bx modifications

[ryan]

hi every body with a bx, most top drivers are running this mod now and the car is transformed it gives more camber out of the corners for more rear traction. the steeing mod is my idea and i like to run because i dont like fast steering, it also calms the front end down dramatically.

The upside down rear ballstuds i did not yet no of at southport but at tiverton (outdoor) it made a lot of differnce for rear traction i got a old xxx4 front shocktower and made the spacers to rise up the rear top deck it has to go right across to keep the diff held in, you also have to file away some of the top deck at the edge so when the car lands of the jump the turnbuckles stay onand arn't pushed of.Another think i have also found with the bx is that it always wanted to flip, after looking at the steering assembely i decided to do is was the same as what everyone did to the xxx4 , make the turnbuckle from the servo longer to make the steering smother and stop it diggig in so hard. firstly i removed the carbon joint out and placed a old turnbuckle from the servo to the other side of the car, at this point only one wheel will steer so look at the ackermann at the top, with the spare hole nearest the pivot use the turnbuckle previously taken of at fit it across (must make longer) it misses all the belts and the diff.

i know this may sound confusing but its not look at this link for a oople shot of simon moss with the modified bx.
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/batley4wdnat2006/imagepages/batley4wd59.html

ryan

[Bastos]

Hello Ryan,

Have you got a shot of your steering modification plz ?

Thx

Bast

[ryan]

i have no digital camera at the moment but i will borrow someones camera and post it next week some time, sorry!!!:(
ryan

[jimmy]

This is the reversed links on lee martins car at oswestry

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry160706/bigimages/os4wd43.jpg

[ryan]

thats the one!! i raised mine up further about 4mm by extra spacers.
ryan

[Bathy]

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry160706/imagepages/os4wd02.html (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry160706/imagepages/os4wd02.html)

I also spotted that there are different rear drive shaft’s being used on the BX in that photo above, I always spot little things.

For example what’s going on with the rear brace on this BX? Looks like screws have been reversed from being fixed through the chassis bottom to down from the top… not sure why you would make this modification however, anyone know?

[bigred5765]

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry160706/imagepages/os4wd02.html (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry160706/imagepages/os4wd02.html)

I also spotted that there are different rear drive shaft’s being used on the BX in that photo above, I always spot little things.

For example what’s going on with the rear brace on this BX? Looks like screws have been reversed from being fixed through the chassis bottom to down from the top… not sure why you would make this modification however, anyone know?
cant see drive shafts ??
and i think bits on top of rear link are something to do with the rear plate covering the diff

[jimmy]

he means the photo in the thread carl (I wondered the same at first) I guess they might be B4 cvd's ?

[Bathy]

cant see drive shafts ??


I meant in the photo in the post above (I wasn't very clear), the one Jimmy posted, B4 rear drive shafts not the Yoke one's. Think I'll stick with the BX one's until they need replacing.

[Northy]

You think they might be B4 CVD's, rear uprights (after market - poss different toe) and wheels by any chance? :cool:

G

[Northy]

I meant in the photo in the post above (I wasn't very clear), the one Jimmy posted, B4 rear drive shafts not the Yoke one's. Think I'll stick with the BX one's until they need replacing.

I think I heard that one Yoke driver (quite well known) had said that B4 rear driveshafts was the single biggest improvement he had made! :o

G

[winehundred]

I think I heard that one Yoke driver (quite well known) had said that B4 rear driveshafts was the single biggest improvement he had made! :o

G

Hi,

Does it require any modification to use them on the BX? And what about the front ones?

Thanks!

[ryan]

they run the b4 driveshafts becuase the roll pin always come un-done and the pin falls out this has happend to me twice, check it every run and take it out and re-threadlock it after every meeting do not use the threadlock in the kit use the top brand stuff. the hubs he is runing is rayspeed 0.5 degree dont no what it does though!!

ryan

[Northy]

Hi,

Does it require any modification to use them on the BX? And what about the front ones?

Thanks!

Don't know, I don't run one, sorry.

G

[Northy]

they run the b4 driveshafts becuase the roll pin always come un-done and the pin falls out this has happend to me twice, check it every run and take it out and re-threadlock it after every meeting do not use the threadlock in the kit use the top brand stuff. the hubs he is runing is rayspeed 0.5 degree dont no what it does though!!

ryan


CVD's also handle different to dogbones. I think they give the rear more grip on power. The 1/2 degree hubs will add grip or take it away depending on which way round they are.

Does the BX struggle for rear grip? :confused:

G

[Mike_stening]

would imagine that if the BX is anything like the BC was it won't struggle for rear end grip. the japanise like alot of rear grip (lots and lots) mainly due to them running on low grip clay (yatabe) and as the car didn't seem to have any probs with rear control at the worlds i would imagine that any change to the rear end hubs would be the same as the cahnges made to the BC, which was to take away rear grip so reduceing the amount of rear toe.
am also interested to know if this car sufers any of the traits that the BC had like requiring more rear end damping to stop that nasty side bite issue which would cause the car to suddenly flip.

[jimmy]

From what I heard, the CVD shafts lock up a bit more than the UJ shafts, and keep the car flatter under power because they try to straighten up - or something.

[Northy]

I would have thought UJ's would bind more on power. They started using them on the back of the XXX to get more steering.

G

[Chris Doughty]

more bind = more rear end on power.

what happens is, they level out the car and make it drive 'straight'

with the less bind, it allows the car to keep leaning in the corner and continues in the corner when you get on the power.

off power its the oposite, more bind = less rear end entering the corner.

at least thats what happens on the back of the Losi car(s)

[jimmy]

I would have thought UJ's would bind more on power. They started using them on the back of the XXX to get more steering.

G

yea forget that, I meant over dogbones not UJ's - I got confused :D

[ryan]

the bx used to struggle for rear end grip dramaticaly (i cant spell!) after turning the ballstuds upside down its awesome. i am going to keep it to yokomo parts i think.:rolleyes:

[DCM]

sounds like there wasn't enough camber change on the rear to keep the tyre flat, mid corner it was probably rolling off the outer edge of the tyre.

[Northy]

the bx used to struggle for rear end grip dramaticaly.......

Who's the daddy? :confused: :D

G

[ryan]

????:o

[Mike_stening]

the bx used to struggle for rear end grip dramaticaly (i cant spell!) after turning the ballstuds upside down its awesome. i am going to keep it to yokomo parts i think.:rolleyes:

thats very strange, as it was designed to run on dirt not grass, never the less it is easier to get grip than loose it (at least thats the experience i had with the BC)
i'll get one of these one day and find out for myself.

[Southwell]

Bathys BX oversteers massively, three rows off the tyres and still couldn't correct it. Seems that most of the ones i saw go round had a tendancy to oversteer and kick the rear end out.

[ryan]

not if you do my steering mod!!!
ryan

[Bastos]

Ryan ,

Put a shot of your steering mod plz.
It's to much interesting.:)

Somebody go to the European championship at Vienna ?
There is carpet, at the warmup, on the straight, the big corner on the left, on the four jumps, on the table ...and on the 360° corner ( halfpipe :) )
Is the rear end mod great for this track ?

thx

[ryan]

hi bastos,
the first time i used the steering mod was on a tight twisty carpet track and it didnt grip roll once; i use the steering mod on all tracks even if low grip as it kicks the rear end out and on high grip tracks like astroturf it stops it digging in, also have the front end ride height higher than the rear so the weight is at the back and stops digging in so much. The rear end mod (ball studs upside down) i use on any track or any surface to stop the rear end powersliding. When i used the bx at oswesrty where there was a big table top the bx stuggled to fly (lol its not a plane!!) probarly becuase i got the fattest batteries ever (peak 4300) try some harder springs on the front to push the front end of the jump. Most people are running associated shocks now but i found the yokomo shocks just as good i also had to put limiters in the rear shock to stop the drive shaft falling out. i do want to try it with associated b4 rear hubs and associated drive shafts for even more rear end grip. i have not found my camera yet so no photos of the steering, i will pm you some better instructions.
hope this helps!!!!
ryan

[winehundred]

hi bastos,
i will pm you some better instructions.


Ryan,

Post them also on the site, please! ;)

Cheeeeers!

[Bastos]

Ryan,

For the yokomo shocks, if you think they are better ( that's I think ) try to find this yokomo reference ( long shocks shaft 49,6mm ) : YS-5L-2T
to have the same lenght as asso shocks.( Use "BRADDERS" rear shock tower :D )
For the rear hub, I've win a french nats on slippery tracks with rayspeed rear hub 0,5° and original rear hub ( to have classic 3° toe in or more) and with CVDs Dogbones...its right that the cvds give something more ( traction out of corner ).
Gallery here : http://www.mini-zone.com/plugins/diaporama/diaporama.php?lng=fr&diapo_id=27

See my yokomo ( the yellow one )

Thx for your help

YOKOMO better than before


( I still wait the shot of ur steer mod :D )

[Bastos]

The U.K. rear mod is interesting, but, perhaps there is something more simple.`
Take a look on your front hub carrier...you can set the wheel base, long or short, I think you can modified the arms to make the wheelbase more shorter.( just to put two spacers on the front of hub )
By this, the steering is totaly different and the rear end don't go out during corner and the front end is smoother...good for slippery tracks.

:santa:

[ryan]

i have two of the "bradders" shock towers that i used with the associated shocks, it is higher than standard. what is the advantage of using long shock shaft and the "bradders" shocktower does it give the car more droop? if it does the driveshaft will fall out with the rear end mod so do you have to run rayspeed hubs and b4 driveshafts? i tryed the front hub spacing and still found it digging in to much so i always run the upside down ballstud it transformsthe car to a 4wd beast!!! do you run the rear end mod? you must be pretty good if you won th efrench national i dont think i can compare my self to you!!!

ryan

[winehundred]

"bradders" shock towers

Sorry, what is this exactly? :scratch: :-D

[Bathy]

http://www.mini-zone.com/diapo/2006_06_34_cf4/100_9852.JPG (http://www.mini-zone.com/diapo/2006_06_34_cf4/100_9852.JPG)

Is this your car then Bastos, it looks really good, liking it!

Got a few questions for you, the white turnbuckles are they Losi ones and you’ve drilled holes in them? Did you move the belt tensioner to the top hole or are you running two, one below and one on top?

Also have you ever had any problems with your PT missing laps where it’s fitted, if I do decide to use mine again then that is where I was going to mount it!

Also I notice that you have put two screws through the rear diff cover, I wanted to screw mine on, so I didn’t cut it out as per the instructions leaving it as a large square, this enables you to fix it down using the four screws which hold the diff plate in place.

Oh and also I recommend buying the alloy front brace if you can, strengthens up the front nicely.

David/Bathy

[ryan]

the bradders shock tower is a modified version that has some thing to do with neil cragg and paul bradby/bradders it is higher than standard so you can run associated shocks or longer shock shafts, you can buy them of him for about £15. i have a spare one brand new that you could buy from me for £15 + p&p i can not make any chaeper as thats what i payed it does not come in a packet as i brought it of mike bradby.(pauls dad)
ryan

[winehundred]

Thanks Ryan.

.....neil cragg and paul bradby/bradder......

How to contact them please? Are they on this forum? :D


Cheeeeerrrs.....

[Bastos]

Sorry, what is this exactly? :scratch: :-D

Because I got it from paul bradby

[ryan]

i dont think they are on this forum but neil/mick cragg use www.doughtyuk.net send " neilcragg" a personal message he can help you better than me.
ryan

BASTOS:
have you tried the setup i posted? did you win any more nationals?

[Bastos]

http://www.mini-zone.com/diapo/2006_06_34_cf4/100_9852.JPG (http://www.mini-zone.com/diapo/2006_06_34_cf4/100_9852.JPG)

Is this your car then Bastos, it looks really good, liking it!

Got a few questions for you, the white turnbuckles are they Losi ones and you’ve drilled holes in them? Did you move the belt tensioner to the top hole or are you running two, one below and one on top?

