A question of Scale.... [Archive]

kaylon

17-08-2011, 11:32 PM

So..I have a 1:16th EXB-16 ... as the name suggests it's a 1:16th scale buggy.

So why do Carisma GT14-B's which by all accounts are a 1:14th scale (it's in the name) run in 1:16th heats in most events that I've read about?

Is this just how it's done?

Is that not like running 1:10th with 1:8th ?... bit unfair..

Do all main Micro scales run together ?... from 1:18th to 1:12th ?

Just wondering.

J

peetbee

18-08-2011, 12:41 AM

The gt14b is 16th scale, it is just the name, on all the literature it says 1:16
the two main scales raced are 1:18 & 1:16 and their races are seperate, apart froom 2wd (due to lack of entries)
This refers only to nationals!

c0sie

18-08-2011, 09:11 AM

As Pete says, the GT14B is a 16th scale in the same way that a B44 is not a 44th scale :)

kaylon

18-08-2011, 11:16 AM

Interesting...

You'll have to excuse my confused state of mind...a few supplies still list it as 1:14th, which I thought it was originally when released :)

CML themselves has it listed as both 1:14th and 1:16th on the same page...

"Part #CA55768 Carisma GT14B Brushless Powered RTR 4WD 1/14th Scale Buggy with 2.4ghz Radio System - Black"

Hence why I'm a little confused... :D

J

c0sie

18-08-2011, 11:20 AM

I have just asked CML if they could reword it to 1/16th scale rather than 1/14th scale in that case :)

Rest assured though that the GT14B is a 1/16th scale micro and races within the 1/16th 4WD class at our Nationals :)

sldmodels

18-08-2011, 04:32 PM

My understanding was that it's a 14th scale car, that fits rules of the current BRCA Micro 1/16th class.

peetbee

18-08-2011, 04:38 PM

My understanding was that it's a 14th scale car, that fits rules of the current BRCA Micro 1/16th class.
well that makes it 16th scale then doesn't it, or is the shark 14th as well?

c0sie

18-08-2011, 05:13 PM

As far as I know even the GT14B box says 16th scale.

racingben

18-08-2011, 05:52 PM

As far as I know even the GT14B box says 16th scale.

Got two boxes, both say 1/16 scale.

kaylon

18-08-2011, 06:40 PM

Thanks for all the info everyone :).. and thanks c0sie for letting CML know, that will certainly help clarify things.

I'm aiming to have a GT14-b myself by the end of September to add to my collection, they are a lovely looking car. Maybe get into some winter season racing :)

One one hand I love that there is a 'standard' chassis to drive atm to help highlight and improve driver skill...however on the other hand a little chassis/manufacturer competition is probably better for the hobby :) Lets hope someone else produces a new 1:16th buggy...maybe Losi or HPI, that would be excellent.

J

davidmog99

18-08-2011, 08:03 PM

It does not really need clarifying, its clear what people are running at the nationals, but its probably confusing. It says 1/14 in your sig above chris.
Anyway, whatever , its the best micro by far.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

c0sie

18-08-2011, 08:06 PM

Yeah, I really need to change that :/ lol

davidmog99

18-08-2011, 08:26 PM

Im entirely sure anyone would find out what they could run before it became a problem!
Im going for a practice day at the new 1/8 track at crewe (CORC, or Crewe Off Road Club, track loooks awesome) and my little gt14 is definitely getting first run. Im even getting new glasses tomorrow so i can see it at the back.:lol:

4_cell_racer

18-08-2011, 11:46 PM

Im even getting new glasses tomorrow so i can see it at the back.:lol:

I think a telescope would be better suited if your gonna put a micro on Crewe's track lol its a big track :-o

kaylon

19-08-2011, 12:44 AM

Off Topic..sorry....

Anyone know if Carisma are ever going to do a roller ?.... I'd easy pay around £90 for a roller chassis.. :)

J

4_cell_racer

19-08-2011, 01:02 AM

Off Topic..sorry....

Anyone know if Carisma are ever going to do a roller ?.... I'd easy pay around £90 for a roller chassis.. :)

J

Ditto..... I'd prob get back into Micros if they did a roller!

sldmodels

19-08-2011, 04:42 AM

well that makes it 16th scale then doesn't it, or is the shark 14th as well?

It makes it 16th scale under our current rules, but maybe Carisma consider it to be 14th scale, hence the number 14 in the name, unless they just put that in as they're known for doing 14th's, but why would they do that?

I always thought of the Shark as a fat Blaze on steroids, but even the Blaze looks a lot bigger than it's 18th scale cousions like the RC18.

sldmodels

19-08-2011, 04:43 AM

Ditto..... I'd prob get back into Micros if they did a roller!

Maybe they make more money of it with the electric included than they would as a kit, but most people seem to think the electrics are pretty good, better than you normally get in an rtr.

davidmog99

19-08-2011, 07:19 PM

it is a big track. Im taking the b4 and an ansmann electric 1/8 as well. It will be my first run in a couple years (bar a couple of hours on road at ardent), i hope i can get round the track! also dusted off an old nitro hyper 7 ive had for years. hopefully i can get some advice and someone can get it running, ive never had any luck with nitro.

kaylon

22-08-2011, 05:32 PM

c0sie

22-08-2011, 05:34 PM

Don't hate me :)

I've just noticed that the GT14-B is too wide for BRCA rules... 209mm for BRCA and the GT14-B is 213mm ... granted only 4mm, but I've filed things down for less before hahah

Is there something I'd need to do to make it fit the box so to speak :D or is this okay as is?

J
We have never failed a single car for being to wide at a National, which makes me think that something is wrong with your car :)

kaylon

22-08-2011, 05:54 PM

It's not from a car.. I downloaded the manual from the manufacturers to get a head start :)...

And noticed it's 213mm wide according the tech page.

If the actual car is fine then it's fine:D which it obviously is. Was just checking.

J

c0sie

22-08-2011, 06:04 PM

Can you send me a screenshot of that page please Jason?

Ill see if I can get that fixed :)

kaylon

22-08-2011, 06:55 PM

Shot is in the mail... :)

Thanks again for all the info.

J

sldmodels

22-08-2011, 11:29 PM

4mm's not much, but obviously it would be ruled out under the rules. Assuming that's with the wheels attached, what wheels are you using and are you tyres sort of bulging, overlapping?

Mad-Wolfie

23-08-2011, 07:24 AM

Sorry to throw a curve ball into the discussion, but is the 1:16 / 1:14 car true to scale.. when you compare a 1:10th touring car to the HPI True ten or the Tamiya Mini there is a hell of a size difference, yet the mini & the true ten are pretty much accurately scaled to 1:10th size, but racing touring cars are classed as 1:10th scale probably because a rounded number sounds less confusing than calling it something like a 1:9.34 scale for example.

So is it more a case of physical size to fit in the category for racing because a GT14 is basically a miniature 1:10th touring car, rather than a number that represents it's size compared to a full scale vehicle?

Plus looking at the GT14 & the GT14B, the 14B seems to be pretty much the same size (without having the 2 cars in front of me or a list of tech specs to compare i'm simply assuming) if you measured the dimensions with a 30cm ruler, however the buggy i would of though would be a couple of notches smaller in terms of scale.

peetbee

23-08-2011, 07:58 AM

It's not from a car.. I downloaded the manual from the manufacturers to get a head start :)...

4mm's not much, but obviously it would be ruled out under the rules. Assuming that's with the wheels attached, what wheels are you using and are you tyres sort of bulging, overlapping?
re read Jason's post Sarah

peetbee

23-08-2011, 08:02 AM

Sorry to throw a curve ball into the discussion, but is the 1:16 / 1:14 car true to scale.. .
You could say the same about most scales, for example look at the size of 10th buggy wheels in relation to the rest of the car - they would look more like truck wheels if you built it full size.

c0sie

23-08-2011, 12:02 PM

This is getting boring now.

For the record both sets of dimentions (1/16th and 1/18th) were written up by myself after literally weeks (dot the i's, cross the t's etc) of ensuring that all the dimensions were scaled up against ROAR, EFRA, IFMAR and BRCA dimensional sizes for other offroad classes.

There is reason behind the madness and those who attended the AGM where these dimensions were voted in would have heard my detailed explaination as to why the dimensions were chosen and the reason for their inclusion in our rules.

