New X-6 rear side

[dima_malyshko]

I find new photo with Paul on Redrc.
http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ViperSinclair.jpg

And I see new rear side. New shocks positions...
Anybody have news?

[elvo]

Well spotted!
That's still very much a prototype / test thing. Main objective is to get the wing forward.

[MRD]

I recon the next upgrade should be a central motor. In theory it could be done with a new top shaft and a few spacers, although a new gearbox would be better :thumbsup:

[YoungChazz]

He sure looks happy.

Yes, Paul (and several other Team drivers) has milled out the bulkhead and produced a new shock tower to fit, then moved the shocks and wing forward. We hope to produce a few more of these for various Team guys, and if the consensus is good, then make them to sell. Might be as early as 6 weeks.

[mark christopher]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225106_557070499430_33900660_31856658_2040691_n.jp g

[Dave Dodd]

What advantages would you get, in doing this?

[NeilRalph77]

I recon the next upgrade should be a central motor. In theory it could be done with a new top shaft and a few spacers, although a new gearbox would be better :thumbsup:

Thought you were thinking of building your 6 on a 60 chassis for the longer wheel base?

[MRD]

I'd like to try it and I already run my x6 full wheel base so I could drop it back to short to get more weight backwards. Mmmm, I do need a new chassis soon :)

[/tobys]

Looks like the rear tower could accommodate the same camber positions as the e-speed hangers...

Hope this comes out soon :thumbsup:

[dancoog]

Looks like Paul's new tower incorporates the camber links as well givin options on height and length. It moves the wing directly over the rear wheels and really smooths out the aero package. No more gap behind the body to tower. You can also see that Paul is runing the short battery from Losi and all reports from him are that it works very well centralising the weight. In the US we get away with running the car lighter than in the UK so its a great option for us.

[Twister]

Looks like Paul's new tower incorporates the camber links as well givin options on height and length. It moves the wing directly over the rear wheels and really smooths out the aero package. No more gap behind the body to tower. You can also see that Paul is runing the short battery from Losi and all reports from him are that it works very well centralising the weight. In the US we get away with running the car lighter than in the UK so its a great option for us.

Dont you x-6 guys run your cars a lot heavier than others ? that is what i thought anyway , stiff and light is right :lol:

[YoungChazz]

We continue to spec the K 019 Conversion Kit with the graphite chassis. Kinwald always ran graphite -- he wanted the car very precise and repeatable. You can easily get an X - 6 Sq into the very low 1500 g area.

In U.K. and much of the rest of Europe it's a different story. You would be amazed at the number of bumps in an astro or grass track; much bumpier than many dirt tracks. Also, they have extremely limited practice time. Therefore, they need a forgiving, easy to drive car, which = heavy and flexy. They run plastic chassies and 100-150g more than we do in the States.

Whatever works.

[Twister]

Thank you Chazz for clearing that out for me. Well i am a crappy and slow type of driver but i'll go with first alternative and work with suspension. whatever works :lol: i like that attitude. have a good one :)

[YoungChazz]

That's why we build them as we do, Twister. Probably more options for an X - 6 Sq from the factory than any other car. Sometimes we actually think we have too many tuning options for the average racer to understand and use. The point is that you can adjust the car to suit your style and individual track conditions.

Most drivers, once they find a set-up that works for them, don't change much. Other guys have the car entirely different from place to place. Whatever works for you!

[Paul_Sinclair]

Good eye spotting this :thumbsup:! I was wondering as we took the pics whether someone would notice...

As Chazz and Elvo have posted, it's something we're working on currently and seems to be going well. Originally a few team drivers had taken the stock tower and carefully dremeled it and the bulkhead to mount it forward while leaving the stock camber link locations. This was done mostly to move the wing forward.

After seeing it in person, I thought it could be made better by making a whole new tower that incorporated the inner CL mounts. As the team has run the car and developed set-ups we've learned quite a bit about that rear ballstud location. Int his new tower the ballstud mounts into vertical slots with defined locations. The shock holes are all the same as the normal XF 3313 rear shock tower. So far I really like the way the car looks going around the track - this moves the rear wing much closer to over the rear wheels, and the whole package looks more natural.

As Dan points out, I'm also running the short battery; I find it gives the same advantage as running saddle packs but only took some slight dremeling on the battery strap to clear the plugs. My car is around 1550g ready to race, split at 65 to 66% rear. I haven't actually re-done the weight in my car since switching to Viper, but so far everything's felt VERY good.

