Racing Sunday 29th November 2009

[SteveB]

Hi

I missed a todays racing and the promises of having a high turn out of numbers!!! Can our commited winter racers post to confirm there entry for the 29th.

Also can we have some comments regarding the starting process that we were using over the last 2 weeks and advise what the majority prefer.

Starting process options.

1) 1st round staggered, followed by final start process round 2 onwards, based on last result. No Finals.

2) All qualifying heats staggered on 1 - 10 round one start, round 2 based on overall standings. With finals at end.

3) 1st qualifying heat staggered 1-10, 2nd round qualifying based on rotation start eg 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3, 3rd round 6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5 etc

4) Any other posted options

Remember we governed by the timing loop location?

Any other suggestions with regards to solving this issue would be appreciated.

Steve

[mikeyscott]

Option 2 for me please

[wylie]

2nd vote for option 2

[dibble34]

Appologies if this is one of the above, but once we had
1st round qualifying
2nd -5th rounds grid races with grid set by qualifying or race finish
6th race a final using the fasted times set in any round

To be honest the though of 5 staggered qualifying sessions does not appeal

What do you think?

[mikeyscott]

Don't think that is possible on the software. I would have to look into it.

The bonus about staggered starts is less breakages.

For me racing for a grid position and then having one grid final appeals more. Otherwise it devalues the end of day finals. That's my opinion.

[dibble34]

True, for me it just seems that 5 of the 6 races won't mean as much as they did. If it can't be done i think i have to vote 1. Also can we not move the loop further down the straight?

[mikeyscott]

How much further? We only have so much cable. Reason?

[dibble34]

Julian said he had loads. I wasn't too keen on starting before the start finish straight. What did the others think?

[mikeyscott]

I will double check with Kulian. We ran for the normal area today without issues. I think we started on the corner last time whilst we learn't the system.

[SteveB]

True, for me it just seems that 5 of the 6 races won't mean as much as they did. If it can't be done i think i have to vote 1. Also can we not move the loop further down the straight?


What do you mean? " Won't mean as much",

I believe that some of our racers that run on our circuit week after week may prefer a crash bang wallop start??? This hardly engaging to new racers. We all spend varying amounts on our cars, its safer and better on our pockets not all to go off at once. The excitment of having a main final at the end is great and more motivating. At least your race is less likely to be over in the first few races if all cars done fly off down the straight into the back of each other!!! Option 3 is the fairest method and everyone get a chance to head off first or at the front. Option 2 tends to be an advantage to the fastest racer, I like to race not sprint at the begining.

I raced all over world and option 3 is the most common and prefered.

[dibble34]

Wicked, hope i don't sound ungreatfull mate, you and Steve have done a cracking job, just throwing an opinion into the ring :)

[dibble34]

What do you mean? " Won't mean as much",

I believe that some of our racers that run on our circuit week after week may prefer a crash bang wallop start??? This hardly engaging to new racers. We all spend varying amounts on our cars, its safer and better on our pockets not all to go off at once. The excitment of having a main final at the end is great and more motivating. At least your race is less likely to be over in the first few races if all cars done fly off down the straight into the back of each other!!! Option 3 is the fairest method and everyone get a chance to head off first or at the front. Option 2 tends to be an advantage to the fastest racer, I like to race not sprint at the begining.

I raced all over world and option 3 is the most common and prefered.

For me, if i was fasted in the last race i want to be on pole next time, not be the first to go in a one by one order. I am pretty hard on my cars as you know :woot:, but i have not seen that many first corner incidents that have broken cars, can;t think of any right now. Sure you may get tangled up and it cost you time, but that is racing isn't it? I want to have a bit of fun and do as much racing as i can :)

Don't forget numbers have increased with the current setup so people must like it? Maybe if we change it could put new and old members off

[SteveB]

Personal Bests should be posted and rankings from that can be made, is quite appealing to me, so that you can rate yourself agaisnt others and see how you improve over a season. With a timing system in place and individual times being recorded, Mike could create a fastest time spread sheet for wet and dry meets/2wd/4wd etc?

