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View Full Version : Who should decide the Venues for our National Championship


RudeTony
19-12-2010, 04:34 PM
This is a poll for the National Venues and not the dates.
Who should decide where we go?
Us as racers as paying customers and individuals or our BRCA Off Road committee and chairman?

The poll is subjest to a club requesting a National event and meets the criteria (obviously)

If for some reason you chose the 3rd option of other then explain otherwise everyones name will be hidden

Smartalec
19-12-2010, 04:36 PM
Where's the poll options Tony? :cry:

spenner
19-12-2010, 05:07 PM
I have gone for other for the following reasons:
If we (the racers) choose then there would be a stalemate, also it would be difficult to get all the results etc.

My idea would be to have a national venue committee, needs only to be 2 - 4 people. They could go through the venues who have applied and select. Maybe someone from north and south!!!

Cockerill
19-12-2010, 05:22 PM
I'd like to see a system where the drivers vote, on clubs that have been passed acceptable by the committee. So at the AGM any clubs applied will be deemed suitable. After this, drivers who completed the series last year (ie. 4 or more) can take part in an online vote for where they would like to go (and what tires to use). This vote would close by Dec 1st or something, and then the entry form can be published for January :)

MattW
19-12-2010, 05:25 PM
The touring car section decided a couple of years ago that it should be the people that go to the agm that decide on the venues.

Therefore - when the new rule proposals go out, there is also a track pack released with some info on each track. At the agm, there is a vote - and the 5 highest scored (5 nationals) get the gig. The committee then go away and sort dates.

Cockerill
19-12-2010, 05:28 PM
And for the North/South hater's, we've not exactly got a northern national series, more midlands (except Southport), which is fair for everyone!!

Remember we are a BRITISH series ;) How would you like a trip up to Bents Park in Newcastle? It'd make an excellent venue, good for public viewing, nice for bringing along spectators and a good nightlife!!!

RudeTony
19-12-2010, 05:32 PM
The other part is OK but still who to decide.
No good saying at the AGM as it's ALWAYS been up north - well over the past 25 years it has anyways.
And why the racers from before as new racers could decide (so long as the venue has passed the criteria)
i.e 80 drivers from the North will vote for Northern venues but 80 from the South - well it's obvious isn't it
More to the point, why should NON RACERS decide where we race??

dorris
19-12-2010, 05:40 PM
I vote other because in my experience there is a lot of 'you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours'. One way to avoid these 'mates agreements' is for a small independent body to do it.

mattJT
19-12-2010, 06:41 PM
Would it not be possible for a simple rotation between all clubs? furthermore that there is a comparative split between areas that have the most clubs, eg if there's more tracks up north than south then you have a 60/40 etc split, this way overtime all clubs will get their chance to host.

Or some kinda system like they do for the Olympics and other large sporting events, whereby clubs will make proposals/tenders/applications on why they should host the rounds and these are scrutinised by the brca or another type committee?

Benh
19-12-2010, 07:08 PM
Clubs who wish to host, put their bids into the corresponding regions and at their regions AGM a vote is cast. (If more than one club submits to host, the region votes in an order of preference)

Then every region gets to have at least one venue in their geo location.

In the event all seven regions submit a host club, then a vote is made at the Section AGM. In the event 5 or less regions submit, then there are spare slots. These too are voted on at the Section AGM from all the regions that submitted more than one host venue and in order of their "preference". (So all second choice venues would battle it out etc etc)

Could make the submission quite exciting too. If the South East were tactical and put TORCH in as their number 1 choice and a spare slot was availble, EPR could be 2nd choice and (based only on what I have read and no personal experience) much more likely to beat the second place submissions from the other regions (if they didn't submit tactically;)).

This method could also encourage investment in some regions in a bid to host. Not to mention raise the profile of 1:10 RC Off Road.

Obviously, all submissions would have to meet the "Host Criteria"

mikeyscott
19-12-2010, 08:12 PM
I was really hoping to do a few nationals in 2011, but with the distance being so far I won't be. I'll be support my region and club instead. Then maybe the F345s

As for how it's done, not sure what to suggest as I haven't attended a national yet. I would however sway away from drivers votes as the numbers wouldn't be fair. I.e. if 80% of the voters were from up north how is that fair on southern racers etc. and vice vercer.

DaveG28
19-12-2010, 08:29 PM
Guys, I can see a lot of good points both on this thread and the calendar one, but I really do think the north/south blinkers need to come off, it is NOT a Northern based series, it is more mid based. I live on the edge of midlands/north west, and of the 6 nationals, 2 are @3 hours south of me, 1@ 90 mins south, 1 is level, one @90 mins north and one 2 hours north. Oh, and the end of season events are 90 mins and 2 1/2 hours south of me too!!

I think someone based in Newcastle could make just as big a claim about it being Southern biased as you guys South of the Thames could about it being Northern based!

That said, it is a shame to lose EPR (is the reason the one stated, or more to do with the lack of layout options supposedly giving local advantage?), and I don't see why the AGM is in the same place every year (Oh, but please, Stoke isn't really Northern guys!)!

Jonesy
19-12-2010, 09:05 PM
I've voted for the Committee and the Chairman. I don't want to do the job, I've been doing Nationals for over 15 years and haven't had reason to complain about the decisions

If racers were to vote I bet I would never have raced in Kirkcaldy, Scotland at a National in the 1990s

I pay my TV License Fee but don't get to sort out the BBC TV Schedule

TheReferee
19-12-2010, 09:06 PM
it might help your poll if you knew who actually votes, this year there were 10 people in attendance but the chairman will only vote if there was a tie.
so we had
national timekeeper
national referee
secretary
south east regional rep
mid south rep
drivers rep
technical officer
north east rep
welsh rep

the above list included 4 national drivers. we had 7 clubs going for 6 places someone was going to miss out. you can change who votes, you can change how it is voted but one club will be disappointed. which club would you have disappointed?

Trish
19-12-2010, 09:10 PM
Stoke is north wen you live down here. There is a large portion of racers from this direction.

90mins is the shortest for me to get to and thats Stotfold at 100miles.
its 220miles to Southport, 200miles to ozwestry, 120 to kiddy, 110 to Talywain and 180miles to RHR.

Like I said on the Calender I dont mind driving to great venues but sometimes there a compromise?? Apart from Taly everything is north for myself and a large portion of fellow racers. I'm not moaning just saying what alot of us are thinking.

DCM
19-12-2010, 09:13 PM
Clubs to apply for a National, and must be accepted as long as they fulfil the criteria for holding a national.

Committee to set the dates for the Nationals.

Drivers who attended ALL the nationals to vote on venue's.

Clubs must then accept the dates offered.

Cockerill
19-12-2010, 09:30 PM
Stoke is north wen you live down here.

Its south from up here, but that doesn't make it southern :p

chris68nufc
19-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Northern National series? Really?
The closest National to me is RHR....about 2 and a half hours South!
Tally 6 hours,Southport 3 and a half....No need to go on!

Im really looking forward to next season whatever happens. I like the Bents Park option aswell!!

spenner
19-12-2010, 10:18 PM
it might help your poll if you knew who actually votes, this year there were 10 people in attendance but the chairman will only vote if there was a tie.
so we had
national timekeeper
national referee
secretary
south east regional rep
mid south rep
drivers rep
technical officer
north east rep
welsh rep

the above list included 4 national drivers. we had 7 clubs going for 6 places someone was going to miss out. you can change who votes, you can change how it is voted but one club will be disappointed. which club would you have disappointed?

Out of interest John, thought there was nine clubs??
I know we ( silverstone ) put in for a national as I sent it in.

But once again this will come up year after year unless someone thinks of a new way to do things. And puts it forward to agm....

Trish
19-12-2010, 10:18 PM
Again if you read what i am saying i don't mind traveling!

I am disapointed that EPR didn't get a meeting and they have put alot of work into this track and there has been a complete lack of recognition for them by the people voting.

TheReferee
19-12-2010, 10:42 PM
Out of interest John, thought there was nine clubs??
I know we ( silverstone ) put in for a national as I sent it in.

