new amb system

[TheReferee]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

But the MRT PT's have to be made, cost less and can be repaired for much less than £36.
Its not like Mylaps themselves need to offer repairs - just using a case that allowed access would meant 3rd party repairs could be made.
Mylaps have made the decision that their PT's aren't repairable - it wasn't to save costs, its not for technical reasons so its clearly to make you have to buy another.

Actually having a case that can open means having some form of mechanical seal, which can fail, i spent a frustrating day yesterday trying to get a machine working due to a sensors mechanical seal failing and allowing in water, bearing in mind the transponders spend a lot of time getting wet, AMB "could" have decided to seal fully and prevent moisture ingress and so make a more reliable product.

the problem with this thread is people are making statements of fact based on no knowledge. is an MRT a counterfeit? or a perfectly acceptable implementation of AMB technology, what does it cost to produce either type, did AMB deliberatly change the firmware to not read MRT or was it a by product of the new firmware. etc etc.

unless a representative from AMB and or MRT can come on here then you are all guessing and the conspiracy theories are getting more outlandish.

that said the schoolyard 5 year old name calling between robby and mark christopher is most entertaining

[RogerM]

May I ask a question please?

What difference are people expecting this sort of thread to make? Is it really worth the bad feelings that are being created between fellow adults who are daft enough to get up at unpleasant am on a weekend morning to race each others plastic models in the pouring rain?

The way i see it the decision that needs to be made is this;

Do the clubs / BRCA sections feel that the ongoing support for their timing equipment is worth the potential disruption to a propertion of their members? If so they upgrade now.

Knowing a couple of the people likely to have been involved with that decision for 1/10th off road section i can assure you they would have looked at every available option before making the final choice.

Am i right in thinking there is no other comercially available & supported alternative to the mylaps decoder which would run with any of the current transponders in common use?
If so it seems there was no decision to make.

Please put the gloves down, time for a group hug I think

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by knighthawk

Mark,
I've nothing to hide from
Just changed my mind in my post

You are pro MRT !
I don't care either way really, as long as my laps are counted !!

Cheers
Derek

But I own both.......

[spenner]

Honestly.....

Are you all grown men on here ????

Either meet up and sort it like grown up's or just let opinions be opinions, it was valentines day on the 14th....... surely some of you let off some steam

Sadly, this is what keeps manufacturers off oople. But, it does not mean that they don't read through it. (with a bag of popcorn)

Round 2...... ding ding

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by andy110m

How can someone address an issue but not the point? I wasn't discussing car insurance but the redress you'd expect from another manufacture or any manufacture from which you bought a product, used it, broke it and then expected them to right it for very little money.

Think about theses pt's will be produced by a machine in a factory somewhere. For them to set up a service as you suggest would be very expensive and that would add to the overall cost of the units. Or if they'd have said they could have serviced it but at a cost of £25 plus P&P at £5 plus vat, £36 total I certain you'd have moaned at that saying its only a 2 quid wire.
But its not the cost of the wire, its the staff and all that related cost.

Sadly, in our sociality, items of this value, relativity low at under £80 are considered consumable, throw away items

So an 80 unit is throw away yet a cheaper MRT is fully repairable by user for wire and MRT for any fault.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

But the MRT PT's have to be made, cost less and can be repaired for much less than £36.
Its not like Mylaps themselves need to offer repairs - just using a case that allowed access would meant 3rd party repairs could be made.
Mylaps have made the decision that their PT's aren't repairable - it wasn't to save costs, its not for technical reasons so its clearly to make you have to buy another.

[Si Coe]

Originally Posted by Oli_M

I'm not sure why there's all the blame on MyLaps here.

I would suggest the issue lies squarely with MRT. They sold a transponder which was "supposed" to be a clone of the original AMB PT. Now, the AMB PT continues to work on all the AMB/MyLaps decoders, and yet the MRT doesn't.

So it's not a very good 'clone' is it?

If it was doing what it was supposed to be doing - it replicating the same signal as the AMB units, then it would work fine on the new decoder and there would be no issues for anyone.

It's a tough decision for clubs. The Essex Winter Series currently has two decoders, and we understand a lot of people using MRTs. For sure it's not an ideal situation. I hope MRT get their units sorted out ASAP which will help everyone out.

Well this is the funny point. I don't think the lack of MRT support is deliberate - well not as in 'lets make a version that blocks off those MRT's'.
What I suspect is that there is a certain amount of variance in the signals between each type of unit. The older systems were quite tolerant of this variation, RC4 isn't.
When making RC4, Mylaps will have tuned it to read older AMB's. They simply didn't do MRT.

[jimmy]

Originally Posted by spenner

Honestly.....

Are you all grown men on here ????

Either meet up and sort it like grown up's or just let opinions be opinions, it was valentines day on the 14th....... surely some of you let off some steam

Sadly, this is what keeps manufacturers off oople. But, it does not mean that they don't read through it. (with a bag of popcorn)

Round 2...... ding ding

Yeah thank goodness we don't have any ma... oh, yes, we do!

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by andy110m

Think about theses pt's will be produced by a machine in a factory somewhere. For them to set up a service as you suggest would be very expensive and that would add to the overall cost of the units. Or if they'd have said they could have serviced it but at a cost of £25 plus P&P at £5 plus vat, £36 total I certain you'd have moaned at that saying its only a 2 quid wire.
But its not the cost of the wire, its the staff and all that related cost.

In amongst all the immature 'banter' Mark has a valid point. Mylaps made a transponder and if the wire snapped off Mylaps basically says tough, buy a new one. If you dropped your transmitter and it stopped working you would expect the distributor to be able to offer a repair service, even if it cost £50-100 it's still cheaper than being told to just go buy a new one at full price. Why should Mylaps be any different.

The 'they have to set up an expensive service department' argument doesn't wash either. Mtroniks ESCs are famous for being waterproof, due to the components being sealed in potting compound. This means if their ESCs break they can't be repaired. Instead of repairing them if it was a manufacturing fault you got a free replacement, if you damaged it they replaced it for £15-20 which no doubt covered their production costs. I know many racers who have been very happy to have their old dead top spec Mtroniks ESCs replaced with the latest versions for a £20 fee.

There is no reason apart from profits for Mylaps to not supply replacements for damaged transponders at a reduced price. I don't think most would have had any complaint if they did offer replacements at £25-35, the problem is they don't even do that.

To be fair, we get it pretty good compared to other transponder users. R/C cars isn't Mylaps main business, it provides transponders for all forms of sport and motorsport right up to F1 and Nascar. Those transponders will set you back £240, and even in those according to Mylaps the battery isn't replaceable either. They have now started 'licensing' them for a £34 a year subscription. That does actually include a decent warranty, that might have something to do with the fact that if they stop working Mylaps stops making any money on them.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Oli_M

I'm not sure why there's all the blame on MyLaps here.

I would suggest the issue lies squarely with MRT. They sold a transponder which was "supposed" to be a clone of the original AMB PT. Now, the AMB PT continues to work on all the AMB/MyLaps decoders, and yet the MRT doesn't.

So it's not a very good 'clone' is it?

If it was doing what it was supposed to be doing - it replicating the same signal as the AMB units, then it would work fine on the new decoder and there would be no issues for anyone.

'Clone' is a bad choice of word to describe the MRT, there's no way you could confuse it with an AMB/Mylaps. It's just a different device that does the same job as a Mylaps. No one claims the Kyosho RB5 or Losi 22 are 'clones' or 'copies' of the B4 just because they do the same things the B4 does.

From what I have read up on this the problem isn't that the MRTs are transmitting a different signal, it's that the signal strength isn't as strong in the MRTs so when the decoder is updated it for some reason it reduces the sensitivity of the decoder so they don't pick up the weaker signal. Has someone not connected with Mylaps actually tried testing MRTs with an RC4 decoder to see if it is possible to tune it to get it to work?

[skiv]

If only MyLaps has made the purcy a hybrid version too, in that all the functions of the Purcy worked on RC4, but it also worked on RC3 with cut down functionality. Maybe on the purcy-1 counted on rc3 and the -2 -3's didn't or it doesnt even care about the -1 -2 etc.

Then no one would NEED a new bug, no one would NEED a new decoder, the advantages would be there if you wanted to purchase, perhaps the trade in price would have been higher because of less take up, but everyone would have had a choice.

The way Mylaps has gone about it is seems like they couldn't care what the clubs and drivers want, just what they want to pretty much force them to have.

As a by product they cancel the MRT product at the same time, something that almost all of us would have done if it were our business.

[Mr Eccleston]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

'Clone' is a bad choice of word to describe the MRT, there's no way you could confuse it with an AMB/Mylaps. It's just a different device that does the same job as a Mylaps. No one claims the Kyosho RB5 or Losi 22 are 'clones' or 'copies' of the B4 just because they do the same things the B4 does.

From what I have read up on this the problem isn't that the MRTs are transmitting a different signal, it's that the signal strength isn't as strong in the MRTs so when the decoder is updated it for some reason it reduces the sensitivity of the decoder so they don't pick up the weaker signal. Has someone not connected with Mylaps actually tried testing MRTs with an RC4 decoder to see if it is possible to tune it to get it to work?

I think the reason people refer to the MRT as a clone is from MRT's own wording.

http://www.team-mrt.com/pdf/rclaps/ptx_form.pdf

[scooterboy]

There's only one way to sort this out......Fight!!!!

[Crazy L]

Hey guys

I think by now everyone has got their opinions across by now, and that's all they are really. What's more, whether you like it or not (I don't) it is happening. Nothing any of you say is going to change a damn thing, and as much as I love a bit of banter, I'm sick to the back teeth of seeing this thread crop up in bold type every time I log in .

Can we please pack it in?

[jimmy]

Originally Posted by Crazy L

Nothing any of you say is going to change a damn thing

I appreciate the circlejerk that is this thread, but saying nothing can change is wrong. There's only one way to change things - and it aint by sitting back thinking you don't have a voice.

Since no one else gives a toss, I'll write to Mylaps and express my dislike of the way things are going re:lack of handouts. They will likely ignore me (I would) but it's worth a try.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by jimmy

I appreciate the circlejerk that is this thread, but saying nothing can change is wrong. There's only one way to change things - and it aint by sitting back thinking you don't have a voice.

Since no one else gives a toss, I'll write to Mylaps and express my dislike of the way things are going re:lack of handouts. They will likely ignore me (I would) but it's worth a try.

add my name/email to the email jimmy, or post a draft mail here and ill mail it too, maybe a mass of the same email may make em think?

[Robby]

Raced with a club the other week, that obviously used a RC3 Decoder because they were still selling MRTs and I know of a few people that picked them up.
Raced with another club today and some of those same racers showed up, and it became evident early on they had a RC4, though they wouldn't admit it until later, as all of those same people (along with club regulars) were having lap counting issues.
Personally, one of my MRTs routinely missed laps throughout practice while another newer one didn't register at all (especially baffling). Have long had an old mylaps to serve as back up, that worked fine (though it did limit me to running one class) - but there were a lot of unhappy racers that vowed not to return.

As one chap put it, "If it was announced well in advance, I might have not been happy but I would have understood. What you did was like saying just because I didn't have a Sanwa radio or a Novak speed control I couldn't race. But I'm not sure who I'm more pissed off at, MyLaps for these pointless shenanigans, MRT for not being on top of it, or the club for upgrading something that didn't need upgrading."

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by Robby

Raced with a club the other week, that obviously used a RC3 Decoder because they were still selling MRTs and I know of a few people that picked them up.
Raced with another club today and some of those same racers showed up, and it became evident early on they had a RC4, though they wouldn't admit it until later, as all of those same people (along with club regulars) were having lap counting issues.
Personally, one of my MRTs routinely missed laps throughout practice while another newer one didn't register at all (especially baffling). Have long had an old mylaps to serve as back up, that worked fine (though it did limit me to running one class) - but there were a lot of unhappy racers that vowed not to return.

As one chap put it, "If it was announced well in advance, I might have not been happy but I would have understood. What you did was like saying just because I didn't have a Sanwa radio or a Novak speed control I couldn't race. But I'm not sure who I'm more pissed off at, MyLaps for these pointless shenanigans, MRT for not being on top of it, or the club for upgrading something that didn't need upgrading."

The blame here if true is on the club !
If you'd been told then you could have fitted your amb pt and all would be ok, or simple not gone in the first place.

No blame can be put on MyLaps in this instance as the upgrade is an option offered to every club and every racer. This update is global across the whole MyLaps range of products, RC as its been said is a very small part of their market.

MRT have known about the potential problem since 2011 ( quote from MR Christopher ) , maybe an updated instruction leaflet should now be issued to say "NOT RC4 COMPATIBLE", then racers wouldn't buy them if they race at a RC4 club.

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by Robby

Raced with a club the other week, that obviously used a RC3 Decoder because they were still selling MRTs and I know of a few people that picked them up.
Raced with another club today and some of those same racers showed up, and it became evident early on they had a RC4, though they wouldn't admit it until later, as all of those same people (along with club regulars) were having lap counting issues.
Personally, one of my MRTs routinely missed laps throughout practice while another newer one didn't register at all (especially baffling). Have long had an old mylaps to serve as back up, that worked fine (though it did limit me to running one class) - but there were a lot of unhappy racers that vowed not to return.

As one chap put it, "If it was announced well in advance, I might have not been happy but I would have understood. What you did was like saying just because I didn't have a Sanwa radio or a Novak speed control I couldn't race. But I'm not sure who I'm more pissed off at, MyLaps for these pointless shenanigans, MRT for not being on top of it, or the club for upgrading something that didn't need upgrading."

Which club was it? people need to know to avoid inconvenience.

[knighthawk]

Originally Posted by jimmy

I appreciate the circlejerk that is this thread, but saying nothing can change is wrong. There's only one way to change things - and it aint by sitting back thinking you don't have a voice.

Since no one else gives a toss, I'll write to Mylaps and express my dislike of the way things are going re:lack of handouts. They will likely ignore me (I would) but it's worth a try.

Jimmy,

I totally agree with the handout part of this argument, when a new member approaches a club to start racing the handout's were great, it was something the club could offer the new racer to help them enjoy the experience and show their laps were counted and correct, if they liked the sport then it's a choice to upgrade to the PT.

But can you also send a letter to MRT asking them to update all their info and publications to show their product is now not 100% compatible with MyLaps lap counting decoders, this way new and old potential purchaser's know in advance if they are buying a life limited product .

Thx