Schumacher K153 GT12 Race set

[draperst]

Hi Everyone,

I used to race Mardave Mini Stox in the late 80's/Early 90's, the ones with the big red bumpers and three speed manual speed controllers. Now my son is of a similar age to me when I started, I am considering us both joining a local supastox club. I see that things have moved on considerably since then and have a quick question. The Schumacher K153 package looks like good value and a simple way to start racing again (bear in mind I will buy two kits) but I see that the chassis supplied in the race set is the K151 @ 59.99 vs the BRCA limit of 99 for the K154/K157.

Do you think there are some immediate problems in going the K153 package route? Would I soon be looking to change servos, receivers, chassis etc etc?

Looking forward to getting involved again, and thanks for the advice!

Cheers

[shinytopman]

Personaly i would get an SSGT S1kit with a diff and get your own electrics to go with it.

The K153 package you refer to use's the older supastox chassis, so its limited in its future as it has already been superceded by the SSGT.
That's not to say it is a bad chassis its not ! just long in the tooth.

The S1 kit gives you a diff as opposed to the carbon kit that doesn't, so you will be able to race from build.

Though be warned there are a few upgrades to get it competative but your a long way from leading the A finals.

The kit is great, nigh on indistructable, and you will love the GT12 series, simple and friendly (or at least till your on the rostrum racing...:woot:).

There is a great thread on here that well worth a read http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165755

Hope this helps in someway,

Shiny.

[shinytopman]

As far as electrics are concerned go and have a chat to your local model shop they may be able to do you a good deal on all the things you will need or you can pick up some good electrics from hobbyking.
The turnigy trackstar Gen2 1cell speedo is great for the money and designed to use in 12th racing approx £35, you can get the 13.5t trackstar motor for £21, 1 cell batteries Turnigy A-spec 6000mah from £17 (ultimates are better at £19) you will need at least 2 lipos each, Charger turnigy B6 pro £15 you will need 2, power supply for your chargers hobbyking 350W 25Amp £30.

Then all you need is a your radio gear of choice weither it be Stick or steering wheel. These can be bought quite cheap, dont buy basic though, make sure it has end point adjustment and expo adjustment.

And no im not on comision from hobbyking just a good place to get reasonable electrics to get you going to the point where you can race to a good competative standard at club level.

When buying from Hobbyking make sure that you are buying from preferably the UK warehouse, if not the european warehouse (postage is higher from euro warehouse but you wont get import duty) NEVER USE THERE INTERNATIONAL WAREHOUSE!!!!!

The only thing i would change in the above list to improve things would be the motor, i'd swap it for a thunder power 13.5t motor, but with a £60 price tag which is the cheapest of the good motors. But if your starting out you don't want lots of speed, you want to learn to be consistent.
Then the speed will come!

[draperst]

Thanks very much, great information and advice. Much appreciated!

[SlowOne]

The K153 kit isn't that bad a deal. It provides all the ancillary kit you need (charger, charging sack, radio, etc.) and gives you a great start in GT12. You will need both cars to have differentials fitted as the solid axle will make driving the car frustrating.

It's worth going to your local model shop, or finding one on line you can call (AMC - Action Model Centre - for example) to try and do a deal on a Superstox GT12 S1 car (it comes with the diff), radio, servo, body, charger, charging sack, etc. You can then get the electrics mail order from Hobbyking (see STM's post above) as those prices you won't find in a shop. Be aware that the servo needs to be a Core one as the usual Futaba, etc. stuff doesn't fit.

More of your money will go on tools, tyres and bodies, a few pinions and other pit-related stuff to get set up. Perhaps you could price up a complete car in a few different ways and then come back here with your list. We can let you know about the stuff you have selected and provide more help if needed.

Best of luck - as STM says this is one of the best classes of RC racing ever invented! HTH :)

[shinytopman]

Perhaps you could price up a complete car in a few different ways and then come back here with your list. We can let you know about the stuff you have selected and provide more help if needed.

Great idea Slowone...:thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

Have a chat with the guys at mb models

[draperst]

Thanks for your advice, I decided to concentrate on my son first. I'll start later in the year.