But once again this will come up year after year unless someone thinks of a new way to do things. And puts it forward to agm....

the EOS were chosen first and that left the six national events with seven clubs

spenner
19-12-2010, 10:51 PM
That makes sense now.... Although that is a strange way of doing things in my opinion.

TheReferee
19-12-2010, 11:04 PM
it doesn't really matter how we choose or what is chosen first, 6 from 7 or 8 from 9, one club will lose, and frankly if the racers want to vote, carry on. would it have made a difference?, not to one club, this year the 9 people voted and EPR lost, 120 could have voted and the result may have been the same or we could be discussing how scandalous that we are not going to wales/southport/kiddie etc.

Col
19-12-2010, 11:37 PM
it might help your poll if you knew who actually votes, this year there were 10 people in attendance but the chairman will only vote if there was a tie.
so we had
national timekeeper
national referee
secretary
south east regional rep
mid south rep
drivers rep
technical officer
north east rep
welsh rep

the above list included 4 national drivers. we had 7 clubs going for 6 places someone was going to miss out. you can change who votes, you can change how it is voted but one club will be disappointed. which club would you have disappointed?

Without knowing much about the national series (with not having done or likely to do one) how many regions are there? I see only 4 regions reps in the list when obviously there are more than that. Presumably the others couldn't be bothered to turn up or had other commitments (did the rep from EPR's region attend btw?)
Is it absolutely necessary to attend this meeting or could it be done in another way (such as conference call or similar) thereby meaning all reps could "be there" whilst in the comfort of their own homes? Would surely mean that a region doesn't get a say in what is happening (or not...) in their region in respect of nationals...

TheReferee
20-12-2010, 07:18 AM
the drivers rep is also from mid west and the secretary is east, and yes the epr rep was there. i will say again it doesnt matter who or how many vote, one club will lose out. you tell me which one shouldn't get a national and why.
its all very well criticising the 9 who turned up and voted about the decision they reached. but unless your willing to put your hand up and say which one you wouldnt want then what is this poll acheiving?.
i am quite happy to tell you who i voted for, or in reality which club i did not vote for and my reasons, are you prepared to do the same?. equally i am happy to stand on a freezing cold rostrum for 8 hours a day to refereee your races, the timekeeper is prepared to time your races for the same length of time. are any of you willing to do the same?. i can take any criticism you care to throw at me, i made a decision because i got off my arse, drove up to birmingham, sat in a meeting,listened to the facts and voted. you don't agree with the decision? then get off your arse and do something. alternatively sit behind your keyboard telling me i got it wrong without actually offering an alternative.

stuartw
20-12-2010, 08:48 AM
equally i am happy to stand on a freezing cold rostrum for 8 hours a day to refereee your races, the timekeeper is prepared to time your races for the same length of time. are any of you willing to do the same?.

Sorry, JC, i have to make a slight correction to your statement - for a National Weekend I spend at least 30 hours of my time in preparation during the week before , 12 hours each day booking in & timeing the event and preparing the results for publication for various websites/publications.

However, back to this Poll. In my view this Poll is pointless - why?
One of the Options is for the "the Racers as members of the BRCA" to decide.
In effect, as far as I am concerned, this already happens, as I spend time speaking to people during the season and getting their views on each meeting. Also we live in a Democracy, and I am an elected representative of the membership to act on their behalf, in what I believe to be their best interests.
How many of you who have voiced their disappointment here and in other threads actually spoke to someone and said "if club X applies for a National then make sure you vote for it" or "dont vote for club Y because the meeting there was rubbish"

I am all for Free Speech, and will take constructive criticism if I make a bad/wrong decision, but reading the Threads on here, and on Facebook, made by People who do not know what work is performed in the background (and some that do) I am seriously considering my position on the National 1/10th Off Road Committee.

RudeTony
20-12-2010, 08:55 AM
the drivers rep is also from mid west and the secretary is east, and yes the epr rep was there. i will say again it doesnt matter who or how many vote, one club will lose out. you tell me which one shouldn't get a national and why.
its all very well criticising the 9 who turned up and voted about the decision they reached. but unless your willing to put your hand up and say which one you wouldnt want then what is this poll acheiving?.
i am quite happy to tell you who i voted for, or in reality which club i did not vote for and my reasons, are you prepared to do the same?. equally i am happy to stand on a freezing cold rostrum for 8 hours a day to refereee your races, the timekeeper is prepared to time your races for the same length of time. are any of you willing to do the same?. i can take any criticism you care to throw at me, i made a decision because i got off my arse, drove up to birmingham, sat in a meeting,listened to the facts and voted. you don't agree with the decision? then get off your arse and do something. alternatively sit behind your keyboard telling me i got it wrong without actually offering an alternative.


I did that job for many years as people know. Even the PRO possition before I fell ill. I know what it's like to vote other clubs off, I run Hampshire Racing Centre for 10 years and it took me some 4 years to get a National, so will all the respect I do know what happens, why it happens and certainly how it happens.

Now to more CONSTRUCTIVE points and why some clubs should be above others!
Firstly they promote our sport in a PUBLIC area. This is the future but for some reason the heads of the BRCA don't see this as important.
Then we have venues that had had a National event and know what is required and DELIVERS everytime we go there. Please don't tell me Kiddys effort last time out at the end of year finals was good. They didn't have enough people to even cut the grass and as much as I am sorry to mention this especially as I know most of the lads around Kiddermisnster but it simply wasn't to National standard and if you really want me to quote "only a couple of us these days running the club" -----we surely don't have to go publicly down this route - do we??

The CRITERIA is a big issue in my eyes and is far from good enough.
A NATIONAL meeting should be an EVENT - should have the PUBLIC there saying where is my local model shop, I want my son/daughter to start this hobby etc etc - TV, newspapers, radio and so on should be in the criteria in running a National - Public places should be no 1 - like Southport (but put the tents away from the track and allow the public to view). We are certainly not going to PROMOTE our sport at some of the venues we are going to because the CRITERIA is not good enough. Then we should have a georgraphical map so it becomes not the Northern or Southern thing but a NATIONAL scenario. Whats the criteria now? If you are in with a few people you get a National? Is that STILL how it works?
The fact is also clear that if the DRIVERS had input then geographically EPR would have a National event. I can name you 40 plus drivers that would have chosen EPR as one of the National venues and that is a fact.
That also makes certain decisions wrong John. Not the people on the voting committee but the way it is voted for - the CRITERIA

So whether you want to take this as moaning or logically as constructive it's up to you guys but be carefull what you wish for as one day it could come true!!

TheReferee
20-12-2010, 09:37 AM
actually tony you can go public on the kidderminster thing, they put together a presentation which addresed every one of your concerns, not only did they supply a fully timetabled work schedule they also supplied a list of names of people for the day, they addressed every issue you have brought up and how they were going to ensure a succesful national event.
i was then able to make an informed decision on supporting their application.

so assuming you had been at the meeting and your concerns about kidderminster were shown to be unfounded who else gets the chop.

as for your statement "Whats the criteria now? If you are in with a few people you get a National? Is that STILL how it works?" . i am personnally offended that you can suggest i voted not with the best interest of the sport in my mind. i listened to the presentations, i asked pertinant questions and i exercised my vote. to suggest that i did some dodgy deal or am on a par with some FIFA official is frankly upsetting.

markwilliamson2001
20-12-2010, 09:58 AM
After following this thread for a bit, i thought I would comment..

It seems a lot of people are complaining about the distances they have to travel...well it is a NATIONAL series??!! If you dont want to travel, and cant afford it, just attend your regional series, just like us mere mortals!:p. I have looked at doing Nationals for a few years now, and just cannot do them, mainly due to RC tyre and hotels/fuel/camping costs...so will do my regionals.

It also seems their is a north south divide...not too sure how that works out. The tracks seem to be from a mix of regions

Stotfold: mid-south
Southport: north-west
Oswestry: mid-west
RHR: mid-east/north east (not sure)?
Taywain: wales
Kidderminster: mid-west

The only region missing out is south-east/london/home counties in favour of kiddrminster, who hasnt had a national for two years now. It seems like the last time, the venue wasnt quite good enough from others comments, which means they did not get it...

With regard to the other comments, I know that some clubs get the chop sometimes, but quite often bounce back with a better track or facilities, which has got to be good. Show us what you can do next time EPR!

I do agree with trying to get the media involved...seems there are too many obese playstation kids, who need to get out and get some fresh air...we need some fresh blood in this sport!

daz
20-12-2010, 10:07 AM
[QUOTE=markwilliamson2001;443906]After following this thread for a bit, i thought I would comment..

It seems a lot of people are complaining about the distances they have to travel...well it is a NATIONAL series??!! If you dont want to travel, and cant afford it, just attend your regional series, just like us mere mortals!



Have you tried doing the North-East series some of the venues are nearly 200 miles apart, so you might do the national series lol.

mattJT
20-12-2010, 10:30 AM
As a noobie to this sport/hobby I feel that I can post something within this thread now that the whole media side and publicity aspect is being voiced as an important issue to get people involved.

Having started very recently in this (hugely addictive and fun) hobby, yes there is a little part in your head that thinks, hmm maybe one day I'll get to race at regionals and nationals etc

But, a combination of all the threads at the moment, really puts you off that idea, (combination of venue choice thread, oople invatational thread etc), as there is so much bad feeling within all of them.

Oople as a public forum is excellent for getting advice etc and to have some fun pointless polls and get to cyber chat with fellow ooplers and it's all good fun.

All the noobies out there like me are reading these threads (which in effect is a media outlet for the sport)) and I'm sure i'm not the only one finding it all abit well depressing really.

I'm not going to make a point about what is being spoke about, as that wouldn't be appropriate, however it does seem clear that the referee is making some very valid points and is being very transparent about decisions, how they are made and of the difficulties that the committee experience, as a manager you soon learn that you can never please everyone and that you can only try your best to please the majority.

Rather than these threads developing and becoming increasingly personal in their nature, how possible would it be for all parties who are voicing concerns to meet with the commitee and each other and to discuss them all?

Essentially "email chats" never really achieve anything, it is obvious that there is alot of emotion and feeling relating to all of these thread's at the moment, so rather than everyone abusing each other, find a mutually accessible location, grab an urn of coffee/tea and talk about the problems face to face.

Solution may be found within this, or at least a greater understanding of what the problems actually are and how they could be potentially resolved.

But please remember guys, this thread is doing nothing for the publicity of this excellent hobby/sport.

RudeTony
20-12-2010, 10:46 AM
John
actually tony you can go public on the kidderminster thing - I have only reminded people what was clearly public at the meeting they run a National meeting that in my eyes was not to standard and it has to be said of their own admition too. I am one of the few people that congratulates clubs if a succesful event is held as I know what it takes and if Kiddy do their massive improvements (which I am sure they will) then i am all for it but at the time of voting you are speculating on something happenning and on promises and NOT facts of achiements.
Furthermore, as a hypothetical, if someone came to you with a PLAN of an event and it all seemed so so good, would you give them an event? Come on John, we all know the answer to that.

so assuming you had been at the meeting - firstly i wasn't aware that we can come and vote nor was there an announcement to when the meeting was nor anything else. Are you beginning to get the 'in with people comment'

who else gets the chop - I am not out to give anyone the chop John - The Criteria in my opinion is wrong - Promotion of the sport should be no 1 before anything else and if EPR and Southport are public venues then they should be no 1 on the list. Or infact if lets say we are in the middle of nowhere and the club organises TV or media of some sort then they should be first on the list. And if all the clubs do that then we move on to other factors, like rostrums, parking, facilities and the list goes on as you know BUT the National Championship should be used to PROMOTE our sport not for just amongst us.

am on a par with some FIFA official is frankly upsetting - You see John this is what I meant and thank you for your clarification of this. Everyone has assumed that FIFA officials done something wrong?! Have they?! Proof?! Of course we all know it's how everyone feels about FIFA and their decission to not give us the World Cup but realistically this is the same scenario John.
On face value is what everyone is assuming happens and hense my comments.

To the committe, to the Kiddy members and to you John, I publicly apologise if you feel I have offended you.
I mean this to be constructive and not upsetting for anyone but it is clearly the frustration like many many others that are not liking some of the decisions.

This is what happens when you have big enough kahuners to speak out loud.

ps - and to make the point even more - who is PRO for the 1/10th section - the way I understand it there isn't one - see what I mean about promotion and John, currently 64 % of the vote says the racers should at least have an input in the voting

TheReferee
20-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Furthermore, as a hypothetical, if someone came to you with a PLAN of an event and it all seemed so so good, would you give them an event? Come on John, we all know the answer to that.

obviously no you dont know the answer, remember RHR were given an event and they didn't have a track built!, we took the promises and the presentation and gave them a national.
silverstone applied for a national and said they were going to rip up the grass track and lay a new astro track, they were awarded a national on that promise and presentation.

firstly i wasn't aware that we can come and vote nor was there an announcement to when the meeting was nor anything else. Are you beginning to get the 'in with people comment.

it is laid down in the constitution who can vote, you could attend if you wish but do not get a vote. if you wish to change the voting eligibility then propose it at the AGM. the regional reps are informed of the meeting date. the point was which club would not get a national, you have your opinion based on what you believed to be the case reference kidderminster, i pointed out you were not in possesion of the facts, which may have changed your mind. again the comment about being "in with people" suggests some underhand method of removing a club from the national series

I am not out to give anyone the chop John - The Criteria in my opinion is wrong - Promotion of the sport should be no 1 before anything else and if EPR and Southport are public venues then they should be no 1 on the list. Or infact if lets say we are in the middle of nowhere and the club organises TV or media of some sort then they should be first on the list. And if all the clubs do that then we move on to other factors, like rostrums, parking, facilities and the list goes on as you know BUT the National Championship should be used to PROMOTE our sport not for just amongst us.

i agree promotion of the sport is important, should it be the number one consideration when choosing a venue is a point for debate.

You see John this is what I meant and thank you for your clarification of this. Everyone has assumed that FIFA officials done something wrong?! Have they?! Proof?! Of course we all know it's how everyone feels about FIFA and their decission to not give us the World Cup but realistically this is the same scenario John.
On face value is what everyone is assuming happens and hense my comments.

the perception of wrongdoing is indeed the issue, does everyone assume the committee is bent? if so i can guarantee you wont have a committee by next week. to continually suggest we the committee are manipulating the venues to suit our personal agenda is wrong.

and to make the point even more - who is PRO for the 1/10th section - the way I understand it there isn't one - see what I mean about promotion and John, currently 64 % of the vote says the racers should at least have an input in the voting.

the PRO issue is ongoing and as such i will not comment as for the poll if you want to have a say propose it at the AGM and you will have one. you assume that if more people vote that the outcome would be different. as i have said all the clubs who applied this year were valid contenders and one would be disappointed.

RudeTony
20-12-2010, 12:39 PM
John
This should not be about you and I and just our personal opinions.
This should be about the BEST venues and the BEST organisations PROMOTING our sport and who gets to decide those venues.
The non-racers or the paying customers to the BRCA

For your defence John I think you should give your reasons why EPR didn't get an event. What was wrong and so on. Baring in mind no official from EPR has made a comment here I am sure they feel dumped rather than not achiving a certain standard.

In my opinion the BEST clubs didn't get a National or 2011 and that is all I have to say in the matter, especially as you referred to everything in my post and clearly didn't accept or at least acknowledge a public apology.

TheReferee
20-12-2010, 12:49 PM
John
This should not be about you and I and just our personal opinions.
This should be about the BEST venues and the BEST organisations PROMOTING our sport and who gets to decide those venues.
The non-racers or the paying customers to the BRCA

For your defence John I think you should give your reasons why EPR didn't get an event. What was wrong and so on. Baring in mind no official from EPR has made a comment here I am sure they feel dumped rather than not achiving a certain standard.

In my opinion the BEST clubs didn't get a National or 2011 and that is all I have to say in the matter, especially as you referred to everything in my post and clearly didn't accept or at least acknowledge a public apology.

Sorry tony your apology is noted. as for EPR i voted for them so i cannot say why others did not, the epr rep did ask for feedback as to the reasons why those that didn't support the application. i have done my feedback to the club i didn't support.

MattW
20-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Tony does make an interesting point about the criteria to hold a national event.

The question was raised in the calender clash thread about weather Kidderminster "operates as a club". The answer came back that they don't hold regular meetings, but do hold winter series, and members do have access to the track. Maybe not a club in the traditional sense, but at least it is being run to the benifit of 1/10 Electric racers - so fair enough IMHO.

As a genuine question, what about Talywain? There has been various suggestions over the years about them only really being an 1/8 club, anyone know what the current situation is there?

So for the record, had I been there (and actually, if I hadn't been suffering "Man Flu" I might well have been there to stand in for my regional rep who wasn't available) that's the track that I would have had doubts over.

Reevsey
20-12-2010, 03:26 PM
Stotfold: mid-south
Southport: north-west
Oswestry: mid-west
RHR: mid-east/north east (not sure)?
Taywain: wales
Kidderminster: mid-west


I think i good idea for the future could be "where more clubs apply than there are dates no region should have more than one national, this would need to excluded end of season finals"

This is no way a dig at EPR not getting a national i just think it will make the series a true national series

Adam Skelding
20-12-2010, 04:00 PM
Clubs to apply for a National, and must be accepted as long as they fulfil the criteria for holding a national.

Committee to set the dates for the Nationals.

Drivers who attended ALL the nationals to vote on venue's.

Clubs must then accept the dates offered.

As an answer to the original question. This would seem the best solution to me also.
The only problem being that some drivers might then not want to attend nationals having previously expressing an interest (because of the venues). Which puts you in a chicken and the egg situation.. But I guess you can't avoid this and or other possibilities.

So.
Drivers Enter
Tracks & dates Chosen by 1/10th Off Road commitee to comply with H&S.
Tracks voted on by drivers (Anonymously)
Votes published
Tracks get pulled out of the hat for round order.

Or have an opinion poll as we have had before.
Drivers who did 4 or more rounds of the series voted on the tracks raced on that year... i.e. would they like to race there again. Yes or No and maybe an order of preference.

Ok, the last idea involves some work for the PRO, but surely if it's for the good of our sport...

And to throw a spanner in the works. If we are really concerned about promoting the sport to the 'Outside' world. What about having a 'Neutral' venue at a car show or something like....?

I was suprised by the venues, I did expect something different to what we got, but when all the dust settles, we all see each other at the first round of the series.

RogerM
20-12-2010, 06:10 PM
To the committe, to the Kiddy members and to you John, I publicly apologise if you feel I have offended you.


Don't worry Tony, you haven't offended me as a Kidderminster member, most other members are rational people so won't be offended either.

In defence of the club, which I feel I have to speak up about, it is understood what is required. Tony & Paul have been in the game for a long time and know what is needed, hey they are infact their own biggest critics most of the time!

Before Kidderminster applied a mail shot was sent out to all those who might be able to help them with the meeting, before during or indeed after the event.
The response seemed very good and it was decided to move forward with the application.

To give you an indication of how strongly people in the club / region feel about Kidderminster as a venue several of those who have pledged to help are going to do so even though it is quite hard for them. A couple of guys are coming from some considerable distance away to help prep the venue. Some others, myself included, are giving time / assistance at great personal expense and or compromised their own seasons racing. It's going to cost me about 500 from my own empty pocket to support the club that weekend in costs and lost earnings, also having seen the calander I it now means that I can not race the nationals myself this year if I am to support Kidderminster in running their event (can't really race it and help and would leave me only 3 dates I could do).

So why do we do it? Simple, it's a great place to race. Still my favourite (current) venue in the country (although I've not been to RHR so can not comment about that either way).
It is also VERY important to our region, without it I fear for the West Mids as a whole.

Kidderminster is often 2 dates on our regional series calander (20% of all meetings)
It's 50% of our off season race events
It's the only club that I know of where you can just turn up and gain access to the track for practice (if your a member of course) so it where a lot of the testing goes on.

So it doesn't hold Sunday "club" meetings, so what ... who in the West Mids region has any spare weekends to go to "club" if they wanted to?!?!?

It DOES host more than a third off ALL 1/10th offroad outdoor events and is the only true multisurface track in our region so it is very very VERY important to us. So much so we are more than happy to make sure it survives by presenting it to hold the national series in the hope that more folks see what a fantastic venue it is and come and support it for the other meetings.

Back to the poll and how did I vote? Well I haven't yet but I will be going for the "members/ racers" option.

Why?

Becuase I think we should get to race where we have the most fun!

How would that work?

In this day and age the internet is your tool. You set up a poll on the BRCA site and email all the members of the 1/10th off road section to tell them it is there.
They vote and at the SAME TIME commit their interest into doing the national series. by commit I mean pay a deposit. Those that pay up get their vote weigthed at say 3 times those that don't pay up.
You would select the venues from the list that you wanted to attend, one vote for each round EOS finals.

This would need to before the AGM though so the submission date for venues would have to go forward a little.

Now the tricky bit .....

As has already been said the commitee will have the info about what dates each venue can / can not do and any other relevant information needed to form the calander.

Those venues that scored the highest get 1st selection, next 2nd until all are events have a host that can hold it. Now sometimes it might be that a club that has lots of votes can't do any of the remaining dates and the commitee would have to skip to the next one ... nothing can be done about that ... if they had more votes they would have had first dibs and got their date, they didn't .... better luck next time.

The details in terms of votes and reason why any club got skipped (no available date etc.) could then be published on the BRCA site for all of us to see.
That way the clubs, racers and everybody connected to the sport could see what the preferences were.


I am sure there are many many variations on that theme that could be considered and also that I am nowhere near the best person to sort that out.

I put my faith in Charlie, Stuart, John and the rest of the team to do the best they can for us so lets give them all the info they need. I certainyl wouldn't be able to commit the sort of time and energy that is required to getting us all racing!

Fire blanket at the ready and awaiting the falmes to come my way ;)

Jonesy
20-12-2010, 09:23 PM
In relation to rogers post above I am down to help at the track as it's one of my favourite tracks. I will be helping as much as possible despite living nearly 2 hours away

Al3xis007
20-12-2010, 10:20 PM
EPR is one of my favorite tracks, yes, they missed out for 2011 but hopefully they'll be back on the callendar for 2012. if you want this track to have a better chance for 2012, support their winter series, dont forget they'll miss the revenue from ppl coming down for nationals practice

James
06-01-2011, 08:27 PM
I'd like to see a system where the drivers vote, on clubs that have been passed acceptable by the committee. So at the AGM any clubs applied will be deemed suitable. After this, drivers who completed the series last year (ie. 4 or more) can take part in an online vote for where they would like to go (and what tires to use). This vote would close by Dec 1st or something, and then the entry form can be published for January :)

I agree. You can vote online or text to vote on pretty much anything these days, good opportunity to maximise the BRCA's new website?

James
06-01-2011, 08:42 PM
[COLOR=Black]obviously no you dont know the answer, remember RHR were given an event and they didn't have a track built!, we took the promises and the presentation and gave them a national.
silverstone applied for a national and said they were going to rip up the grass track and lay a new astro track, they were awarded a national on that promise and presentation.


Just wanted to say that the BRCA were diligent and didnt just take our word
about this and Paul did drive up to see the venue to make sure it would be ready. Hopefully we were trusted also because we had held about 15 nationals on exactly the same site in previous years.

Northy
06-01-2011, 10:41 PM
Just wanted to say that the BRCA were diligent and didnt just take our word
about this and Paul did drive up to see the venue to make sure it would be ready. Hopefully we were trusted also because we had held about 15 nationals on exactly the same site in previous years.

And also the YORCC had held many very successful indoor nationals ;)