Strengthening FS2 front shock tower/bulkhead

[/tobys]

Any tips/suggestions for beefing up the front shock tower and mounts?

Raced at Cov today and the car was really good but broke a shock tower and then the front tower mount and top diff cover in 2 separate incidents and neither were especially big offs.

thanks in advance.

[Darren Boyle]

DMS Partz 4mm Carbon Shock Towers and Alloy Tower mounts if required :thumbsup:

[njc11]

In my experience i would stick with the kit towers etc.. simply because of the added strength of the CF towers it will only shift the break to somewhere else :thumbsup:

Try putting the bolts for the shocks the other way round.. i use a caphead screw pushed through from the front with the nut on the back. This way when you do have a roll etc the screw isnt digging into the track surface etc which could have been what was causing your break!
:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

First off Toby are you at Cov for the last MAM? If so please pop over and I will go through the car screw by screw with you, not many people in the UK that have run ZX5s longer than me! My car has a few "tweaks" on there which can be done in a couple of minutes, nearly for free and make a great car unbelievable!

The broken front tower issue USED to be a real pain in the bum but I've <runs off to cuddle a tree> not broken one in 2 years now.

There are a couple of tricks, all found the hard way (and repeated at the rear of the car just to be certain);

1) The screws which go through the tower mount and gearbox top into the lower trans case are FAR too short in the kit. I run 20mm cap heads (less likely to round than buttons) through there, you may find that you need to shorten the screws a fraction or space under the heads a little as they can touch the wishbone and bind it up!

2) The single screw that connects the tower mount to the gearbox top makes the assembly too rigid, I have an O-ring between 2 washers on mine, just nip it up so the o-ring compresses and it locates without being solid.

3) Shock screws need to be reversed. Use button head screws so the button is forward .. order is

screw head - shock bush - (spacer if used) - plain nut - tower - washer - nylock
this has the added benefit of making it much quicker to change upper shock positions
(note:- if you do the same at the rear with the shocks on the back of the wishbones as I run them make sure you have near zero thread showing past the nylock!)

4) Tower choice, the LA216B (4 hole tower) is now available and has extra material in the webbing ... not seen one of these broken (yet)

Now I use the ali 3-racing tower mounts but if you want to them remember they are 1.25mm shorter than the FS/FS2 mounts so will need spacing up. I actually have 2.25mm under mine as I find the car realy benefits from having the extra up travel that raising the tower by 1mm and lengthening the shock shafts by 1mm too gives ... so much more consistent on heavy landings, especially if you have to have lock on!

In terms of strength my car is basically an FS2 now with the LA216B tower, aluminium rear hubs and 3 racing ali tower mounts and it's strong as hell. I can only remember having 2 breakage related DNFs with the car in the last 12 months, 1 was a front kncukle set (on a MASSIVE jump at Ardent) and 1 a rear shock shaft after being hit full wack by an Ansmann X4. The others (about 6) have all been the same thing ... wheel nuts giving up!
With the original tower I used to run a GRP brace from the damper bolts down to the tower mount bolts on the rear of the tower but I don't feel this is needed with the LA216B towers, also as Nick says either a brace or a carbon tower (unless cleverly designed ;) ) will just transfer the loading to the next weakest area ... always more expensive and harder to change!

[kyoshogit]

Great write-up Roger. :thumbsup:

[RudeTony]

I saw the Carbon towers that Darren at DMS has on his car and they are just gorgeous!!
:drool:

[njc11]

Nice looking granted... but will cause the break elsewhere.. ive tried the AC ones which are also very nice :thumbsup:

[RogerM]

I have to agree with Nick on this one ... that is why I didn't put my towers out there and went back to kit plastic.
Mine had significantly more fore-aft give in them than most (without loosing stiffness in the important direction ) but still led to increased breakages.
I have some other ideas to try but for now LA216B seems difficult to beat, if your still worried remove the outer hole as I can not recall ever running it anywhere other than in testing (personally prefer a car with more shock inclination on the front than the rear).

[Darren Boyle]

Not broken a single, tower, mount, or any bit related to them as a result of them being on there so far (nor has Kirk either who runs one from here too) and we BOTH crash plenty (just ask Tony after Moto Arena last weekend - especially the HUGE jump of the kicker he done that landed "wrong" with my car - with no ill effect)

[/tobys]

DMS Partz 4mm Carbon Shock Towers and Alloy Tower mounts if required :thumbsup:

Any chance of some piccies Darren?

[RudeTony]

For sure if you change the base support like Darrens nice blue one, i am sure there is no problem and for sure would be stronger - and yes I was driving Darrens FS2 real hard at Moto Arena and yes I crashed it plenty LOL - enjoyed it actually, more so that not even Darren realised I was driving it like I stole it - LOL

I also would NOT remove the outer hole Roger as it is a set up hole that many do run on - Ellis does, I do and others - the new towers have an additional hole on the inner part and not the outer part - mainly for dirt but also for additional strength

Both options are good
The carbon and the new style 4 hole (add B at the end of the part number) Bling for Darrens and B for normal - LOL

[/tobys]

First off Toby are you at Cov for the last MAM?

Yes planning on being at Cov for the last MAM. I'll pop over and we can have a chat.

I really enjoyed the car and it had good pace on the day. Cov can be a car breaker but I don't think the crashes that caused the breaks justified the damage!

Cheers :thumbsup:

[Gordonm]

Try Wes j on here, see if he' s making towers for the Kyosho-if not I'm sure he would!-Will see him fri at Bridgford and we're at Cov on Sunday so may be able to help (or not!) cheers, Gord..

[RogerM]

There are carbon towers available for the Lazer, thats not the issue ... it's if people want to use them.

[Gordonm]

Wes's are from lexan, a bit more flex than carbon...

[RogerM]

Wes's are from lexan, a bit more flex than carbon...

How resistant are they to flex in the normal loaded direction?

As I said, I don't think there will be a problem for people running the LA216B towers, much more material at the points where they might have broken.

[/tobys]

Thanks for everyones input :thumbsup:

I ran yesterday with the Alloy front shock mount and the B-spec shock tower and didn't suffer any breakages - and had a couple of "offs" that were at least as bad as the ones that broke the car the previous week.

I also turned my shock mount screws round as suggested in earlier posts by Nick and Roger.

As a final thing, and not certain whether necessary or not, I boiled the plastic parts for about 5 mins and then left to cool naturally in the water.

So far, so good :thumbsup:

[brooksy]

For the last three rounds at worksop I've broken a front shock mount,so for yesterdays final round I did as Nick suggested and put the cap screws in from the front. Not a single breakage all day!.:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Glad to see that people have got this one licked ... the Kyosho stuff amazingly strong and a few little tricks of the trade is all that is needed to make the cars bomb proof :)

[Ted Maul]

Just curious, but why would changing the shock mount screws round make it less prone to breakages?

[markwilliamson2001]

The rounded shape of the head doesn't dig in to the ground as much as the threaded end of the screw... Its a common thing we do on Micro racers as well....
:thumbsup:

[corsair]

Just broke my front shock tower yesterday, going to implement what is being suggested here... :thumbsup:

[RogerM]

My mate Adam ran his FS2 straight out of the box (except the LA216B front tower and reversed top shock screws) at "killer" Coventry for the regional yesterday without a hint of any troubles at all. Having not raced for 15 years he proved 3 things;

1) The Lazer is a strong old beast (as all Kyosho competition cars are)
2) The FS2 is super easy to drive and look after
3) You never totally forget how to do this sport.

[RudeTony]

Roger - who were the top 10 at the regional yesterday at Coventry?

[jasonrcb]

Tony-i cant remember the order but

Tom Yardy tq and win-yokomo
Mat Dodd s4
Paul Robinson durango
Tony Bishop b44
Stuart Harlow durango
Andy Jones cat
Ben Cosgrove hot bodies
James evans cat
Brett Birch b44
Jason Bennett ansmann

[Duncan]

I love my FS2 but the front shock tower has nearly made me bankrupt as every meeting i have attended since buying the car has resulted in broken shock towers ,10 in total. This clearly is down to my poor driving but other cars are taking similar punishment and come out of action in one piece.i have used the 4mm dms carbon and that broke and then countless carbon sp kyosho ones all have smashed to bits. my last resort was this forum and after reading the posts from rodger maybee it should of been my first port of call for help. i am going to try these tips and will post the outcome.:mad:

[adon30]

Me too. Several towers and mounts with the fs2 sp and the fs.
You could try reinforcing it with fibreglass. Worth a go.

[mikeyscott]

I suffered with this over winter, but only odd one re "summer" season.

What are you hitting?? I think some people boil the plastics.

Liking my fs2 SP a lot. My Durango was solid, but you HAD to build it right.

Still got a nib V3 sat in garage, but stuck it out with FS2.

However I did have better results with a 410..

[slow coach]

2) The single screw that connects the tower mount to the gearbox top makes the assembly too rigid, I have an O-ring between 2 washers on mine, just nip it up so the o-ring compresses and it locates without being solid.

obvious probably but this goes on top of the mount

[/tobys]

it was one of the reasons I replaced mine...in my experience it was quite a fragile car. More so than my B44 and definitely not as strong my current DEX410...

I must have spent at least the cost of the kit again in wishbones, shocktowers and chassis replacements during my time with it :cry:

[slow coach]

Hi Roger

sorry should of mentioned it in last post but one of our club members kept pulling the ball stud out the front bulkhead, i presume he has the correct length ball stud and spacer in when he built the kit but cant be sure, as it happens this problem has not happened to me but then he does crash a bit more than me :lol:

[/tobys]

try putting grub screws in the unused holes :)

[adon30]

Hi Roger

sorry should of mentioned it in last post but one of our club members kept pulling the ball stud out the front bulkhead, i presume he has the correct length ball stud and spacer in when he built the kit but cant be sure, as it happens this problem has not happened to me but then he does crash a bit more than me :lol:

Never pulled one of those on mine. But then ive always made sure the ball studs are the correct length for the spacing used. I use Losi 10mm ball studs and cut to size. Also put grub screws m3x5mm in the unused holes.

