Points system for regionals??

[dbizzle5]

I guess this is mainly a question pointed to Charlie and Jim but feel free to add your thoughts people.

Last year the points were done on where you finished in your final only and didnt take into account qualifying. For example, you could qualify 1st in the A but then if you broke your car in the final or some other misfortune happened to you and you finish last then you would only get points for 10th place. Personally I believe that where you qualify is worth much more than your final position and this points system gives an unjust score of a persons achievments of the day. Especially when the series only consists of 4 rounds and its your best 3 rounds to count. That means that you could qualify 1st in all rounds but just 2 bad finals and your done for!!!:thumbdown:

I suggest a better system would be 200 points for qualify and 100 for final. ie 1st qualifier gets 200, 2nd 199 etc and the same for finals but from 100 down. This way your finals position still counts but is not so do or die if you have bad luck in the final.

What are peoples thoughts?

[Northy]

It's not broken, no need to fix it.....

The software would need changing to do it.

G

[dbizzle5]

So are all regions doing it this way then?

[jim76]

we used this system in the mid south a couple of years ago with 100 pts for quali and 100 for finals. It worked well from a drivers point of view but was hard work from the administrators point of view, especially when they had a problem with the software/printer at one meeting.
But at the end of the day, Formula 1 guys don;t get points for getting on pole, it's all down to the race, that's why they call it "racing"!

[RSharpy]

I have to agree with Dan (DBizzle) on this one. It would be much fairer to have 200 downwards for qualifying and 100 downwards for the finals. Or 100 and 100 would be ok with maybe a bonus point for TQ and 1st A.

Think with our region having best 3 from 4, just to have points for the final wouldn't be fair. If you have a breakage or if somebody takes you out it could not just be that round out the window but your entire season.

[RSharpy]

Jim76, is it 3 from 4 or 3 from 5 in the Mid South?

[Northy]

You guys do realise that what we do every weekend is called 'racing' and not 'qualifying'? :confused::confused:

The regionals tend to run the same format as the nationals as it's supposed to be a stepping stone to them (looks like it will be even more now the numbers are up), so people know what to expect at the big meetings.

Part of the skill to finals is keeping out of trouble. I know a national A finalist who says he drives 'even easier' in finals.

Equally, if you have a bad qually and line up A 10, you then can't win the meeting can you with your system? :confused:

Swings and roundabouts :lol::lol:

G

[dbizzle5]

It worked well from a drivers point of view but was hard work from the administrators point of view, especially when they had a problem with the software/printer at one meeting.
But at the end of the day, Formula 1 guys don;t get points for getting on pole, it's all down to the race, that's why they call it "racing"!


I understand it makes it slightly more complicated but surely its not that difficult. And as far as F1 goes they have like 20 races to a championship instead of just 4 so its a bit different I think.

[dbizzle5]

You guys do realise that what we do every weekend is called 'racing' and not 'qualifying'? :confused::confused:

The regionals tend to run the same format as the nationals as it's supposed to be a stepping stone to them (looks like it will be even more now the numbers are up), so people know what to expect at the big meetings.

Part of the skill to finals is keeping out of trouble. I know a national A finalist who says he drives 'even easier' in finals.

Equally, if you have a bad qually and line up A 10, you then can't win the meeting can you with your system? :confused:

Swings and roundabouts :lol::lol:

G


I suppose so. Didnt know the nationals worked on that scoring system too.

If you did qually 10th and fluked the final then I dont think its derserved win anyways! Much better to equal the points out to give a more overall result i think.

[Northy]

I understand it makes it slightly more complicated but surely its not that difficult. And as far as F1 goes they have like 20 races to a championship instead of just 4 so its a bit different I think.

I'm not so sure you realise the amount of work that already goes on behind the sceens....... :cry::cry::cry:

F1 - All rounds count, a bad day is a bad day and reflects on the championship. Hence why they will 'settle' for 2nd or 3rd in a race. Winning a championship is also a skill. :D

G

[Northy]

If you did qually 10th and fluked the final then I dont think its derserved win anyways! Much better to equal the points out to give a more overall result i think.

If you qualify A 10 and win the final, you have covered more ground in the same amount of time, so are therefore the fastest. Fastest wins! Sorted :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

G

[dbizzle5]

I'm not so sure you realise the amount of work that already goes on behind the sceens....... :cry::cry::cry:

F1 - All rounds count, a bad day is a bad day and reflects on the championship. Hence why they will 'settle' for 2nd or 3rd in a race. Winning a championship is also a skill. :D

G

Your probably right that I dont realise all the work that goes on behind the scenes but surely just adding two numbers together rather than 1 is not that much more work?