I used your recommendations, and got all but the recommended charger as it was out of stock (I ordered the one supplied in the K153 kit) and the Transmitter and receiver. Any recommendations for these? Alternatively my son has a Maverick Strada buggy and I am thinking about taking the radio gear from that on a temporary basis. My son would prefer the wheel type, and as I understand it, it needs end point and expo adjustment.

[mark christopher]

Thanks for your advice, I decided to concentrate on my son first. I'll start later in the year.

I used your recommendations, and got all but the recommended charger as it was out of stock (I ordered the one supplied in the K153 kit) and the Transmitter and receiver. Any recommendations for these? Alternatively my son has a Maverick Strada buggy and I am thinking about taking the radio gear from that on a temporary basis. My son would prefer the wheel type, and as I understand it, it needs end point and expo adjustment.

don't rely on expo, set the car up round it, to me it makes the car feel false and lazy

[shinytopman]

Alternatively my son has a Maverick Strada buggy and I am thinking about taking the radio gear from that on a temporary basis.

Im not familiar with the radio that comes with your sons maverick.

I dont suppose it has model memory feature, so it can be bound to more than one car?

If it has then potentially you could get a compatible receiver and use that in the gt12 whilst maintaining the maverick as a running model to. But as i say im not familiar with the radio gear.

[draperst]

Thanks again, I have started to order some bits now, and they have started to arrive.

#K154 - Schumacher SupaStox GT 1/12th GT12 Circuit Car (S1/Diff)
#G906 - SupaStox GT12 Body - Type L G906 1
Core RC - 4012 - Servo 4Kg .12 Sec CR493
TrackStar D-Spec TS4G 2.4GHz 4-Channel Radio System
Turnigy B6 PRO 50W 6A Balance Charger (Red)
HobbyKing 350w 25A Power Supply
TrackStar GenII One Cell 120A 1/12th Scale Sensored Brushless ESC
Turnigy TrackStar 13.5T Sensored Brushless Motor 3040KV
2x Turnigy nano-tech A-SPEC 6000mah 1S 65~130C Hardcase Lipo Pack
Lipo Bag
30g Weight
Lexan Scissors

I have realised that I also need a sensor cable, any suggestions for length?

Thanks!

[mark christopher]

Most good Speedos and motors inclue a sensor cable, personally I would have gone for the ascari or type f body

[draperst]

Thanks. Kit arrived today so I can measure up for a sensor cable now. As my son is 12 and likes Lamboghinis I'm sure he will be happy.

[SlowOne]

Couple of things I'd add...

Large bucket of patience including the "think twice, do once" handle
The small packet of common sense usually missing from most model shop shelves

And when in doubt, RTFM - Read the Flipping Manual!! (Or, come back here and let us help you out!) HTH :)

[draperst]

Well this is interesting started the build today, anyone else experienced missing or incorrect parts?

So far,

Bottom "cup" for a front spring is missing
I have three front wheels and one rear (only one wheel has a drive dog)
One axle spacer missing

The hobby shop is on the case, although they do not know about the wheel problem yet as I have just discovered it. Do you think I should contact Schumacher directly aswell? Not sure I will be buying another one at this rate!

On another note, my speed controller Trackstar Gen II has what looks like capacitors in the box (16v) , which are not shown in the instructions. Anyone else have one and know if I need to use them? It is a dedicated one cell ESC, if I need to use them do I solder them to the +VE -VE terminals along with the lipo wires? Not sure where they will go otherwise. First race next Friday at Sidcup, so I am hoping I can get all these things resolved asap...

Thanks!

[Wig]

Sounds like you got a kit put together on a Friday afternoon.
Get on to Schumacher direct. They will sort it out without any fuss.

Yes the capacitors need soldering to the + and - on the esc.

[Xracer]

I had similar issues with my SSGT kit but a quick email to Schumacher's and they soon sorted it out.

One other problem that you may encounter is out of true tyres, this will not be a problem if you are skimming them down to a more handling friendly size but if you are not then be aware that handling may be affected depending on how out of true they are, my fronts were 1mm eccentric, the rears were just slightly out!

They did send me a replacement front set, they were 0.5mm out but as I was going to true them down to a starting size of 46mm for the rears and 44.5mm for the fronts this became academic!

