FS2 SP on the way?

[mof]

For starters, for example Amainhobbies has removed FS2 from their site, and a few sites have listed FS2 as "discontinued".

According to this post (http://www.rctech.net/forum/9475852-post1379.html) an FS2 SP is coming in a couple of months.

Time to start guessing the spec for the car? :wub

Big bores? Carbon top deck? Bulldog body? No more blue aluminum?

[/tobys]

Deffo Biog bores.

Doubtful on top deck.

Maybe new body.

All sounds good!! Lets just hope the Yen devalues some more so Kyosho kit gets more affordable!!

[mof]

Deffo Biog bores.

Doubtful on top deck.

Maybe new body.

All sounds good!! Lets just hope the Yen devalues some more so Kyosho kit gets more affordable!!

Top deck might be doubtful, but since the car is apparently way too soft without it for some tracks, it should at least be an optional hopup. :thumbsup:

[njc11]

Yeah i heard the same... September time apparently...

"The Bigbore damper, the new slipperclutch, and the aluminum battery post are attached. The colors of the aluminum parts are changed to the gunmetal. "

:thumbsup:

[Mr Eccleston]

Wonder if they will bring out an upgrade kit.

[/tobys]

whats the new slipper clutch Nick?

[njc11]

The usual by Kyosho would be the upgrade kit then a kit...

But considering there might be quite alot of little changes, mainly the colours of the alloy parts it may just come as a kit only??

As for the slipper clutch i asked the question and they didnt know...

At the worlds i assume they were running the slipper clutch found in the FS2... someone who was at the worlds could maybe confirm that?

[chricke]

by looking at the pics from euros, on redrc, tebo´s car match the things you guys describe.. pics here (http://events.redrc.net/event-gallery-2011-ep-offroad-worlds/?nggpage=19) (first 6 pics)
top deck, gun metal, battery posts.. etc.. looks kinda cool tbh. :)

anyone know about the "droop thingy" on the rear suspention arm that can be seen on this pic? what does it do?
http://events.redrc.net/wp-content/gallery/2011-ifmar-ep-offroad-world-championships/fri-tebolazerzx5fs2-6.jpg

[mattb]

Is it me,or is that a new narrower rear shock tower??

[njc11]

Is it me,or is that a new narrower rear shock tower??

Its you pal! :p

:thumbsup:

[NitroArgi]

Aluminum rear hubs are also new....same size bearing inside and out...

[chricke]

Aluminum rear hubs are also new....same size bearing inside and out...

as standard? :o

[NitroArgi]

I don't know about that...but I have seen the new hubs

[West Ridge Racing]

Something strange about manufactures wanting to ad more moving weight out to the wheels??? Stupid in every aspect. All moving parts in the suspension benefits from being as light as possible. That large bearing does not help on that matter. So hopefully same size in and out.

[tisher]

still looks like the front wishbones are being filed down:eh?:

[DaveG28]

What was behind the whole larger outer bearing thing?

[mof]

What was behind the whole larger outer bearing thing?

More durable. Or I might remember it entirely wrong.

[West Ridge Racing]

More durable was one argumet yes and it was said to bring more stability or something. Just more moving mass in my opinion.

[NitroArgi]

The old hubs were made by another company as a tuning option and Kyosho just add them to the optionals of the car...new hubs with same sizw bearings are Kyosho items

They figured after yesting that same bearings in and out feel more consistent all the time especially in 2wd.....details...:bored:

[mof]

http://www.rcdevil.gr/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/kyosho-zx5-fs2-sp.png

[Skye]

I see MK Racing are taking pre orders for these on their website now.... :thumbsup:

Slightly off topic I know so I apologise, but is it possible for a car to just not suit a person?

The reason I ask is this... About two months ago I got into the sport and went out and bought a RB5 SP2 and also a B44.1. Both were brand new and it was a toss of a coin as to which one I started with.

The coin fell down on the side of the B44.1 so I have been trying to race this for the last couple of months and just cannot get it to feel right. A mixture of understeer and grip roll has got me driving the car on tenterhooks just trying to keep it on all 4 wheels but I am sooo slow through the infield as a result it frustrates the hell out of me.

So last week I wheeled out the RB5. Bearing in mind this has been neglected somewhat while I focused on the 4wd so it has had no set up tweaks and it is literally as per kit build instructions throughout. I didnt race the RB5, just gave it a bit of track time practicing with it but it instantly felt quicker. Yes there was still some grip roll, but they were brand new tires so I expected this. I was able to choose a line and drive it though, whereas with the B44 it is all about getting around the corner, the line taken is just random and different every time.

So.... my question is, can a car just not suit somone for no good reason? I am thinking of getting a driver or two from the 4wd A final to take my B44 round and see what they think. If they drive it ok then I know the issue is with my harmony with the car, not the car itself.

Having driven the RB5 better though, then I also know that it is not simply me being a hopeless driver either so I need to establish whether Im not suited to 4wd in general, or more specifically the B44.1

If it turns out to be the latter, then having been chuffed with the 2wd performance in testing then the FS2 will be top of my list for an alternative 4wd..... :thumbsup:

[/tobys]

I ran a B44 last season and just couldn't get on with it. Since switching to the FS2, the difference is night and day. For me, it jumps, corners and take the bumps much better.

That's not to say the B44.1 isn't fast - clearly, in the right hands it is very, very fast.

The FS2 is not cheap though (either to buy or in spares) and I do think it is a bit fragile - shock towers especially.

HTH :thumbsup:

[Skye]

I ran a B44 last season and just couldn't get on with it. Since switching to the FS2, the difference is night and day. For me, it jumps, corners and take the bumps much better.

That's not to say the B44.1 isn't fast - clearly, in the right hands it is very, very fast.

The FS2 is not cheap though (either to buy or in spares) and I do think it is a bit fragile - shock towers especially.

HTH :thumbsup:

It does help thanks, at least I know Im not the only one struggling with a B44.1

I have also noticed the cost of the Kyosho parts compared to the AE as well, thats not so good....

