New forum disscussion track improvements.
 

Right guys after chatting with a good few members and non members today and their thoughts on the track and the general opinion was its to big and to flat so let's have a broad disscussion on what we want.

1st. New race control built in brick ? We are absolutely miles away financially it'll take years before its even a consideration to invite planners and architects.

2nd improve the track which I think if we spend what we have now on different surfaces and some bigger features ie the ramp infront of the table top today was good and that it should become like that permanently wouldn't cost much and the upside down saucer in the middle should be a huge 4ft volcano type mound with long fast jump length ways and slow high jumps width ways would be cool I think if we spend it now the new race control would be funded faster than if we proceed on this crown green characterless track

3rd but a roof on the rostrum



No silly responses please just constructive opinions

Buds

Ramps
 

We have loads of ramps not even used most of the time and think maybe surface change in places would be easy and cheap to do... But I also think bury as a club which i have gone to on and off since i was 14 which adds up to over 20 years when the divs at bury model shop ran it and in all that time as always had good steady number but i don't think you will change the number of people because of few track changes just won't happen with best will in the world which is the reason roger always said no... But I do agree that a few cheap changes without blowing loads of money would be more suited to bury

2 years ago at the agm we decided to put club racing fees up to a fiver from 3 quid the basis of the decision was purely based on to raise extra cash for track improvements. Since that point virtually no money has been spent by the club on this agreement. That's why there's the money is there

4 years ago the club said it was closing since then we've had a new track attendance is up year and year costs ain't going up only by a gallon of petrol a month which ill tell you now is roughly the same as the rent if or when they collect it.

Over the years I spoke many times about this to roger at my house his house and at the track and I know it's what he would want

As for numbers again I beg to differ I've loads of mates/buds balls sponsored f1/f2/f3 drivers all over the country the one thing they take away with them from our track is its crap

The quality of a club is measured by the quality of its track full stop

I do kinda agree with you it's boring as hasnt got anything to it really but numbers wish people wont change there habits any time soon although batley is flooded so people may come from there unless they take up boats lol i just think maybe some new bits be great idea

It's a great starting point we just need someone with the balls and the cheque book to say yes. Trust me it would pay dividends look at what the gymnasts got holly mollie what if the built them a gym with no changing rooms or no bleeding ropes hanging from the ceiling would they have excepted that? You should of seen the fools the council sent to build it they hadn't a clue.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...5/f26986a5.jpg

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6f746e4c.jpg

Me and rob mills on one of the many jumps we used to have

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/...5/acd176b7.jpg

The wood on the block paved hair pin on top of one of our high speeds jumps at the end of the straight

The problem as I see it is that people always say they want stuff, but then they don't like it when they get it....

The track isn't flat. Its got more jumps than Southport for a start - the difference is that Southports track banks up towards the back. Also Southport has more bumps, which substitute for jumps.

Whilst on the subject of Southport, people grumble that Bury is all one surface, but at Southport they complain about tyre wear instead. Because the new track lacks the cobbles of the old one tyres last forever - you can't have it both ways.

My concern is that more than a few people have told me that the 'Death or Glory' ramp on the old track was what nearly killed the club - because getting it wrong meant a broken shock tower. But that is exactly the sort of thing gets built when you ask people what they want.

Jumps
 

In fact the double jumps on the old track that took roger and stu ages to do some members came and dug them up lol it's not all bowt what people think because sumone always have diff view and my view a prem table top be mistake when we have 2 wooden 1s both diff sizes sure people can have ideas that arnt expense and easy to try maybe a diff type surface on the track?

It was the edging stones and the dodgey joins in the astro that threw you into things like trees/bushes/cabins/over the grassy knoll that killed the cars 20 ton of hardcore 20 square metres of block paving would be all we need the astro we cut up for the block could be used to patch in the extra proposed jumps

Ever been to the astro track at robinhood Phil?

I'm fully aware I've only been once, but maybe a fresh set of unbiased eyes and opinions helps.....
I personally like the idea of improvements to the roofing of the rostrum, to include improved railings.
I enjoyed the track, joins in the astro are well done, I do feel that a change of surface to part of the track if carefully done would be of benefit.
The up ramp to the right hand table top would be better as a permanent feature, however please take care that seeing the upside of the ramp isn't possible from the rostrum.
The 'X' bump I felt broke the consistency and flow, because it's not consistent across the track.
Electric supply to the control would also be of benefit.

You are very lucky having such a location, I look forward to seeing the club and track continue it's development.

IMHO I think the old track was way better
The new one is boring and unpredictable
The table top jump is rediculous and different every lap and to have that as the first major corner at the start of a final is crazy not just my opinion.
The quads are ok they can be done every lap quite consistently but are also random as there different on both sides and also a car braker if you get them wrong.
Think personally going from the old track with multiple features to the new one was a massive down grade but that's not my decision.
The people who moan about tyre wear need to spend a bit more money on tyres if they want to be competitive which is what racing is all about isn't it!!!!
Also think its very wide the track and where ever you stand on the rostrum you can never quite see each part of the track especially when someone sticks there big head out!!!!

There are other things to consider. I did like John's ramp before the tabletop - it worked really well but I also noticed that getting is sufficently wrong (think novice driver with powerful car - we've seen a few of those) could cause the car to fly out into the pits! It was also a marshaling hazard which is why we moved Alan off there.

Anyway I've been thinking about this and realised the problem isn't the track but what we do with it. The blank canvas approach means it can be different every week which is good, but also bad - where is the consistency, the improvement? The week 17 laps was good, next meeting it might only be 12 so how do you know you are driving better?
RC Timing has the ability to set up circuits. I propose we use some astro paint in different colours to mark up a few possible course options (Lets call them red, blue, yellow etc) We can choose a layout for the meeting and RC timing will let you compare your times against your best for Blue circuit.

I like the idea of a choice of set circuits, an intelligent approach to such a space.

The track nearly closed last time due to the fact the club roger and woody wouldn't listen to the drivers and their attitudes. Novices??? Who cares!! Novices don't stay novices very long. If you remember Si even woody didnt come and race at goshen for the the first 12months me,you and rob started.it was only when the numbers went up he started coming back.

It just wants the time and effort putting in which none of us can afford so pay someone to come and do it! As I reiterate this was the agreement at the 2011 AGM when we nearley doubled the race fee to do theses things.

Stop running winter meetings that don't make money at count hill for starters it's in Oldham.its a crap venue

As for the new track it's not even about attracting more numbers but keeping the ones we have got.

Yesterday's marshalling and the track quality was very poor. I raced batley last week and loved it ill be racing southport next week end. Bet you don't have to wait untill everyone's lapped you before a Marshall eventually responds to your 12th shout to turn you car over it just ruins your day

This isn't London we don't need diffrent coloured lines everywhere that's why we have moveable hoses

That picture actually shows some of my point though - our current track isn't 'flat' in terms of its track features, but it is in terms of pure geography. The old course had dips and banks but no more actual jumps.

A dip is a jump but going down instead of up

Marshalling/racing with large rear drops to the fences causes problems I feel. Better to have barrier follow the contours? Safer and quicker....?

There are marshaling issues with cars ending up between the fence and tabletop for both tabletops - and the banked bend too. I'd rather fill in to the fence but we've been told we can't for some reason.....

But its not is it - doesn't work the same.
What I'm saying is we need landscaping not massive jumps.....

Re:Track
 

I have nowhere near the experience of most of you guys on here, I raced on the old track for a short while, left the scene for a good few years and then came back to the new track about 18 months ago. The best way of doing anything is to look at what other people are doing and copy the best bits, in business speak 'best practice'
So you guys that have seen all the other tracks around the country and raced for years, which is the best track and why? And can we copy the good bits?
I agree with Bud, a brick race control is a dream. I don't think it should be beyond us to find a welder and some corrugated sheet to roof the rostrum.
For what it's worth IMHO some surface and elevation changes would make for a more interesting track, I think we already have enough options for jumps.
I work in the roadworks industry so could certainly help with stuff like Tarmac, block paving etc
We need to reach consensus among the members and get on with it!

God i miss the old track.
But i really do agree with buds here,
it needs changing for next year to maintain current members.

Yes we have jumps, but they are too aggressive and inconsistant.
Dont need to be mulit surface, look at Stofold/Broxtowe.
I saw jonny post astro for sale..did anyone respond to it?
Seems to me that this isnt going to happen because people dont want it to happen.

Ive raced at bury on and off since 94, and members are the highest ive seen them.
If you want to keep it that way for a good few years, changes to track need to be made IMO

I agree I shouldn't have said massive jumps but yes landscaping and contour changing you can get huge height off a 2 foot kicker somthing we don't have now

As for wooden jumps aren't the meant for indoors and non permanent grass tracks? Shouldn't be being put out on an astro track

Needs sorting lads

Needs sorting in the correct channels.

If the members put a suggestion to the committee, then a comittiee meeting needs to be arranged to discuss.

I do get your point ive seen it but never raced there but i agree the top of the old straight with the jump a then the paving was a good feature for sure it took bit skill even more so in wet ... Surely si we could look at making somthing on one the straights could have a flat back one and one with jump or 2 down it and maybe even bit block paving? Also roof for rostrum i know we're there is some free roof panels but they are astpestof there not damaged so arnt dangous if we handle it right

A bit of Tarmac or paving would be good , maybe different astro , anything to give variation is surfac type
Sculpting and landscaping would give the track more character and a permanent well designed jump would add fun and some airtime even a proper berm that you can hammer round

It's not just bury members who want this
Go to other clubs talk to racers and pros alike we all agree bury needs changing
Some from other clubs may not comment much as they feel rude or its not there place but they say quietly " burys shit now it needs changing" they comment that it runs swell and is a friendly club though

Also the negative comments against def t track features are bullshit
That volcano will flood , what like yesterday
Kids will jump a proper jump on bikes
What like the kids racing at Batley that jumped the jumps during the finals break on scooters
Or at Kieghly were James lad was riding a quad over the awesome doubles

Lets build a track thinking of what could go right not wrong
And when it comes. To building lets get contractors to do it
I've got southport Astro guys number
We could ask James from rhr
And I'm sure there's others
Get some designs drawn up
Mine are still about somewhere
Get 3 grand or more out
And let's build a track that makes ya wanna come back year afte year
Rather than wanting to drive an hour away to get a challenging varied race day
Bury can be ace but its our track to modify and it needs it

this is just my opinion but we raced at bury for years and Matty has done for the last 11, the old track was night and day better than the new one end of,
the new track lacks features that's the word you need to use jumps don't need to be big or hard to do as long as new racers can drive over them slowly while they learn and the better or top guys that have the skill levels can jump or ramp 2-3 together SAFELY and be challenged, people /racers will come back
the reason most of us don't come is the track is overly awkward to get around all your features are up against the fence were one mistake kills the car so cant be driven fast and safe or daft and safe, ramps/jumps features/bomb holes should be track central and safe for untalented and novices alike but challenging enough for the experts,take a look at Broxtowe, rhr, rhr dirt, epr,even southport small but challenging,you guys need help and big help and quick IMHO.

If we are paying of course it needs doing properly.
However the track is the least of our problems. We need power to race control and perhaps a proper race controller who actually wants to be there and some members who'll turn out to maintain the track they have before we need to worry about becoming a Robin Hood clone.

Si this is Not a dig at you or any other the committee members.

Power to race control is a must and shouldn't be hard to achieve

We have you,mark,gav,rob,Birdy,Darren as committee members we only run every 2 weeks so if you all did it in turn that's once every 3 months instead of it being left to one man.

But the track is a must ASAP

What's there now is good, and definitely a good starting point for any improvement.

The features in there are good, but only when they're run in a certain direction or way... When the track changes week in week out and a certain feature is run in a different direction it can go from a really nice and easy obstacle to something unpredictable...

I think if you look at the old track and Southports, you've got features that are run the same way every time and work well (in my opinion), but the track layout can be changed to use or miss out these features and that way you have dynamic layouts but the features are always the same each time.

Just my thoughts on it.

So everyone wants a change but no one has actually thrown any solid ideas into the mix yet, ie where things could go what specific areas need to be changed etc,
is it worth getting a mock up of the track from above so you can throw your ideas into it, (with the current features already in there) - I would do this but at works computer cant upload anything. just a simple mockup on paint would suffice, then people can edit it each to their own, post it back up in the thread and try and get the best ideas together?

I understand what bigred is saying about jumps being car killers, for example the table tops, if you misjudge them you can be throwing your car into the fence, so is it worth thinking about some sort of netting or maybe even a permanent feature to stop/help reduce this?

and buds,
"Stop running winter meetings that don't make money at count hill for starters it's in Oldham.its a crap venue"

any ideas where else we could do it then? i quite liked the indoor racing over winter, throws abit of a mix into the yearly series,its a big enough hall its just a ball ache to set up a track there due to all the duct tape, but what other ways can you do it?

Winter meetings make little if any profit unless they are very busy. But Counthill is a lot cheaper than most possible venues so consequently less people need to go to cover the costs.
The other option is no racing at all over winter - we tried outdoors and its too bloody cold!

here are some sketchs i did in winter
weve been on about this for two years
{edit oople is being arsey and i cant upload pics}
but a fe people saw them during the winter rounds
i ill get em up soon
we need more action and pics or designs les talk and naysaying

i have also contacted a sk8park builder i know
he works for councils and all his guys have cscs cards
he built radcliffe sk8 park in concrete
walmsley sk8park
and many more 150000 pound plus parks around britain
uses a 10000 pound design package and i think hes the man for us
roger spoke to him in the past about track building to
he is a top contractor and can build anything we want
he says he will talk to our committee and he could start work in a few months
i ill be forwardeding his details to the other committee members
even if we do two features or modifications a year we are on course to a top race track in 2 or 3 years
the old track evovled with time this needs to as well

I've never been to the new track - not because I don't like things I hear, or even you bunch on clowns, but because I don't race away from York anymore. Here's my opinion anyway...
This was my favorite old skool track: Tiverton outdoors.

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/tiver.../tiv4wd021.jpg

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/tiver.../tiv2wd055.jpg

No big jumps, or obstacles, but massive height changes that the photo doesn't do justice to.
These are the key to all the great astro tracks in my opinion - look at RHR. From the bottom of the bombhole to the top of the tabletop is over 5 feet! And bombholes make excellent downramps (critical to not destroying a car).

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/2012n..._Panorama1.jpg

So... If I remember from the pics correctly, what you have now is a dead flat track with some features built in?
Is there any reason why the astro can't be peeled back and "re-sculpted" under it?
If you need more astro James (at RHR) has dozens of rolls.

power for race control is as simple as a genny that's all batley use and have done for years

deleted

bit harsh Chris,
but i do agree with some of your comments, the cross is very unpredictable, and the banked corner at the end of the straight is not a1,

but as Col has said why cant we just peel back the astro and re-sculpt those bits?

I also think that tabletops/ramps near fences is not a brilliant idea personally,

but that burr/banked corner at the end of the straight at rhr looks awesome, and as Col also said the bomb drop is pretty deep, you could probably get a midget in there without seeing him.

Resculpting the the cross in the middle and altering the quads(somehow) would be the top of my list.

Agree its harsh.
But its also true, and as a member,
im putting my opinion across.
If we are not going to put what we really think,
then things will stay the same.