Retro heat

[minke]

Could we organise a retro heat? I was thinking 1980's vintage class(allowing reissues) Any electrics inc. brushless allowed but maybe 13.5T limit. What do you think? Love watching the older cars race, what was that car last sunday, a hotshot? didnt get a chance to look closely.

[Si Coe]

10.5t limit and you are on. I'm not buying a new motor just to run my car against less modern equipment than it normally races.....

[minke]

Haven't you got any older gear? I thought you had it all! Actually considered suggesting stock 540 silver cans with stock electrics to make it fair. Can't have you using any of this new fangled 1990's stuff you know

[tisher]

10.5t limit and you are on. I'm not buying a new motor just to run my car against less modern equipment than it normally races.....

you would win this hands down si you run retro ever week:lol:

[coleman758]

I'm up for this!

I have the Hornet & Madbull.
i have all my old electrics too!

But i think the old Nimhs i had are going to be pretty dead by now!

[minke]

Dug my old hornet out, needs a strip down and rebuild. Just spotted the car I always wanted when I was a kid. The Tamiya Fast attack vehicle, soooo tempted

[mattb]

10.5t limit and you are on. I'm not buying a new motor just to run my car against less modern equipment than it normally races.....

Si,if you have something retro i could borrow ill join in? I think robs got some old cars to.

[tisher]

I still have my 89 cougar that would be interesting with a 10.5 in it

[mattb]

I still have my 89 cougar that would be interesting with a 10.5 in it

Rob mills has one to lol

[johnnygibbon]

should have kept the maxxum . it would be almost competative .
retro racing could be hard work unless ya si who seems to struggle more with modern gear. hahaha.
just rebuilt truck and ordered some tweaks . watch out boys its lairy again

[Si Coe]

All I've got working are the 2 RC10's. If you want an RC10 Matt this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Team-associated-RC10-Vintage-Stealth-/330605099481?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item4cf99979d9) is on Ebay and I've got the bits needed to complete it.
or this Cougar no bids with 20mins to go!
(http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-schumacher-cougar-r-c-car-buggy-/200644799655?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2eb75caca7)
The Team car just scrapes in as 1980's because it was actually released in the US in late 1989, based on the gearbox from the Worlds car earlier that year. Couldn't get them in the UK till the spring though.

Can do Silver cans or brushed as I have those motors, but esc's are an issue. I've got them - even got my old 1990 Laser Comfet Mini Pro somewhere, but of course none of them have lipo cutouts and I have no old school cells. But I think some of my brushless escs can also do brushed if need be.

TBH 10.5t is a bit much to ask. My RC10's can cope as they have the first true modern gearbox in them, but an old belt drive Cougar wouldn't stand a chance.
For old cars the best brushless motors are actually the blue finned Ezruns's. Because they have smaller than 540 sized cores, they don't have the gearbox shredding torque of full 540 motors.

Truth be told - I think my RC10 would probably be like cheating whatever motor I put in it. After all it has a proper slipper clutch which marks the difference between 80's and 90's cars.

[Cr3Ad]

would a club 10 schumacher storm fit in this retro thats my earliest car

[Si Coe]

If its the belt drive version - its really just the original Cougar (or Shotgun if its the truck) that was re-released when the Cougar 2 came out as a budget car.
However later models seem to have a gear drive gearbox, making them more suited to brushless power - I think it was developed for the .21XT Nitro Storm.

[Cr3Ad]

yea its the gear driven one arr well ebay vintage search is in order lol just wish i still had my tamiya frog

[Si Coe]

I don't expect anyone will care to look inside the gearbox!

[Cr3Ad]

i'm sure it will sound chain driven by now its had that much use

[Howler]

Didnt you say it had no slipper clutch though Chris?

[Si Coe]

I think thats kinda the critical point - Non-slipper cars of a pretty much any age pre 2000. That means that newer, but budget, stuff like the Mad Bull goes in there too.

[Cr3Ad]

yea no slipper clutch but i wont be slapping a brushless in there, ive got loads of brushed motors to choose from to put in it instead

[coleman758]

I think thats kinda the critical point - Non-slipper cars of a pretty much any age pre 2000. That means that newer, but budget, stuff like the Mad Bull goes in there too.

The Madbull doesn't have a slipper!

[Si Coe]

Thats my point!

Its too new to officially be a 'retro' car, but its just as low tech so belongs in with them.

That allows all sorts of stuff that wouldn't be competitive against a modern car.

Of course this means I'll need to track down a 6 gear transmission for my Rc10......

[Howler]

I remember by 1991 RC10 Team had a slipper clutch even back then. So did my Losi LX-T, which i think came along in '92. That was a great truck, my modern XXX-SCT still uses the exact same shocks.

[Maddy]

will there be a limit on battery's, motor, speed controller or will this be a stock basis race.:D

[Si Coe]

This seems to be the point of contention.

Personally I'd rather allow lipos, as quite a lot of people have gone over to them 100% and they are just much less faff. But that really means lipo compatible esc's too - and suddenly things aren't so stock!

What I will say is the two things really make a difference to my RC10 over the one I raced in 1990: The brushless motor and the yellow minispikes. And without those tyres, the motor wouldn't be that much use either.

So perhaps the best option is:
No slipper clutches
Suitably 'retro' tyres (stock or hard compounds - Schumacher Blues for example)
But open on motors, escs etc. With hard tyres and no slipper, you won't want more power than we had back in the day. Before I got my Stealth gearbox the hottest motor I'd run in 2wd was a 17x4, despite owning a 13x2, because it just couldn't handle it.

[Maddy]

Cheers mate,
sounds good to me,should be a good turn out too and when do you think the retro racing will begin as ive got someone else interested with a standerd Tamiya hotshot,
Cheers.

[Si Coe]

Same as trucks - if we've get 5 people, you've got a race.....

Several people have stuff that qualifies, and use it most weeks, so all they need to do is ask to race retro. Though I don't think there is a retro class on the computer so it might be called something else.

[shanks]

Wonder if it would be an idea to run this class at either the beginning or the end of the day?

Reason being that if anyone wanted to come for this class alone then potentially they could without having to stay the full day?

[Maddy]

Know what you mean,my mate would only race in this class,would it be the same as other classes 4 Quaily heats an the final?

[minke]

hmm I'm leaning more towards stock electrics, brushed gear at least. How much would a nimh pack really cost? I'll bet lipo's and brushless will ruin a few gearboxes, as well as being a bit unfair.

[Cr3Ad]

im on brushed and a single nimh pack i got free with my blast, gonna use a brushed motor around 17t

[Howler]

So perhaps the best option is:
No slipper clutches
Suitably 'retro' tyres (stock or hard compounds - Schumacher Blues for example)
But open on motors, escs etc. With hard tyres and no slipper, you won't want more power than we had back in the day. Before I got my Stealth gearbox the hottest motor I'd run in 2wd was a 17x4, despite owning a 13x2, because it just couldn't handle it.

You need an age limit too, coz my SCTE has no slipper clutch and runs rock hard compound tyres. :p

[Maddy]

Would the old Tamiya manual speed controller take the newer type batts or would it have to be an ESC type.

[Cr3Ad]

you might get away with nimh's but not lipos

[Si Coe]

You can run lipos, but with no cutout you have to hope they don't go flat. Though with a low powered motor designed when cells were 1700mAh max you really shouldn't go flat in 5 mins.

I think, rather like 'classic' status, it has to be open to definition. Can't have an age limit per se, as re-releases are new, but old designs.

[tisher]

I still got the og motor I run in the cougar in the nationals in 1989:woot:I think it was a 11 double

[minke]

well I got a couple of spare silvercans, i'll test them tomorrow . Also got a couple of unused ansmann clash motors i got with my rat/ monkey. Also have a spare brushed speedo, mtronics iirc.

I've also just bought the rereleased tamiya fast attack vehicle. Need an extra long aerial tube and a confederate flag to go with it. comes with a motor and speedo, 90% ballraced too

[budfish]

What we can sort a retro heat but not a kids heat there are more kids racing than old cars isn't there so if you have a retro you must also have a kids heat !!!

Fair is fair

See you hypocrites soon

Buds

[Maddy]

What we can sort a retro heat but not a kids heat there are more kids racing than old cars isn't there so if you have a retro you must also have a kids heat !!!

Fair is fair

See you hypocrites soon

Buds
Totally agree,ive just bought my 7 year old daughter a short course truck,shes been on back field getting used to it before hitting the track,i think she would feel a lot more at ease if she was racing in a kids class (mixed cars) :thumbsup:

[Si Coe]

The problem there is the mixed class bit. Chadderton is going to have an under 13's heat, Southport have had them, but both insist on 2wd buggys.

We have youngsters running 2wd, 4wd and trucks. If we lump them all together, the 4wds will lap fastest, until they get smashed up by the trucks....


But to be more specific - you can have any classes you want. You can have a class of cars carved entirely from a block of Edam cheese for all I care, as long as you have 5 or more people and can agree on some fair rules*. The stumbling block for a retro or a kids heat is the same - RULES!

If we can agree a format for either class, we can run them. But just as I don't really think running my brushless and lipo'ed up RC10 Team against Minke's FAV in a retro race isn't exactly fair, neither is a junior race pitting a stock Mad Rat RTR against something like Howler's Losi truck - which is possible in a completely open class!

Oh, and the other issue with a kids race is marshalling the race afterwards. Its all well enough to say 'Dad's do it' but most of our Dad's race too which means they can't be in the next heat.



*plus of course the cars must be electric, fit our track, be safe, run for 5 mins etc

[budfish]

Well don't get all horny for one and not the other niether are supported by a brca format so it's both or forget it kids heats should be marshalled by volunteers

[tisher]

I don't think a kids heat a good idea well its no good for us anyway because we both run trucks:thumbsup:

[Si Coe]

I'm not really 'supporting' either. In the spirit of fairness, any rules that allow my RC10 pretty much defeat the point of a retro class, so I won't be in that. And Ben's a little young for even a junior class - so far he just chews the transmitter!