[super__dan]

Paul - you need a new signature graphic ;)

[dancoog]

Paul - you need a new signature graphic ;)

Its only 2 speedo/ motor, a painter and a decal sponsor behind.. :)

[caneye]

Paul - is the Team AJ shell your preferred bodyshell these days? how do you find it over the stock shell?

[Paul_Sinclair]

Yes, I've been running the Team AJ body for a while now - probably about a year. Honestly, I really like the way it looks mostly. It has a touch less rear traction than the stock shell, but overall I've been running on higher-bite tracks (the main indoor track I run at over the winter has been on slicks), so I've not had any issues.

[geckster]

also a question to Paul: this small lipo, has it 1s or 2s? For me it looks like 1s, but how do you compensate the lack of power? Stronger motor?

[mark christopher]

its a 2 cell lipo from, losi

[YoungChazz]

Paul has recently switched from Speed Passion to Viper, and he is running the same winds and gearing in his various cars that he did with the old motors, even though he now has the small batteries. What you lose (mostly) with the small batt is a bit of run time.

[Paul_Sinclair]

As posted, the small battery is the short 2S pack from Losi - 3800 mAh, 60C. I'm running a Viper 8.5 motor, geared 22/81, with some slight timing boost added in to the VTX10 speedo.

[Cooper]

Why don't do it simple, like this?
(ok might be difficult to detach shocks but as these are kyojojo shocks they are awesome and never need to be rebuild ;) )

http://oi56.tinypic.com/k4img4.jpg

[Chippy96]

Tell us more about the shocks......never heard of that make before,cheers PC.

[Cooper]

Kyosho RB5

[Gayo]

Nice wing sticker, Coop :p

[Cooper]

We try to make a statement, X-ray needs to make a 2wd buggy. :p

[YoungChazz]

Why should they bother? X Factory already has!!

[RS Concept]

Hi Chazz n Paul

News reg. the new rear tower?... maybe some detailed pics about the modification of the bulkhead?

How did you find the upgrade on the track.... looking good,,,,this I dont think so is an real option. Airflow OK,, it should be.

Adjustabilitiy of the RC inner balllink,,, thats an option...big option. Anything else?
Rear side and front bite has been not affected via the wight transfere to front?

PS. On dirt and dust I started to get out the ballasts from my X6sq...hm,,, more interesting to drive!!!

Thanks in advance.

P.

[jk007]

Has anyone else tried this new mount position
And does it make any difference?????

[dancoog]

I've been running the modified rear tower and bulkhead for the past few months and my car has been brilliant.
Lots of things have changed in that time though so it is difficult to focus on the mod as the root cause.
I'm now running the Team AJ body, we've moved to the outdoor season here, revised setups, forward mounted rear tower, running the 96mm losi battery.

The modification does bring the airflow right to the rear wing eliminating the gap we had on the cars previously and it certainly improves the looks. My car has been very well planted and seams to jump better, overall grip seems improved and darn does it look trick!

Paul is going to be the best person to comment on the exact changes due to the amount of testing he gets in.

[jk007]

Hi I'm going to try and modify mine this weekend
And test it out at robinhood raceway on next Wednesday
Night meeting .I've only had the car 1 week seems
to go ok so far .still got my b4 and can do faster laps with it
tested them back to back same tyres over 10 laps
the b4 did the fastest lap but 3 crashes x6 was .5
slower but no crashes how can I get the x6 to go faster
to get me to the next level . Cheers

[adey]

can anybody post detailed pics of the bulkhead modification please.

[YoungChazz]

You must cut up the bulkhead a lot -- if you go back to the standard tower location you'll need a new bulkhead. They are not the most expensive part...

Much of the difference may be attributable to the AJ body, which Paul also runs. I'll let him comment on the whole package.

Paul is working now to solve the final problem with this: ballstud changes. He's been running tower forward for about 6 months, and still needs to pull the transmission to change anything on the ballstud. What used to be a 1-minute change is now at least 10 mins for a very experienced mechanic. So you may want to think twice about doing it.

We are working on two different ideas to make these changes easier/quicker. As soon as we find the best solution, we will release a kit with new tower, machined bulkhead, and all the other parts you need to make the change quickly and easily.

However, this is not our first priority. Paul has started producing the Gen 5.1 prototypes of the X - 7, and will go back to work on tower forward after the 5.1s are finished and out to our Team drivers.

[Menace]

After mounting the shocktower on the front of the bulkhead would there maybe be enough room to attach a ballstud mount to the shocktower similar to the one SkipGear used to have for the XXX? Basically a K Factory style mount on the rear tower to help speed-up the ballstud changes again.

[jk007]

Just modified all the bits today at work going to fit them tonight
see how it looks will post pics later

[daz]

Just modified all the bit today at work going to fit them tonight
see how it looks will post pics later
Knowing you it will look gash...

[J_WOODY]

I've cut up an old bulkhead to try this mod, and made some temporary hangers, its a lot tighter to work on than before, heres some pics (sorry about the quality)



http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=682&pictureid=4175

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=682&pictureid=4172

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=682&pictureid=4173

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=682&pictureid=4174

[jk007]

just done mine tonight:thumbsup:

[/tobys]

Has there been any progress on getting this to market?

What handling advantages does it bring? Is it all about moving the wing forward?

[YoungChazz]

It's 90% appearance. We think we have the major problem solved. It's a matter now of getting the parts and we'll release a Kit.

[ianjoyner]

Any news on a kit for this?

I've been finding my X6 pushes in high speed sweepers. I tried taking off the rear wing and it was actually great through the sweeper! But I missed the rear grip else where.

I'm sure bringing the rear wing closer to the rear axle, so it's not acting like a cantilever lifting the front end up would help.

[YoungChazz]

It's kind of on the back burner for now. What we need is a female ball instead of the ball stud. That is, a ball which attaches with a screw from the back side. We are talking with Lunsford about making them for us, but it's a very low production quantity and harder to do than you might think = expensive.

In the meantime, check pix of Paul's or Ellis' cars. They run the lower wing position with the wing as far forward as possible and most of the Gurney cut off. (They don't use the pre-molded dimples. Mounting hole is as far back as possible while the body clip is still horizontal.) All X-Team drivers carry several wings with different Gurneys on them so they have what they need for every track.

As you point out, it's an easy change and makes a big difference in handling and flying.

[GML]

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/225106_557070499430_33900660_31856658_2040691_n.jp g


What's the most reliable way to hold a shorty lipo here ?

[YoungChazz]

I'll let Paul answer that definitively. I think he just clamps it down tight.

Ian, you can see in GML's pic how Paul has mounted the wing as far forward as possible. He had to cut out a big piece from the front of it to fit the shock tower. This wing has lots of Gurney still on it for a shorter, tighter track. Longer straight = less Gurney.

[bandyleg]

That brace on the gearbox is that some thing that is available and how much difference does it make?

[YoungChazz]

That's a DDP 023 Transmission Brace. Stiffens things way up. Particularly good on blue groove, developed by Brian Kinwald.

I believe X Factory UK has them.

[Paul_Sinclair]

What's the most reliable way to hold a shorty lipo here ?

I use two small scraps of CF (cut pieces off a broken shocktower, old battery strap, etc) to hold it in there. With the battery strap off, I place the shorty in the car and center it, then I glue some small CF pieces to the chassis floor on either side of the battery, tight against it. Pretty easy overall, works well.

You can see one of the pieces on the right side of that picture, just peaking out from underneath the battery strap.

[Shimmy]

Just wondering...

Whats the use of the shorty pack in an X6?

Unless it's just me, but I find the X6 just does not perform without a heap of weight (I have over 100g of lead in mine, 75 of that under the lipo).
Or is it just to be able to have the weight more centralized?

[/tobys]

That's a DDP 023 Transmission Brace. Stiffens things way up. Particularly good on blue groove, developed by Brian Kinwald.

I believe X Factory UK has them.

I think it works well indoors on carpet; preferred mine with it on this winter.

Haven't run outside on Astro with it though so can't comment on that...

[super__dan]

Just wondering...

Whats the use of the shorty pack in an X6?

Unless it's just me, but I find the X6 just does not perform without a heap of weight (I have over 100g of lead in mine, 75 of that under the lipo).
Or is it just to be able to have the weight more centralized?

Can't say conclusively as I've not tested it yet but on high grip the weight more centralised should work, though our cars are funny things and sometimes defy convention.

[ianjoyner]

Is it just me who's confused by the rear side discussion moving onto the stubby thread and vice versa? :p

On the rear tower, is the difficulty changing the rear link positions due to the stud not being able to come out past the spur?

I think in the UK where the E-Speed positions would be used this just wouldn't be an issue? I know it's not much help for everyone else, but it's maybe an incentive for X-Factory UK to make something available here.

[Mark A]

I,ve done this mod to my x6 but find the steering very inconsistent , has any one got a set up or are they the same?

[Lee1972]

Can't say conclusively as I've not tested it yet but on high grip the weight more centralised should work, though our cars are funny things and sometimes defy convention.

Yes when mine crashes I often swear it wasn't my fault :lol: