info,does more kick up give more or less steering?i thought putting back the 2mm washer on the tower if you dont have enough with out them would give you less steering,wouldnt having a longer camberlink and a 2mm washer on the caster block give you more,
the only reason i say this is because i had a cougar,adding washers took away alot of the steering,i just thought i was getting the hang of this set up lark:woot:

Hi Reg, on the front link as a rule

The lower you have the link on the tower the more initial turn in you should get so it will feel a little more twitchy but then you will loose grip through the middle and exit of the turn

The higher you have the link on the tower you will loose more initial turn so it is smoother and can feel like less steering but you then gain more grip through the middle and the exit of the turn.

So yesterday for example i saw a few 22's looking like they where light on rear traction and the issue was the front end holding onto the turn to long

let me know if that does not make sense

Cheers

[Reevsey]

some very helpfull info,does more kick up give more or less steering?i thought putting back the 2mm washer on the tower if you dont have enough with out them would give you less steering,wouldnt having a longer camberlink and a 2mm washer on the caster block give you more,
the only reason i say this is because i had a cougar,adding washers took away alot of the steering,i just thought i was getting the hang of this set up lark:woot:

Hi Reg

Giving the car more kick up is similar in the way it handles but not 100% the same as giving a car more caster so less kick up will make the car change direction faster where as more kick up will make the cars reaction slow down a little and make the car more forgiving to drive. If you try both back to back as it is only a quick change on the car you will be very supprised at the difference it makes to the way the car handles

Cheers

[cwp]

Can anyone explain to me how the camber links on the rear hub work?
Say what happens when there at the front of the hub or at the back the hub.:thumbsup:

Cheers
Mark

[ianjoyner]

It is a fair question to ask but if you lower the whole link at both ends so to speak you are doing 2 things, 1 you are changing your roll center and the 2nd you are changing the arch of your camber as your suspension compresses

Hope that helps

Hi Si, cheers, so having a few washers under each end is presumably a higher roll centre than no washers either end?

Ian

[ianjoyner]

Can anyone explain to me how the camber links on the rear hub work?
Say what happens when there at the front of the hub or at the back the hub.:thumbsup:

Cheers
Mark

My guess, but I'm happy to be corrected, is that the front holes on the hub are for rear motor, the rear holes on the hub are for mid motor (the inner ball stud is further back on mid motor) and the two middle holes are an inbetween setting of the 3 main holes for mid or rear motor.

[jimmy]

I thought the holes were like that so the hubs could be used on either side of the car, that's all.

[reg]

Thanks Si,it makes purfect sense:thumbsup:

[Reevsey]

Hi Si, cheers, so having a few washers under each end is presumably a higher roll centre than no washers either end?

Ian

That is the way i look at it but i could stand corrected.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

I thought the holes were like that so the hubs could be used on either side of the car, that's all.

Yup - it just so happens that you use the other rows on the rear config car - but Jimmy's explanation is AFAIK spot on

[Reevsey]

I thought the holes were like that so the hubs could be used on either side of the car, that's all.

You are correct Jimmy, the holes are there to be universal and as has been mentioned you may chose to run them in front or rear positions to straighten your camber links up on the car but i think there is another question be asked which is how does a long v short camber link position on the hub effect the car?

Shorter link will have more camber gain through compression of the suspension so this will give you more traction but will reach a point where the car then brakes away into a slide at this point the traction is lost very quickly and hard to recover with out spinning out. I shorter link will also be better through the bumps and has more chassis body roll

Longer link will have less camber gain through compression of the suspension so this will give less rear traction but the benefit is when the car slides it slides gradually and therefor is easier to catch, longer links make the car stiffer on chassis body roll so hence will not feel as good through the bumps.

Now last bit is the hole in the hub will also have an effect on the way the car enters the turn, i can't remeber which way but it will either enter the turn harder or not so guess i need to do some work to clarify that one

Si

[Kit Jones]

Good idea with cutting the coils on the front springs to stiffen them. Why did you start with 6 hole pistons instead of using the stock 4 hole pistons?


I ran the 4 hole pistons first but really struggled over the bumps as it was over damped. Stotfold is quite bumpy and it can make a big difference to lap times if the car can handle them without losing control. The 6 hole pistons just allowed the suspension to react quicker to the small bumps and therefore made the car easier to drive.

The negative of this is that the car will ground out quite easily over jumps. At Stotfold, the jumps have downramps so it is not too much of a problem but for elsewhere it may be necessary to run smaller holes in the pistons.