[slow coach]

it was one of the reasons I replaced mine...in my experience it was quite a fragile car. More so than my B44 and definitely not as strong my current DEX410...

I must have spent at least the cost of the kit again in wishbones, shocktowers and chassis replacements during my time with it :cry:

I have had a few tumbles with mine and so far touch wood all good, our track can be rock hard in the summer with lots of stones and stuff plus the track is marked out by car tyres dug into the ground trust me its a car killer***, I dont take much credit into what people type on forums as generally I havent a clue who they are and what ability they have so therefore could probably break a tank if they tried :lol:

*** seen a B44.1 park his car into one of the tyres at speed the chassis came to a sudden abrupt stop the front left hand side carried on all on its own, the impact removed that corner entirely shock, wishbone, upright, hub, wheel, tyre etc, the shock cap although still on the shock body had been broken off from the tower and couldnt be re attached, also had an Kyosho MP9 hit a stone which had started to show through the top layer of dirt cut the front arm mount in 2 where the bush sits the track is harsh :D

[/tobys]

don't get me wrong, it's a good car - I just found it broke too easily in the same places when under my control! I hope you continue to enjoy it :thumbsup:

[Peakki]

I love my FS2 but the front shock tower has nearly made me bankrupt as every meeting i have attended since buying the car has resulted in broken shock towers ,10 in total. This clearly is down to my poor driving but other cars are taking similar punishment and come out of action in one piece.i have used the 4mm dms carbon and that broke and then countless carbon sp kyosho ones all have smashed to bits. my last resort was this forum and after reading the posts from rodger maybee it should of been my first port of call for help. i am going to try these tips and will post the outcome.:mad:

Forget the plastic parts, get ones made of CF.
For example:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_25_1460_232/products_id/19781/n/Xtreme-Racing-Kyosho-Lazer-Thick-Carbon-Fiber-Front-Shock-Tower-4mm
Used 4mm Xtreme racing one in the rear and a friend made a thick CF tower to the front. Have one as extra..

Also the tower mount can be changed to 3Racing alu one - but then the tower is heightened about 1mm.

[martgifford]

Ok

I had the DMS carbon tower and it lasted for a long time and gradually i knew it was going to break as i am rubbish at driving. I have ordered a few carbon, normal and 4 hole to see how they go.

I had a bmax4 and had 5mm carbon shock towers. They were unbelieably strong and fortunately i did not break any other parts. I wish someone made 5mm shock towers. I rekon they really would work...

Anyways getting to my question - aluminium shock mount - can someone point me in the right direction - photo

[/tobys]

I think it's a 3-racing part. I got mine from DMS but Insideline might stock them as well.

[jamiekerr14]

Interesting part could see it transferring a lot of stress onto other bits though..

[Honeybadger]

Not those Jamie, should mean these.

http://os.3racing.hk/picture.php?image=ZX5-03BU.jpg&max_width=280&max_height=210

[martgifford]

That looks awesome. How do I get one and I guess its for orig zx5 not the fs2?

[RogerM]

Be very careful using the 3-racing tower mounts on an FS/FS2 for these reasons;

1) it lifts the tower 1.5mm as it was designed for the older transmission case design of the stick pack cars

2)It puts lots of extra stress on the plastic transmission cases, you will need to use screws long enough to go all the way through the lower trans case to stand a chance (I use 20mm screws with a 1mm plastic washer under the head of the screw .. need to find one with a 6mm OD so it goes inside the turrets on the mount)

3) As there is no flex at all you will go through shock towers like a hot knife through butter!

I always tell everybody to run the longer screws through the trans case and the plastic washers under the heads of them on the plastic mounts (NO NOT OVER TIGHTEN IT STRESSES THE PARTS ... JUST NIP THEM DOWN!!!).
The same advice goes for attaching the tower, just nip the bolts down.
Make sure that you use button head screws on the upper shock mounts and fit them so that the they go

head-shock bush-washer-plain nut-tower-washer-nylock nut .. this also has the added bonus of meaning that the shock position can be changed by just undoing the nylock nut. The reason for this is that this assembly method is much less likely to dig in to the ground during a roll so limits the stress on the tower.

Last bit of advice is always use the latest LA216B (4 hole) tower, it is stronger but also flexes a little more so transfers less stress to the mounts.

I have broken towers / mounts / gearbox cases but only when there has been good reason (normally me trying something that didn't work resulting in a massive deceleration via solid object!!).
Build the Lazer well, with bit of mechanical sympathy and it's as strong as any of the other cars ... LEAVE THE POWER SCREWDRIVER ALONE ;)

Since I've been building the car this way, using the FS / FS2 plastic mounts , I have not had a single failure whilst racing .. that is over two years now! I have broken them in testing / practice when I've been a bit 'adventurous' with some big jumps and run out of talent to land them but that is my fault, not the cars.