Dave, What do you think?

[mikeyscott]

Option 3 sounds like an interesting one, but I have never done that one before.

At the moment I'd still have the 5 staggered qualifiers to set te car up for the final showdown.

We could post in the main section to confirm what the standard is at other clubs.

[mikeyscott]

Personal Bests should be posted and rankings from that can be made, is quite appealing to me, so that you can rate yourself agaisnt others and see how you improve over a season. With a timing system in place and individual times being recorded, Mike could create a fastest time spread sheet for wet and dry meets/2wd/4wd etc?

Dave, What do you think?

If I get a copy of the database when each week. If I don't race someone will have to send me a copy of the file so I can load it up into my VM

I shall try and do a Spreadsheet this week and post it on here for comments.

[SteveB]

For me, if i was fasted in the last race i want to be on pole next time, not be the first to go in a one by one order. I am pretty hard on my cars as you know :woot:, but i have not seen that many first corner incidents that have broken cars, can;t think of any right now. Sure you may get tangled up and it cost you time, but that is racing isn't it? I want to have a bit of fun and do as much racing as i can :)

Don't forget numbers have increased with the current setup so people must like it? Maybe if we change it could put new and old members off

Fair point, so if this forum works, then hopefully some may add there interest to the opportunities or threats that we are presented over this issue.

[dibble34]

Personal Bests should be posted and rankings from that can be made, is quite appealing to me, so that you can rate yourself agaisnt others and see how you improve over a season. With a timing system in place and individual times being recorded, Mike could create a fastest time spread sheet for wet and dry meets/2wd/4wd etc?

Dave, What do you think?

Yep that appeals, really liked it last week when Mike put the times up on here and i could see how i did. Happy to help with any of that if needed

[wylie]

I dont see the first few as races they are qualifiers for the main final at the end of day and see it as a challenge to keep up with the faster guys, should'nt those who are fast have the best spot for the next round of qualifying?

[dibble34]

Fair point, so if this forum works, then hopefully some may add there interest to the opportunities or threats that we are presented over this issue.

Agreed, hopefully we will get some feedback on here this week. Need to get Julian and Ian on here too posting what they think

[wylie]

Why dont 1/10th use the same format as 1/8th for qualifying a rolling start, where you as a driver have to find your own space on track and do your run in the alloted 5 mins

[mikeyscott]

What I'll do tomorrow is create a poll in the main Titchfield section and we can see what vote we get.

Shame our software doesn't record Personal Bests :(

[Randall34]

The issue that i have is that you are then just racing the track and your previous times, you aren't racing anyone else. You maybe leading a battle with someone on track but after adjusted time you maybe below them or vice versa. Also if someone has a really good race in a dry round 1 but is terrible in the rest because it rained (and couldn't adapt) then he will always start at the front.
So all that considered, staggered starts are good (Le Mans style) when the start order is the previous race result.
After all it is racing-
Having said that we could run legged finals (like nationals) with 3 qualifying rounds (staggered) with FTD sorted into finals, then a 3 leg final (grid) best 2 finishes out of 3 count. Best of both worlds and with PTs it easy to run.

[Matt-h]

For me, qualifying staggered in order of FTD and then 2 finals.

Finals to be grid start and best result over 2 rounds.

This then means your not racing each other in the the qualys - just the clock - and can hit pbs/track records easier.

I'm only going for this as its what i'm used to and this is the format for nationals and touring cars.

Also a bit of a break before finals would be good.

The loop a little down the straight would be good, however people still need to be able to stop under the rostrum after their run to avoid holding someone up on a hot lap.

In the 2 meetings i have atttended TORCH i have really enjoyed the friendly atmosphere.

Looking forward to the next one.

[mikeyscott]

For me, qualifying staggered in order of FTD and then 2 finals.

Finals to be grid start and best result over 2 rounds.

This then means your not racing each other in the the qualys - just the clock - and can hit pbs/track records easier.

I'm only going for this as its what i'm used to and this is the format for nationals and touring cars.

Also a bit of a break before finals would be good.

The loop a little down the straight would be good, however people still need to be able to stop under the rostrum after their run to avoid holding someone up on a hot lap.

In the 2 meetings i have atttended TORCH i have really enjoyed the friendly atmosphere.

Looking forward to the next one.

Quite like the sound of this one.

Loop down the straight because?

[Matt-h]

Quite like the sound of this one.

Loop down the straight because?

Because i love nailing a 6.5!

Also, its a concern that the loop hangs out of the astro turf on a corner.
Possible to catch it if you run wide = potentially expensive

[mikeyscott]

Just need some extra astro turf to cover the rest of the wires.

Where abouts on the straight are you thinking?

[Matt-h]

only about 6-8 feet further down, would give more room for the start of qualy.
tbh its not really an issue once the astro turf is covering the loop.

[Randall34]

Here here, staggered qualies followed by 2 finals, combined results tho maybe?

Loop on the other side of race control, gives a bit more of a flying start and room to launch.

[mikeyscott]

Here here, staggered qualies followed by 2 finals, combined results tho maybe?

Loop on the other side of race control, gives a bit more of a flying start and room to launch.

I was going to suggest the staggered start a bit further back as we are going to redo the area around the race hut to help with drainage.

[mikeyscott]

I think we should deal with the loop position after some needed track work. Get the track sorted again and then go from there.

[SteveB]

Great, the idea's are flowing:thumbsup: The best way will be to explain the options and vote trackside on the day, this Sunday when the Sun is shining and a bone dry track "would'nt it be great":woot:

Neil and Matt both perfect solutions but 2 leg finals would be probably simplier to do on a AM meeting.

[mikeyscott]

I have looked at the options again and I'm thinking the random staggered start with a 2 leg final.

Dave, what's your thoughts re the two leg finals?

Obviously numbers also determine what we do. I.e. last weekend I opted to run mixed class. Ideally we'd run 2WD and 4WD seperately

[super gripper]

I have looked at the options again and I'm thinking the random staggered start with a 2 leg final.

Dave, what's your thoughts re the two leg finals?

Obviously numbers also determine what we do. I.e. last weekend I opted to run mixed class. Ideally we'd run 2WD and 4WD seperately

two leg finals, no no no.................. not good. which option from the aboves is this one Mike?

4 or 5 rounds and a final, starting every time where/which position you finish...........which ones that?

I will of course run what ever but this one is my choice........

staggered start = pile ups and crashes............

and 2WD and 4WD should always be run seperately.

[AlisdairO]

I don't really mind what order we go in from the start. I'm with Dave on preferring grid starts for most of the races - it just makes it more exciting. Not going to cry if it doesn't happen, though ;).

On the mixed 2wd/4wd or not, I tend to prefer separate 2wd and 4wd in the winter, when it's really uneven, but we could consider mixing it up in the summer when there's not such a difference in performance?

edit: I won't be able to make it this sunday. Yet another wedding to go to :/

[mikeyscott]

I would only run mixed class when numbers are low. Eg last weekend when we had 6 2wd and 4 4wd

[AlisdairO]

I think that'll work when we've got mostly experienced racers coming along, but it makes sense to have races grouped by ability when we have a few newer drivers around - (a) it allows them all to be in the same heat, (b) they're in with a group they are at least a bit more competitive with, and (c) it reduces issues between more competitive drivers and the newer ones when the inevitable collisions occur.

[mikeyscott]

staggered start = pile ups and crashes............



Don't you mean less crashes?

[Matt-h]

Are people confusing grid start and staagered start?

I thought it was like this;


grid start - line up on the grid in qualifying results position. all leave on the 'warble' together.
Staggered - leave when indidual number is called
maybe i am confusing myself here:blush::blush:

[mikeyscott]

4 or 5 staggered heats and then finals is what I'd like.