Also have you ever had any problems with your PT missing laps where it’s fitted, if I do decide to use mine again then that is where I was going to mount it!

Also I notice that you have put two screws through the rear diff cover, I wanted to screw mine on, so I didn’t cut it out as per the instructions leaving it as a large square, this enables you to fix it down using the four screws which hold the diff plate in place.

Oh and also I recommend buying the alloy front brace if you can, strengthens up the front nicely.

David/Bathy


1) Yes it's losi ones, drilled for the original ball stud
2) I use top hole of the tensioner
3)For the PT, I never have problem, but 2/3% of detection, be carefull.
Perhaps just behind the motor.
4)For the cover, I use small screw from associated/ losi generaly use for fixing the front wing.

[winehundred]

they run the b4 driveshafts becuase the roll pin always come un-done and the pin falls out this has happend to me twice, check it every run and take it out and re-threadlock it after every meeting do not use the threadlock in the kit use the top brand stuff. the hubs he is runing is rayspeed 0.5 degree dont no what it does though!!



Hi,

Does someone know which ball bearings to use with the B4 driveshafts and Rayspeed hubs on a BX, please? Is it simply the B4 bearings?

Thanks!

[ben27111973]

you are correct. the B4 bearings need to be used.

the other mod needed that I discovered last night is the need to drill the yoke arms for the hub hinge pin. the yoke pin is tto small for the B4 hub so you will need to use a B4 pin and carefully ream out the arm to suit the new pin.

once finished it all looks factory. I will be testing it tomorrow and I am hoping it "hooks" the car up. mine is way too loose in the rear end now.

[winehundred]

you are correct. the B4 bearings need to be used.

the other mod needed that I discovered last night is the need to drill the yoke arms for the hub hinge pin. the yoke pin is tto small for the B4 hub so you will need to use a B4 pin and carefully ream out the arm to suit the new pin.

once finished it all looks factory. I will be testing it tomorrow and I am hoping it "hooks" the car up. mine is way too loose in the rear end now.


Thanks ben27111973! Do I also need the B4 bearings spacer (A7377) if using the B4 bearings?

lol, me it's 27111979! :D :D

[Bathy]

I ordered the spacers today winehundred along with the rayspeed hub, B4 bearings and hinge pins, should all turn up tomorrow and I can let you know if anything is missing.

Bathy 1973!

[winehundred]

I ordered the spacers today winehundred along with the rayspeed hub, B4 bearings and hinge pins, should all turn up tomorrow and I can let you know if anything is missing.

Bathy 1973!


Yeah Bathy, great!! So I can order the right parts as soon as I read your report ;)

Thanks! :)

[Bathy]

The B4 rear end mod for the BX, parts you need and a picture!


2 AS3977 3/16 x 3/8 bearings.
1 AS7377 B4 axle bearing spacer.
1 AS9599 B4 MIP CVD complete set or shinny CVD (as shown in the picture)
1 AS9622 Hinge pin (these are a little bit short so not sure if there is a better option)
1 RS28 Rayspeed B4 0.5°.
1 AS9608B Associated Factory Blue Aluminium Wheel Spacer.


As I mentioned above the hinge pins are a little short, so I'm thinking about cutting up some old Losi Shock shafts or something... Also I didn't do a very good job of making the holes bigger on the rear arms, but that’ just me.



http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/BXB4rearend.jpg

EDIT: one other thing I’ve forgot to mention is the need for different ball studs than the BX ones, Rayspeed hubs have different threads so I used some Losi titanium ball studs.

[winehundred]

Great job Bathy, thanks for the review! ;)

[Bathy]

I've ordered the following bits as well now, springs are the most important bits the others are just bling really (not that I care what my car looks like huh).:rolleyes:

Part no.Description

ZM-202G Graphite Servo Saver Parts
BB-840P Servo Saver Super Precision Bearing
ZC-206T Titanium Ball Stud
ZC-BH265T Titanium Suspension Arm Pin Retaining Screw
BB-1480P Centre Shaft Super Precision Bearing
BB-148C2 Centre Shaft Ceramic Bearing
BB-1510C2 Ceramic Bearing
YS-2BXF MR-4BX Front Spring Set (4 Types, 8 Springs)
YS-2BXR MR-4BX Rear Spring Set (5 Types, 10 Springs)
I'll let you know when they turn up and give you my views on them.

David

[Bathy]

Me again!

Thought I'd stick an image up of the BX rear end mod (ball studs upside down), your photos greatly helped me to work out how this modification was completed Jimmy, so cheers again for being a photo genius.

David

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/yokomoBX2.jpg

[martbeda]

Hi guys, I'm thinking to by a BX, but I running on a loose dirt track, I wonder if the belt and pulley will get very dirty after each run?
or should I stick with a BJ4

Martin

[jimmy]

The odd sponsored driver might argue the point, but the car does need more looking after (cleaning) than the likes of a BJ4. The rear diff in particular gets a bit dusty. Its a nice car to work on, one of the best I think, so that does make things a bit better.

[ryan]

hi
the bx will get dirty but if you make some diff covers and glue them on it should nt be that much of a problem and velcro the body to the undertray you should be ok. the bx wouldnt handle that good on loose dirt without the mods (thats my opinioun) as bastos won the french national with no mods. my opinioun of bj4's is that we should chuck them in a pile and burn them!!!! lol, they cant be that bad.:D

[Bathy]

I you look on yokomo.com under the Japanese link you'll find BX Dust Cover tips from Akira Suzuki, personally I think my effort is better but anyway...

http://10.dtiblog.com/a/akira01/file/SANY0001.jpg

http://10.dtiblog.com/a/akira01/file/SANY0002.jpg


Image courtesy of Yokomo.com

[Jimbo]

Any chance of some pics of your guard Bathy? :confused:

[Bathy]

Any chance of some pics of your guard Bathy?

Oh the picture above has moved or something, I can upload a picture mine, cars in a bit of a mess still from national racing weekend just gone.

Were the shots you took of my BX any good Jimmy? I kinda badgered you into taking them while you were clearly still suffering massively from the ‘night before’, sorry about that.

[jimmy]

haha, I will have a look! they were with the old fisheye so might be slightly MAD ! ;) but then, everything looked a bit mad on sunday morning.
:drunken:

[Southwell]

Suffering as much as you on sat morning huh Bathy? Ya lightweight!

[Marco]

I want a pic of ryans steering mod too...

[ryan]

ive been told my steering mod is bodged up by lee martin. ive tried associated shocks and think they are loads better than yokomo. lee told me to run 35weight in the front 30 in the rear, number 2 pistons all the way round but a extra 1.4mm hole drilled in rear pistons, silver springs all round.

ryan

[cabbynate]

Were do you order the rayspeed 0.5dg hubs for the mod? I live in the U.S. and I can't find any place to order them?:confused:

[Marco]

@Ryan

for what kinda track is lee's setup? bumby, slippery? or on grass?

and the 1,4mm extra-hole... ist that a 3rd hole or just bore one of the two holes up to 1,4mm?

greets Marco

[ryan]

it is a extra hole, so there will be 3 holes altogether. it is a setup for grass/astro i think.

ryan

[Bathy]

Were do you order the rayspeed 0.5dg hubs for the mod? I live in the U.S. and I can't find any place to order them?:confused:

You could try microtechracing, think I got some from them before.

[cabbynate]

You could try microtechracing, think I got some from them before.
Thanks for the tip Bathy. I went there and they were out of stock.:(
I sent them an email to see if they will be getting any in soon. Lets hope.
I have an MR4-XB comming and I want to be able to set it up well from the start. 4dg to in is a bit much by the kit set up don't ya think?

[albertobdq]

Hi, regarding the issues with dirt on the rear diff... I want to show you a trick: rather than ussing lexan to (try) issolate the front of the rear bulkhead try a little of foam from used tyre inserts. This keeps the dirt off better and do not disturb the belt, the friction is almost zero.

I do not have pictures but i hope you catch the idea.

[Marco]

ty ryan :)

[cabbynate]

I've ordered the following bits as well now, springs are the most important bits the others are just bling really (not that I care what my car looks like huh).:rolleyes:

Part no.Description


ZM-202G Graphite Servo Saver Parts
BB-840P Servo Saver Super Precision Bearing
ZC-206T Titanium Ball Stud
ZC-BH265T Titanium Suspension Arm Pin Retaining Screw
BB-1480P Centre Shaft Super Precision Bearing
BB-148C2 Centre Shaft Ceramic Bearing
BB-1510C2 Ceramic Bearing
YS-2BXF MR-4BX Front Spring Set (4 Types, 8 Springs)
YS-2BXR MR-4BX Rear Spring Set (5 Types, 10 Springs)I'll let you know when they turn up and give you my views on them.

David
Did your parts show up? I an interested to no how those springs are working out. The kit springs are way to stiff........

[Bathy]

Did your parts show up? I an interested to no how those springs are working out. The kit springs are way to stiff........

Yup got all the parts fine, springs seem fine to me but most 'top' drivers have taken the Yoke shocks off and put B4 ones on... I thought that was because the Yoke spring were not out (still not in the UK... crazy!) but it might be because B4 ones are better/well known.

I expect these new parts to be out in the UK soon, it seems to take forever to ship a few bits in from Japan.

[cabbynate]

Yup got all the parts fine, springs seem fine to me but most 'top' drivers have taken the Yoke shocks off and put B4 ones on... I thought that was because the Yoke spring were not out (still not in the UK... crazy!) but it might be because B4 ones are better/well known.

I expect these new parts to be out in the UK soon, it seems to take forever to ship a few bits in from Japan.
Good to here mate. I called Yokomo usa yesterday and they said that they had them ( the springs) in stock and they would be on the website that nite. WORNG!
I might have to give them another call.:D

[Bathy]

I meant to post an image of the dirt coverage I've added to the rear diff of my BX's, someone asked ages ago, hope these shots help...

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bxdirt2.jpg

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bxdirt3.jpg

[cabbynate]

Looks good. If ever you get a chance could you take a snap shot of your rear camber mod and post it. It looks like the best job I have seen from what I can see.....:)
Cheers,
Nate

[Bathy]

Hi cabbynate, not sure if this is the right way of doing it, some people don't even bother doing the mod and it don't seem to slow them down at all!

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bx1.jpg

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bx3.jpg

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bx6.jpg

http://www.jigsaw7.com/uploads/bigkidstuff/bx7.jpg

[cabbynate]

THANKS Bathy!!!!!!!:)
Excellent photos!!!!!!! I was thinking of doing it similar but your way is ace!!!!!!:smile: I have 2 extra rear camber mounts. 1 to cut down as a spacer an another one so I can always go back to stock setting if necessary.
Thanks again mate!!!! Now I can finally go out and get this DONE!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Nate

[fastinfastout]

sorry to bring an old thread up but.....regarding the b4 rear cva mod......

Why are people upgrading to rayspeed hub? whats wrong with the b4 hub for the mod?

I also need new front uni as the pin has fallen out.
What alternatives do I have to replacing the front uni/cva to a better design?

[Bike Racer]

sorry to bring an old thread up but.....regarding the b4 rear cva mod......

Why are people upgrading to rayspeed hub? whats wrong with the b4 hub for the mod?

I also need new front uni as the pin has fallen out.
What alternatives do I have to replacing the front uni/cva to a better design?

I think most use Rayspeed aluminum hubs (I use Trinity) to keep the bling factor going. They also come in .5* and 1* versions where stock B4 plastic hubs don't come in anything other than 0*. There is no problem using stock plastic hubs, one of my buddies uses them and his car is still dialed. The ballstud on the hub is higher, so you need to shim the camber plate up a bit more.

For the front universals you should get the HARD version from Yokomo, they are way better than the originals, and I don't really think there is a better option. I got mine here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350029511586

Shipping was very quick.

Hope this helps.

[fastinfastout]

thanks, I was looking at those on ebay.
And how does the different 0.5* or 1* make in turns of handling?