Some drivers start off even smaller and with less front to rear stagger, by the way!

[draperst]

Thanks. Will need to learn more about truing tyres.

Quick question. Any tips on soldering motor and esc wires. I've done it but it looks a bit messy, and took a lot of effort before I could get a solid connection.

Body shell painted. Pick to follow.

Thanks for all you help so far!

[draperst]

My son is a big fan of Massa, Williams and F1, so asked for a Martini Livery

[shinytopman]

Looking good........:thumbsup:

Did you make it to Sidcup on Fri?

If you live in the SE as i pressume you do seeing as your racing at sidcup. Have you thought about racing at Maritime Racing at Chatham Dockyard (Racing Thur Eve . Practice starts from 5-5.30 ish)?

Great club, Great track!

[draperst]

Hi - Going to Sidcup tomorrow, first time. My son is really looking forward to it.

Had another disaster, MB Models to the rescue though. Guess who used the wrong paint?

Me.

I bought Tamiya for plastics rather than polycarbonate... Quick drive around the living room, paint flaking off everywhere!

Ordered a new shell, next day delivery and one late night later and with the new paint an identical shell!

Waiting on a programming card for the Trackstar ESC, but I guess they will let him run it as is until it arrives and I can programme to blinky mode (still not sure what that actually means).

I've reduced the EPA on the throttle to 80pct so hoping that Joseph (my son) will learn to drive properly first, rather than smashing it to bits on day one :)

I hear you about Maritime, it is not far from me, but a Thursday is tricky as it starts quite early and I will not be home from work, and given it is a school night probably not a good idea...ear bashing from the missus (wait till she sees the credit card bill!)

I definitely have the bug, so looking forward to buying and racing a car of my own, for now I am team mechanic and taxi service.

Thanks for all your help, lets see what happens tomorrow.

[shinytopman]

Maritime opens its doors at 5-5.30 for practice. racing starts about 7ish.
Its a large perminant track that gets changed every 6 weeks as not to get staile, theres plenty of pit area with benches and mains.

The members are all friendly and helpfull, infact your'll meet a few at sidcup.

If it interfears with school, its worth the trip during school hols

PS Enjoy your racing tommorow....im sure you will.

[SlowOne]

Draper... 'Blinky' mode means that the speedo does not add any additional timing to the motor when you open the throttle. Check what mode the speedo comes in as t may be the case that the car will be silly fast and/or make the throttle like a bit of a switch.

If the throttle feel is bad, switch-like, it is better to drop down two or three teeth on the pinion than cut off the top of the throttle curve. Blag a smaller pinion from someone if Junior is struggling with the car and put the throttle back to 100%. Once you have it programmed correctly all will be well and the 80% idea will work just fine.

Ask if someone has a card at Sidcup and can change the programme for you.

First run at first club night - here's a few tips:
Check everything twice before every run. After the run check every screw and give the car a good eyeballing to make sure nothing has gone awry.
If there is not much time between heats, put the additive on to the tyres while they are off the car. Start with 20 minutes additive 'on' time at each end. 100% width on the rears, 50% width (from the inside of the tyre) on the front. Wipe it off with a towel and make sure the tyres are as dry as possible before the car goes on the track.
If the shell gets bent try pushing it around so it doesn't foul the tyres, and if necessary just lop lumps off it and get a new one later.
If grip is low early doors, don't change the car. Let the track come to the car. If after round 2 there is clearly something to change, do one thing at a time and not many things at once.
Do not shout at Junior at any time, and do not criticise the driving - nothing more guaranteed to put him off. I've seen it done!! Or, at least, don't say anything about the driving until you've tried it. When that happens, don't get the hump if Junior beats you!! :D
Ask anyone and everyone for advice, they'll give it. Look at as many other cars as you can and see what their set-up is and how they have built the car. Pinch ideas with pride!

If any of that teaches you to suck eggs, apologies. I hope you both have a great time and please come back here for more advice and tips. Good luck! :thumbsup:

[draperst]

Hi Slowone, Brilliant advice, and just now back from a fantastic night at Sidcup.

I can not speak more highly of the supportive and helpful attitude there, I wish "real life" was the same, just amazing.

Draper Jr had a great night, and can not wait to go back.

We had our ups and downs, and overcome all the initial problems with the support of some amazing people.

Watching my 12 year old interact with one of the nicest 74 year old was just fantastic, 1/12 is a great leveler and the kindness and consideration shown to their newest and youngest member was heart warming. The Grandfather, Father and Son that came straight over to help set up the car was valuable and so welcoming.

So what did we learn.

These things are indeed fast, had to dial the throttle back to ensure Jr maintained confidence and avoided incidents. We found that the RC gear had a gyro, which explained the "interference" and turned that off.

Dad's soldering needs to get up to scratch, a high wattage iron would be the next purchase!

We learned that body shells can look like a work of art, until track day!

We now understand "droop", "Tweak" and MARSHALL!

But most of all I learned that 1/12 has not changed since my ministox days...everyone is happy to help, provide advice, offer assistance and a few spares.

What a great night, Draper Jr now tucked up in bed with a copy of his lap times that Keith kindly provided (he also would't charge us as it was our first time).

So now every other Friday is indeed "boys" night for JR and I, and long may it continue.

Thanks to all of you for getting us started, and Sidcup for getting us to the end of the night. With grateful thanks, Stuart.

[SlowOne]

You got to the right place and you found people to give more help - guys, our work here is done!! :thumbsup:

Keep in touch so we can follow your story, like Stu's, and if we can help any more you know where to find us. Say "well done" to Junior - boy's a star! :)

[shinytopman]

Hi Draper,

So pleased you and Jrn had a ball.

Lads night out most deffinatly, thats how i got back into racing my son showed an interest so off we went (he races TC 10.5t boosted rocket ships).

This season maritime started GT12 watch a few and was hooked, had to try it, never looked back since.

Look forward to hearing your next race reports.

P.S. it wont be long till you get infected........;):thumbsup::thumbsup:

BTW did you get your speedo set to blinky?

[draperst]

Not set to blinky yet, waiting for the tuning box to arrive for the esc.

Club was great and didn't mind, which was kind.

Yes, won't be long...weighing up the pros and cons of having the same car myself versus something else like the Zen, but will certainly have the same esc, motor etc as they seem fine at novice level.

Urgent need for new tires, and have ordered them today 50 Front and 40 Back on the suggestion of a club member, superglue was omitted from my shopping list what an error! And a higher wattage soldering iron is on its way, should avoid further problems.

Jr has now applied for his BRCA license, and it would appear mine from 1990 has expired so will need one soon too I hope:)

Maritime is appealing as it is so close to where I live and waiting two weeks for the next race is quite hard!

After the initial expense, it is a cheap night out. Entrance fee, couple of bags of crisps and a few drinks... less than a tenner. Missus and daughter spent more watching a film!

Quick question.

I bought the lipo strap upgrade as I reckon that it is more cost effective than buying battery tape, and whilst it works perfectly, thumbscrews to retain it would be better (maybe Schumacher should do this as standard?), anyone done this? I think they are M3 size, would be interested to know where they got them from.

In general, I think the best advice for a novice is to slow everything down, the throttle is limited to 80pct on my sons car now with the steering expo at -30pct. This dramatically changed his ability to get round after the first qualy, particularly keeping it in a straight line on the main straight of the circuit.

Drive first, speed will follow.

Cheers
Stuart

[shinytopman]

Hi Stuart,

That speedo is used by quite a few people if you look on the facebook pages and highly praised, when they come up for sale they dissapear like hot cakes...bang per buck i dont think they can be beaten.
Would love to see/hear a national level driver use one and there opinions on them.

this is another way you can adjust your speedo but will need it connected thro a pc/laptop....and the prog from hobbyking.....http://www.rccarshop.co.uk/index.php/sk-600013-02-sky-rc-skylink.html.
Thats if your having trouble getting the setup box.

Once the speedo is set to blinky it will calm it down a lot cos it removes the timing and boost, so you may have to re adjust his handset to suite.

The battery strap is a great idea, what i did with mine was buy some of these...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-BLACK-Plastic-Nylon-M3-x-12mm-Thumbscrews-Knurled-Slotted-Thumb-Screw-/300949851444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4612024d34 shortened the thread a little job done, remember tho they are nylon so wont take being cranked down but being nylon they wont put weight up high....