[jondell]

Kit, which sections of the track did you think the 4 hole was not so good? Far side middle loop? My car felt fine over bumps, but then I would not be going quite so fast.

Long link on rear was more consistent as simon explained. My tyres were shot by the final and I moved to a shorter link to try and help. It got snatchy out of corners and harder to drive. Less squat would have help as I was on 3deg. Probably why I was happy with it over bumps. Sooo much to try....

[jampat2004]

Two minor issues still to resolve, both steering related..

I found there was some resistance between the two parts of the steering rack mouldings over part of the travel... Did anyone else find this? It's a bit difficult to know where/if to try and dremel it cause it's hard to tell where it is binding. I didn't notice any burrs.

The other one is the one Jimmy and others mentioned, with the ballcup fouling on the front of the servo near full right lock. Running Savox LP servo with 2.5mm spacers. I have done a little dremelling to the underside of the top brace to deal with the other ball joint but now the only coice seems to be find a small ballcup or dremel the existing ballcup or the servo.

There are lots of things to like and marvel at on this car but the steering could do with a little more flexibility in the design, the tolerances are just too tight/non existent.
i also had the issue with binding on the steering rack there was a very small burr on the fixed part of the rack which i removed with a small needle file and is now free.
i am also using a 1251 low profile i found by just slightly altering the underside of the bulkhead ie removeing a bit of the plastic there was enough clearance for the servo horn and ball cup without having to alter the ball cup at all.

[DCM]

The manual is pants, I must admit.... Liking the car though

[frogger]

The manual is pants, I must admit.... Liking the car though

+1 they could do a better job of separating the rear and mid motor build steps. Also could do with a few more detailed descriptions when fitting parts that pertain to car setup.

Mine will get it's first run on Saturday at Ardent but so far the living room floor testing has been positive. :D

Also liking all the useful setup info on this thread by Old Dog, Reevsey and the rest. :)

[pugboy]

i also had the issue with binding on the steering rack there was a very small burr on the fixed part of the rack which i removed with a small needle file and is now free.
i am also using a 1251 low profile i found by just slightly altering the underside of the bulkhead ie removeing a bit of the plastic there was enough clearance for the servo horn and ball cup without having to alter the ball cup at all.

That's great thanks, I'll get the rack out and have a look. What spacers are you running on servo as mine hits the servo just before reaching full right lock. Could possibly unwind the servo link one or two turns and see if I can make it work that way.

Ditto previous comment, thanks everyone for all your comments and advice. Looks like losi forum is back buzzing again, long may it continue:thumbsup:

[DaveG28]

Gonna hijack this thread as all this camber link stuff is what I have been looking at on another car, hopefully these questions being answered will help people on here too!!

1. If you raise or lower both inner/outer camber links on front, keeping same angle but say moving the whole link higher, what effect does this have? Same question for the rear?

2. If you create a greater angle to the front camber link (either lower inner or raise outer), is it initial grip this helps or grip through the corner? Is it grippier but more on a knife edge? Again same question for the rear?

3. If after playing about with camber links you've introduced a tendency to roll if you land off jumps not totally flat (so a jump into a corner), what is the best way to offset this problem?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Now last bit is the hole in the hub will also have an effect on the way the car enters the turn, i can't remeber which way but it will either enter the turn harder or not so guess i need to do some work to clarify that one

Further out on the hub = more rotation - i.e it will feel like it is turning harder.
Moving the hub position inward will (IMO) give you more traction in the latter parts of the turn.

Worth playing with for sure:thumbsup:

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Gonna hijack this thread as all this camber link stuff is what I have been looking at on another car, hopefully these questions being answered will help people on here too!!

1. If you raise or lower both inner/outer camber links on front, keeping same angle but say moving the whole link higher, what effect does this have? Same question for the rear?

2. If you create a greater angle to the front camber link (either lower inner or raise outer), is it initial grip this helps or grip through the corner? Is it grippier but more on a knife edge? Again same question for the rear?

3. If after playing about with camber links you've introduced a tendency to roll if you land off jumps not totally flat (so a jump into a corner), what is the best way to offset this problem?

Leading questions Dave - but here goes. Disclaimer time first - these are my opinions based on my somewhat sketchy understanding of things. They may not be correct - but they're here in all good faith for you...

Firstly I'd say that the effects front or rear will be similar but obviously working at that end of the car instead of the other.