What I am saying is that for both ideas we need fair, agreed rules as to what constituents that class. Those rules should be as open as possible to allow as many participants as we can, whilst still maintaining the point For a kids class, Chadderton have gone under 13 for example - but we could say 12, or even 10. What limit would you like?

If people want to agree on a formula, and enough people get onboard, we can run it.
If people decide they want to run a 17.5t motor class - it can be done. Just agree that thats what you want. Want a kids class? Come up with the rules and we'll try it.
In fact, if you just want to try a mixed class we can do it this weekend. I believe there is a Junior option in the system already. Just decide who rates as a Junior!

[Si Coe]

I don't think a kids heat a good idea well its no good for us anyway because we both run trucks:thumbsup:

In any case these 'artificial' classes would have to be voluntary. Eligible or not, I'll not be running my RC10 in retro because I'd rather run it in 2wd against the B4's, and likewise if you'd prefer to race with Vaughan he doesn't have to run in juniors.

[budfish]

In any case these 'artificial' classes would have to be voluntary. Eligible or not, I'll not be running my RC10 in retro because I'd rather run it in 2wd against the B4's, and likewise if you'd prefer to race with Vaughan he doesn't have to run in juniors.

Yes he would have to run a junior class in my books he is a " junior" stop putting your own agenda forward and think of the poor blokes that are bottom of the pile and have to run with these kids or the ones who get marshalled by them think of the groups enjoyment and not your own it's not " me" it is us

Buds

[Si Coe]

Doesn't work like that.

Some 'Juniors' are better than the adults - Connor used to give you a good run for your money! Can't simply say 'sorry son you're not old enough - go play with the little kiddies' cos what a smart person would do is go somewhere else....

The way Southport did Juniors last time I saw it was that they all raced 2wd, and did qualifying in the regular 2wd heats (according to ability etc). But then, to score point in the Junior championship, they raced in a separate final from the other 2wds.

In effect, this offered the best of both worlds - integrates the juniors in with the main racing, whilst still allowing them a separate race too.

Besides Dave, everyone knows you are just scared little Heather is going to beat you!

[budfish]

Doesn't work like that.

Some 'Juniors' are better than the adults - Connor used to give you a good run for your money! Can't simply say 'sorry son you're not old enough - go play with the little kiddies' cos what a smart person would do is go somewhere else....

The way Southport did Juniors last time I saw it was that they all raced 2wd, and did qualifying in the regular 2wd heats (according to ability etc). But then, to score point in the Junior championship, they raced in a separate final from the other 2wds.

In effect, this offered the best of both worlds - integrates the juniors in with the main racing, whilst still allowing them a separate race too.

Besides Dave, everyone knows you are just scared little Heather is going to beat you!

I don't give two monkeys about their ability under 12 race in kids that's it otherwise leave it as it is. Your crap and will always be with the kids before me anyway I'm sick of being marshalled by these kids who leave you on your roof while they decide if Its safe or not or a to busy playing hop scotch to notice you stuck under the piping.it's crap and ruins everyone's day everyone concerned

As for Martin and his kid vaughn he will have to race under 12s and his dad Marshall him why should him involving his kid ruin my day and not his?

[johnnygibbon]

I'm Lovin trucks and 4 wd it's real mans racing
And Si will nail all you turds in retro heat any way

Buggys up and runing again it's rapid
And the truck is better than ever
Watch out fools

[Col]

You boys love it complicated!

At York we do it simple: 540 class (2 or 4wd), 2wd mod and 4wd mod.
2wd and 4wd are self explanatory...

540 class is our recommended beginner class. Run anything you want as long as it's either sealed can 540 or a stupid slow brushless (RTR stylee). Popular with the young and old. Put the retro in this class and save their gearboxes!

[minke]

The kids that marshall are keen at least, some of the dads last time were great at instructing them in how to do it right. Some strict rules such as ONLY marshalling when wearing a hi-vis vest will improve things. As it stands the kids are more than welcome and have plenty of racing opportunities.
Having a 80's retro heat using brushed gear with nimhs/nicads, 2wd/4wd together shouldnt be that hard to organise. Its all in the name of fun.

[tisher]

I don't give two monkeys about their ability under 12 race in kids that's it otherwise leave it as it is. Your crap and will always be with the kids before me anyway I'm sick of being marshalled by these kids who leave you on your roof while they decide if Its safe or not or a to busy playing hop scotch to notice you stuck under the piping.it's crap and ruins everyone's day everyone concerned

As for Martin and his kid vaughn he will have to race under 12s and his dad Marshall him why should him involving his kid ruin my day and not his?



you would never get enough kids to run a full heat and final It will never change unless we start getting 60+ racers week in week out They have just finished the summer series at ribble they just run heats on abilty not on what you drive. which would work at bury as well

[budfish]

It dos'nt matter if it's just 4 kids or 12 kids they get their own heat full stop and marshalled by volunteers or/and dads then they don't Marshall at all and the other heats run as normal

Just an idea they do it at batley and it works!!