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View Full Version : help with step 2A lol


Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 02:21 PM
not got very far!!!

I'm trying to do step 2a and the white plastic rings that push onto the gear don't want to fit in the orientation shown in the diagram? It will fit with stepped edge bit on the inside?

Do I need to dremel out the white ring a bit, just try and force it or what?

There is also a molding tab on the edge of the white plastic rings. Do they need removing?

thanks! bit scared of forcing something and breaking it!

shark
11-01-2009, 02:27 PM
Give it a right good squeeze mate and they click into place. Put it on the same way as the instructions state .They are a tight fit .

Gnarly Old Dog
11-01-2009, 02:27 PM
The instructions are correct but they are a very tight fit - once fitted they 'click' loudly into place.
Some are tighter than others so try swapping different flanges onto different pulleys.

I managed with a steady hand and very careful pressure with some long nose pliers.
Any flashing should be gently trimmed but you don't need to dremel.

When fitted - take care oof the pulley orientation when you fit them onto the layshafts. There is a shoulder on one side that creates an offset. Fit it the wrong way round and the pulley will bind slightly with the transmission housings and the whole thing is tight to turn over. Get it right and it's smooth - just take care (you'll get what I mean when you get to it)

Cheers

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 02:32 PM
thanks guys. few swipes with a needle file sorted it out. Was just that bit too tight.

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 04:30 PM
Next issue... A load of the m3 washers they've sent me are badly manufactured and have a squared of edge on one side rather than being fully circular. Do you reckon its safe to use them?

So annoying when you are all sat down to build something, the shops are shut and you have duff parts.

Chrislong
11-01-2009, 04:36 PM
I had one badly made M3 washer, it had a flat on the circumference - I still used it. If you are unsure of anything, still build it but then replace the washer when you get replacements.

As for the white rings on gears, they are very tight. Hold them under hot water from the tap to soften them, then put them in position - if too tight to get the final click, turn over and press down on a hard work surface. This is what I did when my thumb started bleeding. Ive since built another car doing this, and no injuries on the second kit :lol:

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Yeah I've decided to plough on and try to put the washers in easily accessible places. Do you know if there a replacement screw + washer kit available?

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 06:41 PM
Ok next problem lol.

In Step 11a there is this big stack of washers, ball bearing & disk springs. Is one of the washers really a different size? It says small washer & large washer and they honestly look identical!!! Even in their diagram... What will happen if they are wrong?


Also, it says apply silicone in Step 13, but thoughtfully they didn't include any. Presumably it's silicone diff oil I need, but what grade?

Northy
11-01-2009, 06:49 PM
Bit late now but I put the white plastic rings in some boiling water for a few seconds.

G

Gnarly Old Dog
11-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Do you know if there a replacement screw + washer kit available?

Time for another shameless plug:thumbsup:

pm Northy on this forum or check out www.nortechracing.co.uk for a good selection of fasteners etc.
He's got a cool range of different coloured countersunk washers if purple isn't your fave colour and his whitey shock O-rings are frictionless.

You may wish to stock up on the M3 cap head screws that hold the wishbone blocks into the transmission housings as these can bend in a heavy impact.

Northy
11-01-2009, 07:07 PM
Ok next problem lol.

In Step 11a there is this big stack of washers, ball bearing & disk springs. Is one of the washers really a different size? It says small washer & large washer and they honestly look identical!!! Even in their diagram... What will happen if they are wrong?


Also, it says apply silicone in Step 13, but thoughtfully they didn't include any. Presumably it's silicone diff oil I need, but what grade?


Yes they are slightly different and it does matter.

There should be some clear silicone grease in the kit in a little plastic bag? You need grease not oil.

G

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 07:21 PM
Ok so when it says large do they mean diameter?

Found the grease, it was around the balls.

Anyway got 1 diff assembled and its quite stiff. Have I overtightened it? When I compare the diff on my old optima pro its very light.

Also if I've got the big/little the wrong way round any idea what the symptom would be?

