oOple National 1/10th series?

[Frecklychimp]

As mentioned by Jimmy in his awesome Stotfold National report...

how many non-BRCA National entrants would be keen for a National series for us lower ranked drivers... maybe used as a stepping stone and back up to the existing Nationals?

personally i'd love to do BRCA Nationals but can admit that i'll never be talented enough to fluke F1 status... so atm entry to the existing Nationals is nigh on impossible with the Stats quoted in Stotfold report!

So a second series for say F3,F4,F5's?

I would say run on same dates obviously at different venues?

discuss.....:thumbsup:

[daz]

Agree 100% mate, probably have to drop the end of year F3,f4,f5 finals as there wouldnt be much point in them.

[john333]

count me in

[Gsxrturtle]

i think this needs a poll started, i for one would definitely want to race this series.

[luniemiester]

I'm up for something like this!

[MatJohnson]

There are only so many weekends in a year though, to arrange the BRCA national series, your regional series and an oople series would mean every weekend is taken up.

The regional series is meant to be the feeder to the national one and with a series open to lesser drivers, there are still going to be disapointments. If most F3's entered the oople one leaving little space for us F4 and F5's so we would just be shifting the problem.

Also, we go racing for the social side, I wonder how many of us have mates who are just at the same license grade?

[budfish]

Great idea id take part

[coleman758]

It will be like the Invernational all year round!!

[DCM]

I see this as where a gap was left from the now defunct RRCi series.....

[Smartalec]

I see this as where a gap was left from the now defunct RRCi series.....

Correct :thumbsup:

[luniemiester]

There are only so many weekends in a year though, to arrange the BRCA national series, your regional series and an oople series would mean every weekend is taken up.

The regional series is meant to be the feeder to the national one and with a series open to lesser drivers, there are still going to be disapointments. If most F3's entered the oople one leaving little space for us F4 and F5's so we would just be shifting the problem.

Also, we go racing for the social side, I wonder how many of us have mates who are just at the same license grade?

But if the oOple series was on the same day as nationals then that still leaves space for regionals and/or clubbies with the added bonus of knowing that no national drivers will be entered (unlike regionals where they can still race)

[mattybucks]

We would be more than willing to run such an event at our new grass track.:thumbsup:

I actually thought that due to the popularity of 1/10 off road we need another series for the people who can not get into Nationals.

[jimmy]

I think running an event on the same day - not to compete but to give space for all those who can't attend. The BRCA officials say the nationals are for the best drivers - and more people are going to be doing regionals this year in hope of getting a place (Elliott Boots, for example) so it's going to get ever more crowded.
I struggled to get an entry myself last year - there was no chance at all this year.

[adon30]

I see this as where a gap was left from the now defunct RRCi series.....

I remember doing some of the RRCi series many years ago.

That series used to be open to all. But if run the same weekend as a national then the majority of top 1/10th buggy drivers would not be in attendance. But would still be open for entries from good touring/ 1/8th/ 1/12th etc drivers who don't happen to have an F1/F2 buggy license this year. However that is not a bad thing.

[Dazzieboy]

How about incorporating a vintage national series in too as a sort of side show? Just a thought

[RogerM]

I've often thought that something to fill the void the RRCi series left would be very popular .... the killer is who could organise / run such a thing? All the usual suspects are tied up with the multitude of other things they do already!

[pugboy]

Great idea, the f3,4,5 mortals Nationals :thumbsup:

[s22jgs]

i think some people might need explaining what the F-rating is exactly.

Im not totally sure how it works myself.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

i think some people might need explaining what the F-rating is exactly.

Im not totally sure how it works myself.


Read on


21. LICENCE GRADES
The BRCA 1/10th Off Road Section will award driver licence grades as detailed below.
N.B. Where any percentage calculation results in a fraction, then the result will be rounded-up to the next whole number.

21.1 Demotion by a maximum of one grade is automatic if the driver has failed to re-qualify for the same or higher licence grade in the current year. Drivers that have achieved a ‘top fifteen’ place in the Off-Road National Championship Series since 1994 will not be demoted lower than F3.

21.2 Grades gained from the National Championships will take priority over grades from the Regional Championships.

21.3 Licence grades are calculated using the championship positions at the end of the National and Regional Series each year. All demotions and promotions will be effective from the 1st January of the following year and are maintained throughout that year. (e.g. a driver qualifying for an F2 licence from results in 2005 will be awarded that grade on 1st January 2006 and will remain an F2 for the whole of 2006).

21.4.1 From the NATIONAL SERIES:-
F1 and F2 licence grades will be allocated on a percentage basis as follows:- the number of drivers that score points for the minimum number of events for the National Series (ie. 4 from 6 events) will be used as the base figure.

FORMULA 1 – The top 33% of the base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F1 drivers, (2WD or 4WD separately).

FORMULA 2 – The next 17% of the base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F2 drivers, (2WD or 4WD separately). The licence grade for these drivers will be known as F2N, but for seeding purposes is considered equal to
Regional F2 Grades.

21.4.2 From the REGIONAL SERIES:-
All competitors that enter an event(s) that count towards a Regional Championship, will be awarded a licence grade based on their overall position for that Championship (2WD or 4WD separately).
Regional formulae will be allocated on a percentage basis as follows:- the number of drivers that score points for the minimum number of events for a Region’s particular Series (ie. 3 from 5 events) will be used as the base figure. Any drivers included in this base figure, that have gained their licence from the National Series of the current year (F1, F2 and demoted F1) will be subtracted from the base figure to give an adjusted base figure on which the calculations will be based. It follows that Regional licence grades can only be established when the results of the National Championship are finalised.

FORMULA 2 - The top 20% of the adjusted base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F2 drivers. (2WD and 4WD)

FORMULA 3 - The next 30% of the adjusted base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F3 drivers. (2WD and 4WD)

FORMULA 4 - The next 30% of the adjusted base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F4 drivers. (2WD and 4WD)

FORMULA 5 - The final 20% of the adjusted base figure is used against the final series’ results to determine the F5 drivers (2WD and 4WD).

21.4.3 Within BRCA CLUBS:-
FORMULA 5- This licence grade may be awarded to any competent driver at the discretion of the club officials.

[JohnM]

I think another series would be a good idea, but to throw another idea out there, back in the late 90's early 2000's, there was talk about "Northern" and "Southern" National series, then the top however many chaps from each meet up US style to see who is the full National Champ.

The thing about that idea that I like, is would possibly cut down on the travel, depending on how the country is split.

[David Church]

It's great to see so much interest in another series apart from the National series!!! Watch this space people..............:thumbsup:

[tyreman]

F rating licence grades are outlined in your BRCA handbook.

[Adam F]

:thumbsup: Sounds good to me.. :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

sounds good to me too, somthing i would play at


:thumbsup:

[neil_p]

I'd be interested.

Nationals are for the fastest drivers (as it should be), but with 1/10 off road being so popular currently it would be good for the rest to have something similar.

Been done this way in Downhill biking now for a fair few years and it seems to work for every one.

[s22jgs]

I guess I better complete this seasons regionals to get an F grade then lol

[trekkerkk]

sounds like a really very good idea:thumbsup:


trekkker

[knighthawk]

I'm doing the Regionals this year to get my F Grade ( I expect an 5, lol )

I'm up for a same day series as the Nationals for us mortals

[Robocop]

Same day sounds good at least then clubs would know when to have there clubs race day,so clubs dont suffer.

[wrighty]

I think that the f ratings should be a standadised platforrm for all classes ibve not made the nationals in 1/8th this year so have been doing 1/10th im currently a f5 but realisticly im a f3/f4 . A feeder series would be a great idea.

[budgio]

Having only ever been on the reserve lists for any Nationals id love to see an f345 National series happen.
Bring it on ...Please ;)

[mark christopher]

I'm doing the Regionals this year to get my F Grade ( I expect an 5, lol )

I'm up for a same day series as the Nationals for us mortals

your an F5 without entering! lol

I think that the f ratings should be a standadised platforrm for all classes ibve not made the nationals in 1/8th this year so have been doing 1/10th im currently a f5 but realisticly im a f3/f4 . A feeder series would be a great idea.

can not compare each class, so its hard to move accross from one to the other, but if your an F3/4 in 8th, why are you not in nationals?

[russmini]

Yep, cracking idea.

So, who's organising it and which tracks are we going to?


:thumbsup:

[wrighty]

There is no f ratings in 1/8th its easy to get in to 1/8th nats this year all you had to do was enter within the first 48hours of entry open i was to late and was going to be 23rd reserve

[mark christopher]

There is no f ratings in 1/8th its easy to get in to 1/8th nats this year all you had to do was enter within the first 48hours of entry open i was to late and was going to be 23rd reserve
so with all due respect, how do you know your an F3/4?

[DCM]

I wouldn't like to see a BRCA series, but an independent one, it worked in the past and could work now I think. As long as it isn't silly rules like 10.5 motor, only thing I would like is no F1 or previous F1's/

[mark christopher]

I wouldn't like to see a BRCA series, but an independent one, it worked in the past and could work now I think. As long as it isn't silly rules like 10.5 motor, only thing I would like is no F1 or previous F1's/
if its run on same day as nationals you will get few F1's id have thought, to me keep current rules, poss relax motor and lipo list and defo run as the RRCI was, seperate to brca (for no other reason you can do rules to suit such as 6 min qual and finals etc

[wrighty]

so with all due respect, how do you know your an F3/4?

1 a final at regional level and a b this year ....i used to be a f3 about 6 years ago its a guess based on who im racing with at club and regional level mainly compeating with f2s ans f3s

[mark christopher]

1 a final at regional level and a b this year ....i used to be a f3 about 6 years ago its a guess based on who im racing with at club and regional level mainly compeating with f2s ans f3s
many moons ago i used to be a F2, thats a long way off now lol
if your doing regionals you will get your grade anyhow. :thumbsup:

[telboy]

There is no f ratings in 1/8th its easy to get in to 1/8th nats this year all you had to do was enter within the first 48hours of entry open i was to late and was going to be 23rd reserve

I disagree that the 1/8th nationals were easy to get into!!:eh?:
Despite there being no F rating, if you hadn't got your entry in within the first 24hr you were struggling to get an entry!
I sent my entry off when I got paid at the end of the month (not everyone has the funds to enter them within 24hrs) and I was 9th reserve, mainly because 48 entries are given to racers who competed in all last years meetings.

On this topic, if you have not 'completed' a full regional series for 6 years, then you will probably be F5.

I think the National F345's on the same day as the National F1/2's would be a great idea. With more drivers getting a decent finish in Nats and attaining their F1/2 then it will get harder to get into the propper nats. Last year I just scraped in and I was an F3, and not doing any nats or regionals this year, I will be an F4 next year, making it harder to get in again. So a national F345 series would be excellent.
Regarding running the series, it would just have to be the hosting club that runs the meeting and then give results to the BRCA to sort out the series.

Great idea.
LETS GET IT ON!!!!!:thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

tel i think he was being sarcastic :p

[_JP_]

Maybe it needs to be an Official "BRCA" series so it means something...

What if you could speak to the powers that be an guarantee so many places from the "potential" F3/4/5 National series would get an entry to next years F1/F2 Nationals?

May be the top 10 could gain a place making the series a true stepping stone into the Nationals if the drivers wanted that?

[Frecklychimp]

Wow chaps... great to see some interest and some real good comments, really pleased i started this thread!

I read the Stotfold report, PM'd Jimmy with the thumbs up with my backing on his comments, said A1 Racing club would happily host a weekend meeting as part of a series and i'd happily be on board with the organisation team if it was something oOple would back.

If we could get BRCA to back it as a second overlow series then great, but they would need a whole new team of officials to run it as they are busy with the National series proper... as commented, we compete at regionals to earn 'F' gradings... but from the stats it basically means that unless we are superstars we are pretty much cut out of getting National entries and left twiddling thumbs on those weekends... since we wouldn't be at Nationals anyways... why not have another series on those weekends at different venues.

The F3/4/5 idea was to cater more for the regular keen Regional and club based racers and have a championship that catered more for lower skill levels... obviously the BRCA National series doesn't at the minute as the entries are seeded down from the top and places are in high demand.

So we need a place to start, obviously this year is out as it's too late with the season already started and too short notice to make good attendances, ind tracks and get it promoted etc etc.. i know how busy my race calendar is and i'm happily single so don't need a Visa stamping!

Anyways, i'd love to be involved as part of a team of organisers or simply as a racer :thumbsup:

[matthew]

Some really good ideas here, hope it all works out :thumbsup:

[axeman]

I can offer the talywain track!

This is a great idea:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

I think this is calling for a few of the clubs & some experienced guys to get together & come up with some proposals then put those out for voting.
Happy to offer any help I can

[sosidge]

Why the sudden enthusiasm for getting the BRCA involved? Why invite so many cooks into the kitchen? Why "vote" for pete's sake!

I think Jimmy has proven that he can run and promote outstanding race meetings without any BRCA involvement. If he is inspired to run an additional national series, then I am sure he will be able to do a brilliant job of that too!

The BRCA has a structure in off-road... regionals, F-grades, nationals and a couple of end-of-season meetings. Jimmy is just suggesting another series of nationwide meetings for the people that can't get into the BRCA Nationals this year but want to sample the excellent tracks we have around this country and have some good racing.

Why make it any more complicated (or meaningful) than that?

[mark christopher]

got to be honnest the above is what we need

[MatJohnson]

I think Jimmy has proven that he can run and promote outstanding race meetings without any BRCA involvement. If he is inspired to run an additional national series, then I am sure he will be able to do a brilliant job of that too!

That being true, I don't think it would be fair on Jimmy to hold down a full time job, run the forum, any other projects, write reports and run a national series. He might have a life outside of toy cars that we don't know about.

[Northy]

That being true, I don't think it would be fair on Jimmy......... blah blah....... He might have a life outside of toy cars that we don't know about.

Nah, he doesn't! :lol::lol::lol:

[David Church]

There has already been talks about another series. Give it some time guys! It's great too see such good support though!

All ideas are good but next year is a long way off, so keep all your ideas coming, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[chrispattinson]

.........
May be the top 10 could gain a place making the series a true stepping stone into the Nationals if the drivers wanted that?

I can only see this being detrimental to the regional series.

The regionals are the stepping stone to the nationals. Would this proposed new series provide racing at a different level to regionals??? I wouldn't have thought so.

[s22jgs]

surely this would be better being nothing more than an oople series across multiple tracks. forget any BRCA affiliation, and forget effects it has on F gradings.

Just simply say its a series for f345 and non f graded only, no f1 or f2 allowed.

[Frecklychimp]

I can only see this being detrimental to the regional series.

The regionals are the stepping stone to the nationals. Would this proposed new series provide racing at a different level to regionals??? I wouldn't have thought so.

You would still have to compete at Regionals to gain F grading so it is more likely to bring a few folk back to Regionals if they have another chance to use their f grading to race in a national series... There are far more F3/4/5's in the country than F1's and F2's

Some of you guys reading this are maybe missing the original point that the Nationals are over subscribed to the point that even with an F3 licence you barely have chance to get an entry for it... That's more likely to effect Regional entries than providing another National series to cater for the lesser skilled drivers.

An oOple series would be awesome, and a BRCA series would also provide a championship I would love to race at.

[RudeTony]

I used to race the RRCi series and it was great.
I do not recall it being on the National dates though.
I will also mention that great clubs like the ones holding National rounds this year, amongst many others around the country, have top level racers that organise them, run them and so on.
If you run a series on the National dates, then most if not all those drivers will be attending other Nationals so those venues sort of can't hold your events - hope that made sense - LOL

[tyreman]

Just simply say its a series for f345 and non f graded only, no f1 or f2 allowed.

Why would yo want to exclude the F1+2 drivers??
As they would surely enhance the series.

[mark christopher]

because if they all enter, then the lower ranks wont get in just like the current nationals......... this is to give the lower ranks a national ( as in serries over the uks tracks) they can enter and compete in

[daz]

surely this would be better being nothing more than an oople series across multiple tracks. forget any BRCA affiliation, and forget effects it has on F gradings.

Just simply say its a series for f345 and non f graded only, no f1 or f2 allowed.
There is no such thing as a non F grade, even if you have never done regionals or nationals in your life you will start off as a F5.

[pugboy]

Why would yo want to exclude the F1+2 drivers??
As they would surely enhance the series.

It would enhance the standard but then they already have the National Series to enter. I think part of the idea seems to be is that it gives the 'lesser' drivers their own series, sort of a clubman championship rather than the main National Series for the Elite (i.e. F1 and F2). Also you wouldn't want to compete with the National Series and potentially reduce entries in that.

As Tony and others said the Radio race Car Series was an excellent series at the time and although nobody was excluded as such it seemed that there were less of the elite drivers that entered (correct me if I'm wrong as I was a kid at the time). I do remember making the odd A final though and there is absolutely no way I would have done that if it had been the elite drivers.

Lots of good points for discussion anyway and it would seem that it definitely has mileage judging by the reaction. :thumbsup:

[s22jgs]

Why would yo want to exclude the F1+2 drivers??
As they would surely enhance the series.

Because whats the point in it otherwise.
It will just end up as another "national" series, and then 2 years down the line we will be having this same conversation because f345 cant get into either.

Unless F1 and F2 are banned from entering then it will very easily just end up as an F2 national series.

If you want an ideal solution for everyone then each F grading should have its own national series, and it works on a league type promotion/demotion system.

Thats not a viable option, so surely the best thing is to keep this informal, ie away from the BRCA system, and keep it for the lesser ranked drivers.

[David Church]

So you guys that want no F1 or F2 drivers, you believe that this event would be full without them?

[mark christopher]

So you guys that want no F1 or F2 drivers, you believe that this event would be full without them?

as has been said there are far more f3/4/5 drivers in the uk than f1/f2, and the f1/2 fill a national!! how many want to do the oople meet that are not f1/2?
i dare say many f3,4,5 local to the event may enter too that may not ccomit to a serries

[daz]

If it was made into a one day event on the same day as the nationals then it would get a very good attendance with only F3,4 and 5s. Dont think it would work over a full weekend imo

[Dyna]

I agree that current F1's shouldnt be allowed to race, but in the case of F2's the standard of driving is wider tbh - depending on the region, a F2 in region A might just be a F3 in region B.

So you could do the reverse of what the Nationals do - F3/4/5 drivers have prioroty, and spaces left ( if there were any - doubtful by the sound of it ! ) could be filled by F2's that havent got an entry to the Nationals.... ?

Might be a solution.

[sosidge]

Why the rush to exclude people? F1 and F2 are just racers like the rest of us.

[mark christopher]

I agree that current F1's shouldnt be allowed to race, but in the case of F2's the standard of driving is wider tbh - depending on the region, a F2 in region A might just be a F3 in region B.

So you could do the reverse of what the Nationals do - F3/4/5 drivers have prioroty, and spaces left ( if there were any - doubtful by the sound of it ! ) could be filled by F2's that havent got an entry to the Nationals.... ?

Might be a solution.


good idea reverse the entry selection for nationals

[Dyna]

Why the rush to exclude people? F1 and F2 are just racers like the rest of us.

I realise that Dave, but if this is going to be a series for people who cant get an entry to the Nationals because we are not good enough ( i.e. me ), if you allowed F1's to drive ( and most F2's ) it would just become mainly a overflow National series for them - you would still have a good number of F3/4/5 drivers excluded just just the same as it is now.

[DCM]

F1's were almost guaranteed an entry at the nationals, I think the whole premiss of this idea is to have a series for those who haven't got the licence grade to get in. We wouldn't want to have a meeting that maybe isn't on the same day as a National (if it is an oople series, how would Jimmy report it!!!). So we wouldn't want it being a practice for the next BRCA national.

[blue_pinky]

What about thinking about it like the football leagues?

Depending on overall numbers, it would currently most likely be like 2 divisions...

Division 1 championship for F1,2's

Division 2 championship for F3,4,5's

It's all about promotion and relegation then...race dates on the same days (as per football) and in that instance it should all probably be run by the BRCA (who would then probably need to consider expanding the section somehow to manage it).

As it stands our race calenders are already pretty full with stuff...I know I struggle to race everywhere I'd like to once you do club, regionals and nationals...then try to add the one off's like oOple, Telstar are organising one, and I know there are others too.

If another series was run by another person or organisation it then becomes a competitive series to the BRCA, and that will only weaken both organisations as people decide to one and not the other. Surely that is not best for the sport?!?!?

Having said all that....are the regionals already intended to be the 'division 2' races anyway? If you were to ask F3,4,5's how many would actually seriously want to travel the length of the country to race in it? Currently we have a relatively small number of drivers who are used to racing at nats that now can't, but is it really that many? A handful in every region I would suspect? Enough to support another series in reality? I suspect not.

Does it just mean that regionals become more important to people and the organising clubs? Once they are then as big as they can be and massively over subscribed is it then time to think about another championship maybe?

Great the sport is growing like this though isn't it! It's getting better and better all the time. First national this weekend was crazy...the level of the racing has clearly stepped up a gear this year...:thumbsup:

[David Church]

This new series really has you lot excited!!! This is good!

[s22jgs]

maybe reversed entry is the way to go.

There are ceratain floors to basing it on F ratings.... Darren bloomfield as an example was F3 for 2011 and is F2 for 2012. Yet he can run along side lee martin all day long.

Personally i wouldnt do the series if F1 and F2 drivers were taking part. If i wanted to take part in a series with the top guys then i would apply for the nationals.

I think the whole point of this needs to be clarified... its either an overflow series which F345 have a slightly better chance of getting into, or its a series for the lesser racers to enjoy racing somewhere different and against different people.

[sosidge]

I realise that Dave, but if this is going to be a series for people who cant get an entry to the Nationals because we are not good enough ( i.e. me ), if you allowed F1's to drive ( and most F2's ) it would just become mainly a overflow National series for them - you would still have a good number of F3/4/5 drivers excluded just just the same as it is now.

My longer point would be that I doubt significant numbers of F1s (in particular) and F2s would be looking to race in the alternative series. They would be intent on doing the BRCA Nationals.

I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't think that in practice the series getting "flooded" by F1s and F2s who couldn't get into the Nationals is a realistic concern, and not one that you need to legislate against.

[David Church]

I don't think anything needs to be clarified at the moment.

This is what we know so far, there might be another series for 1/10th off road next year, that's it, the rest is just people's ideas and opinions.

I think it's good to have all sorts of opinions and ideas from many different people!!!:D

[jim76]

Having said all that....are the regionals already intended to be the 'division 2' races anyway? If you were to ask F3,4,5's how many would actually seriously want to travel the length of the country to race in it? Currently we have a relatively small number of drivers who are used to racing at nats that now can't, but is it really that many? A handful in every region I would suspect? Enough to support another series in reality? I suspect not.

Does it just mean that regionals become more important to people and the organising clubs? Once they are then as big as they can be and massively over subscribed is it then time to think about another championship maybe?


While i think another series is a good idea i'm not sure it will get the numbers needed.
As said before, the regionals are designed as the feeder series, so that as people improve at regional level they become eligible to race against the elite of the country.
The EoS finals are designed for the lower drivers to compare themselves to other drivers from other regions.

I would be eligible to enter this new series, but with current fuel costs i wouldn't be able to justify the expense, especially if they were weekend meetings with campling fees etc on top as well. And i'm fairly sure the majority of regional racers would view it likewise.

The regional series is designed to give club racers the chance to race at a series of different tracks against the best racers from the region and other clubs. Gone are the days back in the early 90's when i had to prebook to get one of the 120 slots for a regional!!
If every region was oversubscribed for the basic regional events then i think this second series would succeed. I'm just not sure there are enough drivers prepared to travel. Those that are prepared to do this are already in the nationals.

Out of interest does anyone know how oversubscribed each event was this year? 30 drivers? 50 drivers?
That may give an indication of demand.

I like the idea of a North/South divide for the series. This would reduce travel costs and open up the possibility of an EoS final for the top drivers from each area.

[chrispattinson]

....long quote.... 6 posts above..... :

:thumbsup:

[RogerM]

Ok, this discussion is really good and it sounds like there is something going on in the murk of DC's mind at the minute :thumbsup:

The thing is that you will never please all of the people all of the time, so the best thing to do is put some proposals together and put them to the vote (on here not the BRCA unless we do want to get them to autherise it is a national "B" series).

So what are the considerations that need thought? Well to my mind there are a few things (and many more that I haven't put down here).

1) F1/F2 drivers. I can understand that the idea is for the drivers who can't/don't want to get involved in the national series something else to compete in. That said if you start excluding anybody you will also start to exclude their mates they travel with etc etc etc etc.
I think that the best thing is to "discourage" rather than exclude, there are several ways of achieving that; same day as nationals, penalties for F1 drivers (say their times are multiplied by 110% so it moves them down the order ... if they are really 10% faster than the next guy nothing is going to stop them winning anyway!!).
Also the attraction of nationals for a lot of F3/4/5 racers IS to compete against the F1s and see how they compare or maybe just to watch them in awe and hopefully learn a thing or two.
I believe that the attempt to exclude certain groups of drivers from the old RRCi series helped finish the series off!

2) Dates; same dates as nationals will help discourage the F1 drivers (as they would certainly lose their F1 for the following year) but make it harder to organise as the big clubs tend to be run largely by accomplished racers/organisers (who would be at nationals) and also harder to get the media coverage.

3) MUST NOT damage regional entries! Some regions ARE over subscribed (West Mids for example) but most aren't ... if we dilute regional entries some clubs, even some regions, would start to struggle and may disappear. That is bad for the sport so must not be allowed to happen.

4) Rules; start putting motor limitations (as an example) and you will put people off as they will think "I've bought this motor to do regionals / BRCA meetings now I have to buy something else ... not interested". I think keeping the motors & cells as per the ones on the BRCA list helps encourage people to buy stuff they can use at other events and thus help allow them to cast their net wider. Maybe have a 2nd list of "acceptable" motors and cells that are cheaper / lower spec for the beginners etc. If you relax the rules what is stopping Joe Bloggs buying the Super-Dupa-Special monster motor and blitzing everybody who can't justify buying something they can only use for one even/series ... those people then get put off.
I think control tires are an essential though to keep costs sensible, maybe even limit the number of sets used to prevent Mr Moneybags putting a fresh set on every run and nullifying the chances of Little Johny with his paper round budget. You want to keep the tire to a commonly used range to as a lot of people can then chose to 'use up what they have left over' from other events to further reduce costs.
I am also fairly sure that several of the tire suppliers would be happy to do a discounted deal for tires bought at events if asked nicely and given an incentive (like them being the only supplier for wet / dry tire choice).
I also think that the tire choice needs to be consistent for ALL rounds for the same reasons.


There is a lot to consider in my opinion, not knowing what DC is up to I can't comment but one thing is for sure ... 1/10th off-road is back with a bang and the numbers now support more than one national series:thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

roger point 1 kind of contradicts it self, dont allow em or thier mates wont come, hold it on the same weekend, so they will go with thier mates anyhow?

if you dont want a motor, why a tyre? if i travel all over the uk to do such a serries, id prefere to use what i have and not buy a set tyre for each round, unless you mean say shumacher yellow and balistic green as a control tyre at all venues, then i would agree

but bear in mind a control tyre needs policing and the idea was for this to be fun/relaxed

[tc3nitro]

It could be run like the BRCA Clubmans series for Touring cars.....

This would be an awesome idea !

[mark christopher]

It could be run like the BRCA Clubmans series for Touring cars.....

This would be an awesome idea !

thats open to any driver though mark

[millzy]

Sounds good, but what happens when you have ex f1s and f2s dominating the championship as what happens with the f3/f4/f5 finals

Also as an f2 who cant do the nationals, it already sounds like i cant enter this as well, leaves me with the regionals

[Legacy555]

Hi all,

Having run both RC championships and Full size racing championships I can give you the benefit of my experience and suggest that you keep things simple. Simple works really well...

Somebody suggested in a former post that a football style relegation system could be used and I think this is a good idea. Perhaps the last 20 places in the main BRCA "A" F1/F2 championship could be assigned to the top 20 drivers from the "B" Championship from the year before.....

Some barriers to entry to the "B" Championship will have to be thought of to protect the regionals. Maybe you would have to have competed in the regionals in year 1 to get entry to the "B" Championship in year 2, to hopefully finish in the top 20 and get into the "A" Championship in year 3 ??

Just a few thoughts......

[ollie]

Just a quick question, why another National Championship??


For many years now the regionals have been the stepping stone for racers wishing to move to national level racing and the have worked effectively within the section.


While a championship would be welcomed by many (me included) it could be one like the previous mentioned RRCI series aimed at the lower F graded drivers.

This would be great for the hobby and would not interfere with regional entries and F grading; if as mentioned ran on the same dates as the BRCA national championship.

[Frecklychimp]

There still seems to be comments coming through with concerns that a National 'B' championship will damage Regional attendances... You would still have to race at Regionals to earn an 'F' grading to enter as current Nationals work, so if anything it will encourage Regional attendances...

At present if you compete at Regionals and are F3/4/5 level then you can go no further due to Nationals being full of drivers with better skills.

Rules etc would all have to be in line with Current Nationals or there is no consistency with the championships.

How many lower ranked racers don't even try and enter Nationals anymore because of being rejected previously?

The only real way of knowing if this will work and be popular is to set it up and try it

[jimmy]

Ignoring any relation to the existing BRCA national series I think would be the way to go. There are people who want to do nationals and can't get in - and there are people who want to race in a slightly more relaxed and welcoming environment where having a spot of fun is as much a part of it as the competition on the track.
You might well get some quality drivers wanting to come and race at the sharp end - but I don't think another national series would tempt a single big sponsored driver away from the BRCA series.

I've raced F345 finals or regionals or even club meetings where there's been a great atmosphere, it's relaxed etc - but the actual racing was great.

Trophies, junior class, prizes from sponsors, numbers that stick on cars and look good, concours competition, marshall of the day, etc etc.. Above all I think it should be fun.

I never got to race the RRCI series myself - but I've heard good things.

[mark christopher]

jimmy do it, they will come

[trekkerkk]

i agree with jimmy its got to be fun,
years ago i used to do regionals and south of watford meetings,
all these meetings allthough had kevin moore etc....were very much fun events,
i really enjoy my regionals and nationals,
but i would love another sort off race meeting for fun,
as know regoinals you have to do to get your f licence has taken some off the fun away,
so deffinately just what jimmy said:thumbsup:



trekkker

[chris68nufc]

I have read most posts and the proposed new series sounds really good. Im an F3 at present, I was at the national at the weekend just gone and the standard was a very very high. I really enjoyed the weekend apart from my own results watching the top drivers etc. Im convinced that an F4 or F5(apart from somebody like elliott boots) wouldnt enjoy driving at the nationals anyway until they are good enough to be competative.
1 mistake and that was almost enough to drop you into the bottom finals.
The proposed series(along with Regionals) would allow lesser F grade drivers the chance to be competative and challenge for the top spots in the new series. This would make the step up to nationals not as severe for the top F3/4/5 drivers. It needs to be on the same day/weekend as the nationals as then regionals wouldnt be at all affected apart from meaning that you are racing 2 weekends out of a month!
Go Jimmi and oOple crew....thats what i think!

[jayst]

i wud be defo up for it :thumbsup:

[RogerM]

roger point 1 kind of contradicts it self, dont allow em or thier mates wont come, hold it on the same weekend, so they will go with thier mates anyhow?

What I was meaning was that if you exclude an F1/F2 driver that doesn't want to do nationals but would rather spend time racing with his F3/F4/F5 budies then none of them might show up to your event. For example I drive my friend Adam U around the country for race meetings, I am faster than he is on basic pace so if I was excluded he would probably chose not to get in his car and burn the fuel alone. (And before somebody says anything I know I'm not doing nationals this year and am having to work hard to get hold of an F2 via the 100 strong west mids regionals ... just treat it as an example).

If you discourage the F1/F2 driver (by adding a performance penalty, putting it on a national weekend etc.) and he still choses to race then in your series with his mates then why not let him? Just make sure he doesn't get it all his own way!


if you dont want a motor, why a tyre? if i travel all over the uk to do such a serries, id prefere to use what i have and not buy a set tyre for each round, unless you mean say shumacher yellow and balistic green as a control tyre at all venues, then i would agree


Because we buy new tires most events but buy 1 motor a year (some people get years out of a brushless unit). If I had to use TIRE A at a cost of £8 to compete I'd not be put off, if I had to use MOTOR A at a cost of £50+ I'd never enter. I think a lot of people are the same.
The other thing with a motor rule is that a lot of F3/F4/F5 drivers still have some assistance from shops / distributors and thus might not be able to get MOTOR A and / or upset their supporters by using it.
Then add in to the mix the fact that some of the faster drivers might be able to drive a 7.5 around blindfolded but Little Jonny might struggle to get around with a 13.5.

I loved stock racing in years gone by, would be well up for a 13.5 or 10.5 championship personally but I know a lot of people who aren't interested in bolting in anything slower than say a 5.5.
Maybe include a limited motor class (say 10.5???) as a sub championship, that way everybody is still racing together but those that felt happier running mild motors had their own title to chase rather than getting pushed down the order by those that can hang out with a 4.5. Now if somebody from the "limited" class was making overall A finals then good on them (... and I bet they would have people offering them assistance fairly quickly).
Might be worth excluding the F1/F2 guys from the "limited" class though, nobody like being beaten by pot hunters ;)

I did state any control tire should be a "commonly used" tire so people could "use up what they had left from other meetings". Soon as you force people to use something they aren't familiar with and will never use again many will be put off. Schumy / BB minis are well used and understood tires ... I bet everybody reading this has got a set glued up waiting to go! The thing is they have no reason to sponsor / assist a series such as this so it might be better to offer an alternative tire IN ADDITION to attract their assistance. You have to be careful to find teh right balance though.



but bear in mind a control tyre needs policing and the idea was for this to be fun/relaxed


RRCi used to have scrutineering, I remember my Pred being under weight and there was always "discussion" about legality of stock motors if one brand proved dominant. I think that a few sensible rules encourage a fun atmosphere as they rememove the "how do I beat Jonny as he has that special motor" and / or "they are cheating as that isn't in the spirit of the event". We've all seen that.
As for the number of tires allowed it is as simple as marking the sidewall / wheel joint with some nail varnish ... maybe allow 1 set of brand new or 2 sets of warn, have a different colour for each and move along each meeting (so last meetings new becomes the next meetings used).

As I've said before there is no way to please everybody so the best solution is a few sensible souls get together, thrash out 2 or 3 proposals for formats/rules and put them up for vote on this forum. Make up the overall rule set based on the most popular non contridicting ones.

[jim76]

There still seems to be comments coming through with concerns that a National 'B' championship will damage Regional attendances... You would still have to race at Regionals to earn an 'F' grading to enter as current Nationals work, so if anything it will encourage Regional attendances...


You don't need to do a regional to be an F5, everyone is automatically an F5. So you may see F5 drivers drop out and do this new series. Or club racers may miss the step to regionals and go straight for a national series.

[Shifta]

I think it is a great idea for an oOple series to be ran on the same weekend as the BRCA National series although that would mean no more cracking National reports from Jimmy & Vicky! Also as mentioned in an earlier post, quite a few of the people who run the clubs with the tracks people would want this series to run at will be away competing at the nationals so this could be a problem!

As for people worrying it may also be over subscribed unless F1's & F2's are excluded I dont think this would be the case as we were told at the weekend there were a total of 169 drivers who submitted an entry for the national series so thats only 49 people who didn't make it! Most of them being F345's but I bet there are lots of F2 drivers who for whatever reason don't want to enter the full on National series but would fancy a more relaxed weekend at an oOple event!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[JBL]

I'm up for it, just need the entry form. This year I am the top F4 in the mid south region, I haven't managed to get into any national events (im 4th reserve for EPR, the rest around 10-17).

I would definately look forward to it, because even if I do have a strong year and become a F3 again, I can't see myself getting into any nationals next year either.

I might be speaking out of turn, but I would think Silverstone MCC would be interested if this happens (no doubt Chuckiestella will confirm).

[mark christopher]

I think it is a great idea for an oOple series to be ran on the same weekend as the BRCA National series although that would mean no more cracking National reports from Jimmy & Vicky! Also as mentioned in an earlier post, quite a few of the people who run the clubs with the tracks people would want this series to run at will be away competing at the nationals so this could be a problem!

As for people worrying it may also be over subscribed unless F1's & F2's are excluded I dont think this would be the case as we were told at the weekend there were a total of 169 drivers who submitted an entry for the national series so thats only 49 people who didn't make it! Most of them being F345's but I bet there are lots of F2 drivers who for whatever reason don't want to enter the full on National series but would fancy a more relaxed weekend at an oOple event!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


or thats only 49 who thought they may have a chance, there may be 150 who knew thay did not stand a chance and never bothered!

[mark christopher]

What I was meaning was that if you exclude an F1/F2 driver that doesn't want to do nationals but would rather spend time racing with his F3/F4/F5 budies then none of them might show up to your event. For example I drive my friend Adam U around the country for race meetings, I am faster than he is on basic pace so if I was excluded he would probably chose not to get in his car and burn the fuel alone. (And before somebody says anything I know I'm not doing nationals this year and am having to work hard to get hold of an F2 via the 100 strong west mids regionals ... just treat it as an example).

If you discourage the F1/F2 driver (by adding a performance penalty, putting it on a national weekend etc.) and he still choses to race then in your series with his mates then why not let him? Just make sure he doesn't get it all his own way!



Because we buy new tires most events but buy 1 motor a year (some people get years out of a brushless unit). If I had to use TIRE A at a cost of £8 to compete I'd not be put off, if I had to use MOTOR A at a cost of £50+ I'd never enter. I think a lot of people are the same.
The other thing with a motor rule is that a lot of F3/F4/F5 drivers still have some assistance from shops / distributors and thus might not be able to get MOTOR A and / or upset their supporters by using it.
Then add in to the mix the fact that some of the faster drivers might be able to drive a 7.5 around blindfolded but Little Jonny might struggle to get around with a 13.5.

I loved stock racing in years gone by, would be well up for a 13.5 or 10.5 championship personally but I know a lot of people who aren't interested in bolting in anything slower than say a 5.5.
Maybe include a limited motor class (say 10.5???) as a sub championship, that way everybody is still racing together but those that felt happier running mild motors had their own title to chase rather than getting pushed down the order by those that can hang out with a 4.5. Now if somebody from the "limited" class was making overall A finals then good on them (... and I bet they would have people offering them assistance fairly quickly).
Might be worth excluding the F1/F2 guys from the "limited" class though, nobody like being beaten by pot hunters ;)

I did state any control tire should be a "commonly used" tire so people could "use up what they had left from other meetings". Soon as you force people to use something they aren't familiar with and will never use again many will be put off. Schumy / BB minis are well used and understood tires ... I bet everybody reading this has got a set glued up waiting to go! The thing is they have no reason to sponsor / assist a series such as this so it might be better to offer an alternative tire IN ADDITION to attract their assistance. You have to be careful to find teh right balance though.




RRCi used to have scrutineering, I remember my Pred being under weight and there was always "discussion" about legality of stock motors if one brand proved dominant. I think that a few sensible rules encourage a fun atmosphere as they rememove the "how do I beat Jonny as he has that special motor" and / or "they are cheating as that isn't in the spirit of the event". We've all seen that.
As for the number of tires allowed it is as simple as marking the sidewall / wheel joint with some nail varnish ... maybe allow 1 set of brand new or 2 sets of warn, have a different colour for each and move along each meeting (so last meetings new becomes the next meetings used).

As I've said before there is no way to please everybody so the best solution is a few sensible souls get together, thrash out 2 or 3 proposals for formats/rules and put them up for vote on this forum. Make up the overall rule set based on the most popular non contridicting ones.

all well and good but such as robin hood dirt, they specify the tyre.
to me im happy either way, but i dont think it needs to be too comlicated, regionals run open tyre and motor and they work ok

[RogerM]

Your region runs open motor & any tire? Interesting, in the Mid West we run to the BRCA lists and nominated control tires and have done for as long as I can remember!
I thought most regions were similar!

[Dudders]

Mid south is open choice...

[i4n]

Wales is open choice too

[tnx king]

I think this is a great idea please KEEP IT SIMPLE..

one thing i would like to add !! could one of the events be held at a big public arena ?

We used to race at wollaton park when they had a carnival or something on it used to be a proper crowd puller!! ,

( We still need to promote our sport to as many as possible), and what better way then,showing off to the public !! and by keeping it simple and fun, this could help get new fresh blood coming through, which we all know we need !!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[pro4nut]

Just a couple of thoughts,

I would enter a series that

1. Was 1 day only (sundays) as i work most saturdays
2. Didn't involve me travelling 'up north', (petrol cost and i have to work again monday)


This year I probably won't be attending the F3's as the fun element of the first one i attended at Tiverton however many years ago that was, as the atmosphere at these meetings has become a bit uptight for me. Some people seem too bothered about winning to enjoy the day.

I will go to as many regionals as i can, and with no clubs local to me thats all the racing i get, so another series would be welcome.

[RogerM]

Wow, didn't realise so many regions hadn't picked up the control tire thing. Lack of control tires was half the reason I stopped 1/8th rallycross, carrying 3 hauler bags if tires around I MIGHT need but rarely did became just too silly! For me the advantage of a control tire is a level playing field, gets a bit frustrating when somebody shows up with 1 set of magic tires worth 1s/lap when you've got up at dumb am and driven for 2 hours.
Might just be me I guess!


So moving on I have a couple of other questions;

1) how many rounds would people want?
2) how far would the typical person be willing to travel?
3) one day per class 1 day meetings, both classes same day or two day meeting with a class per day like nationals?
4) would people be happy to have points purely off qualifying if it allowed a "limited motor" class to be mixed with the main class .... finals just for fun?
5) include a junior championships as part of the main class, separate heats or not at all?

All interesting stuff .... hope your making notes DC ;)

[Frecklychimp]

1) same as number of nationals, on same dates.
2) don't mind as long as camping is available
3) 2 day meeting run like oOple with qualifying and finals spread over weekend
4) Open motors/tyres etc but homologated for Venue BRCA insurance cover
5) Junior class run with everyone but seperate trophies/championship for top three in U13 and U16 classes.

Mid-East Region has Schuey Minispikes, dBoots Multibytes, Ballistic minispikes and Fastrax Turf Rippers in any commercially available compound as our homologated tyre list for driven wheels, works well and we run on Astro and Grass venues for Regional series.

[jaysllim]

Wa about wheelchair access?

[mark christopher]

1) same as number of nationals, on same dates.
2) don't mind as long as camping is available
3) 2 day meeting run like oOple with qualifying and finals spread over weekend
4) Open motors/tyres etc but homologated for Venue BRCA insurance cover
5) Junior class run with everyone but seperate trophies/championship for top three in U13 and U16 classes.

Mid-East Region has Schuey Minispikes, dBoots Multibytes, Ballistic minispikes and Fastrax Turf Rippers in any commercially available compound as our homologated tyre list for driven wheels, works well and we run on Astro and Grass venues for Regional series.

you only have to be a brca member to have cover, using eb homlogated items has nothing to do with it. the eb list is only for sections/serries who choose to use it, it is not a requirment to use it.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Possible venue could be Dynamix Raceway if this proposed series goes ahead. :thumbsup:

http://www.oople.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=152

https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100003678410150

video by Lee Dalton
KlkB6481PLc

[Robocop]

Thats one thing i do miss about racing touring cars (dont hit me:lol:)the saturday practice.Its ok if your one of the superstars but some of us would like to have a day of practise to try things.Camping on the saturday night socal meet new friends etc.May get others from clubs as it is two days then you may not,but what puts me off is driving all that way for just a day i know monies are short for everyone at this time but somthing to think about.

[RogerM]

3) 2 day meeting run like oOple with qualifying and finals spread over weekend


Whilst I can see the attraction of this it makes for a VERY long day if your only running 1 class.
Remember some of the guys who we'd hope to support this series only have one class or share their RC equipment / motors etc. between 2 cars.

Again I think somebody needs to make a note of all these suggestions and then put them to the vote ..... there will be almost as many ideas for the perfect format as there are racers!!!

[Jim Spencer]

Hi

There's really no such thing as a 'Non BRCA' race meeting in the UK as you're pretty much all members of it.
It's just that you vote in some folk to run the British National Championship,and regionals etc on your behalf..
The National series is no more a BRCA meeting than the club gig i'll be at tomorrow - just that those folk mentioned above run the former and it's the club folk running the latter.

A different bunch of you Getting together to run some other race meetings to enable more people to get together in competition is exactly what the association is about - it's not Non BRCA though it's Pro BRCA as that's the ethos of the sport, that's exactly what it's all about

Just as was the RRCi series or any other come to that - all of them existed for that self same reason, getting people out racing!

Keep up the good work, nice to see a group who are prepared to get off their backsides to facilitate more racing


My parting thought is - don't forget the club scene though, worth just making sure the club scene is in rude health, occasionally in the past too many big meetings have adversly effected clubs, though going by the level of interest currently doubt that will be a problem!

[Stu]

I'm astonished (maybe I should know better though) that just three words ("oOple series, anyone?") in a race report can generate 6 pages of forum posts and >3500 thread views.

I like the above suggestion that notes need to be taken and there needs to be a vote on the rules of the series.

Has anyone sent a PM to Jimmy asking to book in? If anyone has he'll like it, it will be funny.

[mark christopher]

here you go stu
http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99074

did not want to get blame for filling jimmys box :woot:

[neiloliver]

I read this thread with interest and wanted to let you know about a meeting that Oswestry Radio Car Club are holding on the same day as the Robin Hood National.

The meeting is open to 2WD, 4WD and SCT. At least four heats for all drivers plus a final. Trophies for all class TQ and winners of all finals.

If you want to race against other F345 drivers then this is the event for you!

You can enter by PM'ing me with your usual detail.

Entry fee is £8 per class payable on the day.

Thank you, Neil

[telboy]

All I can say is, those that cant get into the 1/10th nats should come over and have a go at the 1/8th electric nats next year...or even this year, you can still book in for the meetings.
:thumbsup:

Great fun and fast, strong cars.

[gprogers]

Sounds good to me, count me in. Hasn't there been some work on the track as well?

Be interesting to see how many people are keen to prove themselves without the superstars there. Should be an excellent relaxed day!!

2 weeks to go then.

[neiloliver]

Yes, there has been significant work during the spring to reduce the bumps on the astro-turf sections. It should be a good day - the rain will have stopped by then.

N