And as for F1 I know all rounds count but there is loads of them. So bad days are averaged out alot more ands dont matter as much.

10th to 1st in a final to me just means that a lot of the front runners have been wiped out!!!:p

[jimmy]

Do away with finals - one huge final with cars all the way to the last man arranged down the length of the main straight. You earn your place on the grid like usual but now you have so much more to race for if you qualified last - you can still win the day! just like real racing!:p

[dbizzle5]

Do away with finals - one huge final with cars all the way to the last man arranged down the length of the main straight. You earn your place on the grid like usual but now you have so much more to race for if you qualified last - you can still win the day! just like real racing!:p


exactly my point! Might aswell if qualifying dont count for anything!:D

[Northy]

Your probably right that I dont realise all the work that goes on behind the scenes but surely just adding two numbers together rather than 1 is not that much more work?

Not really. The software works out all the championship tables. It couldn't work out your way of doing it. Someone would have to sit down and work it out. :o I wouldn't like that job, it's much easier (and less chance of human error) to click a button. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

G

[Wraggy]

And as far as F1 goes they have like 20 races to a championship instead of just 4 so its a bit different I think.
you do realise you cant get F1 at regionals ??? and there are only 6 national races to get and keep your F1 .

[dbizzle5]

Not really. The software works out all the championship tables. It couldn't work out your way of doing it. Someone would have to sit down and work it out. :o I wouldn't like that job, it's much easier (and less chance of human error) to click a button. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

G


True true!

[Northy]

Do away with finals - one huge final with cars all the way to the last man arranged down the length of the main straight. You earn your place on the grid like usual but now you have so much more to race for if you qualified last - you can still win the day! just like real racing!:p

Well it would be easier and easier the more people move over to 2.4GHz.

Lets do it!

G

[losixxx]

mid-west always run quali and finals points. 100 for each, works really well

http://www.telfordmcc.co.uk/brca-midwest/results/4WD%20-%20Rd4%20-%202007.pdf

not exactly rocket science to work out!!

[dbizzle5]

you do realise you cant get F1 at regionals ??? and there are only 6 national races to get and keep your F1 .


Talking about Formula 1 as a comparison Wraggy!:blush:

[Northy]

10th to 1st in a final to me just means that a lot of the front runners have been wiped out!!!:p

10th to 1st in a final means your a f****ng hero in my book! :p:p:p:p

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[dbizzle5]

mid-west always run quali and finals points. 100 for each, works really well

http://www.telfordmcc.co.uk/brca-midwest/results/4WD%20-%20Rd4%20-%202007.pdf

not exactly rocket science to work out!!


See!!! If the Mid west do it like that then it must be possible for the Mid east to do it too!!!

Nice one!!:thumbsup:

[Wraggy]

Talking about Formula 1 as a comparison Wraggy!:blush:
i'll get me coat ..:thumbsup:

[RSharpy]

Fair enough we call it 'racing', but in my book qualifying means a lot more than the finals do.

100 100 all the way, much fairer!:thumbsup:

[pro4nut]

Its not that hard to produce a macro in excell to calculate the results - i am not volunteering!!

Just to answer the earlier question the mid south runs round by round at most tracks, but not all. When round by round is run we run 2 of 4 to count.

Points awarded now as last year for finishing position only. I have to say that the end of year results for the year when qualifying points were awarded and last year still allowed the same drivers to finish at the top.

Having raced under both systems i have no preferance, the day is just as much fun!

[RSharpy]

Its not that hard to produce a macro in excell to calculate the results - i am not volunteering!!

Just to answer the earlier question the mid south runs round by round at most tracks, but not all. When round by round is run we run 2 of 4 to count.

Points awarded now as last year for finishing position only. I have to say that the end of year results for the year when qualifying points were awarded and last year still allowed the same drivers to finish at the top.

Having raced under both systems i have no preferance, the day is just as much fun!Pronut, I ment actual meetings to score points in, ie 3 meetings from 4 or 3 meetings from 5?

Not rounds at each individual meeting for round by round.

Just that with our region having 3 meetings to count from 4 I think to have qualifying included for your points would be fairer. If you were having 3 from 5 it wouldn't matter so much.

[jim76]

mid south is 3 from 4 in both 2wd and 4wd.

if it's easy to add two numbers together then maybe you should volunteer to keep the championship scores up to date DBizzle5?