Also a 1/10th TC is not going to always be the same dimensionally as a 1/10th buggy. Just cos it says 1/10th doesnt mean it is working off of the same original basis in the same way that a 1/5th RC bike is not the same size as a 1/5th petrol buggy.

To summerise: It doesnt matter what manufacturers put on their boxes (as far as racing goes), it matters more that the car meets the governing body's dimensional rules.

A Carisma GT14B has never failed scrutineering at a BRCA Micro National.

Carisma orignally released the GT14B with "1/14th scale buggy" on their promotional material, when we approached them and explained the dimensional rationale they changed the descriptions to 1/16th scale buggy.

And that...fans...is the history of how the 1/16th & 1/18th dimensional rules were born :) :)

teamorsum96

23-08-2011, 05:55 PM

nicely put :thumbsup:

davidmog99

23-08-2011, 08:03 PM

I bet a lot of this sh*t gets boring mate.
Do people not realise you spend your own time and effort sorting stuff like this, only for bitching and moaning and generally awkward people to have a moan on a forum? Its not just you either, ive seen people moaning about other race organisers and events. It would piss me right off. Why dont they get off their lazy arses and sort their own racing?
Keep up the good work and ignore the w*nkers.
Id just like to thank anyone who runs a club, or section, or sorts the BRCA, or moderates on these forums. You have more patience than i will ever have.

teamorsum96

23-08-2011, 08:12 PM

Id just like to thank anyone who runs a club, or section, or sorts the BRCA, or moderates on these forums. You have more patience than i will ever have.
+1:thumbsup:

sldmodels

23-08-2011, 08:53 PM

re read Jason's post Sarah

He posted again, probably while I was posting to his earlier post. I was just thinking that he thought he'd done something wrong to his car and was trying to figure it out.

Cosie, when you say you haven't failed a car for being too wide, is that because there haven't been any cars that have been too wide, or they've just not been overly wide?

davidmog99

23-08-2011, 09:20 PM

I can almost definitely tell you they werent OVERLY wide, maybe TOO wide or just A BIT wide. It fits the rules you tit.
SLD can you tell me your dimensions on an OVERLY wide car please? Also dimensions for A BIT too wide or is there a newly agreed OVERLY WIDE limit?
I think there are rules regarding width that have already been explained above.
This is precisely and completely the twattery i was talking about. Good luck to anyone organising any racing. You will be subject to twattery. And have to deal with twats.:cry:

sldmodels

23-08-2011, 09:24 PM

What are you on about? Someone was concerned that his car was too big for the current BRCA rules. As far as I'm aware, the scrutinizing at the micros is relatively easy, if it fits in the measuring box it's within the rules.

espana

23-08-2011, 10:26 PM

sldmodels,davidmogg99 is rite ur coming out with loads of bull. on ur post above u stated that it was only 4mm to wide.to wide is to wide. thats like saying "we nearly scored a goal". also u said "were the wheels attached",(lol) hows the guy gonna race without wheels. if someone wants 2 know about micros let cosie or 1 of the more experienced guys reply.as stated above cosie did write the rules for the micros.

peetbee

23-08-2011, 11:05 PM

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/peetbee/smilies/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif
(http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/peetbee/smilies/?action=view&current=polar-bear-face-palm_thumbnail1.jpg)

sldmodels

23-08-2011, 11:43 PM

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/peetbee/smilies/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif
(http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/peetbee/smilies/?action=view&current=polar-bear-face-palm_thumbnail1.jpg)

That's how I feel trying to explain myself sometimes, is it me not making myself clear, or people just not understanding what I'm trying to say (or just dicks going out of their way to wind me up :cry: )

