Go Back   oOple.com Forums > General > I Made This !

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21-11-2011
Origineelreclamebord's Avatar
Origineelreclamebord Origineelreclamebord is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,571
Default FWD/FF Buggy

I'm really disappointed that we don't see them around: FF Buggies! When I first saw these buggies a few years back (the Ryuz FF for example), I fell in love with them. They are beautiful, quirky and a comeback into the 2WD scene would make things very interesting! It's not likely this will happen anytime soon as many organisations state in their rules that FF buggies are to be run amongst 4WD buggies.

Anyway, in 2009 I already set myself the task to make a basic FF buggy from a Tamiya FF01, using Tamiya DF01 suspension arms:





http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/inde...howtopic=51668
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=90871

The goal was to make a conversion without making custom parts. It went rather well and it was absolutely a blast to drive, but of course with a chassis from the early to mid 90's, no slipper clutch and 70mm shocks I wasn't going to get anywhere on a track without the car falling apart.

For a while I just put the idea of making an FF buggy aside. Recently I picked this project back up, but not with the car you see above. I plan to build a new chassis that is ready for testing on the track. The screenshot below shows what I built up this weekend in Solidworks:



The chassis will be based on a TRF201, as I already have one (so they can share the same bulk of spares). The gearbox and front suspension will be taken from a TRF201, the front uprights and caster blocks will come from the DB01/TRF511. The front suspension arms are to be considered as Tamiya's existing buggy arms would make for a front end that's 260mm wide instead of 250mm (plus, the TRF201 driveshafts are about 5-8mm too short on each side with the existing arms). There are a few things which I need to clear up, which are how I'll mount the top end of the shocks and what steering assembly I'm going to use.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-11-2011
Battle_axe's Avatar
Battle_axe Battle_axe is offline
Thieving scumbag
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bicester
Posts: 1,122
Default

so do you think in low traction this will be a better choice than a mid or rear wheel drive buggy?
__________________
DO NOT BUY/SELL TO THIS USER.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-11-2011
qatmix's Avatar
qatmix qatmix is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1,209
Default

Cant wait to see it take shape
__________________
http://www.thercracer.com/
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-11-2011
Conrad's Avatar
Conrad Conrad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fife, Scotland
Posts: 473
Default

What about mounting the motor behind the diff, inside the body. Obviously the steering system becomes a big issue then but the car would be alot more balanced than having the motor out front, no?
__________________
[swithracing.co.uk] - Swith Racing
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-11-2011
coleman758 coleman758 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In a model shop spending more money!
Posts: 2,148
Default

Id like to see the motor inboard! (Behind the diff) You could mount the servo similar to how the pred X11 is done, With the servo in the middle of the car.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21-11-2011
daz's Avatar
daz daz is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: getting tea bagged off Cols wife
Posts: 1,062
Send a message via AIM to daz
Default

Anyone remember the Kyosho Maxumm FF, I had one in the 80's and it was a horrible car. All it did was wheelspin, couldnt get it to turn when on power and it jumped awful. Im guessing now with all the power we have, it will just be 10 times worse. Not trying to shoot you down or anything, just sharing my experience with them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-11-2011
Welshy40's Avatar
Welshy40 Welshy40 is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: .
Posts: 4,772
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by daz View Post
Anyone remember the Kyosho Maxumm FF, I had one in the 80's and it was a horrible car. All it did was wheelspin, couldnt get it to turn when on power and it jumped awful. Im guessing now with all the power we have, it will just be 10 times worse. Not trying to shoot you down or anything, just sharing my experience with them.
I agree, it was crap and didnt do well anywhere hence why it didnt sell. From a design point of view itll be fun but will be pants if you race it.
__________________
www.kamtec.co.uk
www.fibre-lyte.co.uk
answer-rc.com/uk/en/
Answer UK team driver
Designer of the Lazer ZX/ZXR carbon fibre tub chassis
Designer of the Lazer ZXRS
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21-11-2011
Origineelreclamebord's Avatar
Origineelreclamebord Origineelreclamebord is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,571
Default

Hehe, nice amount of replies with mixed opinions

My choice for the motor at the front is for several reasons:

1. Space: It will be hard to get a construction with the motor over the steering assembly, yet retaining a low CoG and a tough steering set.
2. Weight distribution: FWDs have more problems getting traction than RWDs, and considering their weight balance from front to back I guess a motor in front of the diff will work best. Plus, if the weight balance does need to be further back, it's easy to add weight inside the chassis. However, mounting them in front of the chassis is way less effective and harder to fit.

I also considered using the DEX210's parts as a base, but as I am using a TRF201 right now it's only logical to use that as a base for this - I'm on a budget after all. Plus, making the Mid motor and Rear motor options possible on an FWD chassis is a bit more complicated than an RWD chassis. I just want a chassis with some degree of thought put into it that I can use to develop a better chassis - at least, that's the plan
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 21-11-2011
terry.sc's Avatar
terry.sc terry.sc is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Stockport
Posts: 1,426
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
What about mounting the motor behind the diff, inside the body. Obviously the steering system becomes a big issue then but the car would be alot more balanced than having the motor out front, no?
Because FF buggies don't work well with inboard motors.

The Maxxum had the motor behind the steering linkage, it could never put the power down. The successful Japanese FF buggies all had the motor hanging out in front, and on loose dirt tracks they they were as fast as any rwd buggy.

A few examples:
Grahoos Poprod
Old Ryuz style FFs and Bloodclods Ryuz style build and on Oople
Bloodclods FF03B
A few old FF buggies in this thread
__________________
Visit my showroom
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 21-11-2011
Origineelreclamebord's Avatar
Origineelreclamebord Origineelreclamebord is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,571
Default

+1 on Grahoo's buggy, I love the design of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obs-m...ure=plpp_video

Here's a video with Grahoo's original Poprod from 1988 driving in a competition (at 1:10 interview with the driver, start of race around the 2:30 mark). Notice that it's easily as quick as the RWD buggies driving around and drove around on the first place for a while before making a mistake. I know the Wild one, Falcon and Fox are not like the RC10 would've been as a competitor, but it shows their potential on video.

The potential that the Poprod shows is reflected in today's buggy regulations. Many organisations state that FWD buggies are to be driven with 4WD buggies. I recall reading this happened when some drivers started using FWD buggies for slippery tracks and RWD buggies for tracks where the RWDs could put the power down more easily.

The regulations meant the instant end for FWD buggies in competition. After all they were put into use for their performance, not for their quirky construction.

Grahoo rebuilt his Poprod a few years ago (Link), but with a TA03 transmission and a few modern parts I believe. This and Bloodclod's FF buggy build were of great inspiration to try and build my own FF Buggy
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-11-2011
Bugle's Avatar
Bugle Bugle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 118
Default

Cool project, always wanted to make a Ryuz replica but not being able to race it in 2WD class is a bummer
With the speeds cars go these days compared to when they got banned I can't see a FWD being faster than a RWD.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
oOple.com