As for the format of the staggered start I like the FTQ and random options

[David Church]

Nathan Ralls and Myself will be coming to race this Sunday:thumbsup:
And Nathan's little girl is going to race as well, so you will have 3 more, Me and Nathan will run 4wd and Emma will run 2wd.
Nathan is a top Schumacher driver, and I am not a top Schumacher driver, Lol, but we will be happy to help out in any way we can.
I am looking forward to coming back to this club!!!:thumbsup:

What tyres do you guys run?

[mikeyscott]

Nathan Ralls and Myself will be coming to race this Sunday:thumbsup:
And Nathan's little girl is going to race as well, so you will have 3 more, Me and Nathan will run 4wd and Emma will run 2wd.
Nathan is a top Schumacher driver, and I am not a top Schumacher driver, Lol, but we will be happy to help out in any way we can.
I am looking forward to coming back to this club!!!:thumbsup:

What tyres do you guys run?

Awesome!

PM SteveB re the tyres etc. I'm running Schumacher Mini Pins on my Cat SX and normally run worn mini spikes with a dry track.

Losi XXCR is in hibernation until spring, so I'm only doing 4WD!

Pm your radio info and PTs and I'll get you into the system if you want.

[David Church]

Just sent you a pm, will get Nathan to pm you as well.

What time do you guys start? Oh and I suppose I need an address as well, haha

I will bring plenty of tyres then:thumbsup:

[mikeyscott]

Cheers!

Have a look here.

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33958

I'll be up there from about 08:15

[David Church]

Just found all the details I need on your website:thumbsup:

[mikeyscott]

Just found all the details I need on your website:thumbsup:

Cool

[dibble34]

I have looked at the options again and I'm thinking the random staggered start with a 2 leg final.

Dave, what's your thoughts re the two leg finals?

Obviously numbers also determine what we do. I.e. last weekend I opted to run mixed class. Ideally we'd run 2WD and 4WD seperately

I am defo up for finals at the end, it's just how we start the races before that confuses me. I think it was Matt who has also said he is not 100% sure what staggered means either.

Could someone confirm.

Is it a staggered grid with everyone starting at the same time or, staggered in that we go of when our number is called? I really don't fancy 4 or 5 of the later.

[Matt-h]

staggered is when your number is called.

Double checked the BRCA handbook :)

[niggs98]

am looking forward to this. will be good to finally get down there and race., will pm my details over in a min

[dibble34]

staggered is when your number is called.

Double checked the BRCA handbook :)

Cheers Matt, have to say i am not too keen on that idea then!

[mikeyscott]

staggered is when your number is called.

Double checked the BRCA handbook :)

This is my vote on how we do it.

Dave & Neil, what is the format you normally run?

[David Church]

We usually run 4 qualifying with staggered starts, you go when your number is called, random in the first round, then the fastest time in round 1 goes first in round 2, the same for round 3 and 4, the fastest time in all rounds, not just the last round. This means if you went fastest in round 1, then broke in round 2, and no one beat your time, you go off first again, you earn the right to go off first by having the fastest time.
Then finals, I like 3 leg finals, but most clubs only run 1 final in the winter because of time.
But if you had enough time 3 leg finals is much better:thumbsup:

[SteveB]

The weather for Sunday looks like we will get light rain at this stage, but fingers crossed we may get some sunshine and great racing :thumbsup:. Mike if call a favour in with the weather man???? It normally works.

Anyone know is Phil William's is coming Sunday?? Could make for some good close racing with Dave Church and Nathan.

[David Church]

Hi Steve, I hear you are the guy to beat!!! Nathan is very fast, me not as fast as him haha, I look forward to hooking up with you guys, your enthusiam is fantastic and I would like to see your club grow!!!
What tyres do you use???

[SteveB]

Hi Steve, I hear you are the guy to beat!!! Nathan is very fast, me not as fast as him haha, I look forward to hooking up with you guys, your enthusiam is fantastic and I would like to see your club grow!!!
What tyres do you use???