peetbee

23-08-2011, 11:48 PM

I don't think you understood what was posted, that's what I was http://www.oople.com/forums/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAB4AAAAXCAIAAAC TXWg9AAACaklEQVRIie2UIWzjMBhGI4NWyqTcKdLSydVZ6oA1P DipAwEFA4MBAQUBAwEBRyYNBAQUDBQUDAwMFARU1YGAaCoIKDA ICAgIMDAICCgoCAgIsA5UzbVp2iu4sftkGT79fv5sQfif/dzdqrX1L9F8pPKRylVArsEXoFVArr8AfaaQKPycTp5ts29p2Db 708lzFH5yzv829Ui9u1VPTO1Yg1dT+jWRY09ZkU40U2av321Dd KwBS6KTaBUcQ5NgbjyKgavkCSwoKijiKc4TmMdwRTre5NvTQIy W3hH09gIP0XG4sDQxIz9Khnja41mv2kuGihiuSCeeScaDSJOwA X3CtaXfJD4sKeIZ5mmPZ5hnmGcbOi4ZymO4Wire6MK27o+6Piw fCeavP6WCbuc9XGkvT+A6vGKe7BgiCebNrg/RY0cnU6WkaAMCAOyjMc96JUV51E192RtdjB292fVhr00NpwSWD AEA6tztOUqG8qibLS7DN8nSb851PXxQ8qhbULTl4p19q5uidQR TX46nkvEIG4Ts9uTPHWo4DeBp1wVFa6JQXwnfJEvDDUIa0WNHX 7zLRYzqzaucpL08hqtAYTPJfWlPnGEdXZW6hl4GLtjJ3gVWXNJ JfTn5EG29RQL3XNeCIAAA+DYbeslQSVFBUR5110TZWJ7ZLdvsC 7Wc/lTjcFHRq8HXEVyHV6ulzDw5cSUybhmDVvNrPNbrTUgw33GCs8V l6svMk9lMSj5E96VtDFoh8etc4WSvqzAa2da9MxS90UX4LiZTM XyT3Je2rbdss8/o8Z/vzP+aBPOxo5saHj4opoYnzrD+svfzG9EJ/Qm7YXxgAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h73/peetbee/smilies/smiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif about

c0sie

24-08-2011, 07:36 AM

Oh, this thread is priceless!!

In the hope of retaining some form of decorum (before I leave thsi thread and allow you all to continue as you were, lol)...

Sarah, a car is either too wide (>209mm) or it fits within our dimensional rulings (<=209mm). If a car is found to be "a touch over 209mm wide" it will still fail, no exceptions.

The 213mm stated in the Carisma brouchure/manual is an incorrect figure from the original specification of the GT14B prior to the car being re-scaled to fit the BRCA dimensional rules. It probably just got forgotten about.

And to whoever mentioned that the CML site states the GT14B as being a 1/14th buggy, I think all that has now been changed, thanks for pointing it out :)

Rest assured fans, everything is in order. I raced a stock GT14B with stock wheels and tyres for most of last season and had no issues with width at all.

As I sit here craving the cigarettes that I gave up 2 days ago, this thread will keep me company :) lol

sldmodels

24-08-2011, 07:46 AM

That's exactly what I was thinking Cosie, was only trying to help with kaylon's problem.

c0sie

24-08-2011, 08:31 AM

I think Kaylon's dimensional issues were resolved around post #22.

The 17 or so posts after that are what I come here for :thumbsup:

kaylon

24-08-2011, 12:19 PM

Everything is golden :) thanks everyone for the input. I'm looking forward to doing some racing with you folks soon...I'm a very consistent driver...I'm consistently slow and in last place :)

J

teamorsum96

24-08-2011, 03:26 PM

Everything is golden :) thanks everyone for the input. I'm looking forward to doing some racing with you folks soon...I'm a very consistent driver...I'm consistently slow and in last place :)

J

better than doing 6laps then retiring lol:lol:

teamorsum96

29-08-2011, 06:24 PM

i no this is just abit off the path, but would the gt14b body fit the lwb shark, as c0sie looks so peachie :thumbsup:

peetbee

29-08-2011, 06:38 PM

Well the Phat Bodies Optimus shell fits both, but needs to be cut differently at the front.
There's a chance but it could be a smidge narrow, you'll have to see if anyone can lend you a shell!!

Body Paint

29-08-2011, 08:58 PM

"a smudge" ? Is that more or less than "a bit" Pete?

Remember that you started this. It's either to narrow or it's not LOL

Oh, and to the guy that said about GT14 and GT14B being the same width... They aren't, the B is about 70mm wider or something though the wheelbase is the same.