Original Cat re-release - If most of us want it, it may come!

[BORMAC]

Yep the news sucks! Not that this suprises me though. While Cecil was a true gentleman and a pioneer of this hobby I dont think he would get much of a say now that Robin holds the reigns of the company.

Its dissappointing for lots of reasons but its kinda sad that Robin didn't make this his 'pet project'. This project would have been the perfect way to show respect for the man who started it all by working on re-releasing the car that put them on the map. If it had not have been for the CAT this company would never have taken off. To simply pass this concept off in lou of making money elsewhere is a sad thing to hear.

Im sorry if my comments upset anybody but Ive been a major fan of the Schumacher product for many years. Robin has missed a perfect opportunity to realy put Schumacher back on the map. Sadly money should not be the only reason a project like this is considered.

A sad day for me but one I half expected anyway.

[Glenn]

Keep trying. I never had an XLS when it was first released but I always wanted one. They are trading on e-bay at around £400 so a re-re would make good business sense. I can't see how they would lose money, especially if they re-engineer it to take LiPo and brushless systems. I think it could be a good club car.

The problem with all the re-re's is I want them all. I need a bigger house and an even bigger bank balance to get them. My vintage optima costs enough. Not sure my wife would be impressed......but I want one anyway.......

[Si Coe]

Its not been 'passed off to make money elsewhere', its been shelved as financially not viable.
They'd need to make new tooling (which costs money) and divert resources from the Cougar SV (which should make money, so by diluting its develop will in effect cost Schumacher sales) for a car of limited commercial value.

If you look, the only people doing Re-re's are Tamiya. Thats because practically every kid in the world had a Tamiya at some point. They sell more to non-RCers who had one as a kid than to retro-collectors.
A Cat re-re would be great, but its not going to sell nearly as well as a Sand Scorcher re-re as it really only appeals to those who were racers in the late 80's.

Despite the interest here Schumacher have assessed that there is not enough demand to warrant the costs so aren't going ahead. Its a better way of showing respect to Cecil than bankrupting the company he created making an expensive model for a limited market!

[Adam F]

I would imagine that tooling up an old car with fairly limited appeal could be a huge risk for Schumacher, injection mould tools cost thousands, plus the amount of design resource that would be needed, as I am guesing the old drawings are probably prety poor compared to todays standards and would need re-visiting...

I raced a Cat XLS/Procat back in the day and just bought another Procat only last week, but cant say that I would splash out on a re-re Cat, would love to see one, but dont think its anywhere near viable commercially..

Now if they would just re-release the Procat body's & belts that would be great

[BORMAC]

Some interesting points put forward.

I still feel the same though. Schumacher have spent atleast the last 5 years designing and releasing so many non race type vehicles that have had the 'basher' market (and a strong one at that) happy. Surely this has made the company money and probably more money that what was around back when Cecil held the reigns in the late 80's.
If i remember correctly Schumacher even sponsored the 1989 world titles here in Australia and Cecil was even offering out free Topcat kits to anyone that was entered into the worlds to compete. I bet that event cost a bucket load of money!
My point being Cecil's heart and sole went into these early Cat's which no doubt created the foundations for the company that Robin now controls.
Sure tooling costs money but if Cecil and his team could do it out of a little factory back in the day then I can't see how the Schumacher team couldn't do it now.
I dont think it matters how many kits they would sell but i bet they would sell a boat load of parts for the early cars. Hell I sold a second hand Cat on ebay around 12 months ago for $900usd. That to me screams just how many people are willing to spend good money as this was bid up to that price and people were happy to spend the money.

So what is the real cost here? While dollars and cents certainly add up to something but so does a company willing to invest in its roots and prove to the world that the early car was important enough to go to the trouble. That would scream serious cred to me.

More than my 2 cents worth.

[gps3300]

Originally Posted by BORMAC

So what is the real cost here? While dollars and cents certainly add up to something but so does a company willing to invest in its roots and prove to the world that the early car was important enough to go to the trouble. That would scream serious cred to me.

No....it would scream "madness"!!

Schumacher has a small fan base worldwide compared to Tamiya / Kyosho etc, and I'd much rather see them continue to design and develop recreational fun vehicles to ensure a profitable future & cutting edge racing buggies than spend a small fortune for 300 people to buy a vintage CAT re-release. These won't get raced, they'll get shelved - there'd be a peak in spares as collectors restore their cars, and then that's it, no more income. The comment "invest in it's roots" is cr*p - firstly Schmacher's roots were RC car components then 1/12th circuit cars, and secondly, what better way is there to invest in your roots than to continue making top-level competition RC cars? Why we're at it, why don't we campaign for Ford to re-release the Model T, or Peugeot to re-release it's range of 19th century pepper mills?....what would it say about those companies if they did that?

[CNA75]

I'm largely with Bormac here.....

I have to say that I think this is a big shame. I can understand the commercial rationale from a strictly financial perspective, but goodwill (being a key ingredient of a company's value) for a company is not all about margins. It's also about a brand and celebrating one of the most successful eras for Schumacher (i.e. late 80's) would be a strong/the best way (a way tried and tested by many companies before) to celebrate and uphold their iconic racing brand.

I see that someone in this thread previously quoted car manufacturers. Well Ford have done this with the GT40, VW have done it with the Beatle, and BMW have done it with the mini. Morgan continue to make the car that made them famous decades ago. All of these are celebrations of previous icons on which the relevant companies were built and are deliberately to a large extent manufactured for the purpose of maintaining heritage/prestige/brand of the relevant companies.

I wonder if, rather than doing a re-re, Schumacher could utilise those tools which they still have in order to manufacture spares for their old cars. That way, they save on the investment of rebuilding past tools which no longer exist but allow people to source a number of parts for their old cars thus allowing the commercial market to maintain the brand, from a heritage perspective (to some extent, at least!).

I know that they are still able to produce some products for their cars of the late 80's, although I can't say how many....just seems a no-brainer to me (no investment required by Schumacher other than raw materials to make the parts - they'd easily cover their costs with a healthy margin on the rrp for such parts)...

[QuackingPlums]

Ah well. I'm cancelling my Cougar SV order and holding them to ransom until Robin changes his mind...

[Adam F]

I'd be amazed if the tools still exist, or that they still have the moulding machines that suit the old tooling.. These things take up some serious space!

Not to try and start an argument, but the cars mentioned in the above post are all completely new cars, using modern technology and design but with some retro q's from the old car... (Morgan being the exception, but they are not really in the same league)

Brand/heritage is all very nice and yes it does have some value, but I would rather they didn't make a re-re cat and stay in business, rather than make a flawed sentimental decision and go bust....

[Peakey]

I'm bumping this back up out of interest

[Maskellator]

Well, it hasn't happened in the last 5 years, but Hell yeah I would be damn keen on a re-release of any of those. I voted XLS.
Hopefully with the popularity of the Kyosho re-releases and historic rc racing in general I think it would be an inspired decision by the lads in Northampton!

[Suzukitudor]

That would be the one for me.... Any chance of a seperate request!!!

[Peakey]

I think there would be people queing to buy any of the kits, I for one would take the top for of those on an instant.

[OptimaFan]

Originally Posted by Maskellator

Well, it hasn't happened in the last 5 years, but Hell yeah I would be damn keen on a re-release of any of those. I voted XLS.
Hopefully with the popularity of the Kyosho re-releases and historic rc racing in general I think it would be an inspired decision by the lads in Northampton!

Hear, hear!

[Retro RC]

Yes please XLS for me I've got a new built pro cat, nib bosscat and a new built c2 works so that would be nice in the line up👍

[Adam F]

Is there much interest in the older Cats at the moment?

I have two SWB's and two XLS that I wanted to sell, but judging by eBay the market is pretty slow for these at the moment?

[redric11]

I would love a cat swb as thats what i wanted when i raced as a kid.always had kyosho but a std swb cat that floats my boat would be great if they rereleased them.

[Retro RC]

Originally Posted by Adam F

Is there much interest in the older Cats at the moment?

I have two SWB's and two XLS that I wanted to sell, but judging by eBay the market is pretty slow for these at the moment?

There's definately a want out there it's just finding a complete buggie in good condition that's not at a ridiculous price

[OptimaFan]

Originally Posted by Retro RC

There's definately a want out there it's just finding a complete buggie in good condition that's not at a ridiculous price

Yep, quite a few offerings I've seen listed on eBay are pretty expensive, and when you study the pictures, it becomes obvious that some extra investments are needed to get the car completed. Sometimes prices for used parts are asked where a couple of parts would cost about half the price of a mostly complete car, having those parts on, and a lot more. I think I can almost get 2 Optima Mid cars for the price of a vintage Cat.

[cjmurph]

Making a comment to keep the idea alive.

I completely understand why they don't do this, however, I think it would be harder to justify not re-releasing a 2wd simply due to associated re-releasing the rc10.
Vintage racing seems to be reasonably popular in general (it's certainly a heap of fun), and every other car I've seen racing is an rc10. Most of them re-re. Given the easier entry to vintage racing with a re-release I think 2wd is the only way you would have a hope in hell of it making you money, since there are simply more cars/parts around, and therefore more opportunity to race and get involved at a reasonable non vintage price.
I love racing my cougar 2000 against a sea of rc10's, that thing is a rocket ship, but when I crash everyone on the stand cringes and wonders if they'll ever see me again.

Alternatively, I'd suggest this.

If you're not going to make the kits or parts any more, release the drawings. let us make our own. It's been declared by schumacher that it doesn't make financial sense to re-tool or re-release so open up your designs that are more than 20 years old so the public can keep their favourite toys going. Now that would give some serious cred.

I voted bosscat by the way, I loved my bosscat, I'd slap 16 year old me if I saw him selling it... oh well.