Hi Dave, the Yellow Mini Pins work well, most of our drivers use these as these are availible trackside and tend to be most handy to get hold of. BB pink or green mini pins, but wear very fast and last only one meeting, so for club racers not the cheapest option. Depending conditions the track can get greasy and become slippery with whatever tyre you choose.

At little advice from my limited experience with car, put your cars to short wheel base and 2 - 3 degree`s toe to help with grip, 1.5 to 2 in dry. Lots of droop. 6.5 is plenty but if Nathan`s as good as Ive heard a 4.5 will be a piece of cake. :woot:

Large wing for grip and no cooling holes in body to protect electrics. Small wing for change of direction and short corners. Whatever you best prefer. Clutch is handy.

Hope this helps.

[mikeyscott]

Hi Steve, I hear you are the guy to beat!!! Nathan is very fast, me not as fast as him haha, I look forward to hooking up with you guys, your enthusiam is fantastic and I would like to see your club grow!!!
What tyres do you use???

Cheers for the positive comment. We try our best..

[David Church]

Cheers guys, I have a 6.5 in my Cat, Nathan may have a 5.5. But your setup sounds good. As I said, Nathan is very good with setup so I am sure he will be developing it all day!!!
Will have plenty of tyres for choice and I am sure we will be there bright and early for plenty of practise!!!
Oh and most important is to make some new friends and race our cars!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[mikeyscott]

I run a 7.5 in my Cat SX. I'll be interested as to what you make of it ;)

Steve I have emailed Phil...

[mikeyscott]

Chaps, I have put a poll up with regards to racing format

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34934

Now the stagger option doesn't take into account whether it's based around FTD, last result etc. It's just to guage the basic format

[mikeyscott]

Fingers crossed for the weather chaps!

[dibble34]

Fingers crossed for the weather chaps!


Not looking great for Saturday :(

http://www.metoffice.com/weather/uk/uk_forecast_warnings.html?day=4

[mikeyscott]

Indeed, but keep an eye on some of the other websites as there are differences..

Everyone keep your fingers crossed.

[mikeyscott]

Fingers Crossed it'll be more like this forecast


http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/dayforecast.asp?day=4&zipcode=SO32

Will still be a day for the 4WD runners

[Randall34]

Mike,
I'm in, although i may have to text you again, as it's a long way to come for another washout.
Provisionally book me in tho - same details as before.

Neil

[SteveB]

Mike,
I'm in, although i may have to text you again, as it's a long way to come for another washout.
Provisionally book me in tho - same details as before.

Neil

Hi Neil

Did you get the tool in the post? What have you changed with the shocks? Oil pistons?:confused:;)

[niggs98]

awwwww man nowt like presure for me dc lol, will be rolling with the 5.5 as always. if it is totally to much i now have a 7.5 as well. have some left over minipins from worksop as well as some minispikes and bb greans just incase. weather is looking better and better the closer we get so looking forward to it

[super gripper]

awwwww man nowt like presure for me dc lol, will be rolling with the 5.5 as always. if it is totally to much i now have a 7.5 as well. have some left over minipins from worksop as well as some minispikes and bb greans just incase. weather is looking better and better the closer we get so looking forward to it

not sure which weather reports people are looking at so here is the one I use, it has been pretty spot on so far............

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/11

[mikeyscott]

http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/today.asp?zipcode=so32

I haven't found the BBC that great recently, I try to do a cross comparison

I'll be a the race hut on Sunday morning etc. to open up

[mikeyscott]

It's getting better, but by no means perfect.

I'm running as cleaning bearings isn't an issue and my glitch last week was having my 2nd Helios TX in the wrong mode... D'oh!

[mikeyscott]

Typical. Beautiful today.. Fingers crossed.

[Cammers]

IM in if weather ok.

Cameron Taylor
B4 2WD
2.4ghz
PT 7449788

[Randall34]

Not looking good up here, how is it down there?

[mikeyscott]

Wet :( at the moment. It has stopped raining

[dibble34]

I live just round the corner and it has not been great to be honest. Heavy rain since about 5pm. Easing off now, if it doesn't rain anymore overnight then we may get away with it, but a close call. I got the D4 ready tonight just in case :thumbsup:

[mikeyscott]

Indeed the amount of rain we've had recently is taking the piss

[criscrum]

looks like more heavy rain on the way, storm warning for the south too,
not looking good.

[mikeyscott]

looks like more heavy rain on the way, storm warning for the south too,
not looking good.

Pants

[AmiSMB]

Hmm not liking the noisy rain in my back garden. Was hoping to get the Durango out :)

[Moakesy]

Were tichfeld track can someone give me direction please

[AmiSMB]

Were tichfeld track can someone give me direction please

Click here (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33958)for club details

[dibble34]

Looking a little too wet for me i am afraid. I have not seen the track so don't assume i am correct, but suspect it is a no go today. There is more rain coming too :thumbdown:

[criscrum]

looks like another rain stops play for me to , and more rain on the way, not good.

[mikeyscott]

Heading up now. Got some visitors coming

[mikeyscott]

A big thank you to Dave and Nathan coming down today, we didn't race, but met some great guys. In my eyes a very productive day, in certain aspects more than if we had raced.

Look forward to racing when the weather is in our favour.

Big well done to Steve and Julian for getting the drainage ditch sorted as it was blocked. We have a start finish corner draining like it should do again.

[SteveB]

Hi

Mike not sure if DC mentioned, but according to forum home page, its Dave Church Birthday, 42 today, I thought DC looked more 52, maybe just the weather. :lol:

Been a pleasure in meeting Dave and Nathan today, thanks for your insight of experince and potential options availiable to us at Torch.

Best Regards Steve

[super gripper]

hello guy's,

sorry i did not make it today but the weather was rediclious! :woot:

oh well here we go again waiting to see what it brings next week, my car is already and sat there looking at me but I was not going to risk my electrics.

glad to read some things might have been sorted and drainage repaired.

so lets hope as we always do the weather will be better next week, there is a frosty spell due to hit us soon and racing when it is that cold is always fun..........new flask bought today......in preparation.

[mikeyscott]

hello guy's,

sorry i did not make it today but the weather was rediclious! :woot:

oh well here we go again waiting to see what it brings next week, my car is already and sat there looking at me but I was not going to risk my electrics.

glad to read some things might have been sorted and drainage repaired.

so lets hope as we always do the weather will be better next week, there is a frosty spell due to hit us soon and racing when it is that cold is always fun..........new flask bought today......in preparation.

No worries mate, understandable. Difference is Steve and I live just down the road etc.

Nathan's and Dave's Cat ran nicely in the wet. Nathan was down to mid 23s laps, we weren't racing thou. We were talking and sorting things out etc. Some cars went round. (Mine didn't)

Got some work to do on the Cat this week after seeing Nathan's

[David Church]

52!!!!! haha thanks Steve:p

Even though it was a wash out I enjoyed meeting all you guys, your club is gonna grow!!!!

Lets hope we can make it down again soon:thumbsup:

[DanG]

Hi Chaps

First message I've posted on this Oople thing! Coincidently this is the only way I can communicate as I've lost my voice hence why I didn't come to the track today!

Sounds as though some good things have happened today, not least some drainage work! Hopefully next week the weather (and my health) will be better to do some racing.

On the note of the preferred staring methods I don't really mind although I do like the challenge of surviving the first bend when we all start together! That said I understand the risk of breakage and the staggered start is more sensible from that view.

Dan:p

[Matt-h]

Shame it was a washout today, however as said, it was a very productive morning.

Great that Dave and Nathan made the long trip (was also funny seeing them almost fly straight past the circuit entrance) to TORCH.

Seeing the cars and hearing from experience was certainly an eye opener - now where do i start:confused:

Hopefully we can get a full meeting in soon.

Matt

[niggs98]

was good to get down there. shame the weather stopped play but at least i did geta little practise before it did. will look forward to next time