[Robbiejuk]

Rc-timing does it automatically, Points for Qualifying and points for finals added together is what we have been running in Our schumacher touring car series for the last three years. Automatically does it.

The torc series used to do it a bit differently, where the Qualifying and finals were run as two different meetings essentially So you had 100 points for qualifying, then you got 100 points for finals. Then the amount of rounds to qualify for the championship was doubled so say you had 3 out of 4 rounds currently it would then be best 6 out of 8. Obviously if you had a crap final you could then drop that point.

Personally I think Northy is Right though, we do go to race and not qualify. I mean take the world championships, Neil Cragg wasn't on pole when he won the 2wd and it would be a bit pointless watching the finals if someone had already won it by doing 4 good runs or whatever it is at the worlds.

Adding your points together just makes your tally look bigger in the end and after a while it gets difficult to actually work out how many points you need to get at the next round to beat the guy above you.

I say leave it down to the final and watch that guy who set two fast rounds when the grass was get beaten by that slightly slower guy who has better car control :thumbsup:

[mattym0310]

i agree with northy.
your saying that if somebody does really well, maybe qualifys A1 and they have a bad final then its unfair to penalise them for this and they should be awarded points for doing so wel in qualifying??

well think about this... what if you have this bad luck in qualifying [instead of finals], maybe you have been put in a heat that is too low for your driving capability and this ruins your qualifying so you are in a lower final. in this final you then win it but because you arent in a final high enough to get sufficient points then you lose out. how would you feel if you were penalised for the bad luck you got in qualifying and also lost out in the final?

i personally don't see what you are complaining about, the points system works fine and as northy said it would be a lot harder to calculate

[losixxx]

i agree with northy.
your saying that if somebody does really well, maybe qualifys A1 and they have a bad final then its unfair to penalise them for this and they should be awarded points for doing so wel in qualifying??

well think about this... what if you have this bad luck in qualifying [instead of finals], maybe you have been put in a heat that is too low for your driving capability and this ruins your qualifying so you are in a lower final. in this final you then win it but because you arent in a final high enough to get sufficient points then you lose out. how would you feel if you were penalised for the bad luck you got in qualifying and also lost out in the final?

i personally don't see what you are complaining about, the points system works fine and as northy said it would be a lot harder to calculate


that just doesnt make sense???
if you win you final how can you loose out? surely if your not in a final high enough then that because you havent driven well or had DNF's nothing to do with points scoring.
surely all region's use a the grading system for the heat list, thus you should be in qualy heat's with similar level driver's thus this wouldnt happen
and as ive said, not exactly rocket sciense to work out. after qualis finished a finals list is published, you get quali points on this and the same for final results add the 2 together sorted!! probably take's about 15minutes tops to sort

[MattW]

The software will all do 100 for qualifying and finals - i.e total of 200 for TQ and win.

It has alwasy been that regionals have their own take on it. A few years ago, East Anglia did it on finals only, Mid east did it on Qualifying only. Regionals can choose their own scoring as far as i know.

[mattym0310]

what i meant is say if you have the bad luck that your saying could happen in the finals, but in qualifying and this puts you in a lower final so you then dont get the points you could in the final and the bad luck you've had in qualifying would push you even lower due to you getting less points for this position.

[losixxx]

but that could be the same as if you have a good qualiy but DNF in the final! swings and roundabouts really, i prefer the 2 lots of points

[RSharpy]

If the software is there to be used. Why not put it to the vote at the first regional?

Think 100 100 would win.

[nottmboy]

i think what we have to do is accept the rules as they are for this season, as it is the first year that so many clubs have shown any interest in the regionals in the mid-east. at the end of the season have a mini egm btween the clubs, discuss things that have come up during the season and establish a new set of rules for the following season.

[tak racing]

Hi all,

Thanks for the input and debate on the point system, it shows the region is alive and well!

After a discussion with Charlie I have decided on the following options for points for 2008.

1. To carry on with the current system as per the National series which is the 130 points system with an additional point for TQ

2. To use the 100 points system for qualification and 100 points system Finals, no additional points for TQ as it's already covered by the qualification points.

Both are proven to work.

When qualifying for finals with no points awarded for qualification, every driver knows he is just looking for 2 good scores to get him into the A final without "racing" other drivers.

When scoring points in the qualification stage, every round becomes more like a final and the racing can become scrappy especially with the lower grades.

When away drivers attend we can allow them to run in the qualifying heats with drivers from the region be remove them from the points system and put them into a seperate final of there own.

This can cause some delays and additional work for the holding club as the computer system will need the finals to be manually ammended, but should not cause to much of a problem.

Also we do not know what computer system the clubs are using and a manual scoring system will be used for now. I created last years system in Excel and I'm happy to do the same again as I work with Excel every day.

So with all the above what is your preference on the 2 options for points in 2008.

Thanks

Jim Balls BRCA Mid East Rep

[Robbiejuk]

I say do the same as the nationals at least it eliminates tied points for a round.

At the end of the day either way, to get a good points score and be as high as possible. Take getting BQ for instance, you could have missed out on the A by a minimal margin so if you win the final you get 89 points, guy who qualifed 10th in A finishes tenth in the A gets 90 points so there is only a point difference there.

With the 100,100 ideal same scenario BQ and B final win would mean a total of 178 points , 10th overall and finish tenth in the A would mean a total of 180 points. So BQ loses two points just by being unlucky 11th seems a bit harsh. Especially when there are formula gradings at stake.

I mean the original arguement is that if TQ man crashes out on the firsat corner he will lose out, Well how is that any different with the 100,100 rule? His points surley will still have been affected in the same way. Plus using the 100,100 system means that the person who wins the A final doesn't neccesarily win the meeting, which seems a bit stupid.:confused:

At least you get an extra point for TQ to in the one points way if it does go nuts up for you.

[dbizzle5]

My vote is definatly 100 for qualifying and 100 for final. :thumbsup:

[dbizzle5]

i personally don't see what you are complaining about, the points system works fine and as northy said it would be a lot harder to calculate


Im not complaining at all!! Just thought Id pose the question and it seems to have rattled a few cages. However it goes Ill still be there racing and enjoying it!:p

[RSharpy]

Jim, i'm all for 100 100 scoring. Just feel that with 80% of the day being qualifying this should be rewarded. Quite often qualifying is more of a true reflection on the meeting than the final results. (no doubt I won't be saying this if I qualify 5th and win the final:lol:)

Either way its going to be a good season. :thumbsup:

[peetbee]

Playing devil's advocate here:

If you're saying that qualifying is more important than the final, then just do away with the finals and have an extra round of qualifying! :woot:

[RSharpy]

Playing devil's advocate here:

If you're saying that qualifying is more important than the final, then just do away with the finals and have an extra round of qualifying! :woot:I'm not saying qualifying is more important than the finals, far from it. The finals make the day complete and sholud count too.

Just in regards of the points for the series surley 80% of your day should count for something.

Having points for just where you finish in the finals may work for the Nationals but you've got to remember the Nationals is 4 meetings from 6 so you can drop two rounds, where as our regionals are 3 meetings from 4. Also at the nationals the A final is over 3 legs and not a one off final.

Spliting the points over qualys and finals would be a fairer system for the current regional format. Well thats my opinion.

[CharlieF]

Hi peetbee.
Ay my first visit to a Mid East Regional (before we moved here) I was astonished :eh?::o:eh?:to see half the competition leave the meeting BEFORE finals started. "Why are they doing that I asked.............Points are on qualifying only was the answer"!!!!
Up till then I had thought drivers would want to drive as many time in a day as possible.
As to the scoring system - as I will be taking part in the Mid East my vote is for 100/100:thumbsup:.
Regards

[peetbee]

Charlie, that would have seemed strange to me too! To my mind (assuming qualifying was problem free & putting the points issue to one side!) the final was always the part of the day where you were competing against the people closest to my ability, so would always want to see how I could do in a straight race.

In terms of the points, bearing in mind I'm not racing in the Mid East region (so can safely be ignored!) then giving points for qualifying and finals would be my preference.

[CharlieF]

Exactly mate:thumbsup:. The guys going home we top people of the day (and I am going back a few years - it was at the Stoneleigh Kit Car show) so I can only assume they had done enough to satisfy their racing requirements.

[dbizzle5]

To Charlie and Jim

With only a week to go till the first of whats to be an excellent Mid East series, has it been decided how the points are going to work yet after the great debate on this thread?! I reckon 100 qualifying and 100 final. Seems the fairest way to me?

[CharlieF]

As you know I agree with 100/100 but it is a decision which can be taken on the Day of the first Regional by a show of drivers hands. Whatever the result it will then be good for the rest of the season.
Regards
Charlie.

[Robbiejuk]

From a recent e-mail from Jim Balls, I can reveal the points system is :

100 for qualifying, 100 for finals.

Job done..

[dbizzle5]

Sweet!!:thumbsup:

[stall4king]

Result :thumbsup: