Tamiya Durga DB01 EP Buggy (A cheaper 501X?)

[wayneski]

cheers mate,
will have a butchers if I can fool my works goddamned firewall into letting me view ebay!

[drinternat]

I have aBluebird 617 MG in my DB and its wicked fast and torquey too, think it was only £30 shipped from Japan!

lee

I have the Bluebird 631. They are excelent servo's. I think it was dinball I got mine from on Ebay about the £35 ish. I cant remember the postage though as I combined with my pal to order a few things at once to save costs.

[wayneski]

Just found a bluebird BMs 620 MG for £25 and it's just up the road.

Will this do? 10.6 K torque 0.13sec 6v?

Any advice appreciated

[DCM]

it is a little slow, but definately up to the job of steering.

[scotoap]

631MG is the way to go as you say drinternat its metal geared too, speed .08sec and yes it was dinball we got them from, they were £35.00 including p&p to UK.
Excellent servos, for which you can get all the parts for, if you can break them, even Jimmy uses them so can't be bad. Ha Ha

[wayneski]

Thanks for all the advice on the bluebird stuff. However,being an impatient tw!t Im going down to antics in worcs this aft to see what they can offer me. Thought I would try and support my local shop a bit!
Don't think they do bluebird stuff though.
Does anyone have any recommended alternatives (futaba or hitec) or is the bluebird stuff so good I should park it and wait???

Cheers

[wayneski]

Or a 661MG+HS? found at another local shop?

Ye I realise I am being a complete PITA!

[sosidge]

Thanks for all the advice on the bluebird stuff. However,being an impatient tw!t Im going down to antics in worcs this aft to see what they can offer me. Thought I would try and support my local shop a bit!
Don't think they do bluebird stuff though.
Does anyone have any recommended alternatives (futaba or hitec) or is the bluebird stuff so good I should park it and wait???

Cheers

I would totally recommend Futaba.

Hitec and Bluebird are two servo brands that I definitely would NOT recommend as I have seen problems with both first hand in terms of quality, fit and performance.

Also Tamiya do not supply servo horns for Hitec so that may cause hassle, you might have to bodge something together with Hitecs own part.

Unfortunately Futaba do not make a fast, mid-priced servo (eg £35 ish), you need to go towards £70 to get a fast Futaba new. My cars either have Futaba 3003 (£8) or 9451/9550 (£70) in them!

However you will notice that the other top-top servo brands, KO and Sanwa, don't make fast mid-priced servos either. There is probably a reason for this...;)

[wayneski]

Bit of a price swing there sosidge!
Your comments have reminded me of sommit as well. Which of the supplied servo horns fit bluebird servos? (If I went that way?)

Still not decided yet. £70 for a part time racing/bashing servo seems a mite excessive to me.

[sosidge]

The Bluebirds fit a Futaba horn.

The Acoms will probably prove to be fine for bashing, I would run it until it breaks, but you will find that the quality of a basic Futaba is a step up although not necessarily a great deal faster or torquier.

Futaba do do a metal gear servo that is a shade faster and torquier than a standard one for £20, called the S3010, personally speaking that would be the limit I would go to unless I wanted to spend £70!

I have used the S3003 in touring and buggy before, in touring it is fine, in buggy is is maybe a little bit weak for racing, probably fine for bashing. Futaba also do the S3004 which is a ballraced version of the S3003 so should be a little faster and smoother and last longer without wear.

This is just my recommendation of course, I am sure you will find plenty of people who will sing the praises of Bluebird, bit I wouldn't touch them with a bargepole!

[wayneski]

Cheers sos,
A bit of common sense seeping from your words into my mind sack. After waiting so long for it, Ithink I will use the acoms till they die, there are 2 of them in the set after all! I can keep looking at the longterm replacement whilst enjoying the car, which I think will be this aft instead of going to antics (if I go I KNOW I will spend money!!!)

Cheers

[Spoolio]

Hi, I had an S3003 in my B4 as it was all I had when I built it. Its now been retired to my tourer and I've got an S3050, digital, metal geared and ballraced. Paid $45 for it plus postage from the US but if I were you I'd wait till the Acoms are dead, the ones I have are still not dead after years, they just keep getting downgraded! One for the Hotshot, one for the Hornet at the moment.

[Eddie168]

Anyone have any idea what pinion gear should i use for checkpoint 19t money motor? thx:D

[DCM]

try a 19 or 20 for starters

[sosidge]

try a 19 or 20 for starters

Agreed, was running these at my first race meeting with the car. 19 would be my choice, 20 is on the edge of being overgeared.

[A.J. Gee]

Hitec and Bluebird are two servo brands that I definitely would NOT recommend as I have seen problems with both first hand in terms of quality, fit and performance.

Also Tamiya do not supply servo horns for Hitec so that may cause hassle, you might have to bodge something together with Hitecs own part.


I just wanted to correct you on the Hitec brand servo not fitting with the supplied servo saver. This is not true, i own the hs 625mg and have no problems with this servo due to quality or performance and as i said the servo saver fits just fine.
A little off the subject of servos now, but i just wanted to thank you for your recommendation of using the remaining shims for the slipper clutch. I did so just after reading your post, and i am very happy i did. It would have been nice for Tamiya to mention something, but i guess thats why we have great forums like this and people with knowledge that can inform others. Thanks again.

[Metla]

Interesting regarding the pinions, I'm running a 20 on my 8.5 BL, I have been meaning to re-read Jimmy's review, Do I remember correctly that he said he used a 21t pinion on a 16 turn motor?

[Toonz]

it's on page 4 of the review

"I chose to use a 21t pinion on the Peak 14x2"

[wayneski]

Had a bash around last night and have to say that now the acoms have 'bedded in' it is performing quite well. Good enough to last for a bit anyroad.
So I was browsing the net and found the 631Mg on Rc Mart. Shipped (albeit via air not ems) for £15. At that price I just had to say yes!
Thanks for the help all

[RogerM]

There is nothing wrong with Hitec servos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have used nothing but Hitec for the last decade after having too many expensive failures wi KO. I've not had any problems with them other than the occassional gear which is cheap and easy to fix. I have them in everything from micro to 1/8th scale and in all of my planes too.

[Toonz]

WOOT! my DB01 slipper and titanium arrived! thank you mr.postman!:D

[Eddie168]

Does any have any idea any good and cheap servo for my Durga?

[DCM]

you need something ith a bit of torque as well as speed, try a google searh for a bluebird (some have slated, but there has been great improvements of late and I use them in all my cars.... 10th buggy and tc also in 8th truggy)

[sosidge]

it's on page 4 of the review

"I chose to use a 21t pinion on the Peak 14x2"

Proper mods tend to be a bit easier to gear than a stock or spec motor. They have a bit more torque as they usually run less advance, also they don't usually run laydown brushes so they run cooler.

I've swiched to a 12x1 Orion V2 in the Durga now and have an 18 pinion on it, only one tooth less than I would run on the 19x1 motor!

[Eddie168]

you need something ith a bit of torque as well as speed, try a google searh for a bluebird (some have slated, but there has been great improvements of late and I use them in all my cars.... 10th buggy and tc also in 8th truggy)

well i got a towerpro mg955 metal gear servo installed in my DB01 but i find it quite slow but torque is quiet good, you have any suggestion of which model of blue bird servo? cheers

[jimmy]

in the TRF 501X review I used a bluebird 617. I'd reccomend that or the latest ones which numbers escape me. I only took it out of the 501X when I got a low profile KO so I could mount the ESC further forward.

[Doomanic]

I've been running Hitec for years and never had a failure.:cool:
The HS625MG (http://dcracing.co.uk/dcrshop/product_info.php?products_id=155) is a very good servo for sensible money.

[Spoolio]

If anybody is interested in using them, my mate has built up his B44 shocks and the dimensions are as follows (measured from the top of the alloy Factory Team cap eyelet to the bottom of the shock rod eyelet):

Front compressed / extended = 63mm / 83mm

Rear compressed / extended = 72mm / 98mm

Not sure how these compare with B4 shocks though (sorry can't be arsed to take mine off to measure them at the moment), heck I haven't even checked the part numbers. For all I know B4 and B44 shocks might be the same parts.

[sosidge]

Just in case anyone is interested I have just taken a couple of measurements from the Durga shocks (total length).

The fronts are approximately 77mm extended, 60mm compressed.

The rears are approximately 93mm extended, 65mm compressed.



If anybody is interested in using them, my mate has built up his B44 shocks and the dimensions are as follows (measured from the top of the alloy Factory Team cap eyelet to the bottom of the shock rod eyelet):

Front compressed / extended = 63mm / 83mm

Rear compressed / extended = 72mm / 98mm

Not sure how these compare with B4 shocks though (sorry can't be arsed to take mine off to measure them at the moment), heck I haven't even checked the part numbers. For all I know B4 and B44 shocks might be the same parts.

Any chance you could re-take the measurements from mounting centre to mounting centre? I think the B44 shocks are the same size bodies as the B4 so compressed will be the same but the B44 has longer front shafts for more extension.

For the kit Tamiya shocks you subtract 7mm from the total length to get the centre-centre length.

[Carlos69]

....a low profile KO so I could mount the ESC further forward.
which model is that Jimmy ...the KO PROPO PDS-2413 ICS ? ...it sounds like a good servo
If there is enough room I'm going to put my esc between the motor and servo and my rx in the transponder bay so no wires over the motor can(want a fast&torquey low profile digital Metal/Ti geared coreless servo)

[jimmy]

Yeah thats the one. There were 2 choices, this or the Futaba, and the KO had slightly better specs - plus I've loads of KO stuff and never owned a Futaba servo beyond the basic stuff.
Torque and speed are nothing special on paper but it does perfectly well in my 501X.

[jimmy]

I have - ONE receiver. Which gets swapped round like a little slut-receiver between all my cars. Some of which are a real pain to install into. I modified the Durga aerial mount to make it a bit easier to install the wire.

I put a slight flat on the mount first, to stop my drill slipping around - then put a 45 degree hole into the mount. Now I can just poke the wire in the side and it peeks out of the top. Sorry - simple I know but it made me happy so thought I'd share. :)

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/misc/db01aerialmod01.jpg

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/misc/db01aerialmod02.jpg

[DCM]

sod the aerial mount trick, is that the rcscrewz kit on it jimbo?

[jimmy]

hahaha
you'd be mistaken there - that's a big flash bouncing off the ceiling and making the kit screws look more 'bling' than they really are! ;)

[DCM]

you got a little wear on your front belt there too Jimbo.

[Toonz]

this was what i've done today...

install slipper, replace all the screws with titanium (so many screws again!), put in a tamiya BZ23T motor and gear up to the max 23pinion....

ran it, stupid fast! hahahaha.......and melted part of the lousy rubber connector cover between the motor and esc. the rest of the units are fine. need some deans i guess....and to gear it down...i'll try the 17pinion tomorrow...

does any of you feel that the front arms wobble more than the rear? the manual say 2pcs of 3x0.2mm shims for each side but i've added 1 more tonight and it feels better.

[jimmy]

you got a little wear on your front belt there too Jimbo.


I do? :wtf: where?!

[sosidge]

this was what i've done today...

install slipper, replace all the screws with titanium (so many screws again!), put in a tamiya BZ23T motor and gear up to the max 23pinion....

ran it, stupid fast! hahahaha.......and melted part of the lousy rubber connector cover between the motor and esc. the rest of the units are fine. need some deans i guess....and to gear it down...i'll try the 17pinion tomorrow...

does any of you feel that the front arms wobble more than the rear? the manual say 2pcs of 3x0.2mm shims for each side but i've added 1 more tonight and it feels better.

I've shimmed my arms out to be virtually slop-free but still smooth, needed 0.5mm+ on all the arms plus a few small shims at the hub carriers too.

It is just a habit I have got into over the years.

[sosidge]

I've actually been pondering moving my antenna mount somewhere else on the car, since the centre cover has been coming off my car so frequently for motor access it gets pretty boring re-threading the antenna every time too.

Unfortunately there isn't a super-obvious place so I have that idea on hold right now.

[DCM]

I got a whacking hole in the centre cover for motor and pinion access, so that cover never comes off.

Jim, on the side of the belt, there is red chord showing.

[jimmy]

:D thats how Tamiya make them dude!

[budgio]

Added the 3racing shocks tonight,anyone any ideas what oil comes as standard in these?
They seem to be the same as the df03 3racing shocks
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/budgio/PC180006.jpg

Missed the posty today with my titanium screw set..........bugger :(

[DCM]

:D thats how Tamiya make them dude!

man I would be crap at reviews, little things heehee....

I got some TC three racing shocks and were very disappointed, if I were you I would strip em down, check what pistons are in there and put your own oil in and make sure them o-rings are lubricated

[Metla]

In the past I have found 3 Racing shocks to ruin the handling, Horrible crap, Its like they never even tested them on the cars they sell them for. I'd rather keep the stock shocks.

That aside, I went racing today.

Car performed pretty well, We were holding a (demonstration) meeting in the pit area at one of NZ's bigger race meetings (real race cars). The surface was like ball bearings so I struggled for traction, The track rutted up so the car became unstable, The jumps had only flat areas to land on, and I was pushing hard so I manged to ruin the spur by the end of the day.

Though everyone had to contest with the track so its no big issue.

Definitely needs tires, shocks, slipper.

But, she jumped well, cornered awesome if I stayed out of the deep dust off the racing line, and went like a demon down the big straight and around the sweeper.

[sim]

In the past I have found 3 Racing shocks to ruin the handling, Horrible crap, Its like they never even tested them on the cars they sell them for. I'd rather keep the stock shocks.


Me too. In fact, you know they never test them for the cars. They just use the same pistons and springs rates on whatever car, buggy or truck they are for and just make the shocks longer or shorter. They usually have too much damping so use the pistons with the most holes (2 holes if I remember) and those springs are stiff! I had a set on my DF-03 and they were great at keeping the chassis off the ground but to tune the buggy for racing, I just couldn't find springs that worked. Tamiya, Kyosho, Associated springs were too narrow. Losi springs were slightly wide and much too long. I just went back to kit shocks with (I think) 1 hole in the front and 2 hole in the rear (Or might be the other way around too) with the Tamiya DF-03 spring set (black, gold, silver) and that worked well with the CVA plastic shocks.

[Vin]

Hopefully the mailman delivers my Durga tomorrow with a slipper and some springs for the DF03 Alu damper set I have lying around.

I'm glad I've read the review you posted Jimmy because now I know I have to thread those holes. However could anyone tell me what tap I need? M3 or M2?

[DCM]

M3 tap, thats the one

[jimmy]

I Durga'd at the Southport GP today - fairly happy with the result but I really needed something more than bald tyres on the car as I was struggling for traction everywhere.. oh well. I got a 9 and 8 in round - not sure what I got in the last one as I got my quickest time but others might have done better. I was in the A final until the final round and got pushed into B2. In the final I was challenging for the lead for a lap or so, then a small mistake - followed by a whole host more.. I couldn't actually see the left hand side of the track because the guy next to me was leaning right forward - that's my excuse.

[Carlos69]

Dunno if this has been asked b4 but is it recommended to run a capacitor across the motor wires of these 540's ?...I will be wiring it up to an ancient Tekin 410s (until stock racing starts and then I'll switch to the SP GT and a 13.5 BL)

[DCM]

yes you do

[Carlos69]

ah ...ok, do you know which ones to get ?

[DCM]

I really don't know, there might be the type and rating on the instructions for your esc?

[BREEZER]

Jimmy, you did well at "SOUTHPORT" with your DURGA would you have done any better with your "501X". I have a 501 and am thinking of getting a DURGA and looking @ the price of spares dont think I can go wrong.Is the upgrades you have on it the Slipper Clutch.& One Way.

Thanks Very Much,

MARTIN

[jimmy]

Hi, yeah I had the Slipper and One way on the car - along with the shocks off my 501X. I've driven more dialled cars for sure - it just wasn't amazing yesterday but I'd put it down to the tyres. It was good though and I'm happy with my qualifying position.
I can't say I'd have done better with my 501X but it's certainly more finely adjustable and tunable a race car. I'll get some new tyres if I go to York with it next weekend :)

[terry.sc]

Dunno if this has been asked b4 but is it recommended to run a capacitor across the motor wires of these 540's ?No, there's no need to add capacitors as they are mounted inside the can. If you do want to add extras you need 16v 0.1uf capacitors.

[Carlos69]

No, there's no need to add capacitors as they are mounted inside the can. If you do want to add extras you need 16v 0.1uf capacitors.

Cheers for the info Terry :cool:

[gargadud]

Hi guys,

My son (and I) just finished building his Durga (with slipper and TRF501 shocks). The car is great and handle superbly!

We just received a few hop-up's (CVD's) and Fluorine coated Suspension balls (No.: 53709).
I noticed that this ball is slightly bigger than the original one (+ 0.4 mm). Is it a problem? Anyone has already installed these balls?
Any feedback appreciated. :)

[jimmy]

I thought you meant balls for the camber links etc - but are these for the suspension hinge pins to replace the plastic kit items? When you say bigger, are they longer or bigger diameter? There is a little slop especially at the front - and the balls can pop out in a crash, so maybe a little bigger isn't a bad thing?

[gargadud]

Thanks for the fast answer Jimmy!
I mean the ball at the end of the suspension hinge pins. Actually it is a bit longer. It's true that the whole suspension is a bit loose... so as you say it could help! I will give a try and report!

cheers

[wayneski]

Got my membership sorted with tony at Kiddy car club today so plan on running mine there at some point in the next few days(if it EVER stops raining!)
Anyone got any tips on setup for this track. I have the 1 way, and 501x shocks available to fit but thought I would run it stock to begin with. Any advice appreciated or if anyone is about who'd like to join me??

[wayneski]

Oh and what are the best general tyres?
Schumacher spikes? Where can I get em?

Cheers

[MitchB.]

This car looks amazing. I love the body. What is the most commonly broken part on the car?

[Carlos69]

This car looks amazing. I love the body. What is the most commonly broken part on the car?

Well, some hop ups will save parts being broken or wearing out early...mainly the slipper clutch which will save your transmission some grief (if set properly)...but so far, probably the buggy's weakest point seems to be the rear shock tower...

[sosidge]

...and there is a possible fix for the shock tower too, Jimmy has already detailed it in his review, basically mount the wing further back. Since I did this I haven't re-broken my tower, although I haven't landed on my lid as often either as I am more used to the car.

I haven't broken a single other part on it, and everything else still seems in good condition (although the CVA shocks are starting to feel the strain I think - getting very wobbly indeed!)

In fact, last night I broke a servo gear rather than a chassis part, shows that the car itself is tough - tougher than my electrics unfortunately:wtf:

[wayneski]

No one got any suggestions as to tyres?
Jimmy what will you be replacing your bald ones with?

[sosidge]

Oh and what are the best general tyres?
Schumacher spikes? Where can I get em?

Cheers

There is no such thing as a "best" tyre, or a "general" tyre for that matter.

It all depends on the track.

However the Schumacher Minispike in Yellow compound is probably the tyre that works on most UK surfaces, from dry grass through to the various indoor surfaces. These are pretty widely available from shops.

[jimmy]

indeed. I am extremely tight when it comes to buying new tyres :D
I will get some schummy mini pins if I go to York regional this weekend. I usually prefer schumacher mini spikes as they are just more forgiving and easier to drive.

[wayneski]

Cheers gents,
I know I will never get a one size fits all kind of tyre but they seem close enough for someone of my standard. (and I'll still use the kit ones) I shall get some forthwith.

Had a blast today and found the car very easy to predict. May have just been the wetness of the track but found the car wanted to understeer into a turn when off power but when back on power it went into a very predictable and controllable powerslide :)))
Lots of fun. Would fitting the one way lessen the initial understeer?

[jimmy]

yes, the off power (or motor braking) is beause of the front differential. With the one way it will steer much more off power. Different way of driving I guess - it took me a couple of rounds to get back into racing with a one-way when I put one in the Durga last weekend.

[DCM]

I quite like the way it drives without actualy, on carpet with the kit tyres, I got some yellows to try too.

[wayneski]

Where from DCM?
Did you get new wheels 2? I twatted a curb with my front and seem to have bent the wheel! Better that than damage anything else I suppose. Bent it back to some semblance of straightness and got some new fronts on order from RC mart.
Are there any better for it our there though?

[DCM]

I like the kit tyres, they grip and dont wear out in 20 minutes (they look like they have barely been used).

If you want to play with tyres and wheels, just search ebay for XX4 wheel ad tyre sets.

[wayneski]

taa muchly

[wayneski]

By the way is anyone near to Kiddy (and a member) and fancy meeting up for a durga race?compare setups and generally mess about?

just a thought

[Carlos69]

Jimmy, what hop ups are you intending to fit for the follow-up review ? Slipper, one-way. steel cvd's, TRF501x shocks, belt retainers, ceramic diff & thrust race with a 501 diff joint....and throw in a decent Brushless/Lipo combo...and stir ?

btw I got a YeahRacing TRF501x front and rear cvd combo set at a reasonable price...they look quality

[Metla]

There is no such thing as a "best" tyre, or a "general" tyre for that matter.

It all depends on the track.

However the Schumacher Minispike in Yellow compound is probably the tyre that works on most UK surfaces, from dry grass through to the various indoor surfaces. These are pretty widely available from shops.

aye?

Don't you guys have dirt tracks over there?

I suppose that may explain a fair bit if the majority of the people who have put forward their views on the kit in this thread are driving on that type of surface.

[jimmy]

Views on the 'KIT' are wholly different to views on the tyres.

[Metla]

Views on the 'KIT' are wholly different to views on the tyres.


uh...No kidding,

The abilities of the chassis and box standard gear isn't exactly being pushed to its limits on an indoor track, Or on grass.

It explains a lot in regards to opinions and experiences put forward on various cars through out the forum, and its something I'll keep in mind for the future.

[Northy]

Why do you think an 'indoor track' or 'grass' doesn't test a car to it's limits? :confused:

G

[jimmy]

I'm assuming he thinks everyone in the UK is basically a crap driver since we don't get 'tested' :D

Metla- mate....... You'd get a shock if you came over here and we put you on Bury Metro or Southport tracks. Thanks for the 'diss' though, much appreciated.

[Northy]

Or the last Worksop track.....:rolleyes:

G

[jimmy]

remind me to stick the brushless in for this weekend G - I'm bored of getting passed on the straight :p

[Northy]

Will do. Please do bear in mind that the track will be crap and un-challenging though....... :p

G

[jimmy]

That sir, is a given. This is the UK after all.:D

[Northy]

Thank you sir.

G

[B4james]

Does anyone know if the Durga rims weigh the same as the 501X rims, I like using the 501X rims on my B44 as they are lighter than the Associated kit ones and looking to get the durga ones if they are

[Northy]

The Durga rims are proper boss and likely to be a little lighter as they are actually a legal size! The 501X rims are too big like the Losi rims.

G

[jimmy]

haha indeed, Hupo pointed out that the newest wheels (which I guess also applies to those with the 501X Worlds Edition) are indeed smaller to conform to IFMAR rules.

[wayneski]

Now, I'm probably being a bit thick here, but which size balls do I need to order from kanzen for the diffs/one way?
I know I could just measure but I don't have it with me and I have the urge to order!

cheers

[Chris]

haha indeed, Hupo pointed out that the newest wheels (which I guess also applies to those with the 501X Worlds Edition) are indeed smaller to conform to IFMAR rules.

Is it a big difference?

The width is the same?

[sosidge]

I just had a look at some of my wheels and there isn't even 1mm difference in the diameter. Unfortunately all my 501 wheels have tyres glued to them so I can't take every measurement.

Rest assured tyres fit on both about the same though! And Durga wheels have a snug fitting hex which should stop the wheels coming loose and wearing out.

[jimmy]

yeah theres very little in it - the new ones are the correct size - the original wheels were copied so exactly from the losi ones that they also copied the incorrect losi dimensions.

I did notice the hex seems better. the wheels are probably a running change I'd imagine, but you're assured of getting the new ones if it says 'durga' on the packet - I guess.

[wayneski]

I know I'm being lazy but what are the size of the balls? Want to get some kanzen ones to put in my oneway (and rear diff too I suppose).

Cheers

[Toonz]

i've been enjoying the car so far.... running with the tamiya dirt tuned 27T and gear to the max in a small area is quite fun. easy to drive and this car is sensitive! me like!:D

[jimmy]

hey wayneski - I thought it was 3mm but don't use me as a reference :) I dont know where any of my manuals are, Ive got a zx5 and a D4 manuals here but I don't have either of those cars here :rolleyes:

[AaronR]

The standard black Durga wheels are 51304 (front) and 51305 (rear).

The new white Durga/TRF501X wheels are 51320 (front) and 51321 (rear).

[Metla]

I'm assuming he thinks everyone in the UK is basically a crap driver since we don't get 'tested' :D

Metla- mate....... You'd get a shock if you came over here and we put you on Bury Metro or Southport tracks. Thanks for the 'diss' though, much appreciated.

Rack off with that crap, If your going to jump to conclusions and tell people what I "think" then you can shove it. You want to be dissed, That sort of crap will do it.

Now that we have it confirmed that I'm not your freakin mate, The point was the car will react differently in different conditions, Your guys feedback won't apply to the conditions I run on, End of story,

Could I beat you on your tracks?, Hell no, would I make any such claims?

HELL NO.

I would expect you lot would beat me on my tracks, ffs.

[Northy]

Nice dude, nice.....

G

[DCM]

fight... fight... FIGHT.... handbags at five paces.....

Man I can smell the testosterone.

Lets all calm down and get back to the car. It is a cutprice 501X who, for most, would be just as good for most average drivers as the 501X.

[werner1619]

ok,

this is getting interesting.............

[wayneski]

cheers jimmy. I've finished me shift now so I can quit being a lazy sod and actually measure one or even rtfm!
Out on kiddy track again today and had an absolute blast! Enjoying the car in standard spec although admittedly my skill level isn't the highest. However the car was riding the bumps and jumps pretty good even when I was giving the mamba too much headway:))

[jimmy]

Rack off with that crap, If your going to jump to conclusions and tell people what I "think" then you can shove it. You want to be dissed, That sort of crap will do it.

Now that we have it confirmed that I'm not your freakin mate, The point was the car will react differently in different conditions, Your guys feedback won't apply to the conditions I run on, End of story,

Could I beat you on your tracks?, Hell no, would I make any such claims?

HELL NO.

I would expect you lot would beat me on my tracks, ffs.

Chip on shoulder or what! :rolleyes:

[jimmy]

cheers jimmy. I've finished me shift now so I can quit being a lazy sod and actually measure one or even rtfm!
Out on kiddy track again today and had an absolute blast! Enjoying the car in standard spec although admittedly my skill level isn't the highest. However the car was riding the bumps and jumps pretty good even when I was giving the mamba too much headway:))

Yeah the Tamiya suspension is nice and smooth and the car is really stable (its as long as a limo, haha!) - are you running 501X shocks? or kit?

[wayneski]

kit at the mo.Like how stable it is and well balanced. Wasn't really that anal about component layout during assembly but it doesn't suffer because of it! Have the 501 shocks ready for upgrade(as well as f/r cvd one way, yeah racing carbon shock towers), just need to assemble. No rush though going to just enjoy driving as standard on our boring non dirt tracks. Definite fun with the brushless

[wayneski]

Oh yeah , got my bluebird 631mg through from rc mart today. 4 days bog standard post from hong kong not bad at all!

[jimmy]

I've yet to put some serious power in it- but the tracks I've been racing on for the review it wasn't needed. Last weekend I was a little underpowered though - and this weekend is York regional so I want to try and be competitive there. Northy promises some big jumps, which I want to clear :D We'll see how it handles my brushless and some big crashes hehe.

Actually I gave it some really hard punishment last weekend at southport - including flipping mid-air and landing right on the roof into the face of a jump :( Bent the wing but the car was fine.

[wayneski]

apart from my bent front wheel (full speed into a curb whilst avoiding my 2 year old) it has survived my driving very well.
BTW where did you get your schumacher spikes from. The only ones I can find on ebay are for touring cars??

[jimmy]

Any hobby shop should be able to get them for you - 'The Race Place' advertiser on the banner rotation should be able to sort you, you can PM 'spenner' or 'modelimages' about that - or I'm sure someone else will chime in with their 'fave' shop :)

[werner1619]

Any video footage yet..?

[jimmy]

Sorry Werner - totally forgot last weekend. I think it was a combo of the fight that nearly broke out, and the fact I was trying to make the A final - and then was gutted to have dropped to the B. :wtf: Is that enough excuses? I'll try again this weekend though as I'm racing it again. It'll have 501X shocks, one way diff and slipper.

[wayneski]

Cheers, will have a look in the morning. Having trouble seeing 1 or everything a the mo. Not that I have drunk too much or anything!

Good luck at the weekend, have got got any other hop ups fitted?

[werner1619]

No sweat :)

[jimmy]

Just those three things. I have a screw kit but have been too lazy to fit it :)


Speaking of screw kits - Tonys Screws have kindly offered to donate their new durga kit for the winner of the Durga in the oople competition! So you don't have to mess about with the phillips screws :)
I'm really happy about that as it will make the build a lot more pleasent and having used Tonys screws in the past there's no nicer build than using those.

Tony will have the screw kit available online shortly (I'll post when they're available) and there will be a little discount for oople forum members too :) we love Tony.

[wayneski]

look forward to hearing how it goes

[Metla]

Why do you think an 'indoor track' or 'grass' doesn't test a car to it's limits? :confused:

G

Grab yourself a motocross bike, Ride around an MX track for an hour at race speed.

Then do the same in a warehouse.

Oh wait, you could go all day in a warehouse,.... and collapse from exhaustion within 15 minutes on an MX track.

At the end of the day, The conditions are harsher.

Now, Seeing as I had no idea people were so sensitive about not actually using their off-road buggies in an off-road enviorment, I'll add this little disclaimer, On the day, the most skilled driver with the best run will win no matter what the track surface, No slur was intended on anyones manhood, womenhood, or driving abilities.

[werner1619]

Melta,

Good for you, every one has their own opinion. Thats why I read forums, to see what other people think. Just keep cool when sticking to your point. Not pointing to you Malta, but everyone.

One day I felt quit negative and all that came trough on my posts. Lucky people noticed and I changed my aditude.

So how about that Durga DB01, I have entered the compition an d hope I win it....

[DCM]

Actualy the surface you race on determines the type of tyre you use mostly, and Tiverton was a level playing field as most if not all cars worked there within reason. When you start putting ruts, jumps and bumps in, that really tests things, whether it be on dirt, grass or astro.

The biggest difference in dirt and grass/astro is the grip level, on dirt, you are fighting to find grip, on high grip, it causes a whole different set of issue.

[Toonz]

can these yellow dish be use on the durga?

http://www.stellamodels.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_173&products_id=3026

http://www.stellamodels.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_173&products_id=3027

:rolleyes:

[jimmy]

can these yellow dish be use on the durga?

http://www.stellamodels.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_173&products_id=3026

http://www.stellamodels.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=75_173&products_id=3027

:rolleyes:

yes! :)

[jimmy]

Grab yourself a motocross bike, Ride around an MX track for an hour at race speed.

Then do the same in a warehouse.

Oh wait, you could go all day in a warehouse,.... and collapse from exhaustion within 15 minutes on an MX track.

At the end of the day, The conditions are harsher.

Now, Seeing as I had no idea people were so sensitive about not actually using their off-road buggies in an off-road enviorment, I'll add this little disclaimer, On the day, the most skilled driver with the best run will win no matter what the track surface, No slur was intended on anyones manhood, womenhood, or driving abilities.


I don't even know what you're talking about but I did notice you changed your argument from testing cars, to testing drivers. And in a way, yes you are correct. But since you now agree with me that it would be nice to have some dirt tracks over here with big well-sclupted jumps, I think we can be best buddies again.;)
I don't mind that you didn't like my review and thought it was flawed. But since you are saying things we agree upon - but STILL want to argue and pick fights then i think you need to go away and come back when you can talk reasonably and respectfully about things.

[sparrow.2]

Originally Posted by Metla http://www.oople.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=85788#post85788)
Grab yourself a motocross bike, Ride around an MX track for an hour at race speed.

Then do the same in a warehouse.

Oh wait, you could go all day in a warehouse,.... and collapse from exhaustion within 15 minutes on an MX track.I don't think he quite realizes what indoor tracks look like. I find carpet has way more grip and the edges of the track are usually harder too. Basically indoor is a hell of a lot harder on the car than dirt will ever be.

@ Metla: If you really want the warehouse approach, try comparing motocross and supercross... At least that would make some sense :D


it would be nice to have some dirt tracks over here with big well-sclupted jumpsSuppose you always want what you don't have... I'd love to race on more grass or astroturf tracks in Germany :)

[terry.sc]

The abilities of the chassis and box standard gear isn't exactly being pushed to its limits on an indoor track, Or on grass.

Here's some of Jimmys photos to show just what we run on, most of our tracks are multisurface.

Indoors - surface usually a mix of high grip carpet (which puts a lot of stress on the buggy) and very low grip wood or plastic
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/southportgp2008/
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/worksop251107/

Outdoors
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/oswestry2007national/4wd/
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/stotfoldnational2007/2wd/

aye?
Don't you guys have dirt tracks over there?
Why we don't have dirt tracks
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/kidderminsternational2007/kid130507/
We don't go home when it rains or we'd never race.

[Spoolio]

I know I'm being lazy but what are the size of the balls? Want to get some kanzen ones to put in my oneway (and rear diff too I suppose).

Cheers

According to the manual they're 3mm. I've ordered some from Kanzen but they are taking forever to arrive, its been 11 days so far. Its a bit of a bugger that they come in packs of 10 'cos you end up with 6 spare. Have decided to build it with the kit bearings and change over when they wear out - hopefully the slipper will minimise the wear.

[Metla]

I don't even know what you're talking about but I did notice you changed your argument from testing cars, to testing drivers.

I can see that , But no, I haven't changed my argument, It just went over yours and it seems everyone else's head. Using a person as an example was to demonstrate the extra stress applied when on a rough environment that changes with use, Your dead level static surfaces are sanitized in comparison. The harder the conditions, The harder every component must work (not tires as such, But the entire chassis and everything attached to it) The harder the components are working, The sooner their limits are reached, Hence my view that the shocks are worthless, and others saying they are fine.

Furthermore, I don't think your review was flawed at all, I think it reflects the conditions you tested it under, And that would be the case for every review done by any person on any gear.

Anyway, I"m finished with the subject.

[PaulRotheram]

Good, have a nice day :)

[Carlos69]

I got these from Precision RC....ceramic thrust bearings...pre assembled
http://www.precisionrc.com/nv/car/product/details.is?cat_id=&product_id=53980
they also do a dozen 3mm ceramic ball sets....

[General Accident]

Hi, apologies if this has been touched on before but I am screwing my DB01 together now and wondered whether to stick with the kit spur or use an Associated 87t one I have in my spares box. I will be running with a 7.5T brushless motor.

[wayneski]

So jimmy, how did it go?
Was at kiddy again today. Boucing quite a bit at the rear so I think it's time to try the 501 shocks.
Met Simon from stoke there (says he knows you) Jeee suus can that man drive!
Embarrassed by my ineptitude doesn't quite cover it. Top fella though.
Is there a guide or a faq somewhere that will explain to me in words of 1 syllable or less the ins and outs of setting up suspension? Like what the differences are between the inner and outer holes on the shock mounts? How thicker oil will affect steering/traction? That kind of thing.
Basically an idiots guide for a............ beginner:)

[werner1619]

Hi,

Some good info here: http://users.pandora.be/elvo/
Hope you enjoy reading...
Take it slow, make sure you understand what is explained in each section before moving on to the next section...

W.
:)

[wayneski]

thank you sir. Slow is definitely my default setting!

[werner1619]

hehehe, don't worry mine tooo

[Northy]

Jimmy's Burga went ACE today! :D

[jimmy]

So jimmy, how did it go?
Was at kiddy again today. Boucing quite a bit at the rear so I think it's time to try the 501 shocks.
Met Simon from stoke there (says he knows you) Jeee suus can that man drive!
Embarrassed by my ineptitude doesn't quite cover it. Top fella though.
Is there a guide or a faq somewhere that will explain to me in words of 1 syllable or less the ins and outs of setting up suspension? Like what the differences are between the inner and outer holes on the shock mounts? How thicker oil will affect steering/traction? That kind of thing.
Basically an idiots guide for a............ beginner:)


good! I was getting used to the track and the car but I went faster every round. I was in a low qualifier because I race north west now - so I was having to lap some cars and they weren't making it easy. I won all my qualifiers and qualified C6 - I think there were 8 heats of 4WD. I wasn't over joyed and wanted the B final but there was a lot of good racing and the times were close. Had the usual mare in the final - ended up last but fought back to the leaders and finished 3rd, 2 seconds behind the winner.

The car was ace - there were some 501X drivers there (and plenty of others) who were shocked how good it was. Stu Wood took a little video of one of the qualifiers so I'll put that up as soon as I can find the lead for the camera. :)
but yeah, over all the track was awesome and really fun to drive - the 'hop ups' I had on the car certainly helped - shocks - slipper - one way diff.

I was also running the new 501X/DB01 front wheels for the first time - the white ones. They are a really tight fit on the hexes - indeed you can't even put them on the hex by hand. I had to carefully tighten the nut in order to push the wheel on - so the hex is a lot tighter and less prone to stripping out with a one-way diff, which I've experienced a few times with the 501X and also happened at Southport last weekend on the Durga.

[Spoolio]

Anybody done a gear chart yet? I notice that the kit spur/pulley combo (91T/37T) is different to the 501X so wasn't sure how to interpret the chart thats already been posted. Is the 87T spur recommended?

[General Accident]

Yes, you will need 2 x 950 bearings.

950 means 9mm outside diameter x 5mm inside diameter.

Can anyone advise where I can get some? I can't find any on ebay which is usually my first stop for stuff like this. Ta.

[AaronR]

Anybody done a gear chart yet? I notice that the kit spur/pulley combo (91T/37T) is different to the 501X so wasn't sure how to interpret the chart thats already been posted. Is the 87T spur recommended?

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/cars/501x/db01-501xworlds-gearchart.pdf

[jimmy]

Anybody done a gear chart yet? I notice that the kit spur/pulley combo (91T/37T) is different to the 501X so wasn't sure how to interpret the chart thats already been posted. Is the 87T spur recommended?

Yes, I made one for the db01 / 501X worlds

I am using the 91T spur - I am not sure if the 96 will fit the Durga so I didn't indicate that it does on the chart - if someone can confirm it does then I'll change the chart.

The chart is on this page:

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/cars/501x/ (http://www.oople.com/forums/../rc/photos/cars/501x/)


edit: oop, thanks Aaron- you're too quick for me! :)

[DCM]

Can anyone advise where I can get some? I can't find any on ebay which is usually my first stop for stuff like this. Ta.

www.fusionhobbies.com

[Toonz]

i want to use the DF-03 trf shocks on the durga.

what is the proper shock length for the front and rear?:)

[jimmy]

The rear shocks will likely be too long - you can put spacers inside to limit droop but I'm not certain they will fully compress. They are nice shocks but the pistons supplied aren't a big improvement on the kit shocks - I found it hard to get the desired damping.


Just for werner - I put up a little clip of the Durga review car in action yesterday at York indoor regional. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaTxt7nUt2I

[Nyna]

Although I am not Werner I have dared to watch the video on YouTube. That thing is a really sweet runner. Very nice and smooth. I really hope to win this.

[Northy]

The car really does perform just as well as cars that cost over 4 times the price, it was going really well yesterday on our simple track :p

G

[Eddie168]

Mine Durga not going very well for me, the rear arm keeps on popin out it happened last week and this week as well although i already put shims in it to make it stronger, i was starting 2nd in the final and soon as the race starts someone just hit at the back of my durga then the whole thing poped out. i broke one of the black plastic ball connector thing that link with the suspension arm. Any have any idea how to slove this problem? :(

[DCM]

once the alloy rear suspension mounts are out from 3Racing, that will solve it Eddie.

501X shocks, you need to put at least 3mm of limiters in the rear shocks to stop popping of rear driveshafts.

[jimmy]

Where you get that DCM? I was running 501X dampers with zero limiters in that video?

[mrbiccies]

Thought I would post a piccy of my Durga along side my Touring car....
It has the Titanium screws, carbon shock towers, front one way and slipper clutch. Waiting for the postman to deliver the CVD's, still trying to source some 501X dampers :confused: so have fitted my DF03 ones as a temporary measure for now.

[DCM]

I put some 501X cvd's on the rear (ok, they are yeah racing ones) and on full droop, the cvd's would pop out of the outdrive.

[jimmy]

oh right, I am using the dogbones all round still and theres plenty (and plenty) of room left. I haven't tried the 501X CVD's on the Durga, but I have tried them on the 501X (jokes!)
I wonder if the shafts you mention are actually a bit short? Maybe I will try the 501X ones on my Durga if I find the time, just to make sure.

[DCM]

thats what I am wondering, might have to get myself some TRF shafts me thinks....

[bender]

I run my 501x shocks and cvds on my durga and as DCM said, at the rear, if you use the middle hole in the suspension arm - then you do need to add some internal spacers.

I am running mine at 2.5mm inside the rear shocks but only 0.5mm in the front.

[jimmy]

we thinking the shock tower is marginally lower on the Durga then?

[Mutant]

with the standard TRF springs that come in the damper bag, even with the spring retainers fully wound up, and the shocks lying down (top, inner bottom,outer) i still cannot get the rear low enough. Just managed paralell with the soft TRF springs. I'm guessing that this is because the durga shock towers are a little lower than my 501.

[A.J. Gee]

nice job with the Durga video that was added on youtube about 22 hours ago. I also wanted to mention that i was very happy to see Radio Control Car Action magazine do a review on the DB-01 buggy. The writers for the review were spot on, as they mentioned about the screws being tough to thread the plastic. They also mentioned the error that was made in the manual about flipping the diffs when putting the thrust bearing and screw in the short side of the out drive rather than the long out drive.
The section where they have plus and minus about the car is as follows. the pluses (+). -Tamiya Racing Factory performance for hundreds less than the 501x. -Well balanced chassis, slick belt drive. -Accepts Losi X-series and associated B44 wheels. -Future-tech styling. The minuses (-) -Front universals would be nice. -Tight fitting screws are tough on the wrist.
Another part of the article includes to say. " The Durga isn't a first time drivers (or kit builders) best choice for a play buggy (go for Tamiyas DF-03 or DF-02 buggies instead), but for performance-minded drivers with a little experience, the Durga is responsive, reliable, raceable car with Tamiya Racing Factory DNA.
Hey Jimmy: If you feel that i may be endangered for plagiarism, as i did quote part of the article word for word, please delete it immediately. Thanks



A.J.

[Toonz]

which issue of the magazine did the review? i'm going to get it.....

[A.J. Gee]

March 2008

[Toonz]

great! thanks:)

[Toonz]

i'm going to watch the video tonight..... stupid company blocks the youtube site!

jimmy i notice that you use the peak vantage quite often. is that your favourite motor?:D how fast are they actually? like the amount of rpm?

[bender]

we thinking the shock tower is marginally lower on the Durga then?

I just did a quick comparison between my 501 and Durga, and yes, the rear shock mount is about 3mm lower when measures from the suspension hinge pin.

I didn't measure the front as this doesn't appear any different.

I'd like to see some shorter rear springs for the car. With 501 shocks on it (with the extra internal limiting) it is difficult to get the rear ride height right, even with the spring retaining nut unscrewed all the way (using AE green springs).

[Toonz]

just something to share here about the shock length....

i bought a recent japan rc magazine and it features satoshi maezumi's setting on the durga using 501X shocks.

rear shock length 103mm (soft 501 spring)
front shock length 83mm (medium 501 spring)

mounting position is according to instruction for all shocks.

ride height:
front 23mm
rear 24mm (with 1mm suspension spacer mounted in the suspension mount)

has anyone try it ?:)

[jimmy]

i'm going to watch the video tonight..... stupid company blocks the youtube site!

jimmy i notice that you use the peak vantage quite often. is that your favourite motor?:D how fast are they actually? like the amount of rpm?

Yeah I've been running them for years, quick and long-lasting so I don't have to be doing any of that pesky maintenance stuff during a race day and can just take photos instead. I've got a 10x4, 11x1, 12x1 and 14x2.
Can't tell you how quick they are really compared to something else - I've no idea, I just like them. :)

[jimmy]

Bender, I didn't really notice the rear of my car sitting that high to be honest - I've got the collars unwound all the way - much like I do on my 501X I guess. Using siver AE springs the rear is pretty much where I want it. I get a LOT of droop but no problem I guess unless you're using the CVD's. To be honest the shocks are straight off my 501X with absolutely no changes - I just wanted to put on shocks I knew worked but I didn't really consider the tower might be slightly lower.:wtf:

[Toonz]

Yeah I've been running them for years, quick and long-lasting so I don't have to be doing any of that pesky maintenance stuff during a race day and can just take photos instead. I've got a 10x4, 11x1, 12x1 and 14x2.
Can't tell you how quick they are really compared to something else - I've no idea, I just like them. :)

maybe i should look into this brand...:) where can i find them?
does it have 19 and 23turns?
how long do the brushes last? do i have to change brushes for every 5-10 runs? i've to change brushes on those tamiya bz quite often and i hate it....:eh?:

[Eddie168]

Hi everyone just wondering i broke one of the suspension ball on my durga, still looking for some parts and just wondering will the metal one that comes with the TRF501X will fit on my durga? and where i can get them? THX

[jimmy]

maybe i should look into this brand...:) where can i find them?
does it have 19 and 23turns?
how long do the brushes last? do i have to change brushes for every 5-10 runs? i've to change brushes on those tamiya bz quite often and i hate it....:eh?:

Not sure about 23, but I have a 19 spec motor also. Not 100% sure they are still making the 19 turn in this style 'revolution' motor any longer? but I used it plenty of times, and raced at Nationals with it. It loses out a little on the straight as you'd imagine but everywhere else it's smooth and powerful. I usually did a few meetings before even looking at it - but im lazy:)

[drinternat]

Is the Radio Control Car Action mag only available in the states. Ive never seen it here?

[jimmy]

It's imported by comag I think and you can get it in some WHSmiths and other news agents. To be already in print they must have reviewed it long before I did? :eh?:

[sosidge]

I do have a little something up my sleeve to resolve the travel issues with 501X shocks... and a little bit more besides... needs to be tested first though...

[peetbee]

I've bought it in WHSmiths a few times, but the March edition already?!! The Feb edition has only just hit the shelves over here.
At least your review was available first though Jimmy.

[gargadud]

Hi everyone just wondering i broke one of the suspension ball on my durga, still looking for some parts and just wondering will the metal one that comes with the TRF501X will fit on my durga? and where i can get them? THX

Yes they fit even so they are slightly longer then the plastic one! I had the same doubt a while ago and jimmy's advice was helpful!

Bought it from Tamiyashop in Switzerland.

[wayneski]

Yes they fit even so they are slightly longer then the plastic one! I had the same doubt a while ago and jimmy's advice was helpful!

Bought it from Tamiyashop in Switzerland.

Are talking about the little ball that sits on the end of the hinge pin that goes into a plastic block which is screwed to the main chassis?
If so are the 501x ones metal? How about the little block?
I heard that yeaah racing(?) may be bringing some metal versions of these out but can't find any.
I've popped the front one a couple times now (when I've been stupid) so looking to upgrade
Sorry if I've hijacked

[Toonz]

saw your durga video jimmy and i go WOW WOW WOW all the time! awesome!

[ralphee]

Nice vid, jumps quite well frmm what i can see, ill get to doing my first off road meet soon i hope, would like to go indoor so im guessing Dudley as im in Bham?
There are some new Vids on there from Japan too, nice racing and lots of abuse going on lol.

lee

[jimmy]

yeah it jumps well, it's a very stable and predictable car - better if you have the diff in. on the big table top it was hard to get the nose down with the one-way in the front, but that was the same for any car.

[ralphee]

Stable and predictable sound good to me, not raced for around 6 years or so and all that was on flat with gas and 1/10 touring, couple that with the fact ive switched to a steerwheel, im starting out way fresh lol...must get the other diff built and in the pit box i reckon lol!

lee

[sosidge]

Has anyone succeeded in building up some 501X shocks from spare parts yet? Are the parts easily available or are they something that will be "ordered in" and never appear?

Or has anyone heard a solid date for the 54028 hop up shocks?

The CVA's work but I think they are starting to hold me back now in terms of setup, also they are swiftly headed for the knackers yard, the wobble and wear on them already is pretty impressive!

I softened the oil in the rear to #600 with the kit pistons, the damping is now more similar to the front which helps, although the car is still VERY underdamped on jumps due to the total absence of pack.

Did some experimenting setup-wise today on the slippy floor at Jarrow and the one-way lapped faster than the diff even though I was less confident with it.

I also did some running with the anti-roll bars on the back and liked it, it actually increased rear grip with the yellow bar which suggests the rear end was over-rolling in the corners without, so a much nicer balance. The blue bar had more steering but was maybe a little bit edgier over the jumps.

In case anyone wondered the 501 bars are the following diameters - Red/0.8mm, Yellow/1.0mm, Blue/1.2mm. Red seems far too soft to have any effect although I did not actually test it on the car.

Still a lot more tweaking to do, still haven't got the car the way I want it, but learning more about it every meeting!

[DCM]

I got my shocks built up from the list far earlier in the thread, but you would need to also buy a TRF shock rebuild kit.

[jimmy]

I built some 501X shocks from parts - I got the shock pack from RC CHAMP but it doesn't come with the plastic parts, springs (as far as I can remember) or seals (again, from memory) or pistons.
I had the plastic parts tree and the pistons, which also contains the spacers - and I had the seals. The only thing that none of this stuff comes with is the tiny 0.2mm shim that nestles next to the piston. There might be some left over from the durga kit (im not sure) but I built mine for my 501X before the durga, so I had to nick the spacers from Isherwood.
I think you can maybe get away without using them, but theres a hint of piston movement then I guess.

If you want to improve the car then the shocks are a good help if you're bouncing off the performance ceiling that is the CVA dampers. Any sort of hard landing or rough terrain will be just smoother and of course the car won't bottom out.
I'd like to have tried the antiroll bars last weekend but I didn't really spend any time on the car at all - it was great and I just spent time driving it quicker and quicker each round.

[jimmy]

I got my shocks built up from the list far earlier in the thread, but you would need to also buy a TRF shock rebuild kit.

sorry did you buy the seperate damper bodies and all the bits seperate? my 'shock kit' came with all the large orings etc. I've not seen this 'TRF shock rebuild kit' that's all.

[DCM]

the bits that the guy from the Tamiya shop was selling had everything except the piston guides.

[DCM]

it is the shock rebuild kit, the same for the touring cars Jim.

[jimmy]

ahh, the piston guides come with the pistons?

[DCM]

no, they come with the shock seals in the rebuild kit.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=53574

[Eddie168]

anyone know will the Tamiya TRF501X Aluminum Front and Rear Upright fits on the durga?

[jimmy]

The rear should fit without problem, the front should also but I'm not 100% on that since the dogbone style shafts might catch, just a guess but I'd have to test fit it before saying yes.

[Eddie168]

Also what is the size of the suspension ball (A2) that comes with the durga? i broke ine the other day and still lookinf for parts

[Sensory Overload]

anyone know will the Tamiya TRF501X Aluminum Front and Rear Upright fits on the durga?

Fitted the alloy front and rear uprights from the 501x - no problem. Helped to dial in the car using the needed roll center. I am however using the 501x CVDs so I'm not 100% on the standard dog bones. They should fit. I did however need to shim the axle/bearing areas to reduce the play in the rear alloy upright. With that said - so far so good!

Side note - Great review Jimmy. Stripped the same screws!!

[Eddie168]

Can anyone show me the page with the part list for building the 501x shocks plz? also anyone used the hard case 5000MAH lipo that you could get from demon power? are they any good?

[wayneski]

501x shock parts

x1 V Parts: 51280 (includes 2)
x1 W Parts: 51281 (includes 2)
x1 X Parts: 51282 (includes 2)
x1 Damper Parts Bag: 9404701

May take at bit of hunting around as they are as rare as the proverbial rocking horse .... Speshally the damper parts bag. Got mine from Champ and stella.
Seen some similar hard case lipos on the bay for around 45 quid. Not got one (yet) though, mines fast enough with the mamba on plain old NiMh (3700's).Although that didn't stop me from strapping a 3s from my Trex into it to see how she went!!!!!

[A.J. Gee]

Can anyone tell me how tight my rear Diff should be on the Durga? I thought i had the whole "differential" thing down to a science, but i noticed while spinning my rear wheels by hand, that one of the wheels would stutter and then eventually start spinning again. Is my problem the Diff being too tight or too loose? I was wondering if anyone could recomend how many turns i should go from the tightest point that the diff can be tightened. Such as 3 turns from the tightest point. Thanks Guys.



A.J.

[Sensory Overload]

Need some help. I have a Tamyia spec racing coming up and am running the DB01 w/the 501 alloy, cvd and DF03 shocks. Note I can only use the Tamiya parts i.e. tires, inserts etc...The first race is being held on an indoor carpet track (www.fastcats.ca (http://www.fastcats.ca))

Anyone one have a base set up??

I ran it last night. Had no rear traction on corner entry (felt more like a flat spin). Added a front sway bar and maxed out the roll center adjustments!!

Help would be great!! Donavan

[jimmy]

hmmmmmm, where are you getting all that steering from? The DF03 shocks aren't the best, but perhaps I'd look at tuning those before anything else since it's the only majoy handling thing you've changed from the kit setup - which I raced twice and didn't find the same (oversteer)?
the steering wasn't terrible but I really wanted a one-way to get the car to turn enough.

Maybe try going to a harder oil / piston / spring in the front? The supplied df03 hopup shock pistons aren't ideal - I ended up putting in 501X shafts so I could use 501X pistons, which was a load better (this was on a DF03).

Shame you have to use Tamiya tyres but they aren't too bad. You'd probably easily put in another lap or two just by going to schumacher tyres.

[DCM]

reet, I got some experience with the DF03 shocks and the trick is, staying within the Tamiya parts bin, is to use three hole touring car pistons in the rear with two hole up front. What is happening with your car, as there is very little damping, the car is dropping on it's nose when you brake or throttle off, making the rear very loose.

Try two hole 40wt front and three hole 35 or 40wt oil in the rear. Also if you can, go back to the kit springs.q

[Eddie168]

Got my Demon power products 5000MAH LIPO today it doesn't look attractive as the orion ones lol gonna charge them up tonight and give a little blast tmr and see what happens:D

[Sensory Overload]

hmmmmmm, where are you getting all that steering from? The DF03 shocks aren't the best, but perhaps I'd look at tuning those before anything else since it's the only majoy handling thing you've changed from the kit setup - which I raced twice and didn't find the same (oversteer)?
the steering wasn't terrible but I really wanted a one-way to get the car to turn enough.

Maybe try going to a harder oil / piston / spring in the front? The supplied df03 hopup shock pistons aren't ideal - I ended up putting in 501X shafts so I could use 501X pistons, which was a load better (this was on a DF03).

Shame you have to use Tamiya tyres but they aren't too bad. You'd probably easily put in another lap or two just by going to schumacher tyres.

Thanks Jimmy (great site by the way!) Funny think is that I'm running 50wt/DF03 2 hole piston w/gold springs in the front followed by 40wt/Df03 2 hole using the std gun metal spring from the DF03 kit. Should I still go higher??? Not using a oneway - yet. I'm also using the 501x alloy uprights to fine tune roll center and arm lenght. Will the losi or associated springs work?? what about trimming the outer edges of the front tires. the TCS Tamiya rolls may allow it.

[DCM]

Overload, I post above a setup for you, keep all the shock positions and camberlink positions as kit for now and run the shocks as stated above. The kit pistons are about as useful as a chocolate saucepan......

[Sensory Overload]

Overload, I post above a setup for you, keep all the shock positions and camberlink positions as kit for now and run the shocks as stated above. The kit pistons are about as useful as a chocolate saucepan......

Thanks DCM, i'll give it a try.

[A.J. Gee]

Can anyone tell me how tight my rear Diff should be on the Durga? I thought i had the whole "differential" thing down to a science, but i noticed while spinning my rear wheels by hand, that one of the wheels would stutter and then eventually start spinning again. Is my problem the Diff being too tight or too loose? I was wondering if anyone could recomend how many turns i should go from the tightest point that the diff can be tightened. Such as 3 turns from the tightest point. Thanks Guys.



A.J.


Can anyone help me please?

[DCM]

I did post how to set the diff up earlier in this thread.

Take spur gear cover off.

Hold both rear wheels and try to turn the spur, if it turns, tighten diff 1/4 turn at a time till you can't turn the spur.... then turn an extra 1/8th a turn.

If your rear diff keeps loosening, did you glue the diff plates to the plastic holders, check to see if they are still glued.... replae the diff srew and nut.

[A.J. Gee]

Thank you very much my friend. I greatly appreciate your tome. And yes you are correct about already posing information on the DIFF. thanks again.




A.J.

[Sensory Overload]

Overload, I post above a setup for you, keep all the shock positions and camberlink positions as kit for now and run the shocks as stated above. The kit pistons are about as useful as a chocolate saucepan......

DCM/Jimmy I took a closer look at the rear end and found what I think is the problem - oversteer/corner entry. I'll post some pics shortly but I found that the rear suspension was hitting the rear of the chassis on compression. There just wasn't enough travel from the rear dampers off throttle into a high speed corner (DCM's post got me thinking - thanks you where spot on!!) Since the Tamiya Spec class disallows any mods of the chassis, I first add the the anti squat shims that are includes in the kit to the rear A12 suspension blocks. It seemed to work but wasn't happy with the arm angle as it took almost 2-2.5mm to provide the needed room. I solved the problem by moving the suspension arms as far back as possible using the shims towards the front v.s. the rear. Simple fix!! I'm running some practice laps tomorrow and will keep everyone posted. Thanks DCM/Jimmy for the input. SO

[wayneski]

Eddie,

Where did you get it from?

[DCM]

overload, I run mine kit except shocks and a slipper and have none of your problems, even on the kit shocks. I would return it back to the kit shocks and suspension setup and try again, the DF03 shocks as they come out of the box, just don't cut it.

[Eddie168]

Eddie,

Where did you get it from?

i got it from www.demonpowerproducts.co.uk (http://www.demonpowerproducts.co.uk) ;)

[jimmy]

overload, I run mine kit except shocks and a slipper and have none of your problems, even on the kit shocks. I would return it back to the kit shocks and suspension setup and try again, the DF03 shocks as they come out of the box, just don't cut it.

I'd second that, the kit setup with no hop-ups sounds better than what you've been experiencing so far - it should be a very stable car.
I have my car on the longest wheelbase possible - I think that is the kit setup?

[josh_smaxx]

I'd second that, the kit setup with no hop-ups sounds better than what you've been experiencing so far - it should be a very stable car.
I have my car on the longest wheelbase possible - I think that is the kit setup?

Watching yours go round York in the video (unfortunately i didnt see it in the flesh, must have missed it) it seemed incredably stable, looked great i thought, definately gonna be a quick car.

[Sensory Overload]

Well don't I feel like an idiot! I took your advise (DCM/Jimmy) and took a second look at the Durga build manual. It looks like I incorrectly installed the rear arms to there shortest wheelbase position rather than then the longest. This explains the lack of dampening in the rear. The arms in the shortest position where hitting the backside of the chassis halfway through there compression. I also added the Tamiya touring car pistons F2/R3 using the 40/35wt oil - :thumbsup: 100 times better. Thanks for all your help. SO

[Toonz]

what is the recommended shock length for DF03 shocks?

[Metla]

reet, I got some experience with the DF03 shocks and the trick is, staying within the Tamiya parts bin, is to use three hole touring car pistons in the rear with two hole up front.

Does anyone have an item number for these pistons?

Trying to make sure I order the right ones.

EDIT- I ordered #53573 and #53572 They look to be correct.

[DCM]

thats the right ones, and you need to be between 30 and 40wt oils for the shocks, but it does work.

[Metla]

thats the right ones, and you need to be between 30 and 40wt oils for the shocks, but it does work.

Thanks for that, For the price of the pistons it has to be worth it.

[Toonz]

dcm, im using this setup on the df03 shocks (of cos using the trf piston)

F:3hole + 40wt df03 gold spring
R:3hole + 30wt df03 black spring

is it ok?

i'm going to participate in a race running on ashalpt mix with carpet and about a metre jump. do i need to strengthen the shocks in any way? 2hole? thicker oil? df03 silver spring? do i need to shorten the shocks?

so many questions....:confused:

but thanks:D

[psuar]

Hi guys,

Ive been runnig my Durga for 3 weeks on a large 1/8 gas track. And I must say the Buggy is absolutely awesome!

With a Mamba Max 7700 I did better lap times than with my 1/8 buggy, even with stock setup.

As many of you I started with the crappy DF03, spending a lot of money in hop ups and always broking something...

With the Durga its a different story, just bought the slipper and 3 weeks later, a big jump track and nothing broked.

I have friends, who usually only run gas cars, very enthusiastic about the buggy so we are planning to start a 4WD EP buggy class.

I found if you cut a little opening in the body you could have a buggy heatsink in the fresh air, mine is a small heatsink for tamiya M-chasis.

Also I must say thanks for all the info posted in this great forum.

bye!!

[budgio]

Glad you like it :)

As for the DF-03 being crappy.....i have to disagree :D

I did 5 heats round the Coventry track today running a 19 turn and broke nothing,It handled very well and finished a respectable 5th in the B final.

But now i have a Durga and a ZX-5 to concentrate on one of my DF-03,s will have to go...........

Its a great car to get into the swing of things and it has served me well.

[DCM]

dcm, im using this setup on the df03 shocks (of cos using the trf piston)

F:3hole + 40wt df03 gold spring
R:3hole + 30wt df03 black spring

is it ok?

i'm going to participate in a race running on ashalpt mix with carpet and about a metre jump. do i need to strengthen the shocks in any way? 2hole? thicker oil? df03 silver spring? do i need to shorten the shocks?

so many questions....:confused:

but thanks:D

F = 2 hole +40wt
R = 3 Hole +35wt (or maybe 40wt if needed)

[Toonz]

thanks dcm!:D

[sim]

Toonz,
Are you racing in the Singapore TAC qualifiers?

[Toonz]

i've put my name down for the buggy class but i've got to try out how this db01 will react with the sport tuned+17 pinion (limited only to this gearing due to the restricted motor:( ). if i like the feel of it, then i will take part. otherwise i may have second thought....:eh?:

are u taking part too?

[sim]

I'll be in the Malaysian qualifiers.
Will be running a DF-03 Dark Impact, at least for first few rounds. Don't have a Durga but either chassis will do fine for TAC, I think.

Good luck with yours. If you are limited to 17T pinion, it's going to be very slow. Maybe you can use the longer pinions but flip them around. Whatever the case, I'm sure they will do something about the rules so that the DB-01 can compete fairly.

[Toonz]

the longer pinion won't fit at all on a sport tuned unless you use a hotter motor with a longer motor shaft.

that's also why this kit comes with a short 17pinion to accomodate the silver can and sports tuned. hence TAC singapore will also limit the df03 ratio...

i do wish the dirt tuned could be used if they want to race stock cos it can be geared up to use the 23pinion......

well..i will try out the sport tuned myself first before i set my heart on it if not i will take part in the m-chassis or use the DT02 for the buggy class. we allow 2wd here too :)

hey, good luck to you too! have fun!

[dewil]

It would be fun to see more pics of the Durga. The car is about as cool as they get so please post pics of yours!:thumbsup:

[Vin]

Well here's a pic of mine.. Hopefully I'll finish the chassis next weekend.

http://foto.modelbouwforum.nl/albums/userpics/11306/Durga10.jpg

I need to regroup the red foam circles (BM13) because now it seems like the dogbone could pop out easily.

I'm using DF03 Shocks with the DF03 white spring set.

[jimmy]

The DF03 shocks are longer than the 501X ones - so you'll certainly have too much droop there but just make sure they fully compress also (so the chassis will touch the ground)
I limited the droop in my 501X shocks to get the car to rotate more

[Vin]

The DF03 shocks are longer than the 501X ones - so you'll certainly have too much droop there but just make sure they fully compress also (so the chassis will touch the ground)
I limited the droop in my 501X shocks to get the car to rotate more

Thanks for the advice Jimmy, correct me if I'm wrong, but with limiting the droop you mean I should put some O-rings on the shaft under the piston inside the shocks body right? How many O-rings would you recommend?

[General Accident]

Just finished my Durga BUT have a problem (I think):confused:. I am running it stock as per the build manual with a black can Sport Tuned (17T pinion) just to bed everything in. I have the slipper clutch - set to 3mm - and have shimmed the layshaft to get rid of the end float. All the screws are tight and the pinion/spur mesh is set to give a tiny bit of play the same as I have always run my RC10 B4. The 'problem' is that the drivetrain sounds like someone has thrown a load of gravel in it - it feels OK vibration wise but the best way I can describe it is like a straight-cut car gearbox, ie loud and rough:thumbdown:. Is this normal?

I am running Tamiya CVD's front and rear and they are OK, no play etc.

Jimmy's didn't seem to make any noise at all on Sunday and I am now worried that it'll rip itself to bits when I put the brushless in it.

[DCM]

it is the naff pinion from Tamiya on a not as good as a B4 spur gear, tis all, and then you put it in a tunnel and it amplifies it!

Limiting shocks, use the spacers on one of the sprue's (don't ask which one, can't remember)

[Sensory Overload]

It would be fun to see more pics of the Durga. The car is about as cool as they get so please post pics of yours!:thumbsup:

Here's mine. It's build for a local Tamiya Spec race. Black can and Tamiya Hop-ups only. That includes the tires!
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2276.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2276.jpg) http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2275.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2275.jpg) http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2274.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2274.jpg) http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2273.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2273.jpg) http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2271.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2271.jpg) http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/th_IMG_2270.jpg (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c340/sensoryoverloadca/IMG_2270.jpg)

[jimmy]

it's got all the hop ups! lol - let us know how it goes. I've never considered the anti roll bars, are they from the 501X ?

[Sensory Overload]

it's got all the hop ups! lol - let us know how it goes. I've never considered the anti roll bars, are they from the 501X ?

Between the spec Tamiya racing (called Baja 2) I hope to run my LRP/Orion 5.5 combo. The arms, CVD's, alloy upright where all spares from a 501x I used to own. Sold it to South Africa from Canada!

The sway bars are indeed from the 501x. They work really well. I starting using them due to the lack of roll center adjustments on the stock uprights. I am however using a few of the larger bars in the front from the TA05 - blue and yellow. The traction in the rear with the spec tires just doesn't cut it (much rather my yellow pins - lol). I followed DCM suggestion on using the touring car pistons and heavier oils. It helped enough to reduce the front bar down to yellow and the thinnest 501x bar in the rear. I'm also running the 36t pulley in the front as it seems to help pull me through the corner. First race is Feb 9. Wish me luck. SO

[Sensory Overload]

P.S. Jimmy, how did I do on the paint job??? Just need some oople stickers to make it perfect

[A.J. Gee]

Does anyone know what the hold up is on the TRF buggy dampers that are supposed to be released for the DB-01? Maybe im just being impatient, but its been a good two months now that the buggy has been available. What is Tamiya doing, trying to make us go out and buy another companys product or something? I know for sure that im not going to buy the 3racing dampers, although i do have the front and rear shock towers, which i am very pleased with the quality.

[Toonz]

and the CVDs as well....when are they coming?:eh?:

[dflament]

CVDs are already on ebay, i know cause i bought them couple of days ago ;) and for the trf dampers ... i heard somebody say it was gonna be released this february. not sure tough

[General Accident]

it is the naff pinion from Tamiya on a not as good as a B4 spur gear, tis all, and then you put it in a tunnel and it amplifies it!

Ahhhh, so if I put a Schumacher (or other third party) pinion on with the Tamiya spur things should calm down? Perhaps I ought to try the B4 spur too eh. Does anyone know if they go higher than 87t?

[sim]

Here's mine. It's build for a local Tamiya Spec race. Black can and Tamiya Hop-ups only. That includes the tires!


Are you limited to just the 17T pinion? Are other chassis allowed in that class? Thanks.

[dewil]

Nice pics Vin and Sensory-O! Keep em comming!:)

[sosidge]

What sort of ride height are you getting with those DF03 dampers? Looks pretty high in both those pics, I wonder whether the Black CVA dampers may actually handle better even if they don't have the "bling".

For my tastes the CVAs work OK over everything except the big jump landings and coming off tabletops off-power when they just bottom out. The actual handling balance and normal bump handling with them seems good.

I think I will also be waiting until the DB01 shock set comes out, can't be bothered with the hassle of trying to source the 501X spares as by the time I get them the #54028 will probably be released anyway!

[DCM]

I might just knock up a taller shock tower and be done with it me thinks....

[sosidge]

CVA Shocks

Scrub what I said above from the record.

I am totally fed up with them this evening!

No doubt it is the pistons to blame, but while the Durga suspension feels decent on the bench, it just isn't working right (for me at least) on the track.

Experimented with a front roll bar tonight - and ended up with MORE steering and a lot more stability too!

It's not supposed to be like this, so obviously the CVA dampers are allowing the car to roll far too much in the corners, creating loads of strange handling as the tyres unload and get extreme camber on them.

Had a quick blast with a friends 501X - same tyres (although newer), same sort of setup with one-way and camber, but it was SO much more secure on the track, must be the dampers. Hurry up #54028!!!

Otherwise had a nice evenings racing, thumbs are getting there, Durga will be soon enough!

[Sensory Overload]

Are you limited to just the 17T pinion? Are other chassis allowed in that class? Thanks.

There's no limit to the pinions. I'm currently running a 19/91 combo. Motor temp is warm to the touch. May come back down to the 17. As for classes there's a whole bunch. Classes include the 19t Baja 1, mini rally, tamtech's and wrc rally - all offroad!!

[Sensory Overload]

What sort of ride height are you getting with those DF03 dampers? Looks pretty high in both those pics, I wonder whether the Black CVA dampers may actually handle better even if they don't have the "bling".

I tried the stock shocks, there seemed okay, not great, but okay. My hobby shop is trying to source 501x parts but like yourself am having problems getting (in my case) shock bodies. So for now I went with the DF03 units. They're a bit better. Indeed the droop in the rear is huge. To help with the droop/weight transfer I added 3mm front and 5mm rear spacer under the pistons - for my carpet setup. The front and rear arms are level with the driveshaft just above. Overall the rear arms will hang some 7-8mm from this resting point. Car is starting to handle a lot better as the rear feels more and more planted. SO

[Toonz]

There's no limit to the pinions. I'm currently running a 19/91 combo. Motor temp is warm to the touch. May come back down to the 17. As for classes there's a whole bunch. Classes include the 19t Baja 1, mini rally, tamtech's and wrc rally - all offroad!!

how do you manage to fit in the 19pinion on the sport tuned?:eh?: i thought the short 17pinion in the kit was made for silvercan/sport tuned?

[Sensory Overload]

I wasn't aware of any length problems as I've only fitted the black can at this point. With that said my 48p losi pinions work fine.

[Toonz]

then i guess the 48p losi 19pinion should have the same height as the kit 17pinion. if you don't mind opening the motor cover to make a comparison:)

i really have no idea why tamiya isn't making shorter pinions for the black or motors with a shorter motor shaft:(

the rest of the hop-up pinions from 18-21 will not fit into silver/black can as they are longer which is also meant for longer shaft motors....

why tamiya why....................:eh?:

[sim]

All else being equal, longer pinions fit more precisely to the centre of the motor shaft. The long pinions were meant for the 501X. The 17T one is a one-off to make the Durga somewhat silvercan/blackcan compatible (although what a horrible ratio to have chosen for those motors).

[Toonz]

HPI has 15T silver can and it will fit the 17pinion good time:thumbsup:
just peel the sticker away and everyone will think that this is a mabuchi silver can:D....and the difference is.......just faster:lol:

[sim]

Hahaha. Running a HPI motor in the TAC. I think you will not only be disqualified, but will be caned in public. :lol:

[Toonz]

and then ban from the track for the rest of the year:lol:

[Vin]

I finished building the chassis today and I added some spacers to the DF03 Alu shocks. It all looks great now! I added 5mm to the rear.

Should the car be lower on the front or should the chassis be parallel to the ground?

[Sensory Overload]

I finished building the chassis today and I added some spacers to the DF03 Alu shocks. It all looks great now! I added 5mm to the rear.

Should the car be lower on the front or should the chassis be parallel to the ground?

Note that I'm using the 5mm (under the rear pistons) spacers to correct droop on a carpet setup. 3mm in the front seem to level out the car. cvd's are near/slightly above level. Car feels good. So

[Carlos69]

1 K post ..lol :woot: