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Kopite 11-03-2008 12:43 PM
xx4 Ackerman
 
Hi guys,

still relatively new to the ways of the xx4, so i have some questions...

The steering links. Do people run the links on the inner or outer? And what difference does it make?
Also, if you were to compensate the link difference (from outer to inner, or vice versa) with a different length rod (to keep the same space between the links), would this have differing results to the ackerman?

Rear belts. I've spoken to a few people about this over the weekend, cos i snapped my rear belt after 2 runs (which clearly suggests i'm doing something wrong). Do people run it tight, or loose? and what's their reasons for this? I know i made the mistake of running the slipper too tight as well, but i want to make sure i'm doing everything correctly.

CR Rear Wishbones. Are the CR rear wishbones for the XXXCR (that i use on my xx4) the same both sides? (ie can i swap them round, and have no affect on handling). Again, i have heard differing views on this, although my suspicion is that they do alter the wheelbase if you swap them round.

Stanners :thumbsup:

Southwell 11-03-2008 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopite (Post 102881)
Hi guys,

still relatively new to the ways of the xx4, so i have some questions...

The steering links. Do people run the links on the inner or outer? And what difference does it make?
Also, if you were to compensate the link difference (from outer to inner, or vice versa) with a different length rod (to keep the same space between the links), would this have differing results to the ackerman?

Rear belts. I've spoken to a few people about this over the weekend, cos i snapped my rear belt after 2 runs (which clearly suggests i'm doing something wrong). Do people run it tight, or loose? and what's their reasons for this? I know i made the mistake of running the slipper too tight as well, but i want to make sure i'm doing everything correctly.

I run mine A forwards, never skips and havn't ever broken 'touch wood' a belt before, they have now done all last year and a few meetings this year too. You want to run it as loose as possible but without belt skip to keep the drivetrain free.
If your slipper is buggered then it tends to lock up rather than slip ive found, which will break belts in no time. I would replace the pads and possibly the plates too.

CR Rear Wishbones. Are the CR rear wishbones for the XXXCR (that i use on my xx4) the same both sides? (ie can i swap them round, and have no affect on handling). Again, i have heard differing views on this, although my suspicion is that they do alter the wheelbase if you swap them round.
EDIT: Not 100% on this but i think they are sided, the dots on them indicate the sides.

Stanners :thumbsup:
.......

Gayo 11-03-2008 12:54 PM
Yes, the XXX CR bones (and the standard XX4 bones) are sided, usually you have the "EA3" logo facing the rear. It gives short WB which suits the inboard toe-in.

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 12:58 PM
Stan rear belt tension should be b forwards and the cr rear wishbones are nto directional you can use tem either side. As for steering link i think pretty much everyone runs outer.

A

Kopite 11-03-2008 01:00 PM
see...already there is contrasting opinions :confused:

Southwell 11-03-2008 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleyb4 (Post 102888)
Stan rear belt tension should be b forwards and the cr rear wishbones are nto directional you can use tem either side. As for steering link i think pretty much everyone runs outer.

A
B forwards is generally too tight. and the wishbones ARE directional.

losixxx 11-03-2008 01:03 PM
ive run B forwards for 4 years and never done a rear belt 700 side belts but not 1 rear:lol:

Gayo 11-03-2008 01:03 PM
Lol
Look better Ash, they are sided. I have just checked once again.

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 01:07 PM
I have my xx4 and my rear belt tension is set to b with the arrow pointing forwards like sleigh told me to run t and as it has been run since the indoor finals last year when it was new.only ever snapped one rear belt. And i have a brand new pair of rear cr arms here and there not directional.

A

Southwell 11-03-2008 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by losixxx (Post 102893)
ive run B forwards for 4 years and never done a rear belt 700 side belts but not 1 rear:lol:
Really? Mine was like a banjo string on B forwards....Really you need to judge what it's like when you build it, but im of the opinion if A forwards doesn't skip at all then it will be free'er and work more efficently.

Southwell 11-03-2008 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleyb4 (Post 102896)
I have my xx4 and my rear belt tension is set to b with the arrow pointing forwards like sleigh told me to run t and as it has been run since the indoor finals last year when it was new.only ever snapped one rear belt. And i have a brand new pair of rear cr arms here and there not directional.

A
There are dots on them for sides....

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 01:10 PM
Ill shut up but i was right about the belt :p lookingmore closly the idffrence in microscopic.

A

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 01:12 PM
but it all makes a diffrence.

A

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 01:14 PM
make sure your slipper is also set right stan as this will snap belts as when you land off a jump it puts extra strain on your belts.

A

super__dan 11-03-2008 01:17 PM
ACtually it's 2mm IIRC on wheelbase change with wishbones on original ones.

Swiss 11-03-2008 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southwell (Post 102897)
Really? Mine was like a banjo string on B forwards....Really you need to judge what it's like when you build it, but im of the opinion if A forwards doesn't skip at all then it will be free'er and work more efficently.
A forwards always, as Southwell said. Always run mine like that, never had any problems with belt breakages. Regarding the Ackermen, outer holes. I believe if you run the inner ones makes the steering more agressive??

_sleigh_ 11-03-2008 01:32 PM
OK then.. for a start Stan obviously didn't trust what I'z told him at Kiddy:p

Ackerman was pretty much always in the outer holes, to give a "parrallel" look to the steering bellcranks . I think (although never tried myself) the other setup is better on dirt/low grip tracks, gives more initial turn in.

I always ran the belt on B forward, as it was generally the thought that a very loose belt (ie A forward) would 'flap' about in the tunnel and give issues with wear and vibration. With the exception of a borrowed car at the Euro's (France) I never broke a rear belt.

As for the wishbones, they ARE handed and I believe it makes a small difference in the wheelbase. Check your CR manual if you're in any doubt (page 7)

Kopite 11-03-2008 01:36 PM
Now now Mr Sleigh, it's not that i didn't trust your judgement, it was just that i literally have been told completely different things in terms of the rear belt. To me, a loose one isn't the way forward as it'll just 'whip' the belt more when accelerating, and snap easier. however, i just wanted to know what the general view was!

unreal how almost everyone seems to disagree with this part of the car!

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 01:38 PM
Sleigh the man listen to him stan and you cant go wrong.

A:thumbsup:

Southwell 11-03-2008 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopite (Post 102921)

unreal how almost everyone seems to disagree with this part of the car!
I think you need to use your judgement when building the car, b forwards was way too tight on my car last time i put a new belt in and a forwards was pretty spot on, if not still feeling a tad tight. If i was breaking belts the first place i would look at would be the slipper.

_sleigh_ 11-03-2008 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kopite (Post 102921)
Now now Mr Sleigh, it's not that i didn't trust your judgement, it was just that i literally have been told completely different things in terms of the rear belt. To me, a loose one isn't the way forward as it'll just 'whip' the belt more when accelerating, and snap easier. however, i just wanted to know what the general view was!

unreal how almost everyone seems to disagree with this part of the car!
:D:thumbsup:

If you struggle with the belts at the Indoor Finals, I'll give you a hand.

.
.
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.
.

I'll just lend you a D4 :woot::lol::lol::lol:

Kopite 11-03-2008 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by _sleigh_ (Post 102932)
:D:thumbsup:

If you struggle with the belts at the Indoor Finals, I'll give you a hand.

.
.
.
.
.

I'll just lend you a D4 :woot::lol::lol::lol:

how would you cope if i beat you with your own car?:woot:

_sleigh_ 11-03-2008 01:59 PM
If it made you realise that the D4 is better, I'd be fine with that. :thumbsup:

ashleyb4 11-03-2008 02:57 PM
haha you make me laugh you know you wher ebtter where you were

A

MattW 11-03-2008 06:23 PM
I ran A forward all last year. Broke one belt at Stotfold (aka last meeting of year), but in fairness car was 2nd hand to me, so fair to assume belt had already done a fair bit of work before i got it - so no complaintes from me on that one.

Slimboyfat 11-03-2008 07:53 PM
Sleigh, Your old car had 'A' forwards on it...?

I have never done a rear belt but a few few front and side and I have tried B backwards and A Forwards. I use A forwards at the moment and have had no problems thus far.

Slipper is very important and there is a fine line between being perfect and too tight in my opinion.

Danny McGee 11-03-2008 08:00 PM
A forwards, thats what ive run since christ knows when.Never really too many issues with belts.

Wishbones i agree with Phil check the manual as there different.

niggs98 11-03-2008 08:15 PM
as everyone (ish) says its A forwards as long as it dont skip, i build mine on feel so sometimes run b forwards if it is a loose belt. the more important thing is to get ya slipper set right like oj says, if it is to tight u will go through belts like there is no tomorrow,


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