At the end of the day though, I want to race and be competitive. I want a shaft driven 4wd that is fast and strong. The B44.1 is clearly very strong, I have given it some serious abuse and it keeps getting put back on the track and driving away unscathed. But I am struggling with the performance element.

Just a shame that the Kyosho kits are nearly £400 and the spares cost more too..... :thumbdown: If it means I can be more competitive though.... :thumbsup:

I havent given up on the B44.1 just yet though, I will see what the verdict of the other drivers are once I have got them to test it for me.

[RogerM]

The cost of spares is a little higher but it's mainly an exchange rate issue (as it is with Yokomo and Tamiya too).

The Kyosho parts are very high quality and wear rates are very low compared to most (3 years out of a rear diff crown wheel & pinion seems damn good to me!).

There are a few things you can do to make the car more robust, not that its weak to start with. Mainly it's just changing out a few screws here and there for longer ones or applying a bit of experience to the build (just ask, happy to help).
Due to the low wear you'll hardly have to buy any spares to keep it in tip-top condition.

The front towers are a little weak (not Losi XX4 weak though) but easy and fast to change along with being supplied individually rather than in packs with other parts. Not too badly priced either.

Only major recomendation would be to build the car with ceramic diff balls from day one as the supplied ones are a little softer than some other manufactures and do wear because of it (damaging the diff plates if left too long between rebuilds). Put the ceramics in and you'll get 3-4 months between regreasing!

I am still 100% convinced that it's the best 4wd on the market in terms of being able to get it to handle however you prefer and also reliability.

[Paul Field]

Skye

I agree totally with Roger.
I ran a Durango throughout the winter in the Ardent winter series and really struggled to get a good result. I saw Nic Caro's FS2 and Ellis Staffords FS2 at the BWOC and they looked excellent. I switched to the FS2 for the last meeting at Ardent and with it built as kit i put it straight into the A Final. Now the Durango is obviously a great car but it just did not suit me. I have raced the Kyosho for a summer season now and despite some large crashes i have not broken anything (touch wood). I have fitted longer bolts as suggested by Roger and turned the bolts around on the top shock mountings. I think this helps a great deal.
The Diffs when fitted with ceramic balls are awesome and have not needed any maintenance for an entire season and are still extremely smooth. The kyosho big bore shock springs are very expensive but Losi 22 springs fit and they are very cheap.
The other good things are that rear toe in, anti squat, front kick up caster and are extremely adjustable and it all comes in the kit. Unlike other makes where you have to buy upgrade parts.
I can't help with the B44 as i have never driven one.

If you want any help just ask.

:thumbsup:

[Ted Maul]

Have seen it posted and I have to say i think it looks excellent. My std ZX5 lives on, though it looks like my 6yo is in the process of adopting it, albeit with the EPA turned down a bit....

I'm tempted to treat myself to a new car, but am a bit concerned about getting spares. Seems DMS have stopped stocking Kyosho gear and they have always been reliable and helpful. Other sites don't even seem to have the basics stocked, W5028 spare wheels for instance ( I waited 3 weeks to get 2 sets for my old Lazer)

Always liked Kyosho gear since my original Turbo Scorpion, the Optima, Optima Pro, Mid etc (when I retired :lol: ) but if both me and my son start racing, i wont have time or funds to play hunt the spares, and heresy though it sounds, it might be less agg to by a couple of B4.1s.... and sadly, on the cost front again, I can get a 4.1rtr for him and a 4.1FT for me for about the same price as an FS2.

Is the market in the UK too small for Kyosho as compared to Associated, they don't seem to make much of a play (not fair to compare to Schumi being UK based company)

[Darren Boyle]

I'm tempted to treat myself to a new car, but am a bit concerned about getting spares. Seems DMS have stopped stocking Kyosho gear and they have always been reliable and helpful. Other sites don't even seem to have the basics stocked, W5028 spare wheels for instance ( I waited 3 weeks to get 2 sets for my old Lazer)

Is the market in the UK too small for Kyosho as compared to Associated, they don't seem to make much of a play (not fair to compare to Schumi being UK based company)

Thanks for the kind words about us and our service. At the end of the day, it juts simply was not working out with us and Kyosho here in the UK, there were several issues, but these are best to be left private between us and their UK office.

You can take nothing away from Kyosho, they have been a world leader for as long as we can all remember and drivers like Tebo prove their cars worth in all scales on an almost weekly basis at events everywhere, even Ellis showed at the start of the year what the FS2 "can" do on our own UK tracks.

The downside though is the cost, nothing coming out of Japan is cheap right now, even more so recently with prices dearer than ever and Kyosho has suffered from some rather steep rises over the last 12 months or so, "maybe" not helped by the fact it all comes through France on its way here too, but if you couple the Kyosho quality with the prices from Japan, it has made things tough... Also to add, that since the Tsunami and earthquake early this year that some parts have not been as free flowing as you would normally see or expect...

So simply put it may be the higher prices on kits/spares or availability or maybe even something else altogether why you are not finding so many stores stocking Kyosho as opposed to the likes of AE, having said that there are several good shops out there that do stock it, you juts have to look around a little. I am sure I read somwhere that Kev at Inside Line will be carrying some Kyosho soon in his online/trackside shop too, so theres another option for you all shortly....

[spenner]

As Darren pointed out Kev @ www.insidelineracing.co.uk (http://www.insidelineracing.co.uk) will be stocking spares for both the SP2 and FS2, this should be from next week!! :thumbsup:

[mikeyscott]

As Darren pointed out Kev @ www.insidelineracing.co.uk (http://www.insidelineracing.co.uk) will be stocking spares for both the SP2 and FS2, this should be from next week!! :thumbsup:

Including Orion motors/LIPO/ESCs/Servos etc?

[Skye]

Touching on Darrens points above, the cost of Kyosho kits and spares in relation to the other manufacturers was part of the reason why I didnt get the FS2 in the first place.

I bought the RB5 first on the advice of my LHS but then when it came to 4wd a few weeks later I was influenced by the cost and availability of the AE kit/parts over Kyosho.

Now I know the B44.1 is a great car, looking at the results from all around the world tells us that, but at the moment it isnt working for me. So I am going to get some better drivers to try it and if its dialled for them then I think I will look to cut my losses. I am a beginner so I dont expect to drive as fast as others, but when I was instantly faster with my RB5 with no prior practice or set up then it tells me something is not right with me and the B44.

Hopefully, the people I get to test it will have some feedback that the car is set up wrong and be able to help me out as that will be the cheapest option by a long way.

Failing that though then I will be looking for an alternative 4wd and with my preference for shaft driven then my options are limited somewhat. Add to that the fact that first impressions of the RB5 on the track tell me that we are going to get along just fine together and it all sways in favour of the new FS2 with big bores... :thumbsup:

Not just to save the £400 needed for the kit..... :thumbdown:

[mikeyscott]

Personally I wouldn't class the FS2 as excessivly expensive. "If" I was on the market for a shaft based car then I'd probably look at it more.

Cat SX3 once you've added the bits you NEED it's heading to £400+
Predator X11 - last time I looked circa £400+
Durango DEX410 - Before the current deals were floating around circa £400+
Tamiya TRF511/502 close to £400 when I last looked.
Yokomo B-MAX4 thing - expensive again - don't know how much.

B44.1 is good value, no denying that. The common thing from the list above are they either come from Japan or UK. Both are expensive countries.

PS before I get jumped on, this is purely MY observations.

[Ted Maul]

Thanks for the kind words about us and our service. At the end of the day, it juts simply was not working out with us and Kyosho here in the UK, there were several issues, but these are best to be left private between us and their UK office.

You can take nothing away from Kyosho, they have been a world leader for as long as we can all remember and drivers like Tebo prove their cars worth in all scales on an almost weekly basis at events everywhere, even Ellis showed at the start of the year what the FS2 "can" do on our own UK tracks.

The downside though is the cost, nothing coming out of Japan is cheap right now, even more so recently with prices dearer than ever and Kyosho has suffered from some rather steep rises over the last 12 months or so, "maybe" not helped by the fact it all comes through France on its way here too, but if you couple the Kyosho quality with the prices from Japan, it has made things tough... Also to add, that since the Tsunami and earthquake early this year that some parts have not been as free flowing as you would normally see or expect...

So simply put it may be the higher prices on kits/spares or availability or maybe even something else altogether why you are not finding so many stores stocking Kyosho as opposed to the likes of AE, having said that there are several good shops out there that do stock it, you juts have to look around a little. I am sure I read somwhere that Kev at Inside Line will be carrying some Kyosho soon in his online/trackside shop too, so theres another option for you all shortly....

You're welcome (about the kind words) it was you that sourced a shock rebuild kit and the wheels!

Commercially, I understand - my day job involves electricals on a somewhat larger scale (32mW data centres!) and there have been issues surrounding cost and availability coming from japan, mainly components rather than finished items as lead times for fully fledged systems are so long, most have coped with Tsunami impact. My concern is that the presence wasn't strong, availability and support weak long before the economy got Browned and the Tsunami hit.

In real terms, in the next year or so, I hope and pray, my son and I will do a bit of racing. He is 6, I am nearly 40 but have not raced for 25 years. we will crash, we will break stuff. Lots of it. It will take some family negotation for us to spend lots of sundays just doing our own thing, if we start shedding money and time keeping the cars running, Mrs Maul may be even less tolerant of our hobby.:thumbdown:

Bottom line is it has to be cheap and simple to run and repair. The ZX5 is fine as I have pretty much got a 2nd car in spares and if he drives it into the ground learning then fine, but I need some long term options and for the hobbyist, as oppsoed to the season racer, i'm not sure Kyosho is the right brand, sad though it is to say.

[Skye]

Personally I wouldn't class the FS2 as excessivly expensive. "If" I was on the market for a shaft based car then I'd probably look at it more.

Cat SX3 once you've added the bits you NEED it's heading to £400+
Predator X11 - last time I looked circa £400+
Durango DEX410 - Before the current deals were floating around circa £400+
Tamiya TRF511/502 close to £400 when I last looked.
Yokomo B-MAX4 thing - expensive again - don't know how much.

B44.1 is good value, no denying that. The common thing from the list above are they either come from Japan or UK. Both are expensive countries.

PS before I get jumped on, this is purely MY observations.

When you put it like that I guess you have a point. My perception was slightly skewed as when I was looking originally it was purely a FS2 Vs B44.1 and on those grounds then the FS2 was expensive.

I am slightly surprised as I havent seen any deals offering the current FS2 on the cheap in the way Durango did to shift the old stock. The big bore FS2 is being quoted at only approx £30 more than the current model. If there were some sub £300 deals on the current model then I could have been persuaded to take mr credit card on a shopping trip this weekend!

[Darren Boyle]

When you put it like that I guess you have a point. My perception was slightly skewed as when I was looking originally it was purely a FS2 Vs B44.1 and on those grounds then the FS2 was expensive.

I am slightly surprised as I havent seen any deals offering the current FS2 on the cheap in the way Durango did to shift the old stock. The big bore FS2 is being quoted at only approx £30 more than the current model. If there were some sub £300 deals on the current model then I could have been persuaded to take mr credit card on a shopping trip this weekend!
Keep your eye on ebay, there may be some cheap ones on there soon ;)

The only point above is that "no-one" has allowed for any add ons for the FS2 in the pricing, the FS2 is not imune to essential add-ons too, just depends who you speak to as to which ones you use I guess.....

[Ted Maul]

I should have added, I had a Kyosho Pegasus before the Turbo Scorpion - believe me, i'm not Kyosho bashing here, I have been a loyal customer for a long time, even if I did have a break from the sport!

[InsideLineModels]

Including Orion motors/LIPO/ESCs/Servos etc?

To start with we'll be stocking a comprehensive range of spares for both buggies. In the longer term we plan to stock Orion products amongst others but first priority will be the car spares.

I am currently in the middle of loading items to the shop and working out the initial order quantity, which is a most enjoyable I have to say..... :lol:

I hope to have stock in next week if things go to plan.

Kev

[RudeTony]

Good to hear you're stocking Kyosho Kev and not so good to hear Darren not.

Wherever you all buy from and whatever you decide you want to run in the 4wd class just remember that the Kyosho FS2 can compete straight out of the box with no NEEDED extras and I am sure it is in the £300 odd rather than the £400 bracket.
The only thing extra I recommend is diff balls, after that my car as is Ellis car is more or less standard - Darren does some nice trick carbon for it (not sure if he still does that ) but that is just a pimp up option.......did me just fine this year - F1 at Nationals and 2nd in my region says to me the car is pretty good or I am just amazine (NOT!)
LOL

[MK Racing]

Tony,

The new SP version comes with the tungsten ball in the kit :thumbsup:

Marc

[adam_u]

I made a comeback to the sport earlier this year and opted for the ZX-5 SP2 - there have been some 'interesting' driving moments from me so far as I find my feet again and this is what I have broken over the course of the year:

1 x front shock tower - trying to jump the big double at Cov and generally arsing around whilst doing it - definitely down to me that one - :blush:

1 x rear inboard camber link plate after landing on that corner's one wheel sideways over a jump.

and erm... that's it! I decided to rebuild the diffs after about 6 meetings and several long test sessions and swapped out the balls for ceramics in the process but that's it.

Mine is also built with the longer gearbox bolts (about 22mm M3 socket head cap screws - only couple of quid even at ebay prices), and the top shock mount bolts reversed which also speeds up changing the mounting positions so win/win really...

I was really very impressed by the quality of the kit during the build process, you know it's a quality product.

I initially thought it was quite a lot of outlay to begin with - maybe because last time I raced my dad bought me all the gear(!), but just because there are cheaper options out there it doesn't really make the Lazer 'expensive' - what's the B44 - £300? and the current FS2 is just under 350 at JE - about 3 full sets of tires difference in price which you'd go through without much of a second thought...

You're in the same boat as myself really Skye - having to spend out on everything at once (I haven't got around to getting a 2WD myself yet) is a bit eye watering and I'd be reluctant to buy a new kit so soon too, but if it's going to make the difference as to how much you enjoy the hobby maybe it's worth it? I'd wait and get the BB's in the kit though tbh or you'll find yourself itching to buy them anyway just like me :drool:

[Skye]

When I bought the B44 it was £280 and the FS2 was about £380 so it was £100 different which is a fair bit when you think that the difference was enough to buy the motor and servo.

It might yet turn out to be a false economy though as if I do make the change then I'm obviously going to lose money on the sale of the B44.1, especially as I have spent several hundred pounds on wheels, tires, wishbones, shock towers, shock rebuild kits, spring sets etc. None of which will be transferable to the FS2....:thumbdown:

As you say though, if I do make the change then I will wait for the big bore version in October. That's no so bad though as it gives the B44 another 6 weeks to prove we can get along and work well together. Otherwise she'll be on here for sale to fund the purchase of the FS2. :thumbsup:

[ryanlownie]

Like most things, you get what you pay for. I'm pretty confident in saying that Tamiya and Kyosho kits are both amongst the most reliable and durable. Both kits being more expensive than the common buggies on the market.

In buying a Lazer, you're buying a kit that's gonna stay together longer, stay in one piece longer, and last longer. Simples :)

[Ted Maul]

Like most things, you get what you pay for. I'm pretty confident in saying that Tamiya and Kyosho kits are both amongst the most reliable and durable. Both kits being more expensive than the common buggies on the market.

In buying a Lazer, you're buying a kit that's gonna stay together longer, stay in one piece longer, and last longer. Simples :)

I'm not doubting that, not one bit, but you have to appreciate that I am a hobbyist, not a pro racer and my son is just learning the art of reversing the steering in his mind when the car is coming towards him.... No car can withstand some of the accidents he has and will continue to have. Just as I did, even though i didnt start until i was 12

They have a good products in the Lazer RTR through to the FS2, good setups on here from the team drivers, good support from long time Kyosho fans such as RogerM who can answer all your questions, but if the company itself seems to lack commitment, where does that leave them in terms of generating new business?

From a business model point of view, Associated can capture kids with their 1st car (b4.1 rtr) and go right through to World Champ winning cars and anything in between. Most shops worth their salt stock spares and if you broke something trackside, you probably dont need to worry either.

Schumacher clearly have a lot of brand loyalty, home grown company, cheap spares, lots of availability, local team drivers, lots of setup info. Cars 'appear' fragile though from reading their forum, and lots of updates here and there. Just from perception you understand.

Durango, clearly quality, but user friendly? Again, perception is that they are high end, dremel this little bit, fettle that, little room under the shell etc etc, all designed for the pro racer only, which is fine of course.

I think the Kyosho products are great, they are solid, they are quality and look awesome, just as my Turbo Scorpion did 30 years ago - it was way better than anything Tamiya could muster and as for Optima vs Hotshot, oh do me a favour. These are not the issues. If i were a single bloke, racing every weekend with a decent wedge to spend, it would be Kyosho all the way. When time and money are at a premium, you have to sacrifice some of your ideals and maybe Kyosho are happy with that, only appealling to the proper racers and not the hobbyist, but the hobbyists of today are the racers of tomorrow....

It seems to me Kyosho have the quality of Durango without the agg, the curve factor of the Schumacher cars without the fragility and an entry level package in the Brushless Orion RTR that looks decent enough compared to the b4.1 rtr....

They have the products but appear to lack commitment to our market...

I'll shut up now and apologise for the thread hijack, but I am a Kyosho fan and it saddens me to see them go from a company who were stocked and supported everywhere to a fringe/specialist outfit

[Skye]

Im relatively new to the game as well and have to say that, based on the views and opinions of the majority on here I would say your summary is about spot on....