Thanks guys, and Northy do you do a complete screw kit?

JackWood
11-01-2009, 09:20 PM
I couldn't see ANY differnece on those washers either. I looked at them for a good 10 minutes and measured them with a caliper and couldn't tell the difference.

And yes, these plate type diffs are quite stiff compared to a geared diff. I slackened mine off a bit more than the manual said. Don't forget to back them off!! I missed that stage first time round, and they were bloody tight.

Northy
11-01-2009, 09:25 PM
Ok so when it says large do they mean diameter?

Found the grease, it was around the balls.

Anyway got 1 diff assembled and its quite stiff. Have I overtightened it? When I compare the diff on my old optima pro its very light.

Also if I've got the big/little the wrong way round any idea what the symptom would be?

Thanks guys, and Northy do you do a complete screw kit?

Yes, the diameter is slightly different, only slightly though. The outer one should be smaller so that it doesn't rub on the inside of the diff half when the diff is rotating.

Don't do a complete screw kit yet, but if I can help let me know.

G

Cassp0nk
11-01-2009, 10:16 PM
Thanks again guys. This feedback is invaluable. Hopefully your help means it won't be a repeat of when I built my optima pro aged 11 and had to take it into the shop to be remediated ;)

Think I got 1 diff definitely right, although its hard to even see the bevelled edge on the ball race. Other one feels the same, so not going to let it prey on my mind too much.

Digital calliper on the shopping list now though, not to mention some of those spangly pliers for doing C rings. If I get them at least I can open the diffs again and double check. Northy do you sell them mate?

Northy
11-01-2009, 10:29 PM
We are here to help :D

No, sorry, I need a pair myself :blush:

G

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 12:06 AM
Next question. Just done step 26 which is part of the steering linkage, and instructions say the bar should have an 8mm gap between the bar with the ball ends plastic fittings. I've done that but when I clip it all together, the purple steering are thingies are towing in towards each other rather than parallel when looking down on them. Is 8mm the right choice or should I be trying to get them straight. They are straight in the instructions diagram... I reckon it would need another 3mm or so...

The only thing with going with the stated 8mm is that it would make the inner wheel turn a slightly tighter circle in a corner which is desireable right? Although unloaded wheel in a corner a bit irrelevant.

Anyway appreciate if anyone knows the correct answer?

BlackedOutMugen
12-01-2009, 05:03 AM
8MM from the inside of the rod ends, or 8MM of rod end thats showing. I did mine with 8MM, and the bell crank is all straight. So im guessing you did that wrong. I think you just miss measured the links, IDK how else you would be that off.

Maybe a pic? Or someone else might know

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 05:58 AM
8MM from the inside of the rod ends, or 8MM of rod end thats showing. I did mine with 8MM, and the bell crank is all straight. So im guessing you did that wrong. I think you just miss measured the links, IDK how else you would be that off.

Maybe a pic? Or someone else might know

8mm from the inside of the rod ends. is that what you did? I tripple measured... with 8mm as i measured the bell cranks are pinched towards each other at the link. If yours is straight I can just do whats necessary to straighten mine.

Chrislong
12-01-2009, 08:25 AM
Cass is right, at 8mm the bellcranks point inwards. I ran mine like this and it was very "safe" with understeer, but not fast. I lengthened the turnbuckle until the bellcranks are parallel and the car turns in sharpy - is still safe but can be driven hard as it will turn when asked.

Chrislong
12-01-2009, 08:28 AM
Those washers which are different, its the thickness which is different from what I can tell.

telboy
12-01-2009, 10:18 AM
Chris, I opted not to go down the 'bleeding thumbs' route with the ring on the pulleys :lol:. After trying to put one together I realised that they were a bit on the sharp side!:p


I just went down the pliers route.
I never had any success with the Hot water either....kept burning my hands!!:eh?:

:p

Just oredered loads of bits for mine now, so should get it something like.

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the confirmation Chris. It's these details you don't get in the manual!

Whats the best way if cleaning sharp edges of plastic? Swipe with some emery paper? Sand paper is too course right?

Northy
12-01-2009, 12:29 PM
Those washers which are different, its the thickness which is different from what I can tell.

No Chris, it's the diameter ;)

G

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 12:46 PM
No Chris, it's the diameter ;)

G

Maybe the kit has changed as I can't imagine parts being manufactured to micron tolerances that are invisible to the human eye and his calliper?!?!? The bevel on the bearing thing isn't too visible either lol, still not 100% sure I could see that. Maybe I need a magnifying glass...

Oh well, will order a diff rebuild kit at some point and take a further look.

Northy
12-01-2009, 01:01 PM
if you think about it though the outer one has to be smaller, otherwise as the diff turns it turns in the opposite direction to the diff half it is sat in and would rub on the inside? :cry:

What page is building the diffs on?

G

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 01:24 PM
if you think about it though the outer one has to be smaller, otherwise as the diff turns it turns in the opposite direction to the diff half it is sat in and would rub on the inside? :cry:

What page is building the diffs on?

G

Page 7. Step 11 a.

I think the bit we are discussing just preloads the diff though as the main mechanism is the plastic ring with the ball bearings in it.

Northy
12-01-2009, 01:43 PM
Yeh, but look at the picture in 11 B, the cut through of the diff.

The large washer that is next to the disc springs turns the same way as the diff half when the diff is turning (it has to - it can't do anything else), but the smaller washer has to turn in the opposite direction to stop the bolt coming slack.

Either the outer washer must be smaller or the diff half wider where the outside washer sits in the diff otherwise it would bind and the diff would loosen.

G

MattW
12-01-2009, 06:16 PM
the diameter is different on the thrust washers - 0.2mm difference. 8mm and 7.8mm

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 07:13 PM
So what do you think the upshot is of getting them the wrong way round? 50:50 chance on one of my diffs I think ;)

BlackedOutMugen
12-01-2009, 07:16 PM
Cass is right, at 8mm the bellcranks point inwards. I ran mine like this and it was very "safe" with understeer, but not fast. I lengthened the turnbuckle until the bellcranks are parallel and the car turns in sharpy - is still safe but can be driven hard as it will turn when asked.

Really? Mine are straight! Maybe a little pointing in, but not 3mm. And mine are at 8mm, 8.04 if I remeber right:p

Chris, I opted not to go down the 'bleeding thumbs' route with the ring on the pulleys :lol:. After trying to put one together I realised that they were a bit on the sharp side!:p


I just went down the pliers route.
I never had any success with the Hot water either....kept burning my hands!!:eh?:

:p

Just oredered loads of bits for mine now, so should get it something like.

Hahahahaha, yeah I thought about water, but used a heat gun. Worked pretty nicely:D That or pliers. Some of them were super tight

Thanks for the confirmation Chris. It's these details you don't get in the manual!

Whats the best way if cleaning sharp edges of plastic? Swipe with some emery paper? Sand paper is too course right?

I used a X-acto and got some of the edge off. Sand paper, what ever cleans the edge up a bit

jono83
12-01-2009, 09:44 PM
The instructions are correct but they are a very tight fit - once fitted they 'click' loudly into place.
Some are tighter than others so try swapping different flanges onto different pulleys.

I managed with a steady hand and very careful pressure with some long nose pliers.
Any flashing should be gently trimmed but you don't need to dremel.

When fitted - take care oof the pulley orientation when you fit them onto the layshafts. There is a shoulder on one side that creates an offset. Fit it the wrong way round and the pulley will bind slightly with the transmission housings and the whole thing is tight to turn over. Get it right and it's smooth - just take care (you'll get what I mean when you get to it)

Cheers
did you quote that from this months racer magazine?

jono83
12-01-2009, 09:51 PM
double post

Gnarly Old Dog
12-01-2009, 11:50 PM
did you quote that from this months racer magazine?

Sort of :lol:

Cassp0nk
12-01-2009, 11:51 PM
lol just ordered your mag ;)