1. Lowering both ball studs on the inner and outer together and keeping the length and angles the same makes the car more edgy at the limit of adhesion - although I would say that it feels as if there is more grip until that limit is reached. Raising has the reverse.

2. Lowering the inner ballstud or raising the outer (i.e. creating more of an angle) will increase the initial grip at the expense of grip through the latter parts of the turn. I would say it is more edgy on the way in for sure - but will wash out a little more on the way out or it will break away more violently.

3. Sounds like you want to reduce sidebite - so I would raise the ball studs on the inner and make the links more parallel. As an aside to this, I almost always remove the outer row of spikes on the rear Schumacher mini spike tyres to help alleviate my poor jumping and reduce the side bite in adverse camber situations. Might be worth a go?

I've tried to avoid mentioning the dreaded roll centre - because for one, I don't know enough about suspension dynamics and for another, I've no idea where the C of G lies in the vertical plane so I don't know if the leverages are increasing or reducing. What I've tried to do is answer it based on how I think it feels on the track. But TBH, so much is going on in the corner that it's hard sometimes to isolate which end is being the predominant one and whether or not the problem actually lies at the other end.

[frogger]

Serpent has a great booklet that describes a lot of what setup changes does. It's obviously for a different car but the descriptions hold true. Go to section B, advanced setup.

http://www.serpent.com/file.php?FileID=4719

[Kit Jones]

Kit, which sections of the track did you think the 4 hole was not so good? Far side middle loop? My car felt fine over bumps, but then I would not be going quite so fast.


Sorry, by first I meant the week before when I really struggled over the bumps with too much damping.

When my damping wasn't quite right yesterday the area I found to be the biggest problem was the end of the straight which would make it difficult to line up the table top. If I lifted slightly more it wasn't a problem but theres no fun in that! I think it may also be partly down to the line I was taking round the corner so there may have been a better way.

[jampat2004]

That's great thanks, I'll get the rack out and have a look. What spacers are you running on servo as mine hits the servo just before reaching full right lock. Could possibly unwind the servo link one or two turns and see if I can make it work that way.

Ditto previous comment, thanks everyone for all your comments and advice. Looks like losi forum is back buzzing again, long may it continue:thumbsup:
ive fitted a 2mm spacer and a 0.5 mm spacer to the 1251 and with the altering of the underside of the bulkhead all seems good with no catching.:thumbsup:

[evolution]

Nice to see you kit arrived ok frogger. The spares are in now too :thumbsup: Do you think they'll let us run them round Ardent on Sunday during the break. Really liking the car and it responds well to all the little tweaks.
Loving the set up tips on here,makes things a lot quicker and easier to get the car going fast

[Aran]

to avoid getting a dremel out ive added a washer behind the ball on the servo horn and im not running any spacers, I have a savox 1258 tg had enough of running a 1251 without a servo saver.

also i added a small washer between the steering link (part that attaches the servo to the steering rack) this was because when it was assembles it was a little too short so this just helped that.

just need to fit my electrics in now :| lol

[frogger]

Nice to see you kit arrived ok frogger. The spares are in now too :thumbsup: Do you think they'll let us run them round Ardent on Sunday during the break.

Let me know how you get on with those carbon bits I sent you. :thumbsup: I'm at Ardent on Saturday and will be doing some laps with mine then. Might be able to have a sneaky run during lunchtime on Sunday. Sure they won't notice. :D

[reg]

has anyone noticed that,when you do up the front skid plate,that is what is holding the arms from dropping,you need to do it right up as the screws go into locking nuts,the screws could do with being longer so you dont have to do them up so tight,or turn the nut upside down,

[ianjoyner]

has anyone noticed that,when you do up the front skid plate,that is what is holding the arms from dropping,you need to do it right up as the screws go into locking nuts,the screws could do with being longer so you dont have to do them up so tight,or turn the nut upside down,

I did notice that the screws weren't quite long enough to reach the locking part of the nut, this may be affected by which kick spacer is used.

Have you fitted the shocks yet? The down travel of the wishbones is limited by the shocks so the wishbones shouldn't touch the skid plate, at least with the stock 2mm shock limiters and probably even without.

[NTS]

Here is some build and setup info for the TLR22.

...



Gnarly Old Dog,

On the setup sheet you posted at the start of this thread the camber link positions are "1 + 1mm Spacer" for the front and "2 + 1mm Spacer" for the rear. Would I be right in reading this as using the inner inboard camber link position at the front, numbered 1 on the set up sheet and the outer inboard camber link position at the rear with the corresponding spacers under the ball stud? This seems fairly obvious but I was slightly thrown by the manual that shows the build using the outer positions for both front and rear inboard camber link ball studs but then states "#1 with 2mm spacers and 0mm spacers on caster block" for the front on the Kit setup sheet where "#1" would be the inner position?

Hope you can clarify this.

Cheers, Nick

[Ben Turner]

Might be able to have a sneaky run during lunchtime on Sunday. Sure they won't notice. :D

Im game for that :)

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Gnarly Old Dog,

On the setup sheet you posted at the start of this thread the camber link positions are "1 + 1mm Spacer" for the front and "2 + 1mm Spacer" for the rear. Would I be right in reading this as using the inner inboard camber link position at the front, numbered 1 on the set up sheet and the outer inboard camber link position at the rear with the corresponding spacers under the ball stud? This seems fairly obvious but I was slightly thrown by the manual that shows the build using the outer positions for both front and rear inboard camber link ball studs but then states "#1 with 2mm spacers and 0mm spacers on caster block" for the front on the Kit setup sheet where "#1" would be the inner position?

Hope you can clarify this.

Cheers, Nick

On my set up sheet, position 1 relates to the inner link position on the bulkhead (ie the longer link) and position 2, the outer.

Not sure about the instruction manual but TBH, we never had a manual when we built the initial cars and I didn't really pay it too much attention when building the production car at the weekend (sorry). Please bear in mind that the manual has to cover a variety of situations and the purpose of me starting this thread was to help support the UK/Euro-centric racers that would be looking for a starting point for the car for typical UK type tracks.
From the looks of it, the manual set up predominantly reflects the US style of setup for their tracks with the rear-motor car.

Hope I've clarified it for you?

[ianjoyner]

On my set up sheet, position 1 relates to the inner link position on the bulkhead (ie the longer link) and position 2, the outer.


What's the ball stud position/washers on the rear hub on your setup, I don't think it's on the sheet? Thanks.

[NTS]

On my set up sheet, position 1 relates to the inner link position on the bulkhead (ie the longer link) and position 2, the outer.

Not sure about the instruction manual but TBH, we never had a manual when we built the initial cars and I didn't really pay it too much attention when building the production car at the weekend (sorry). Please bear in mind that the manual has to cover a variety of situations and the purpose of me starting this thread was to help support the UK/Euro-centric racers that would be looking for a starting point for the car for typical UK type tracks.
From the looks of it, the manual set up predominantly reflects the US style of setup for their tracks with the rear-motor car.

Hope I've clarified it for you?

Gnarly Old Dog,

Spot on thank you, as I expected but just wanted to be sure I was understanding it correctly. Inner position front, long link. Outer position rear, short link.

Cheers, Nick

[Gnarly Old Dog]

What's the ball stud position/washers on the rear hub on your setup, I don't think it's on the sheet? Thanks.

My bad.
I'd start with C + 3mm or C/B with 3mm depending on how much rotation you're after. IMO C will give you more rotation than C/B

HTH

[ianjoyner]

Thanks, so quite a big change to the links from the manual, your head start on UK setups is appreciated :).

[mrspeedy]

Has anyone tried the kit setup but with the shocks mounted in the outer hole in the wishbone ? it feels pretty good on the bench ...

[RDG 40]

what motors aremost people running? 6.5t or 7.5t, im thinking more for outside this summer. Tempted to go 6.5t with the losi and a 7.5t in the b4 for wet? Or do you go 7.5t in losi 8.5t in b4 for wet?

[reg]

Its more that fast enought with a 7.5 speed passion on a 20 pinion:thumbsup:

[ianhaye]

what would be a starting point with shock oil on a grass track with smallish jumps, cheers

[Gnarly Old Dog]

4 hole 55 pistons in the front with the kit oil and 6 hole 55's in the rear with the kit oil.
Go for Green front springs and white rears
TBH - we found that springing combination worked well almost everywhere - yes it can be tuned further but as a starting basis, it'll do for most eventualities.

[ianhaye]

thanks didnt realize that came with oil, wanted to find out if and what oil to get so could order same time as the car, what about tyres on grass? use to run mini spikes and staggers on the old b4. cheers for your help,

[Gnarly Old Dog]

thanks didnt realize that came with oil, wanted to find out if and what oil to get so could order same time as the car, what about tyres on grass? use to run mini spikes and staggers on the old b4. cheers for your help,

No need to change the tyres from what you already like. Personally, I prefer a minispike front with the outer row of spikes removed but I know that can feel quite edgy on any car - so if you prefer the feel of staggers then that's what I would start out on.

BTW - the Kit oil is 27.5Wt.

[Ross]

4 hole 55 pistons in the front with the kit oil and 6 hole 55's in the rear with the kit oil.
Go for Green front springs and white rears
TBH - we found that springing combination worked well almost everywhere - yes it can be tuned further but as a starting basis, it'll do for most eventualities.

Do we know who has springs in stock. Also are the 6 hole pistons an option or are they the 4 hole drilled out to 6.

Cheers

Ross

[jampat2004]

Do we know who has springs in stock. Also are the 6 hole pistons an option or are they the 4 hole drilled out to 6.

Cheers

Ross
yeah im also trying to find somewhere that has springs in stock,je spares have some but most of the grades are out of stock so is there anywhere else to try?

[PaulUpton]

Try selections RC, got a full set of them yesterday :thumbsup:

May not be listed on there website but give them a call

[stegger]

DMS have the full set of springs and the 1 or 2 rates that they don't have are coming in tomorrow ;)

[Chris56]

What rear springs/pistons would you recommend for indoor carpet?

[Darren Boyle]

DMS have the full set of springs and the 1 or 2 rates that they don't have are coming in tomorrow ;)

Thanks Stegger, yes as of the morning we will have 20+ pairs of every spring for the car back in stock (as well as all the other spares and options for the car that we already have too)....

[reg]

What rear springs/pistons would you recommend for indoor carpet?



i ran it as kit Chris and it was fine biggest piston in the rear and then the next size down in the front,if you want to borrow my shell friday night you can,we can just swop over after your race:thumbsup:

[Chris56]

i ran it as kit Chris and it was fine biggest piston in the rear and then the next size down in the front,if you want to borrow my shell friday night you can,we can just swop over after your race:thumbsup:

That would be great Mark, although I still have the X4 im eagar to get this on the track. Were you still running 6 hole pistons?

[reg]

That would be great Mark, although I still have the X4 im eagar to get this on the track. Were you still running 6 hole pistons?


no worries,the offer is there so just let me know,iv never ran 6 holes,there just 4 all round

[Chris56]

Yes I'll take you up on it if thats ok - I've currently got the 6 holed 55 pistons all round - i'll get them changed for tomorrow

[reg]

Yes I'll take you up on it if thats ok - I've currently got the 6 holed 55 pistons all round - i'll get them changed for tomorrow

ok m8,ill let rob know we need to be in different heats:thumbsup:........just try it as it is,it wouldl be interesting to see the difference between them both

[jonaswal]

Hi !

Is anybody using zippy flightmax saddle packs ? They're quite high so I was wondering if there was no problem using them.

They're 31 mm high.

As I don't have any saddle packs yet, I'd prefer to pay 80$ than 300$+...

Thanks ! Sorry for my poor english !

Jonas

[dirk702]

Hi !

Is anybody using zippy flightmax saddle packs ? They're quite high so I was wondering if there was no problem using them.

They're 31 mm high.

As I don't have any saddle packs yet, I'd prefer to pay 80$ than 300$+...

Thanks ! Sorry for my poor english !

Jonas
Hi Jonaswal,
The 31mm saddle packs are to high! They hit the body and wont fit ! I have the same problem !

[jonaswal]

Hi Jonaswal,
The 31mm saddle packs are to high! They hit the body and wont fit ! I have the same problem !

K, thx !

This is good news for my bank account... :)

I'll keep my B4 for the moment then, going to Kampenhout this afternoon by the way.

See ya'

Jonas

[Ben Turner]

Had first run with mine tonight! Overall i was extremely impressed, was matching the pace of a driver Im normally quite comparable too, who was driving an X6 with a lot more of a refined setup on it. I would say it had a slight on power understeer/off power oversteer but apart from that was pretty good. Plenty of ideas to try next and definitly a positive start :)

Had 1 or 2 big crashes with cars parked/crashed on the straight too and the car stood up very well with no breakages, the rear wing does seem quite thin though, but im being fussy now!

[reg]

My bad.
I'd start with C + 3mm or C/B with 3mm depending on how much rotation you're after. IMO C will give you more rotation than C/B

HTH


will this affect the rotation just on slow corners were you go in,turn then go,rather than a slow sweeping corner,or will it also make the rear looser on the fast corners,also do any of the team drivers have any more setups for high grip carpet

[Danosborne6661]

Ran mine last night for the first time indoors in mid motor configuration, car drives amazingly for a first outing! I think the stock set-up is generally for a rear motored car so we've changed a few things to get it suited for the mid motor lay-out.

We've removed the washers on the rear inner camber link, removed the washer from the front inner camber link and then same again on the steering to get rid of the bump steer. Other than that I'm running a lead sheet under my saddle lipo to bring the weight up towards the mid and rear of the car and I've trimmed the inside and outside row off my front pins :)

I spent around 6 months trying to get my Cougar going well and no matter what I did it was no where near as good as this already is! Great car.

Thank you Losi :thumbsup:

[reg]

Ran mine last night for the first time indoors in mid motor configuration, car drives amazingly for a first outing! I think the stock set-up is generally for a rear motored car so we've changed a few things to get it suited for the mid motor lay-out.

We've removed the washers on the rear inner camber link, removed the washer from the front inner camber link and then same again on the steering to get rid of the bump steer. Other than that I'm running a lead sheet under my saddle lipo to bring the weight up towards the mid and rear of the car and I've trimmed the inside and outside row off my front pins :)

I spent around 6 months trying to get my Cougar going well and no matter what I did it was no where near as good as this already is! Great car.

Thank you Losi :thumbsup:

what oils and pistons are you running and what surface do you race on

[tomtom]

Just finished building it this morning.

The car feels amazing on the table, really please with overall quality/amount of play.

I build it rear motor (only have stick lipos for now) and follow the kit setup but end up with positive camber on the rear, off course I can shorten the turnbuckles or move the link from 2 to 1, just wonder if you run that setup too.

Got to shoehorn the electronics now.

[ianhaye]

hi gnarly dog whats the part number for the 6 hole 55s for rear, cheer s

[Gnarly Old Dog]

There are no TLR 6 hole pistons. Just use the kit 4 hole and drill an extra 2 holes yourself.
If you want to keep your 4 hole pistons then buy another piston pack (TLR5090 I think) - that way, you can maybe tune even further.

[ashleyb4]

Does anyone sell the drills required for drilling the pistons? You say they refure to the imperial sizes how do they relate?? Help the young one who has been bought up in the metric world.

Also is anyone running weight under there lipo's???

Ash

[RDG 40]

Does anyone sell the drills required for drilling the pistons? You say they refure to the imperial sizes how do they relate?? Help the young one who has been bought up in the metric world.

Also is anyone running weight under there lipo's???

Ash

save the hassle contact nick on the thread he has on his new tapered ones

[Gnarly Old Dog]

save the hassle contact nick on the thread he has on his new tapered ones

I must admit Nick's tapered piston look really nice. Great Job.

If you fancy drilling out the standard pistons, I purchased my drillbits here (http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Engineering_Menu_Loose_HSS_Precision_Ground_Drillb its_168.html)

Not expensive - so I bought a couple of each size just in case I broke one.

[Bagman]

Just bought a load of Nicks pistons for a nice price. Much easier than messing about drilling and tapered too.

[pugboy]

Does anyone sell the drills required for drilling the pistons? You say they refure to the imperial sizes how do they relate?? Help the young one who has been bought up in the metric world.

Also is anyone running weight under there lipo's???

Ash

There is a chart on the tapered piston thread, is that the info you want mate?

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66505

Have you got the brass weight kit, only 20 quid...

[ashleyb4]

All i have at the minute is the kit..

I was wanting to to run the car with standard pistons first so i could see how it feels then make my own judgments to see if i want to try the tapered pistons.

Im defently thinking the brass weight kit will be on my list of things to get chris.

Ash

[Gnarly Old Dog]

All i have at the minute is the kit..

I was wanting to to run the car with standard pistons first so i could see how it feels then make my own judgments to see if i want to try the tapered pistons.

Im defently thinking the brass weight kit will be on my list of things to get chris.

Ash


That's possibly one of the most sensible approaches I've heard in a long time.
Good for you Ash.
Set up sheets can only ever tell you so much - actually trying things and evaluating what they do for you is so much better.
There's no shortage of advice everywhere - most very well intended (including my own) - but in reality, everybody's thumbs are different and knowing what works for you will stand you in better stead in the long run.

I like the rear weight kit but I'm sure others will prefer something different.
Find out what works for you Ash but post back what you find.

[DCM]

Only thing I have done, is used the 56 and 54 pistons, all drilled out to 6 hole pistons, as the four hole just felt soooo stodgy.

[Bagman]

Er, a bit of advice if possible.

The build is going smoothly then I get to page 32 C-7 (it's rear motored) but the mid build is the same at this point. Went to put the smaller bearing onto the layshaft before the slipper. No small bearing in the kit, but one extra larger bearing (LOSA6937 for the larger one). Thought I made a basic error so stripped down again to look for it but no it was built correctly. I've googled the part number that I need TLR2963 which comes up as the layshaft and spacer. Checked the manual and it is the same number for both the bearing and the layshaft. I could get the UK shop I bought it from to send me the part (providing they have it) but that would take over a week to get to me. All I need are the dimensions of the bearing and I can buy it locally.

Or am I doing something wrong, no bearing, it's something else, etc?

[orinoco]

TLR2963 isn't a bearing its just a small coloured spacer, hope this helps.

[Bagman]

That's what I thought but it won't fit that far down onto the layshaft plus the picture in the instructions looks like a bearing. Doesn't that coloured spacer go on after the spring?

[Wacker 2]

Only bearings for the layshaft ate to be installed inside the gearbox!

[Bagman]

That's what I thought, it looks like a smaller bearing should be going in there. That's what is not in my kit. I haven't opened any of the other bags yet but just from looking I don't think it's in there. I also have that extra bigger bearing so I'm guessing it's just the wrong one has been included in mine.

I still need the dimensions though and without a correct part number I may be a bit screwed there. Might have to get it sent from the shop but that just seems a bit excessive when I could just buy one here,

[ed gaines]

Any suggestion on a mid-motor for all dirt track,Need all the help.

[Reo]

Any suggestion on a mid-motor for all dirt track,Need all the help.

Brass Weight System, Mid Engine: 22 (TLR4151), should be basic for more tracktion. Adds at rear behind gearbox.

[snige]

From wha I'm reading of the manual the colour spacer goes on the layshaft to space the slipper unit away from the motor plate

[Bagman]

Thanks for that, it looks like you're right, I'll find out after work. Also got PM'd by some very helpful people so it looks like I've got it wrong (happily) and can finish off the car tonight.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[spud31]

Gents

so are we saying darren b`s taplow setup is a good base indoor setup ?

[frogger]

Gents

so are we saying darren b`s taplow setup is a good base indoor setup ?

Any chance you can post a link to it?

[spud31]

heres a link

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/setuptwentytwo/22_AndyCarter_Taplow20101212.pdf
http://www.petitrc.com/setup/losi/setuptwentytwo/22_DarrenBloomfield_Taplow20101212.pdf

[Nitrius]

My servo link seems to be touching my servo case when turning to the left, the servo is a Futuba S9551.

Anyone got any tips on what to do about it? It isn't binding a lot, it's just a little bit, so i was maybe thinking of cutting away some of the plastic on the one rod end or something.

[spud31]

its not the case my savox was doing this, the ball cup is catching the moulded web underneath the upper bulkhead 2 mins with file sorted.

[pugboy]

hmmm... might be both, mine was catching on underside of bulkhead (as you say quick dremel or file sorts that one) and the front of the servo (only just but enough to stop it locking out on full right lock)!

[turbosimi]

Hello

Has already someone tried how the losi 22 is against an asso b4 in rear motor configuration on a low grip surface?

Thanks

[Richard t]

Woohoo picking mine up today at my LHS here in Dallas Texas, but don't think I'll be running mid-motor as our local indoor track is a pretty rough usually low traction clay surface.

[ianhaye]

my ball cup is also catching on the top of the servo casing so cant get full right lock :-( how has others got around this ?

[Oliv996]

Here my personal battery holder I Dremeled in my garage. The front carbon plate between LiPo and servo is dedicated to receive Rx and PT.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8937/img0346z.jpg

[till]

wooooooow this batery holder looks awsome =)

[Gayo]

Old school servo here, Oliv'!

[Legacy555]

Just putting the rack together and I like it.
Just wondered how people solved the high point around the seam in the middle? looks like this is a result of a 2 part moulding being used to create the chanel in the rack.

You can see the marks (high point) in the middle caused by offering up the rack to the casing for the first time.

I'm reluctant to put a file or sand paper in there as rubbing off the smooth standard finish is going to result in more problems down the line. But I'm not having inconsistant steering either..... any ideas?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_XbMlay4rD20/TZRa8cHODyI/AAAAAAAACL0/D9rBQcC4xXM/s720/2011-03-31%2011.07.41.jpg

[Gnarly Old Dog]

TBH Will, I just built mine.
When I put the prototypes together, there was a noticeable high spot and I did blade the rack as it was the rack that was exhibiting the issue back then but the production fit and materials are much nicer.
I make you right not to want to sand it - you might be able to get a thin blade in there if you're careful but I didn't do anything and I can't notice any high spot now that the front end is fully assembled and being powered by a ridiculously powerful digital servo :woot:

We never experienced any issues during testing with the prototypes and since these are much nicer, I'm not expecting any now either.

Not sure if this helps but it is what I have done myself.

[Legacy555]

TBH Will, I just built mine.
When I put the prototypes together, there was a noticeable high spot and I did blade the rack as it was the rack that was exhibiting the issue back then but the production fit and materials are much nicer.
I make you right not to want to sand it - you might be able to get a thin blade in there if you're careful but I didn't do anything and I can't notice any high spot now that the front end is fully assembled and being powered by a ridiculously powerful digital servo :woot:

We never experienced any issues during testing with the prototypes and since these are much nicer, I'm not expecting any now either.

Not sure if this helps but it is what I have done myself.

I've used some 3M cutting paste - it only took a few seconds of rubbing to remove the high point and the finish, although now dull, is much smoother than if I had used sand paper. Rack will be perfect after a good wash.

Did you lubricate the rack at all? I've got some PTFE spray that'll should work nicely without being a magnet for dust/dirt

[tony12795]

Looks really good..... :-)

Need to see pictures of the electrics in there now.

Tony

Here my personal battery holder I Dremeled in my garage. The front carbon plate between LiPo and servo is dedicated to receive Rx and PT.

[pugboy]

Loving that battery strap, it looks mint..

This is probably a really dumbass question but why do some people drill the top out of the ballcups? :blush:

[MikePimlott]

To adjust the height without removing the cup

[pugboy]

Cheers Mike, makes sense.

[Oliv996]

Old school servo here, Oliv'!

and it fits well with my old and slow brain :lol:

[ianhaye]

right got car all built up and elecs soldered up but..... i cant get full lock to the right because the ball cup on the servo arm side hits the top of the servo, using a low profile savox with the kit servo arm, what can i do to get full lock again as dont want to have to file down servo casing. cheers

[jaydits]

hi i,m using the same servo
just cut off a little bit of ballcup
works great

[ianhaye]

got it sorted with schumacher ball and cullcups :-)

[stegger]

As title what weight are people using, TLR front and rear weight kits, rudebits weights how much are you running and under what conditions ?

[JohnM]

As title what weight are people using, TLR front and rear weight kits, rudebits weights how much are you running and under what conditions ?

What's this front weight kit like? not heard about that one till now.

I've only ran mine for one race on Sunday when the reciever in my Durango died, the car had no extra weight at all, in fact the car was a good chunk underweight, still drove really nicely, was keeping up with the 4wds in the race:thumbsup:

Only just got the rear weight kit, so will give that a go next time.

[stegger]

The 20 degree brass kick shim is 16 g heavier than stock composite part

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/TLR1048-25016g.jpg


The 25 degree brass kick shim is 8.8 g heavier than the stock composite part

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/TLR1049-2508g.jpg

[Kommando98]

right got car all built up and elecs soldered up but..... i cant get full lock to the right because the ball cup on the servo arm side hits the top of the servo, using a low profile savox with the kit servo arm, what can i do to get full lock again as dont want to have to file down servo casing. cheers

I had the same issue. I bumped down to only .5mm of servo spacers and the issue was fixed for me.

[reg]

were are these from:wub

The 20 degree brass kick shim is 16 g heavier than stock composite part

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/TLR1048-25016g.jpg


The 25 degree brass kick shim is 8.8 g heavier than the stock composite part

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/TLR1049-2508g.jpg

[stegger]

Reg, they are on the TLR website under hopup's ;)

http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=TLR0022#quickAccessories

Hit ALL on hopup's ;)

[spud31]

as guys using using the savox 1251 ( spektrum 6040) will also find ball cup rubs on servo case at full lock, just sand the top of the ball cup on a flat surface until it clears, was about 1.5mm on my car.
Also dont fit servo horn central but one spline to right to correct offset on servo.