[09 lex 250]

Like most things, you get what you pay for. I'm pretty confident in saying that Tamiya and Kyosho kits are both amongst the most reliable and durable. Both kits being more expensive than the common buggies on the market.

In buying a Lazer, you're buying a kit that's gonna stay together longer, stay in one piece longer, and last longer. Simples :)

couldnt have said it better my self!! i have ot broken a single thing on my sp2!! ive driven everything out there and nothing can compare to this vehicle!! whatever the situation may be...save up and get the "quality" first over impulse buying.you will regret it as soon as the car you buy does not act right unless its on grove!! you always get what you pay for!! its like that in life in general!! the 44 imho is a total piece of junk!! durango is good if your running on carpet.or unless you have mr neuman driving it. schumacher falls into the same catagory as a durango..tamiya excellent car but needs alot of attention to get it where you need it to be. the 22 good car but is to new to figure out everything unless you mike truhe. just some examples and just some companies!! :D

[West Ridge Racing]

Have to say some words. Got both the Fs2 and the B44.1 before and the only thing I found AE better at was the price and avilibility of parts. Tje performance part Kyosho wins every time.
Look closely on all A mains from both the worlds and roar Nats and you will see how much better Tebos car kyosho are compared to the Ryans B44.1 cars. AE should thank thier lucky star they have them boys under their wing. Tebo would eat them for lunch if he just could stop making so many mistakes.

Kyosho are the better option coming from me who had about every car avalible on the market.

[discostu]

so what your saying is the b44 is better because its easier to drive. i found this when i had my fs2 it could be hard work compaired to both my tamiya and sx3.

[West Ridge Racing]

No, I am not. Tebo just push harder and makes more mistakes but the car handles the tracks better. Ryan and Ryan are more consistent drivers, especially Cavalieri.
I would not choose any of those cars today cuz I found Tamiya be the better choice over both those cars. I mean the 511. Easier to get a good all around setup on any surface. Hardly any changes needed when switching from low to high grip. Getting hold of parts is another issue though.

Indoors on carpet I found the B44.1 to be really good but that car needs a flat high grip surface to work well. much like the typical American style tracks. On bumpy tracks, not so much. Better go with Kyosho.

[Col]

Have to say some words. Got both the Fs2 and the B44.1 before and the only thing I found AE better at was the price and avilibility of parts. Tje performance part Kyosho wins every time.
Look closely on all A mains from both the worlds and roar Nats and you will see how much better Tebos car kyosho are compared to the Ryans B44.1 cars. AE should thank thier lucky star they have them boys under their wing. Tebo would eat them for lunch if he just could stop making so many mistakes.

Kyosho are the better option coming from me who had about every car avalible on the market.

No, I am not. Tebo just push harder and makes more mistakes but the car handles the tracks better. Ryan and Ryan are more consistent drivers, especially Cavalieri.
I would not choose any of those cars today cuz I found Tamiya be the better choice over both those cars. I mean the 511. Easier to get a good all around setup on any surface. Hardly any changes needed when switching from low to high grip. Getting hold of parts is another issue though.

Indoors on carpet I found the B44.1 to be really good but that car needs a flat high grip surface to work well. much like the typical American style tracks. On bumpy tracks, not so much. Better go with Kyosho.

For you.

I disgree with nearly everything you said!
I switched from Kyosho to B44 and am faster on every surface.

[mattb]

I ran a laser fs2 and changed to b44.1,the b44.1 has loads more steering which I think the lazer always lacked,the b44 has a much more consistent slipper and better diffs also

[discostu]

No, I am not. Tebo just push harder and makes more mistakes but the car handles the tracks better. Ryan and Ryan are more consistent drivers, especially Cavalieri.
I would not choose any of those cars today cuz I found Tamiya be the better choice over both those cars. I mean the 511. Easier to get a good all around setup on any surface. Hardly any changes needed when switching from low to high grip. Getting hold of parts is another issue though.

Indoors on carpet I found the B44.1 to be really good but that car needs a flat high grip surface to work well. much like the typical American style tracks. On bumpy tracks, not so much. Better go with Kyosho.



what a rubbish statement so what your saying that at the world championships ryan and ryan wasn't driving as hard as tebo they were there to make the numbers up what a crock any real racer would be pushing as hard as they could to get the best result possible.

must remeber your thery when vettle beats hamilton next time lewis wasn't trying.

oh and yeah you must be spot on when you say the b44 needs a flat high grip surface to work well i must have missed thoes emense jumps at the wolds and the dusty low grip surface they won on.

[adam_u]

It's safe to say that there will be lots of different opinions, brand loyalties, driving styles and preferences for one kit or another - it's horses for courses!

Not worth falling out over though, peace :thumbsup:

[West Ridge Racing]

Perhaps I should of said that Tebo pushed too hard and made more mistakes. Never discredited Ryan x2 effort. Of course they pushed as well. I said they are more consistent drivers. Tebo made more mistakes at roar but got away with it in 4wd. Take a close look yourselves.
And I never said they did not work on a slippery surface, I said they need a high grip surface to work well and if you think that the worlds track was slick I have heard otherwise from those I know who raced there and they thought it was high grip coming from much worse conditions when we race. Depending where you come from racing on turf and grass i can see that remark. Emense jumps? Where did that come from? Never said anything about that.
Every car feels different to everybody but in my opinion the Fs is the better car. I can only answer for myself because I race on very bumpy slippery tracks and then the FS is the better car. Why answer people if they ask if trashing someone's opinions always happens. Spoke my mind and thats it for me. Still stand by my word. I know people here who think the B44 is a better car too and they are free to feel that.

[Col]

Spoke my mind and thats it for me. Still stand by my word.

That's exactly the point. You previous post implied that you know these people personally and therefore it was not just your opinion but that of some of the worlds best racers.
My last laser was not the FS, but the SP. I loved it but found it fragile, so bought a B44 which (in my opinion) is a superior car on every surface in every condition. I couldn't care less what happens at the worlds as I'm not that good. My club is swamped with B44's because most believe they are the best car in those conditions.

