Round by round ftd tyres

[skiv]

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.

[PaulRotheram]

Round by round works better as you have to be consistent - you are able to drop rounds where you mess up.

FTD - if it is dry in round one, and you mess up, then it rains for the following rounds, you have NO chance to do anything.
Or the same for some tracks, the grip levels change - high grip at the start and dust / dirt comes up making the surface less grippy = slower time.

You 'heard' someone used 5 new sets - you heard nothing but crap, even national drivers dont tend to do that anymore. And even if they did, does that mean you have to? Are you fighting for top 3 places at regionals / nationals?

I go through two a meeting, and then use both pairs for practice another time, they get plenty of use.

[Piles]

Originally Posted by skiv

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.

Round by round was introduced to help with fairer qualifying if weather turns bad. But unfortunatley the idea is badly floored. I dont know why its still favoured. Sunday I was the victim of round by round and qualified badly as a result. Ftd is far fairer especially on the more favoured tracks of astro as we seem to run now. Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated. I for one would vote for FTD to be re-introduced.

[skiv]

No I am not fighting for top three positions if I was I wouldn't be posting this thread.
I can see both points but I would still favour ftd as tyres seem to be a key to a quick time and some of us don't want to be spending fortunes on tyres chasing quick times.

[PaulRotheram]

If tyres favour a quick time - which of course it does, then why would it not matter in FTD? you still get 4 runs to put in a time, if you run new tyres for each run, then you can impove?

If you run the same set all day, then youl go slower? So how is it better?

[Steveonamission]

Don't race buggy's, however isn't there a control rule where you are only allowed a certain number of new sets maximum? Otherwise that sucks and i'm glad I don't race them.

[RLGfx]

Originally Posted by Piles

Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated.

Clearly you weren't at the 2wd mid west regional at hinckley on Sunday...

[daz75]

guess it the same as any form of motor sport, the people with more money do better

[fidspeed]

its like anything if you want/can fight for top positions then you have to follow the trend

you can be Lee Martin/Neil Cragg on the wheel or sticks but that's no good if your tyres are shot , mainly because others will change as often as necessary . it may indeed be a set a run its not unheard of although most astro tracks you should get two runs without a noticeable drop off

ftd offers no solution really as weather conditions track surfaces can change drastically

we even suffered this in a regional this weekend in two out of four rounds so it still wasn't "fair"
if you went back to ftd and got a clean run in round one and it suddenly rained why bother to run any more rounds just wait for the final

money cant buy talent top guys have the equipment and talent equipment is not the great black art it once was you can easily run with the best with budget equipment

I don't think there is a perfect solution

[Aire valley]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

Round by round works better as you have to be consistent - you are able to drop rounds where you mess up.

FTD - if it is dry in round one, and you mess up, then it rains for the following rounds, you have NO chance to do anything.
Or the same for some tracks, the grip levels change - high grip at the start and dust / dirt comes up making the surface less grippy = slower time.

You 'heard' someone used 5 new sets - you heard nothing but crap, even national drivers dont tend to do that anymore. And even if they did, does that mean you have to? Are you fighting for top 3 places at regionals / nationals?

I go through two a meeting, and then use both pairs for practice another time, they get plenty of use.

Mmmm....so one set per round is crap....but you use two sets per meeting.....I.e one set every two and a half rounds...
..still seems pretty expensive to me...!

[discostu]

This is a typical tc racer racing buggy I was the same when I moved over

It's pretty simple if you want to be at the top of buggy and tc racing new tyres all the way

I'm not sure if tc racing is still the same we had control tyres two sets per meeting round 1&2 new round 1 round 3& final 1 new round 3 all rears for 2nd final

Buggy round 1&2 new for r1 round 3&4 new round 3 new final 1&2 new for final 1 final 3 no need to race as already won

You have more races if you make the A so will need more tyres

If I were racing nats I would use a new set of rears on 2wd every run including finals

And use the same sets in the rear of the 4wd for Sunday

2set of front on both 2wd and 4wd

It's is what it is if your competive enough to be thinking this way you will be putting new tyres on if you really don't care you will use used

Stu

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by skiv

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.

That's a non argument, if it's on ftd the driver you say used a set a round will still use a set a round, even on astro, it might rain, sand may come out of the astro.

I race buggies round by round and a national serries on ftd.
FTD benefits one run wonders, round by round fast consistent drivers.

[daz75]

Originally Posted by discostu

This is a typical tc racer racing buggy I was the same when I moved over

It's pretty simple if you want to be at the top of buggy and tc racing new tyres all the way

I'm not sure if tc racing is still the same we had control tyres two sets per meeting round 1&2 new round 1 round 3& final 1 new round 3 all rears for 2nd final

Buggy round 1&2 new for r1 round 3&4 new round 3 new final 1&2 new for final 1 final 3 no need to race as already won

You have more races if you make the A so will need more tyres

If I were racing nats I would use a new set of rears on 2wd every run including finals

And use the same sets in the rear of the 4wd for Sunday

2set of front on both 2wd and 4wd

It's is what it is if your competive enough to be thinking this way you will be putting new tyres on if you really don't care you will use used

Stu

Jesus that's a lot of tires it's been a long time since I raced either my dad couldn't afford it or tires lasted longer back then

[skiv]

It's not a argument just interested in people's thoughts that's all. And what I have experienced over the last few meetings. There are some interesting points and it clearly appears tyres are a huge factor not just in buggies over all rc classes.

[fidspeed]

Tyres are the single most important factor in all motorsport because they are the only item that contacts the terra firma and instigates forward movement .

In 25 years of racing the "right tyre" used at the right time makes more difference than any chassis /setup alterations

look at F1 they have weather monitors forecasting weather changes just so they can be on the right tyre when needed

years ago when outdoor tracks were predominately grass green minispikes were the order of the day and I seem to remember they did last a bit longer than today because they were a harder compound than the yellows we use on astro now

regards dave

[skiv]

I completely understand that tyres are the most important factor. I just find it quite frustrating how quickly they last. Especially when the tyres look fine but just don't perform as well after a couple of runs.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by Piles

Round by round was introduced to help with fairer qualifying if weather turns bad. But unfortunatley the idea is badly floored. I dont know why its still favoured. Sunday I was the victim of round by round and qualified badly as a result. Ftd is far fairer especially on the more favoured tracks of astro as we seem to run now. Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated. I for one would vote for FTD to be re-introduced.

I agree, ftd is fairer, even though Jody Denner didnt deserve to tq kidderminster national in the 90s he did the best run in the dry before the rain, however if your good enough and appears on that day no one was against Jody and shows that a great setup helps you can take tq in the wet after someones posted ftd in the dry, and yes I have done that (against Jody as well) so round by round is several steps backwards to ftd.

[Aire valley]

It always seems to me that "round by round" was some bureaucratic decision to overcome some complaint about track conditions changing...(in case of rain etc..if it rains ,I go home..).... Like, most of those rules, it is over the top and has been applied to just about every meeting, when it , probably, was only intended for "changing conditions "....
Clubs have the option to use either, but most stick to round by round at every meeting, even indoor...!
I know that I am old fashioned, but give me FTD every time...

[dwp102]

FTD is more of a spectacle also

[Danosborne6661]

The only thing I don't like about round by round is you forget what it's like to go RACING!

You can't look at the results and go 'Oh I need to drive fast and do a '14 - 304' to get in the top 10. Instead you just got to constantly drive more average than everyone else and see where you come out

Round by round just takes that slight competitive edge of it some how.