You hit the nail on the head with your statement drive practice and get consistent, track time is everything, then speed will natrually follow.

As far as a car for yourself its swings and roundabouts, Schumacher versus Zen. My gut feeling would be buy a second hand SSGT with the updates theres lots around cheap if you look on the forums/facebook as well as ebay.
I say this for two reasons, firstly is spares it means you only need to carry one set of spares for both cars but to be fair the SSGT is fairly unbreakable. the other is it is undoutably more complicated than a Zen but it is a good training ground to get to understanding how to setup a car, (get a book and note down what changes you make and the affect they have on the car. Make a good ref libuary) and this you can carry onto a Zen or other chassis of choice.

But remember if you do follow the route i mentioned above but desided to upgrade to the zen the S/Hand SSGT could be used as spares for jnrs car so its not money going to waste in that respect.

The Zen in my opinion is a great car (ive just upgraded to one myself) but jumping into a Zen i feel you would miss out on a lot of learning curves as mentioned being a new to GT12. As you can litrually take it out of the box bolt the wheels to it fit your electrics and go faster!

Not to say there arn't tweeks you can do to the Zen because there are to tune it to the track you race.

Hope this all makes sence and not just the ramblings of a mad man, and helps in someway. :thumbsup:

Shiny.

[draperst]

All makes sense, and gratefully received!

Cheers!

[stucartwright]

Just sent you a private massage Stuart

[Xracer]

Hudy do a set of four M3 black alloy thumb nuts for their car setup equipment part no. 108060, you can remove the existing countersunk screws and fit longer ones if you need to, both my SSGT and RSGT have them fitted.

81538

[mark christopher]

Drapster if you are on Facebook join the gt12 circuit UK and the Schumacher supastox GT groups. Loads of info, sales and top team drivers to help in there.

[draperst]

Just bought a second hand very well specced SSGT...

[draperst]

Drapster if you are on Facebook join the gt12 circuit UK and the Schumacher supastox GT groups. Loads of info, sales and top team drivers to help in there.

Thanks Mark, I'm a member of the facebook group, but not the Schumacher specific one I'll check it out.

[draperst]

Well, second race night and it went fairly well. Jnr has tamed the car somewhat and had some good pace throughout. Trim was a bit off, and there was little time to fix it but as the night went on we think it was just right. Looking at a solid third or maybe second place in the B final, when one of the motor leads came off after a bit of a shunt, but that's racing (and poor soldering!). Jnr not too despondent, and had a good night overall. Now fired up for the next round!

What was interesting was the EPA for the throttle is adjusted down to 100pct rather than full fat 120pct, and proves speed on the straights is much less important compared to getting the car round cleanly and being tidy in the in sections.

Lots more advice and a very friendly crowd, silver solder ordered and some new cable, plus an Ascari shell to order and painted in a bright colour as the lambo one is indeed not the greatest shell to run. As per the advice from Mark, I can see now that the shell is rather big and unwieldy in comparison.

No chunking of the tyres which was nice, we prepared them properly this time with glue and putting an edge on them.

May run my new car next time, but need to get into a very disciplined approach to fit in mechanic duties for two cars and marshalling!

I did have a cheeky couple of laps "checking" Jnr's car, its remarkable how direct they are, very different from my Mardave Mini Supastox days!

All good overall!

Cheers

[mark christopher]

Pleased your happy and junior is enjoying it.

[Xracer]

Yes it is great when your kids take to a hobby that develops all sorts of skills, social, technical and mechanical apart from the competitive spirit and hopefully fair play that a restricted racing class engenders.

You say silver solder, are you sure about that one?

Silver solder is a very high temperature solder and should not be needed for this particular hobby, a good soldering iron and some practice is all that is needed for sound joints without overheating everything!

[draperst]

Well, another night at Sidcup.

Jr had fun, new shell (Type A) far less issues than the Lambo style shell as per advice.

I ran my car for the first time and to say it's hectic dealing with two cars at a time is an understatement.

Jr's seems to be set up in a way he likes and I have done practically the same. However, mine understeers a great deal, will have to work on that!

Interesting problem which is most likely a case of buy cheap, buy twice. Our radio gear seems to interfere with each others intermittently, very strange so open to suggestions for replacement. I think I prefer sticks, and he likes a wheel.

Bit of a disaster before the final. Let Jr get his car ready, glance to the left and see smoke pouring from the car. Wrong polarity on the LiPo, dead ESC...

Did a quick change of transponder and sent Jr off in my car for the final. He's upset but I did not get angry with him. Lesson learned for us both. Dad will supervise more closely, and shorten one of the wires to ensure its impossible to get it the wrong way round.

New ESC now ordered, and off to bed.

Cheers
Stuart

[Wig]

Its a shame about his ESC but it happens to the best of us.
You could try cutting your wires to length so it can only be connected the correct way.
HTH

Wig

[Xracer]

Ah the stress of parenthood, great when you can share your hobbies and interest though and he will soon learn how to prepare his car hopefully, then you can get down to enjoying your racing too and long may his interest last!

[shinytopman]

Hi Draper,
Hope you had a good eve, disaster excluded shame about the esc but it happens even the most seasoned racers do it.

2 suggestions,

1) as wig said cut your power leads to the lipo to only reach the terminal they connect to. only prob with this is if you have lipos where the connector hole goes right thro cos you can flip the lipo over and the terminals are then reversed.
If you get this type then put some tape across the lipo on one side so you can only plug into one side.

2) what i do is get some red paint and as soon as i get a new lipo i paint the whole pos corner of the lipo red. and red wire on the esc for the pos only.

As for radios you really do get what you pay for with radio gear, so buy the best you can afford really.
Core RC are very popular, not the best but if you can find a futaba 3GR, 3VC, or even better 3VCS then you should be ok. Sanwa gemini is supposed to be good for the money to.

HTH's,
Shiny

[draperst]

Thanks all, Gemini X ordered for me. And going to try two power caps on Jr's car as still glitchy. Waiting for the replacement ESC to arrive and then a general tidy up of things.

Understand why my car under steered now, tyres too hard at the front and too soft on the rear.

[SlowOne]

Also check how much rear wing you are carrying. Cut to the mould lines the Kamtec rear wings are more like a parachute than an umbrella. You can cut them down by 10mm from the cut line and the car still handles OK, but will be a bit quicker on long straights. ;)

[draperst]

Small update, as is now customary every other week!

Sidcup moved to a new venue, things were a little tighter on the track and it was good that they introduced an additional "C" heat where naturally my son and I were placed.

First outing for me in the Zen, and my word its "sharp", good advice from Jay reducing the steering helped, but I took it too far and lost all steering in the final due to the screw coming loose from the servo saver, so that was me out! Shame, I took pole and was ready for some fun with Draper Jr!

Draper Jr in the SSGT took second on the grid and showed some excellent improvement, finishing first with one rather quick lap recorded, so consistency now is key.

So the old adage to finish first, you must first finish, get the car reliable and things do improve (check out our earlier drama's further up the thread).

Buying less stuff now, the initial expense is tapering off which is pleasing.

Sold my SSGT to my brother, so next time three Drapers will be going head to head. Lets see what happens!

All the best!
Stuart

[shinytopman]

Thats great to hear Stuart

Expence yes its a bit of a learning curve, but once you get settled it does come down to just race fee's, tyre and the occasional whoopseee momment we all have.

Great to hear Jay is pointing you in the right directions, has he not pointed you towards Maritime yet?
Do you know there are reginals and nationals at maritime very soon at the weekends, if your interested?.......or even worth a visit to spectate, chat pick a few brains get tips.

Im sure you will see some faces from Sidcup at maritime you will recognise.

Keep up the race reports, glad to hear you and Jnr are going great guns

Shiny

[draperst]

Hi STP,

Still pondering Martime, nice and close to where I live. do they run heats for novices?

I was down the dockyard and had a look to find it, went to the martime museum to ask where it was and no one knew.

It's not to clear on the website where it is, can you help?

Thinking school half term in October, Jr and I will be much improved by then I hope!!

Cheers
Stuart

[draperst]

Certainly will take at look at the weekends as you mentioned, I'll check the website for dates.