[West Ridge Racing]

Good for you and your mates.

[Fabs]

Have to say some words. Got both the Fs2 and the B44.1 before and the only thing I found AE better at was the price and avilibility of parts. Tje performance part Kyosho wins every time.
Look closely on all A mains from both the worlds and roar Nats and you will see how much better Tebos car kyosho are compared to the Ryans B44.1 cars. AE should thank thier lucky star they have them boys under their wing. Tebo would eat them for lunch if he just could stop making so many mistakes.

Kyosho are the better option coming from me who had about every car avalible on the market.

Maybe I'm not gonna make friends here but here's what I found.

For me the FS was a disaster, couldn't find a decent setup for it, too difficult to drive and utterly slow.

I went to a TRF511 and immediately felt at home and went much much faster.

When you say Tebo attacked the track more, I think Tebo didn't have a choice, the car's like that, it's too agressive and this is why he made so many mistakes.

Funny you should say this about the Kyosho, when you race a MBX6 and a TRF 511. Each in its own class is the easiest car to drive and setup for mere mortals like us.

[mattb]

Maybe I'm not gonna make friends here but here's what I found.

For me the FS was a disaster, couldn't find a decent setup for it, too difficult to drive and utterly slow.

I went to a TRF511 and immediately felt at home and went much much faster.

When you say Tebo attacked the track more, I think Tebo didn't have a choice, the car's like that, it's too agressive and this is why he made so many mistakes.

Funny you should say this about the Kyosho, when you race a MBX6 and a TRF 511. Each in its own class is the easiest car to drive and setup for mere mortals like us.I used to think the opposite lol,the lazer fs is realy lazy:confused:

[Skye]

The point is that different cars suit different people, we are not all clones. For me, I struggle with the B44 and was a lot quicker with my Kyosho RB5. This leads me to think it's worth me considering the FS2. Others see this as a crazy move, but we are all different with different styles and the different attributes of different cars suit certain tracks / styles / surfaces better than others....

[West Ridge Racing]

I drive a Tamiya. Its the best car for me. Not that good of à driver and you do not have to completly slaughter the whole car to maintain the diffs for an example.
Here in Sweden we race on loose slippery dirt tracks and on high grip turf tracks. We have team driver for both AE and Kyosho and Kyosho have dominated on both surfaces the past three years. Indoors and outdoors. Thats is where I got my information from. Plus I have had all of the cars I speak of in my possesion.

[Col]

Good for you and your mates.

How to win friends and influence people:thumbsup:

[West Ridge Racing]

How to win friends and influence people:thumbsup:

I am a friendly soul and my attention is not to make enemies;)

I feel at this point that is was a mistake to bring up the whole Jared and Ryans situation. I should of just spoken my mind about the cars at hand and the fact that you guys only run on grass and turf mostly. Different situation from ours.

[Steve.T]

I think this thead shows the divercity of the drivers in our sport and how some cars suit some drivers more than others.
Myself I'm not a fan of the B44 and think the FS2 is one of the best cars I have driven in over 20 years of racing.....

[Col]

Spot on Steve.

I am utterly convinced the dingdango is a great car, but I couldn't drive it fast if my life depended on it!

[traffman]

I ran a B44 , felt it was far too unstable for me , couldnt find a balance with it.
Ran a Durango , found it too aggressive for me and very edgy.

Immediately felt at home thrashing a Kyosho round though.....ah well i used to run Kyosho back in the early nineties and this felt a natural progression for me.

[sosidge]

Better pics and translated info...

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=ja|en&u=http://www.kyosho.com/jpn/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=108031

[traffman]

I love there translations.

[kek23k]

Exert the strongest driving the latest "Laser ZX-5 FS2 SP", and Get the Victory indeed!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[caneye]

at least it's interpreted hex clamp correctly, and not hex CRAMP :p

[adam_u]

they really are some pretty minor revisions then - big bores being the biggest change. Is that the servo arm they are talking about or the arm the servo connects to on the servo saver?

[njc11]

It will be the new LAW42 which is in the new anodised colour... its the part that fits to the servo.. the standard item in the kit flexes alot!

:thumbsup:

[/tobys]

http://kyoshoshop-online.com/kyosho/goods/index.html?cid=99999&ggcd=LAW42

[Skye]

Just preordered mine with MK Racing. :thumbsup::drool::thumbsup::drool::thumbsup::drool ::thumbsup::drool:

[MK Racing]

Just preordered mine with MK Racing. :thumbsup::drool::thumbsup::drool::thumbsup::drool ::thumbsup::drool:

Cheers Skye, pre order received ;)

Marc

[werner1619]

I also see that the gear ratio changed to 2,6:1 ???
Or is the FS2 the same?

[barbara08]

I have the fs2 as well and there is a slight angle, but if built correctly you shouldnt have any problems, and yes it is normal.

[Skye]

Anyone have a latest ETA for this beauty?

The B44.1 is officially sold, shipping to its new home tomorrow morning so there is a space just ready and waiting for my shiny new Lazer!!

I want it I want it I want it........ :thumbsup:

[colt_seavers]

Anyone have a latest ETA for this beauty?


The Inside Line Racing website lists the kit as in stock on 7th October - 2 weeks from today, so not that long now!

[InsideLineModels]

The Inside Line Racing website lists the kit as in stock on 7th October - 2 weeks from today, so not that long now!

Just so you are aware the date I've put in is estimated based on as much information as we have right now. Hopefully it'll be close to that though!:thumbsup:

Cheers
Kev

[spenner]

You could always pick up a brand new FS2 from insideline racing at a great price, then if you really must add the big bores after.... Or wait for the new car which is not much different just some nice new coloured bling and big bores.

Both great cars...

[Skye]

I had given that sone serious thought John, particularly as many owners of the FS2 who haven't had the many hours required to work on set ups actually prefer the small bore shocks.

