Set ups, tips, tricks, whatever you got...... Please!

[Skye]

Hi All,

As a newbie I think its polite to tell you who I am first of all..... I am Richard, Im in my late 20's with a long standing interest in RC Cars and racing. I used to race (if you can call it that) when I was about 10 years old but became disgruntled and then discovered girls and booze a few years later so took my eye off the ball for a while but am looking to get back into the scene now in a big way.

When I raced before it was only on a schoolboys pocket money budget so I was pretty hopeless. I could drive, but I was driving my Tamiya Madcap with stock everything against men and other kids who were bankrolled by the dads so it was my Madcap against modified Losi XX's and such like. After a year or two of this and trailing home near the rear week in week out I drfited away from the game.

Recently I have rediscovered my love for the game and have been investing in getting back into the scene. During this time I have spent hours, days, maybe even weeks on the net trying to pick up views and tips. That is how I discovered this forum, and what a forum. It is by far and away the best forum I have discovered for all things RC Car related! A big pat on the back to all involved!!

So what I have spent my money on so far....

Well I went to my nearest serious RC shop which is not that near at 33 miles away (many seem to have disappeared since I was first involved sadly ) I must have been a sales guys dream. I basically walked in with a blank page and an open mind looking for guidance.

As the guys there were all big on Kyosho that is the way they steered me and I chose 2wd electric as my weapon of choice.

So I purchased (forgive me forgetting the exact model numbers in some cases but I dont have them to hand to list just now) :

Kyosho Rb5 Sp2
Spektrum DX3E handset
Orca 7.5t brushless motor
Fusion Exceed ESC
Savox steering servo
Bionic 5000 40c LiPo batteries

What do you think to this set up? As I said, it was largely purchased on the advice of the guy in the shop who led me through the purchase.

I took it back to the same shop yesterday to get some assistance with the soldering and I saw a different guy who advised me to turn it down as it would likely be too fast and end up planted through a wall....

So what I am looking for is advice and tips with things such as set ups and tuning / modifications. When I raced before as a 10 year old I just turned up and raced, there was no consideration given to set ups and such like so this aspect is all new to me. It is something I want to learn and fully understand though to give myself the best chance of succeeding so anything you can tell me will be gratefully received!

I apologise if you have seen threads like this millions of times before but I just thought it would be easier for me to find everything if it is on one new thread.

Many Thanks in advance!!!

Richard

[mattybucks]

Hi,

I'm at work so I can't really spend to much time on the thread but my advice would be for you to bring all your gear to the moto arena on a Tuesday night and speak to people down there.

You can also race, people arrive at about 6-6.30 ish.

I don't know alot about the ESC but the rest of the stuff you've bought seems good.

[RudeTony]

Hi yah Richard
Firstly if you are a total novice you may need to tone that power down some what! The equipemnt you have is close to winning a world championship in the right hands - LOL.
You need to decide where you are going to race the car and then we can give you some advice in setting it up right so it's giving you the most enjoyment.
The car you have is a great car and many will tell you this and that and the other but my plain advice for now is very simple.
When you can achieve a whole races, round different circuits, and you make no errors, then you can think about power and so on.
Till then you have nice equipment so go out there and enjoy.

[Ritchie T]

Run yellow wheels

[Skye]

Thanks for the replies all. You know what, that is good advice. Out if being eager I just want to get out there and be winning races. But it makes sense what you say, I need to just get out there and get used to the car first, drive in a few races with standard set ups and just get a feel for it.

Matt, from your post I'm guessing you work at Moto arena? If so then we have already met! I was in yesterday and you helped with soldering in the ESC and are spraying my shell for me.... I am planning on getting down there on a tuesday but was just looking on getting some set up advice beforehand as I didnt want to be bothering people there that I had only just met. Seeing as Moto Arena is going to be my main track for racing on then if you have any specific set up advice then it would be gratefully received!

One other thing, when I finished the build last night I went to charge the batteries and noticed that the charging adapter that plugs into the batteries doesn't fit the charger so I am going to need another adaptor. Is this something you will have in stock? If so then I will pick one up on Sunday when I collect the shell.

[mattybucks]

Thanks for the replies all. You know what, that is good advice. Out if being eager I just want to get out there and be winning races. But it makes sense what you say, I need to just get out there and get used to the car first, drive in a few races with standard set ups and just get a feel for it.

Matt, from your post I'm guessing you work at Moto arena? If so then we have already met! I was in yesterday and you helped with soldering in the ESC and are spraying my shell for me.... I am planning on getting down there on a tuesday but was just looking on getting some set up advice beforehand as I didnt want to be bothering people there that I had only just met. Seeing as Moto Arena is going to be my main track for racing on then if you have any specific set up advice then it would be gratefully received!

One other thing, when I finished the build last night I went to charge the batteries and noticed that the charging adapter that plugs into the batteries doesn't fit the charger so I am going to need another adaptor. Is this something you will have in stock? If so then I will pick one up on Sunday when I collect the shell.

That's a different Matt, I know the Matt you mean. You also have the club down by the rugby club in Silverstone which is also run by the same people who run the tuesday meetings.

I think the cells have a deans connector (a red one) whilst charger may have a tamiya connector. I sure it's an easy fix, I would just solder the correct one on.

[Chalkie]

For now leave the kit set up on the car and just put the correct tyres on, schumacher yellow minipins on the rear with stagger ribs on the front are a good starting point and will get better after a few runs.
But the best thing to do is have a word with the regular racers and get one of us to slow your car down a bit for your first few runs, it's easier and cheaper to speed it back up than fix it after you've made a mistake, and if you hit something at full speed with 7.5 motor the chances are it will need fixing.

[mattybucks]

For now leave the kit set up on the car and just put the correct tyres on, schumacher yellow minipins on the rear with stagger ribs on the front are a good starting point and will get better after a few runs.
But the best thing to do is have a word with the regular racers and get one of us to slow your car down a bit for your first few runs, it's easier and cheaper to speed it back up than fix it after you've made a mistake, and if you hit something at full speed with 7.5 motor the chances are it will need fixing.

I'd put yellow minispike on if your planning on running at the motor arena. It's more consistent on the tarmac.

[Skye]

Matty, the charger has sockets for what they call banana plugs, the battery has a red plug with one vertical and one horizontal slot. So I need a lead with the red plug on one end and these banana plugs on the other...

Chalkie, thanks for the tyre tips. Do you race at Moto Arena? I have bought the little programmer which hooks up to the Esc and have already taken all the advance timing off to slow things down a bit.

[Chalkie]

I'd put yellow minispike on if your planning on running at the motor arena. It's more consistent on the tarmac.

Spikes work fine also, but I seem to get on better with pins on 2wd. TBH a pair of each to try wouldn't hurt.

[Chalkie]

Matty, the charger has sockets for what they call banana plugs, the battery has a red plug with one vertical and one horizontal slot. So I need a lead with the red plug on one end and these banana plugs on the other...

Chalkie, thanks for the tyre tips. Do you race at Moto Arena? I have bought the little programmer which hooks up to the Esc and have already taken all the advance timing off to slow things down a bit.

Yeah i race there most weeks, more than happy to give you a hand if you get stuck.
Having only restarted racing 8 months ago myself i can assure you that even with no timing a 7.5 can be a handfull until you get to grips with it, I'd make sure you turn all the power settings down to start with.

[markwilliamson2001]

I found this site excellent for setups:

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/kyosho/SetupSheetsKyoshoUltimaRB5.html

There ae quite a few, and you can even see what tyres, and different surfaces people are running on, and get a feel for what things remain the same on the car, and what changes thr top boys make to tune the car in.

If you racing inside, the some yellow minipins all round, or some yellow stagger ribs for the front might be advisable as they keep the car nice and safe. See what indoor setups say on the petit site.

Hope this helps
Mark

[Skye]

Thanks Chalkie, if you see a strange character there in a week or two with a white RB5 looking lost feel free to pop over and point me in the right direction!! Do you advise getting my own transponder, if so how much are they?

Thanks very much for that link Mark, there looks some very useful bits of info on there! If you have any links to a tarmac set up please let me know as I believe thats what the surface is at what will become my local... Will definately have a read through what is on that link though, I need all the help I can get! :)

[Gonky]

Tuesdays at the Moto Arena (buggy night), the track gets covered with an assortment of carpet, jumps and bumps with the occasional section left as tarmac. Best idea may be to use the kit set-up and have a chat to a few people once there, all friendly and approachable so no need to worry about taking up peoples time as we're all there to help each other!

[Skye]

I think thats what I will do to begin with, its just a case of deciding which tyres to go for to be honest. Seems that everyone has a different opinion though... :eh?: lol

[Gonky]

I've only run 4WD there and for that i use yellow minispike front and rear. I think you'll be fine on either pins or spikes as i've seen people run either (personal preference i guess) but as it's your first time there the main aim of the night will be just to get around the track! :)

[Skye]

John in the shop there suggested Dboots to me, has anyone used these with any success? If not I will go with Schuacher yellows as that seems to be the common choice..

What format does the evening take, in terms of heats and finals etc. Will I need to a transponder?

[Chalkie]

Yeah the dboots terrabytes work fine on the back as well, they work just as well as spikes or pins but with a slightly different feel, and you will be able to borrow a transponder off the club.

[nightjar]

skye
im in the same sort of boat but at the begining im the school boy ive got a bosscat but idont know wether to use it or save up for somthing els
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

[mattybucks]

skye
im in the same sort of boat but at the begining im the school boy ive got a bosscat but idont know wether to use it or save up for somthing els
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

You could use your bosscat, but due to the age spares may be a problem, however Bosscat's make good money on a auction sites, or on here.

If you want to run 4wd my advise would be tosell the boss cat and pick up a second hand b44. Awesome car, very competative, and spares easy to get hold off.

[nightjar]

thanks for that gives me something to think about

[Skye]

Nightjar, I would probably look to go down the used car route to pick up a slightly newer model. I remember my time from racing an old car against guys with the latest tech and it was a struggle. Admittingly, my car was old and pants though whereas at least your car is/was a good car in its prime so you will probably do better than I did.....

The new kit option is out of reach as a schoolboy I would think as unless you are especially good at sweet talking money out of your parents / guardians then its likely to just be too expensive. Ive spent over £900 so far and Im not finished yet! :wtf:

You can pick up a bargain if you look in the right places for a used car though. If you were looking for Nitro then I would point you in the direction of Tooleys RC in Northampton. Last Saturday I took my old Xray XB8 in there and sold it to the shop for £200. That was absolutely 100% ready to race though, I mean literally everything you needed was already installed on the car. Because I wanted to get back into racing 1/10th Electric then I just sold the whole lot in one big ready to run package. I bought the XB8 to race but just didnt get round to it and when Tooleys got rid of their track it just killed it off for me as whilst I dont mind travelling to race for big meetings (if Im good enough) I wanted a 'local' to cut my teeth on and couldnt find a suitable, regular meeting to attend.

Getting back to the point though :p as well as my old XB8 (which admitting is also a little dated now) they also had a Losi 8 rolling chassis in the shop with thousands of spares included which was going for about £150 I think and he said it had been there a few months so you could probably have shaved a bit more off that price....

[Skye]

What would peoples thoughts be on which 4WD 1/10 Electric to buy. I know John at MA who sold me the RB5 is all over Kyosho so would have me buy the Lazer but just wondered what others like, and why....? :thumbsup:

[nightjar]

thanks for the help im looking at a second hand b4.1 factory even if its 2wd
ill have a look at the losi 8 and the rb8
thanks

[Skye]

2WD 1/10th is a good choice IMO. Ive just gone back to it with the rb5. I gave it its first serious run last night and it absolutely flies, the speed is immense! :thumbsup:

[gainsy]

I agree with Matty, go for a second hand B44 or B4, i just sold my Bosscat for £72 on ebay & got a second hand B44 on this site for £130 with a load of spares
I went for the B44 because spares are easy to source from my local model shop, worth considering what your local model shop stocks to make getting parts easy for yourself

[RogerM]

If you want a 4wd you can't get better than a Lazer FS2 ... ease to work with (needs very little love to keep her happy) and very very nice to drive. Responds to setups well but never violently punishes you for making a setup error.

I have convinced a lot of people to try them, all still have them!

[Skye]

@ Roger, thats kinda what I wanted to hear. I know a lot of people push the B44 as the 4WD of choice, but as I am starting out with the RB5 Sp2 then it would be nice to stick to one brand in my 'stable' but obviously that was only an option if its up there with the best.... :thumbsup:

On another issue, Ive been reading a few other threads and see people monitor their running temps of the ESC and motor.

How / where do I do this and what temps are ok / not ok. I have a Fusion Exceed ESC and Orca 7.5 brushless motor with 5000 40c LiPo batteries. My radio gear is the Spektrum which doesnt have the digital display (plan to upgrade this but having spent £900+ in the last two weeks my budget wouldnt stretch another £200 this month!!) All other parts are as per standard kit supply at this stage.

So how else can I monitor this and what is a good / bad temp range?

Thanks!

[Skye]

That should have said is the Spektrum dx3e which doesnt have the digital display....

[nightjar]

just got enough money for a b4.1 at the moment what does anyone think

[mattybucks]

If your going for a 2wd car, go for a second had B4 one was on sale on here for £70 with a spares and a LRP Sphere. You can pick them up for cheap money.

[Skye]

Hi matty, are you able to shed any light on my motor / ESC temp question please?

[Skye]

A different question, but rather than starting a new thread I thought I would post here...

Is there an etiquette that dictates if you drive in both 2wd and 4wd then you should drive two cars from the same manufacturer? This seems to be the norm, but didnt know if it is frowned upon if you dont?

I only ask as I have my Rb5 but the more I look at the Sx3, the more I want one!! :thumbsup:

I have never driven a belt driven 4wd before though, how do they compare to shaft driven? Obviously they are competitive, but how are they on strength, reliability etc?

[/tobys]

Unless you are sponsored by a manufacturer, drive what you want!

You will find some benefit in keeping with the same manufacturer as they are likely to share common parts, such as wheels, shocks, suspension components etc.

Note that Kyosho run a hex type wheel fitting which I think is sized unique to them - I have an X6 and an FS2 and both are ace :thumbsup:

It just means I have to have twice as many rear wheels as I would like!

HTH

[Richard Lowe]

Is there an etiquette that dictates if you drive in both 2wd and 4wd then you should drive two cars from the same manufacturer? This seems to be the norm, but didnt know if it is frowned upon if you dont?
Not really, lots of cars from the same manufacturer share parts ect which makes it easier/cheaper to run cars from the same stable.

You need to think about all the other stuff you carry too, is one car imperial and one metric - do you need some more tools?

[Skye]

Thanks guys, you both make valid points.

As my short list for a 4wd consists of 3 then you would think it would be easy to choose. Its not....:(

The shortlist consists of
* Lazer Fs2
* Cat Sx3
* AE B44.1

I chose these three largely down to the availability of spares, as well as them obviously being great cars.

Any decision I make is going to be a marginal one, so maybe sticking with Kyosho is the way to go? But then the Schumacher is made on my doorstep and is £80 cheaper for the kit... ~(why is the Kyosho so much more?) Then there is the AE....... :eh?:

[Col]

Thanks guys, you both make valid points.

As my short list for a 4wd consists of 3 then you would think it would be easy to choose. Its not....:(

The shortlist consists of
* Lazer Fs2
* Cat Sx3
* AE B44.1

I chose these three largely down to the availability of spares, as well as them obviously being great cars.

Any decision I make is going to be a marginal one, so maybe sticking with Kyosho is the way to go? But then the Schumacher is made on my doorstep and is £80 cheaper for the kit... ~(why is the Kyosho so much more?) Then there is the AE....... :eh?:


All good cars. The Kyosho is £80 more due to exchange rates and tsunami's...
I run a B44, but I'd get the FS2 if I were you. They're all potentially great cars but the simple benefit of running matching (rear)wheels, (maybe) shocks and suspension components makes it a no brainer for me.

Also don't forget that you can put saddle lipo's (from the FS2) in the RB5 if your speedo has the wiring set-up correctly.

[Skye]

Thanks Col, I understand what you are saying and have to say that I think you are probably right.

Having said that, the £80 saving on the kit would be me a few spare sets of wheels etc for an AE or Schumacher....

Oh I dont bleedin' know....... :wtf::confused::cry: lol

[DerbyDan]

Hi Skye,

Just spotted this thread after your post in the Bedford track thread... if you want, feel free to pop down to the William Knibb on a Friday evening with your car... theres a few of us that race off road & have raced over at Silverstone (myself & Adam - who replied in the other thread also) We would be only to happy to check over your car & try & answer any of your quieries.

It sounds to me like you've invested alot of money into this already - I would be inclined to stick with one class for a while until you are sure that this is the hobby for you before deciding on another car! I only do 2wd off road for cost reasons - I also run a touring car & a Mini so can't do everything!

[RogerM]

I promise you that you will not be disapointed in the FS2! An amazingly easy car to work on, setup and brilliant to drive.

Don't worry about spares too much as they are strong and reliable.

[markwilliamson2001]

I have to say, go with either the Cat SX3, or the FS2. The Cat has only just come out, so is bound to have a few niggles, than the FS2, which has been around for a bit longer, and will have most of the niggles ironed out by now.

I kysosho is also one nice looking piece of kit. :thumbsup:

[john333]

The SX3 is a fantastic car, and it's a British company (although some of the bits are made abroad) also Schumacher sponsor this site to go to the big race meetings! ;-))

[Skye]

DerbyDan, thanks for the offer of popping in with my car. I will try to do that, the next week or two I have things to do on fridays but if I can make the time I definately will do.

Im pretty sure that this is something I want to do, I was hooked since my days as an 8 year old trundling my Madcap round Burton Latimer community centre. I only gave up then as my parents didnt share my interest and my £5 a week pocket money just didnt cut it against the Losi XX and whatever else was hot property at the time. Then women and booze distracted my for a good few years but Im back on track now and want to pick up where I left off, and get winning a few nationals.... :lol:

What I need right now more than anything is somewhere I can go in and around Kettering to get some serious hours of practice in without the competition of racing to tempt me into pushing it too hard too soon. I have only once so far been able to open up the throttle in anger and it almost took off (literally, the nose went skyward and pulled a huge wheelie!)

With regards to the other posts, thanks for your input guys! I think I agree with the general consensus, the short list of 3 has become 2. So its now a straight fight between the FS2 or SX3.

There is obviously the sensible aspect to consider of sticking with Kyosho to have the luxury of some parts being inter-changeable between cars, and then there is Schumacher who's factory is only 20 mins from my front door so would like to do my bit to support local business :p

Ok so thats not a good reason but I am drawn to the SX3.

How do belt drives compare to shaft drives on 4WD cars?

[DerbyDan]

Im pretty sure that this is something I want to do, I was hooked since my days as an 8 year old trundling my Madcap round Burton Latimer community centre. I only gave up then as my parents didnt share my interest and my £5 a week pocket money just didnt cut it against the Losi XX and whatever else was hot property at the time. Then women and booze distracted my for a good few years but Im back on track now and want to pick up where I left off, and get winning a few nationals.... :lol:


You were doing well getting £5 a week as an 8yr old back then!! I must admit that I never raced (& still don't) on a massive budget... back in the community centre days I always ran my Mardave Cobra on cheap stick pack SCRs & mild modified motor... but on such a small circuit it was enough to challenge for the top spot most weeks against Simon Cook with his 4wd Lazer ZX!:D

Recognise either the blue Cobra or Blue/Silver/Red Cougar1??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DerbyDan/CobraCougarMeteorHornetgroupshot.jpg

As you've found out - with the new brushless & LiPo technology you can buy all the power & speed you need... & more. The beauty is that for off road racing you don't necessarily have to buy the most up-to-date speedos/motors or batteries to be competitive. Wheels & tyres, meeting entry & travel costs will be your biggest expense.

[Skye]

I have to confess, I dont recognise any of your cars specifically but they certainly bring back the memories of my time at BLCC with cars ranging from the latest in high tech to Madcaps (mine) and I think I even remember a monster truck (were they called Midnight Pumpkin??) being wheeled out once or twice. They were the good old days.... :thumbsup:

[john333]

I've just got back into it myself, and as mentioned above once the initial outlay has been made it's just tyres and travel costs that will cost any real money. When I last raced about 10 years ago I had to have 3 or 4 motors, 5 sets of cells, motor comm truer etc etc and the cost was horrendous!

I don't remember the acetone trick being around when I last did it either so even wheels can be recycled now!

Personally I think it's a very valid point to support local business, it's a good thing that companies like Schumacher and Mardave are around, and I do think spares etc for them are quite a bit cheaper and more commonly available than some of the Japanese manufacturers (only my personal point of view though!)

[DerbyDan]

I don't remember the acetone trick being around when I last did it either so even wheels can be recycled now!


I don't think I used to glue on my tyres... or use inserts! - until the soft compounds came out they were ok just stretched over the rims LOL!:D

Skye; The Cougar was the car I raced when I first started at Burton Latimer - I also won my 1st ever trophy with it, for 2nd in the A up at the Rockingham club. The Cobra replaced the Cougar & won many a race up at the community centre aswell as a decent showing in the Northants Schumacher challenge series :thumbsup:

[Skye]

Ok, so I took the car to a large empty car park last night to give it a proper blast and it is a handful! Admitting there was not a lot of thought regards setup (an area I need to learn!!) the only thing I did was raise the suspension a little to accomodate the bumps in the tarmac and odd nasty looking loose stone. I know doing this was not conducive to maximum traction but even so..... :o

After a few blasts up and down with neat tucked in turns I decided to shoot it down the straight flat out. It didnt just wheelie, it proceeded to go vertical, scratching all of the motor cover and underside of the wing before completing the manoeuvre by back flipping onto its roof!!

After this I was a lot more gentle when getting on the throttle so lesson learned I guess. However, on future runs when I hit top speed it wasnt starting that was the problem, it was stopping. Unless I started braking 25m before the end of the road I found it impossible to break without the the arse overtaking the nose...

Now this may partly been down to ride height as I say, and also the fact that I was doing the flat out runs on the downhill stretch of the car park which is obviously going to emphasise any weight shift forward but I was still surprised by this behaviour.

It always gives a conundrum regarding weight distribution, I could hold the arse down with some rear end weight. But then this would surely only compound the acceleration issues with a light front end!?

The other question this test drive last night raised, was can you actually ever go full throttle in a race? The time it took for me to hit top gear, travel maybe 40m at top speed and then stop it again without it spinning through 180 degreees (horizontal axis) must have been a total distance of maybe 80m. Do many tracks have 80m straights? And this is with the advance timing set at ZERO!! :wtf:

One other thing, the toss driver of the day award goes to me as well. :thumbdown:

I have always been a sticks man but changed to a wheel for the first time with this car, so as well as getting used to the car I have the handset to get used to as well. In the first few minutes of driving it, when going down the hill at maybe 80% throttle, I meant to hit the brake but instead hit the throttle full power. I knew what I wanted to do but my brain just didnt compute the to the trigger finger..... Cue the car slamming flat out nose first into a raised concrete kerb. :cry: I ran over to it fearing the worst, but to my surprise it was 100% intact. It had mounted the kerb and consequently scratched the underside of the front lip in a big way, but that was the only damage at all which I was surprised and relieved to see!

I didnt do that again either though so I guess its all part of the learning curve to handling the relentless power of this beast.

Once I have got it down to Moto Arena and given it a proper track workout I will have more idea of where it stands, but last night was enough to tell me that fun times lay ahead...... :woot:

[Gonky]

Once I have got it down to Moto Arena and given it a proper track workout I will have more idea of where it stands, but last night was enough to tell me that fun times lay ahead...... :woot:

That's the best solution really, bring it down to the track to give yourself an idea of what we race on and there will be more than enough people willing to offer help and advice to make the car more drivable for you until you get used to it and can handle any extra speed etc.

But as you say, all part of the learning curve and it's certainly a lot of fun! :thumbsup:

[Skye]

Thanks Gonky, I will hunt you out when I get down there...:lol:

I cant make it next Tuesday as I am going to Royal Ascot for the day to try and fund the purchase of my 4wd :thumbsup: but John from MA said I can use the track on a Wednesday morning so I might see if its availble next Wed to put in a few laps on the previous nights circuit without any pressures of racing.

Then depending on how all that goes, I will try to get down for the following Tuesday night meet.

[DerbyDan]

Skye; thats pretty much how any brushless equipped 2wd buggy handles on a dusty tarmac/concrete surface, you will find that as soon as you run you car on a proper track with the correct tyres the car will become much more driveable ;)

Moto Arena's indoor track is perhaps more challenging than most with such power - it requires a very measured approach, it took me a while to get the hang of it... though I don't now how on earth the top guys manage to get round so fast aswell as keeping it clean :eh?:

[Skye]

How is it more demanding Dan, is it down to an intricate layout or something else? I am really looking forward to getting down there next wednesday morning if I can so that I can put down some laps with the pressure off. My intentions are simply to try and drive error free laps at minimal speed and slowly wind it up as I get the hang of it.

How do you accurately measure the front and rear ride heights? Is there a tool you buy for doing this? I have tried with a vernier caliper, but with only limited success. Also, do you measure the height of the wishbones at the lowest point or do you measure the underside of the chassis itself?

[DerbyDan]

Compared to touring car racing where small accurate changes can make all the difference.. in buggy racing, set-up is alot less critical it seems - especially if you are just starting out.

A good starting point is to set the car so it rides with the rear wishbones just below level & set the front so its about the same... if you want to measure the height for future reference, measure it from the u/side of the chassis (I use a steel rule if I can be bothered). Set yourself a smidge of negative camber all round (top of wheel leans into the car) & so long as you have the correct tyres & built the car to the book you should be ok ;)

MA is a tricky track to master simply because of the different surfaces - carpet with differeing levels of grip, Plastic sheeting (protects features of the on-road track beneath) & the bare tarmac combined with the often large & tricky jumps & ramps means that any set-up is just really a compromise & achieving a clean lap is quite a challenge! But a good race is also very rewarding :thumbsup:

[RogerM]

How do belt drives compare to shaft drives on 4WD cars?

SOME shaft driven 4wd cars suffer excessinve amounts of torque reaction due to motor placement and thus direction of rotation relative to the rest of the transmission .... the FS2 isn't one of them (there is a reason the motor points the opposite way to most other cars!!)

Belt driven cars often feel a little "softer" in terms of throttle response which some people like.

Shaft driven cars tend to have very well sealed drive trains so so maintenance is both less frequently required and less extensive when it is needed (I rebuild my FS diffs twice a year if that, barely anything gets in!) where as belt drive cars have more open transmissions which can get full of crud.

Other than that it is down to the handling dynamics your after which car you choose.

The FS2 is super easy to drive, easy to set up (can just about be treated as a one-setup-fits-all car) and is never a handful even if the setup isn't 100% perfect. It's character is forgiving, rides the bumps like nothing else and has very strong traction. It is also a strong and reliable car that if it does break then it's normally not to the point the run is over, things tend to crack rather than shatter.

The SX3 obviously hasn't been out in the hands of joe public yet but watching some of the team drivers pilot them around they look more stable, predictable and generally more balanced than the SX/SX2. There is no way that anybody could say they don't look good.
I have heard that there is a potential transmission issue but the truth of that is I guess we won't know till it gets in joe public hands.


I know which one I would recomend, probably obvious it the FS2, but before buying any new car please please get hold of one to try, even if it's just a couple of laps.
Not all cars suit everybody, that said I have only come across one person who wasn't happy with the FS and I think we could ahve got him comfortable with the car if he'd worked with us.

I will say though that if you like the RB5 then you will almost certainly fall in love with the FS2 ... it's similar in feel but just MORE of everything :)

[Skye]

Thanks for taking the time to put all that together Roger, everything you say makes sense and is clear to understand for a relative novice. :thumbsup: As a novice to 1/10 electric 4wd then the Kyosho sounds the way to go to be honest, easy set up, low(ish) maintenance, high performance.... Im sold. Kyosho Lazer FS2 coming my way, just a case of when now I guess. Im an impatient and sometimes irrational person when it comes to shopping and spending money so every fibre of my body is itching to get one asap, but the sensible part says to hang fire for a month or two until I can afford it without resorting to living on the breadline for a few weeks. The RB5 hasnt left me much change out of a grand and whilst some things such as the charger could be used for both, in most cases I would need to buy all the electrics again for the FS2 so would prob have another £700 or so outlay to get it up and running. £1600 in the space of little over a month would hurt the pocket somewhat....

[Skye]

A good starting point is to set the car so it rides with the rear wishbones just below level & set the front so its about the same... if you want to measure the height for future reference, measure it from the u/side of the chassis (I use a steel rule if I can be bothered). Set yourself a smidge of negative camber all round (top of wheel leans into the car) & so long as you have the correct tyres & built the car to the book you should be ok ;)


Dan, what is the best way to make ride height adjustments? At present I just have the car set up as per the kit instructions with the only customisation being the springs wound down on the shocks to increase the spring compression tension a little. Would you suggest moving the shocks to other mounting positions?

[DerbyDan]

Dan, what is the best way to make ride height adjustments? At present I just have the car set up as per the kit instructions with the only customisation being the springs wound down on the shocks to increase the spring compression tension a little. Would you suggest moving the shocks to other mounting positions?

Yes to alter the ride height you simply wind the threaded collers on the shocks up & down to suit. The spring length should be such that it will allow ride height adjustment without affecting the pre-load on the spring, I would leave the shock angles as Kyosho outline in the instruction manual for the time being.

[john333]

In answer to one of your questions, there are occasions when you would either never or very briefly reach full throttle on a track, at my club last night I was on full chat for maybe 1 second per lap!

Some drivers seem to use the speedo as an on/off switch, ie blipping to full throttle all the time, but they tend to be the drivers hitting every track marker on their way round! lol. (and have cooking hot motors)

Also, another rule of thumb is to have the driveshafts level when the car is sat on the bench.

[Skye]

Thanks Guys, I know it seems like I have a million questions at the moment going off on a thousand tangents all at once so really appreciate you taking the time to answer them. I have about a million more questions to ask but I will try to keep it to a sensible number each day... :thumbsup:

[john333]

Thanks Guys, I know it seems like I have a million questions at the moment going off on a thousand tangents all at once so really appreciate you taking the time to answer them. I have about a million more questions to ask but I will try to keep it to a sensible number each day... :thumbsup:

No worries, keep 'em coming! ;)

[john333]

As much as it pains me to recommend a car other that Schumacher (have driven them since I was 15!) Roger does make a good argument for the Kyosho in your case (and.......they........are.........good........... ............cars.........) that took some saying!! lol

[Skye]

:lol: To be honest its a tough call for me. I was swaying towards the Schumacher but Rogers point of shaft drives being lower maintenance than belt drives is obviously quite a big factor when you are less experienced like I am. Although I raced when I was younger, I was too young to fully comprehend set ups and much in the way of maintenance so that aspect is almost completely new to me....

If the Schumacher was shaft driven I think that I would have fallen down in favour of the SX3.

[RogerM]

Feel free to ask for advice when you have the car ... before you get the car please search for my posts on diff shiming and njc11's (Nick 'the diff-man' Caro) posts on building diffs and slipper setting. Follow those and you will have a near bullet proof drive line that is super smooth :)

[Skye]

Will do Roger, thanks again. Im trying to keep all my questions to this one thread so I can refer back to it to extract information at a later date. When I get the car I will make sure to dig out the posts you mention. :thumbsup:

[Skye]

I've been quiet for a few days now to give you all a rest from my questions :p ....but I have a couple for you now.....?

Firstly, as someone who built my first kit when assembling my RB5 recently I have no clue if I have the slipper set correctly. How can I tell? The car goes well enough, so Im fairly confident that its not horrifically wrong but how do I know if it is set 'right'?

Secondly, regarding the ongoing saga of what 4wd.... I was settled on the FS2. It was a case of when rather than if. Tonight though I have seen that the DEX410 is now available at £299. This has always been a car that I considered a little too pricey so overlooked it but am now wondering if I shoud reconsider?

That said, the general consensus on here seems to be that they are set up heavily dependant, so as a novice to the technical element of this game (set ups and maintenance etc) would I be better off sticking to the FS2 or taking the plunge with a DEX410?

Thanks guys.....:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[RogerM]

All I will say is that I know of a few people who had trouble getting to grips with the Durango (it's a very aggressive car to drive) and move to the FS/FS2 ... all have stayed with the Kyosho.

I only know of one person to go from the Lazer to a Durango and he works for Durango now ....

Other than that I'll leave it up to you

[Skye]

Thanks Roger, you kind of confirmed what I was already thinking... I dont think the Durango is the right car for me at this stage of my career. I need simple to set up and maintain, and I dont think that is the Durango.

Was anyone at Moto Arena last night for the racing? If so, what number of laps were people putting in during a 5 minute race?

I went down there this morning and drove the track. I loved it, I was getting worn out early on running up and down the steps from the rostrum doing my own marshalling but was stringing together some good sequences of laps by the end. I doubt whether I was at race pace but I was putting together 10+ laps on a regular basis without ending on my roof or beaching it on the hoses so I was pretty pleased with that.

I would be interested to know how many laps others were completing so I know just how slow I was going... :p

[Gonky]

I think 15 laps was the max over a 5 minute race in qualifying at Moto Arena last night, not sure if someone managed to squeeze in a 16 lapper though.

[Skye]

Thanks Gonky. Still a bit of work to be done on my 11 laps then.....:lol:

[DerbyDan]

Sounds like you were doing ok considering the self-marshalling :thumbsup:

Putting in clean laps is half the battle at Moto Arena ;)

[Skye]

Dan, the 11 laps was done with a clean(ish) run where no marshalling was required. At the end of the practice session I was keen to string some decent laps together so whilst I wanted to go quickish, I concentrated on keeping it on 4 wheels. I still clipped the odd kerb, but no flip, rolls or getting beached so there was definate improvement in the session. I managed 3 consecutive runs, each with 10 or more laps where I didnt need to marshall so I was quite pleased with that. My pace sounds like it was about 4 laps down which is obviously a lot but for my first ever time with a car on a track since my Madcap days about 15 years ago I was Reasonably satisfied. I am going to have to get down there on a few tuesday nights now and just keep trying to improve....

[RogerM]

If your going to MotoArena I think there are quite a few Kyosho runners that are regular there.

[Skye]

Has anyone ever bought a kit to assemble and found there to be any shortages in the box? I bought a B44.1 yesterday (I didnt see it coming either, it was FS2 all the way but had a last minute change of heart!?) and the first assembly is of the front and rear diff / gearbox.

When counting out the thrust balls the pack only contained 11 instead of 12. :( Has something like this happened to anyone else before? I know accidents can happen, but this has been a big pain for me. I started the build last night and the last thing I wanted was to have to stop due to a shortage of parts in the packet!! I just hope all the other quantities are correct otherwise I wont be happy......

I have ordered a pack of 6 replacements from MK-Racing so hopefully they will arrive asap so I can continue and get the rear gearbox completed.

If anyone from MK is on here and sees this, please please please send them as I'm dying to get it built! :thumbsup:

This (quite big) problem aside, first impressions of the build are good. I much prefer the way everything is bagged together for each stage of the build, as whilst it wasnt a big issue I wasnt keen on the way for the RB5 I had to keep looking for the right parts on the plastic components 'tree'.

My only other gripe, which is probably my fault is not having the right tools. I have a complete set of metric hex drivers from building the RB5 but found out straight away that the B44.1 is imperial. When it told me I needed a 3/8" driver to screw together the front gearbox my heart sank. None of my metric equivalents are even close enough to make do.... :cry:

I have also ordered a set of imperial drivers from MK, although curiously not one set (even the AE branded set) listed a 3/8" hex driver. They all though list a 0.050. Why do they list an imperial driver in a metric size? So I am hoping that there is a driver in there that will suffice as I flicked through the instructions and saw that 3/8" keeps popping up regularly!? If not then..... :cry::cry:

[gainsy]

Mk are usually really fast sending stuff out so expect it soon :)
I would order a bag of diff shims as well as you don't get enough in the kit, part number as3911, it says to put 4 one side & 3 the other but you will probably need 6 & 4/5, put more on the short outdrive than the other side, this should give you a nice mesh on the gears
Enjoy the build :)

[Skye]

Thats good to know! :thumbsup:

Thanks for the advice on the shims as well, I will get some ordered tonight.

When building the front diff and tightening it down I wasnt 100% certain how much to tighten it. IF I understood the diagram correctly it told me to fully tighten the screw, and then unscrew it by 1/8th a turn to get the correct kit setting. Does this sound about right? :confused:

[gainsy]

When your tightening it up just do it bit by bit, don't do it up completely or you could flatten the diff balls a bit, as it starts to feel tight hold both outdrives( i usually stick 1 side in a vice) & stick a allen key through the other side, then try & turn the centre pulley, if you can turn it it's to loose, just tighten a little at a time till you cant turn it, then your diff is set sweet, check it's still tight after your first run, when the car is assembled i think the diff should spin for no more than 1 second then stop, works nice for my car :)
Also loads of black grease on the thrust balls so they stay in place when you put them in the outdrive
Hope that makes sense
Gainsy

[gainsy]

Forgot to say the idea of the shims is to stop the diff moving sideways, just add enough so it sits nice but still spins freely

[Skye]

Yeah that makes sense, thanks mate. I just hope I havent over tightened the front already then. I didnt burst a blood vessel on it or anything but because I thought it was telling me to fully tighten and then unscrew by 1/8 turn I did tighten it by hand until the resistance meant I would have had to adjust my grip to turn it anymore. I then released it by 1/8 as that was my interpretation of the instructions....!?

[gainsy]

I think it's just the carbide balls that flatten, as long as the diff feels smooth but not loose you will be fine :)
Don't forget the threadlock on the alloy motor mounts as well, there is also a thread in the associated section about the steering assembly locking up if not put together exactly right, didn't have a problem myself as got mine second hand but worth a look before you get to it
Any more probs just pm me mate & enjoy building it :)

[Skye]

Thanks Gainsy, I appreciate the advice. If I need any more I will give you a shout! :thumbsup:

[Skye]

With regards to building the B44.1 (assuming the thrust balls and hex drivers have turned up today) what nut drivers am I going to need? Im assuming these will be imperial too!?

Can anyone who has built at B44.1 tell me what size imperial nut drivers I am going to need please?

When I built the RB5 I had a metric wrench included, nothing fancy but it did the job. AE dont appear to include anything like this though so guess I will need to go out and buy some imperial nut drivers?

So what sizes should I get please?

Thanks :thumbsup:

[tellor]

All of that info should be in the manual on the first page on the left, or behind the front cover

[Skye]

It may be so, but I wanted to get them ordered today while I was at work. If I wait until tonight its another day lost and I am impatient.... :lol:

Thanks though! :thumbsup:

[tellor]

Best advice I can give is download a copy of a B44.1 exploded view and B44.1 manual, they're dead easy to find

That way you can have a copy at all times without having to wait and ask for the possible wrong answer!

[Skye]

Good thinking, I'm on it! Thanks very much!

[gainsy]

It don't tell you in the manual
I use 11/32 for the wheel nuts, 1/4 for shock mount nuts & 3/16 for the others
Hope that helps

[tellor]

Correct, my bad

It's not in the B44.1 manual, but it is in the B44 manual on page 2

Skye, download the B44 manual as well, it may have have other info that you may need such as diff tips and handling etc that may not be in the B44.1

[/tobys]

With regards to building the B44.1 (assuming the thrust balls and hex drivers have turned up today) what nut drivers am I going to need? Im assuming these will be imperial too!?

Can anyone who has built at B44.1 tell me what size imperial nut drivers I am going to need please?

When I built the RB5 I had a metric wrench included, nothing fancy but it did the job. AE dont appear to include anything like this though so guess I will need to go out and buy some imperial nut drivers?

So what sizes should I get please?

Thanks :thumbsup:

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73502

[Skye]

Thanks for all the responses, you have been a big help as always! That link would have been perfect, but I ordered some from modelsport when I saw Gainsy' post. Thanks very much though, much appreciated!

[Skye]

Just a quick question for you all, how strong is carbon fibre? I am assuming that as many premium kits choose to use it ahead of aluminium or plastic then it must be fairly good but just wanted the opinions of those who have raced with CF car kits.

My reason for asking is that last night I started screwing everything to my B44.1 chassis and installed the front / rear shock towers. I was surprised at how it felt in the hand, almost like I was working with glass. The front shock tower in particular is fairly thin and incredibly light. It just gives me the impression that it wont take much breaking, but Im guessing if this was the case they wouldnt use it!

So how does CF compare to Alu and Plastic??

:thumbsup:

[gainsy]

Personally never had a problem with cf, never snapped any but know it has been done, especially to the upper chassis's, there are various ways to make it flex more but that involves cutting parts of the carbon fibre away, there is a thread in the associated section on flexing
The front shock mounts are 3mm thick standard, my car has had a upgrade to 4mm, i agree the 3mm version does feel fragile but should be plenty strong enough really, although the 4mm version on my car does feel really solid & it survived a full speed barrel roll the other day when i was expecting it to disintegrate
My rear one is 4mm as well
I have heard of people glueing 2 together for extra strength but i would think 6mm is a bit much really
Never had alloy shock mounts but i expect the worst you could do to them is bend them, remember breaking plenty of plastic one's
Pics of my shock mounts below, dunno where they came from but i could always ask the guy i got the car off for you

[Skye]

Thanks Gainsy. The 4mm shock mount you have does look like it could take some stick! I will give the standard kit parts a try and see how they go. If I manage to kill it (quite possible :woot:) then I will give you a shout re the 4mm versions.

[/tobys]

B44 front towers go quite often after a big off. The .1 is slightly thicker but it used to be quite a common upgrade to get thicker towers. When I had my B44, I used the Atomic Carbon ones as these were 4mm thick. I have also heard that the alloy tower mounts help reduce breakages (by stiffening everything up). They are AE Factory Team option parts and can be bought from any decent AE retailer - check out places like DMS and MK Racing if you are struggling.

[Skye]

That's top info, thanks very much. I will give the CF kit option a go but will get some spares in ready and waiting just in case....

[Skye]

Bring on the racing, both cars now ready to roll!! :thumbsup:

[Skye]

Rb5 Sp2

[gainsy]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Have a great weekend racing

[Skye]

Ok, so now I have both cars built and raring to go I need some track time with them!! :thumbsup:

I live in north Northamptonshire, so am 35 mins from Silverstone, 25 mins from Huntingdon, 40 mins from Leicester, 40 mins from Coventry.....

So..... without having to travel the length of the country are there any tracks within say a 90 minute one way trip that I can freely practice on?

Failing that, do any of the midlands tracks have any race meetings on? I would prefer not to race to be honest, simply as I have never driven the B44.1 a yard yet and havent raced for nearly 20 years so am going to be seriously rusty and have no clue on how the car will handle or set ups.

As a result I am thinking racing may just tempt me to push too hard and stack the car!! :cry: :cry:

But, I am going to have to take the plunge and race soon, I would just prefer a little practice time first!

If there is anywhere suitable then suggestions will be greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:

[gainsy]

Providing you have a BRCA licence you can practice here everyday
http://www.hertsnitromodelclub.co.uk/index.php?ID=6
£10 non members

[Gonky]

Members of the Silverstone club (SRCMCC) can practice at the outdoor track pretty much when ever they want as part of the membership. Just park up and take the short walk to the track! :thumbsup:

[/tobys]

Ok, so now I have both cars built and raring to go I need some track time with them!! :thumbsup:

I live in north Northamptonshire, so am 35 mins from Silverstone, 25 mins from Huntingdon, 40 mins from Leicester, 40 mins from Coventry.....

So..... without having to travel the length of the country are there any tracks within say a 90 minute one way trip that I can freely practice on?

Failing that, do any of the midlands tracks have any race meetings on? I would prefer not to race to be honest, simply as I have never driven the B44.1 a yard yet and havent raced for nearly 20 years so am going to be seriously rusty and have no clue on how the car will handle or set ups.

As a result I am thinking racing may just tempt me to push too hard and stack the car!! :cry: :cry:

But, I am going to have to take the plunge and race soon, I would just prefer a little practice time first!

If there is anywhere suitable then suggestions will be greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:

Broxtowe (5 mins from J26 of M1) race on a Friday night - usually someone there from 5pm-ish. Check in the Broxtowe forum for further details.

NDOR (3 mins from J26 of M1) race Thursday nights - http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=521569#post521569.

Coventry race on a Thursday night and if you are a member there, you can practice on the track pretty much whenever you like - for free!!!

HTH :thumbsup:

[Skye]

You make an interesting point there about BRCA membership!

I dont currently have a memebership so will need to get that sorted. Do you need this membership before you can race anywhere at all?

Could I race at Moto Arena on a tuesday night without it or is it needed for racing absolutley everywhere?

How much is it?

[Skye]

Thanks for all the replies, some useful information for me to get my teeth into.

How do I become members of all of the relevant clubs you mention?

[Gonky]

I think there's a 'grace period' before you need a membership card, 1 or 3 meetings i think but i may be wrong. certainly no reason why you can't attend Moto Arena on tuesday and join via the Silverstone Club and you'll be able to race that night.

[Skye]

Thats good news Gonky, thanks. :thumbsup:

I will need to get myself a membership with the BRCA and Silverstone model car club as a bare minimum by the sounds of things.

Just contemplating their winter series, but maybe that would be trying to run before I can walk?

[Gonky]

No harm in getting booked in for the winter series at Moto Arena as i'm sure it will fill up pretty fast!

Plus the first round isn't until the beginning of October so plenty of time to get the thumbs warmed up with some practice! :lol:

[Skye]

Thanks Gonky. Just had a look and I see you have to rate yourself 1-15 based on ability. At this stage I would have to be a '1' as I havent raced in 20 years and have never raced with brushless / lipo setups. Will anyone else enter in this class though or will I be involved in walkovers every week. :p

[Gonky]

The ability rating is just to sort the heat listing out, puts ability levels together so you race against people equal/around your level (as long as people are honest!)

All essentially competing against each other for the fastest time, but lower ability drivers tend to go in the first heat and the top drivers go in the last heat.

[Skye]

Ah I see, that makes sense then. So someone rated a '1' will probably be in heats with others rated less than '5' for example.

Ive just registered my details on the BRCA website and am at the stage of payment. What is the difference between 'affiliated' and 'full' membership?

[Gonky]

I think the only difference is that it's slightly cheaper if you join through a club to become 'affiliated' to that club. I'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong though! :lol:

[Skye]

I see... I guess that means as I am not yet 'affiliated' to a particular club that I would need full membership. Its only £2 more so will just go for that option! :thumbsup:

[Gonky]

Yeah, not much of a saving, although every little helps!

usually for most people, when you re-new your local club membership at the beginning of the year it's just as easy to do the brca at the same time through the club! :D