I have mine on pre-order though with MK and Marc helped me out no end with a couple of warranties I had with Moto Arena even though there was no personal gain for himself so the least I can do is give him my business on this sale as a way if thanks. :thumbsup:

[Skye]

Just to add to my last point....

Kev has also been a big help to me, particularly with setting up my Vega and plenty of business will also be coming his way. As MK don't stock Kyosho spares then ILR will get the lions share of my business for my Vega and Lazer spares! :thumbsup:

[gainsy]

Just to add to my last point....

Kev has also been a big help to me, particularly with setting up my Vega and plenty of business will also be coming his way. As MK don't stock Kyosho spares then ILR will get the lions share of my business for my Vega and Lazer spares! :thumbsup:
I have seen your driving so Kev should be able to retire next year :p

[racingdwarf]

I heard from Mr kyosho uk that this kit will come fully loaded with all springs etc,like the losi EU does

[Skye]

I have seen your driving so Kev should be able to retire next year :p

I want to say something clever in reply to that, but all I can think of are obscenities so I will bite my tongue..... :woot:

[gainsy]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Ted Maul]

I heard from Mr kyosho uk that this kit will come fully loaded with all springs etc,like the losi EU does

Full sets of springs? That is a good idea and actually makes the car pretty good value for money. Same for the new RB5?

[/tobys]

If this could be confirmed, that would be awesome if it (and the updated RB5) did!!

[Skye]

Full sets of springs? That is a good idea and actually makes the car pretty good value for money. Same for the new RB5?

I was thinking exactly the same, when you think how much a single set of big bore springs cost then it makes the car better value for money than the current FS2. :thumbsup:

[Ted Maul]

Any more details on the specs? kyoshoeurope.com is seriously slow and won't load from here

[Neil Skull]

I heard from Mr kyosho uk that this kit will come fully loaded with all springs etc,like the losi EU does

that's news to me!!:eh?:

[rcpower]

If you pay extra for them perhaps ;-) I for sure can tell you it will not be the case. Would have been really nice though.

Full sets of springs? That is a good idea and actually makes the car pretty good value for money. Same for the new RB5?

[colt_seavers]

Are these in stock now? I am tempted, even though I should probably save my money!

[ryanlownie]

I very much doubt it'll come with the springs, it would have been specified by Kyosho in the press release or on the site + wouldn't make sense for them to do so. The springs are an option.

Also, all the EU's I have ever had only come with 2 types of spring, not all of them. (And I've had my fair share!!)

[MK Racing]

Are these in stock now? I am tempted, even though I should probably save my money!

The 1st batch of kits should hit UK shops mid to late next week :thumbsup:

Marc

[Honeybadger]

The 1st batch of kits should hit UK shops mid to late next week :thumbsup:

Marc

:thumbsup: The wife will be delighted! :D

[Pedros20]

The 1st batch of kits should hit UK shops mid to late next week :thumbsup:

Marc

Does this mean the new Rb5 worlds edition will be out the same time?

[Neil Skull]

Yes RB5 due at same time

[chricke]

in the kit, it will be red springs front and rear according Kyosho japan...

[Skye]

in the kit, it will be red springs front and rear according Kyosho japan...

Can anyone with experience of running the big bore shocks shed any light on whether this is a decent enough starting point, or should some option springs get added to the order? :eh?:

[RogerM]

I would add the X-gear Orange front springs to the order personally.

You might want to consider Losi Green & Losi Blue fronts too (approx 1 & 2 steps harder than the X-gear reds), basically what I run more or less everywhere.

Red rears will be a good starting point yes.

[Skye]

Thanks Roger. :thumbsup:

So, starting from scratch what springs would you run front and rear, and with what oils and pistons? I have the Losi oil multipack in increments of 5 and don't want to be drilling any pistons to begin with so with that in mind, what springs, oil and piston combo would you run for an astro track, most likely to be Stotfold more than anywhre else.

[njc11]

The standard Pistons are 5 x 1.3mm and will probably be ok, but somewhere like stotfold i had drilled my fronts to 1.4mm and the rears 1.45mm 40wt front 30wt rear. Im still testing the new tapered pistons from Nick Gurnell on here.. As ive gone to indoor mode now,this piston set up was ok.. but will be trying 4 x 1.3mm front and 4 or 5 x 1.4mm rear i think! Same oils.. but maybe loose the rear roll and go longest links all round. (inboard)

I run the Green Yokomo springs at the front and Kyosho red at the rear.. I also run the rude bits spine weight 60g

Hope this helps... drop me a pm for any info etc

Nick
:thumbsup:

[Skye]

Thanks Nick, that's a great help. Once I have the kit and extra springs etc I will drop you a message as I am building it for any general set up advice that can be incorporated into the build.

Out of interest, why don't people run Kyosho springs on the front, you run Yokomo and Roger advises Losi. Is there an issue with Kyosho fronts?

[RudeTony]

I only run Kyosho springs and will be on Sunday at Stotfold (2wd) - if you need any help then pop over :)

Last Sunday indoors I run the new Orange fronts with a Yellow rear - car was superb....(2wd)

ps - many of the other manufacturers drivers run Kyosho springs too as they are the best

[markwilliamson2001]

Obviously Kyosho springs will be the best match, and for the money the best spec etc.

However they are very expensive, hence why the Losi springs are being used. I cannot comment on the quality/rating of the Losi springs as Roger will no doubt tell you.

[njc11]

Thanks Nick, that's a great help. Once I have the kit and extra springs etc I will drop you a message as I am building it for any general set up advice that can be incorporated into the build.

Out of interest, why don't people run Kyosho springs on the front, you run Yokomo and Roger advises Losi. Is there an issue with Kyosho fronts?

I started running kyosho springs up front, but find, for me they are not stiff enough. If you where to compare for example the Lime Green #75 standard velvet springs to say the kyosho big bore yellow...they are no where near as stiff.. even the orange isnt as stiff as the lime green..

I already had the yokomo big bore springs and just compareing them, the softest yokomo is probably about the same rate as the hardest Kyosho spring!! (im referring to front springs)

The Yokomo rear springs are too firm and so use either Kyosho Red or Gold and if i loose the spine weight sometimes try the white rear.

When i first got the big bores i stayed with the kit pistons all round, i was running indoor on flat smooth surfaces and so were ok...they worked well, this is where i decided i needed firmer springs up front, hence the yokomo green.. this made a huge difference and so started experimenting...

Come the outdoor season it was apparent to me the shocks needed work and this is where im at, at the moment... Im making a few changes as ive already said for the next worksop so will let people know..

Incidently, i know that Kyosho are testing some new firmer springs for the front, ones a green not sure what the other is.. if you read RC Tech as welll the general feeling is, firmer for the front.

Hope this helps!

Nick
:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

I echo what Nick has said, the Kyosho front springs (even the new Orange) are just not stiff enough for my driving style when used on the middle hole at the front. The Losi springs are decent quality so no worries there, that said as Tony has pointed out NOTHING is as consistent as Kyosho so if they produce a stiffer front spring I'd switch to them in a heartbeat!

Yokomo Green approx = to Losi Blue.

Again as Nick said the rear end feels much more settled and planted with the pistons drilled, I have settled on 5x1.3 (standard) and 5x1.4 (drilled) with 40wt/ 27.5wt AE respectively as the base combination that seems to work just about everywhere.

No experience of running the Losi pistons, in the 2wd I have blocked a hole in the standard pistons to achieve the greater pack that I prefer.

If you need any help just ask bud

[racingdwarf]

that's news to me!!:eh?:


LOL in that case reach accross the office and slap Cradock:D.for fibbing

[niggs98]

LOL in that case reach accross the office and slap Cradock:D.for fibbing

pmsl raise ya pimp hand neil :D

[carlin]

I have to agree with Nick on the springs.

I have been running BB's for while now but not gone into testing as much as Nick/Roger.

I'm still running the kit piston's still with no changes as I have been pretty happy with them as I tend to only run indoors through the winter.
I may change this once I start running these springs.

I have also run the Kyosho springs since day one as I couldn't get any Yokomo springs from any UK supplier (took to long).
Then I ran at Oople this year & i was struggling in few area's as the front end was just simply not hard enough I couldn't do much more with it. So Nick kindly lent me think it was set front Yok Purple springs. The car was totally transformed altogether & I could carry so much corner speed.

So I have now invested in the Yokomo springs for this year but I have yet to run the FS2 indoors just due to work & new home.

Nick,

When you get 5mins drop me your Worksop setup please hope to be there at the 2nd round just need to make sure get the time off work back from London in time

[Skye]

Next Monday.... Not long now!!

No need for anymore hype about that wild dog that was released last week :p

Now we have a real car to get excited about.... :D

[Fabs]

Just out of interest...

Why don't you simply use the outer hole on the front wishbones??? 54mm shock shafts and job done, you now have a much stiffer front end. I did that AGES ago on my FS, well, before I saw the light :p

[njc11]

54mm!!! dont you mean 46mm! :p no wonder you didnt get it working!

You saw the light??? Your going backwards rapidly from what i hear! lol!

[Fabs]

Yeah 46, whatever... Point is you're 2 years late on that one :p

Going backwards??? I'll have you know it's much more difficult to go fast in reverse!!!

[njc11]

:woot:

[Ole C]

I'm told that the piston holes in the new BB shocks are 1,16mm. So it's the "old" pistons that have 1,3mm holes in them then?

[Gayo]

I'm told that the piston holes in the new BB shocks are 1,16mm. So it's the "old" pistons that have 1,3mm holes in them then?
Maybe those are the 6 holes ones?

[Ole C]

Sorry, got bad intel... They are 1,36mm. The holes in the BB pistons that is.

[Stotty]

ino this prob been asked ALOT.
What is the difference between my fs2 and the sp apart from dif coloured ally bits and big bores ???? can the fs2 be converted ??

[JonyNitro]

why would you?? dont see the point

[Stotty]

Not sayin im guna was jut askin. Dont fancy spendin £200+ on making it pretty lol.

[njc11]

Other than the colour changes your getting a few different bits.

Different rear cvd's, battery thumb screws, carbide diff balls, big bores etc etc.. there are some other bits that i cant remember.. i have the exploded diagram of the new RB5 and FS2 so can see easily

So very easy to have a similar car if your upgrading it will just be a different colour! blue rather than gunmetal

Ok the price of the car might be high, but have to say it will be the most complete car out of the box... no reall hop ups needed!

:thumbsup:

[Gayo]

Other than the colour changes your getting a few different bits.

Different rear cvd's,

Really? They don't say that on the SP adverts...:eh?:

You also get aluminium hex hubs and aluminium servo arm.

[Hobie]

I'am even not sure about the aluminium servo arms. They just say better/tougher ones as far as I remember.

[njc11]

Really? They don't say that on the SP adverts...:eh?:

You also get aluminium hex hubs and aluminium servo arm.

On the diagram it says UM510 = 62.5 shaft with the longer axle...

This is the config myself and Colin May have been running for quite some time and noted a big improvement :thumbsup:

Forgot about the hexes (i did say etc :p)

No LAW42 though (ally servo arm)

Will post more info when my kits arrive today!

:thumbsup:

[Ole C]

Started building mine last night. Great kit! :thumbsup:

[/tobys]

What improvements do the UM510 driveshafts bring?

[adam_u]

I think they are used to reduce the plunge of the driveshaft so less movement of the dog bone in the diff outdrive throughout the working range - meaning smoother power delivery over the bumpy stuff.

[RogerM]

Spot on Adam ... seems you were listening after all ;)

On some occassions it is good to have a bit of driveshaft plung to bind the transmission a little as it will counter chassis roll and reduce diff effectiveness ... I have also been running this but took it out for indoor crpet running.