Any news on the Battery's for 08

[tyreman]

Any news on the BRCA battery list for 2008?

[telboy]

Aren't the new Orion SHO cells legal for 2008?

Sure I've read somewhere that they are.

[tyreman]

YGPM

[Jamie B4]

Hi Bri,

If you find out anything about the batteries ie a list can you send me a copy cos its getting a bit close.

[tyreman]

Hi Bri,

If you find out anything about the batteries ie a list can you send me a copy cos its getting a bit close.

Behave it's getting a bit close!:rolleyes:, were not even out of January yet, any new cells wouldn't be legal to use until after the indoor finals anyway.

[Jamie B4]

Yeh but 120 drivers plus all wanting cells will take a little bit of time to sort our and they start April

[Northy]

Oooooo, good point, what cells are we going to have to use at the indoor finals? :confused:

G

[andy05]

Yeh but 120 drivers plus all wanting cells will take a little bit of time to sort our and they start April
Jay thats 120 drivers in off road only think about all the boring car drivers and other classes:o thats alot off new packs needed

[Doomanic]

The indoor finals are counted as a 2007 meeting, so any that were legal last year.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Jay thats 120 drivers in off road only think about all the boring car drivers and other classes:o thats alot off new packs needed

12th'ers will be getting theirs in August after the 1st batch of iffy ones have gone through. So we'll be on the MK2's which should be faster and more robust :D

[James]

is there a date set for the homologated list to be published?

[c0sie]

http://www.brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/EB%20Battery%20List%202007P.pdf

Updated list has been released apparently

[Southwell]

Whats a HD type IB?

[Wraggy]

http://www.brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/EB%20Battery%20List%202007P.pdf

Updated list has been released apparently

4600 !!!!! whats the point ??

[jimmy]

I always thought that once on, cells and motors never left 'the list' (apart from ones that became illegal sized) - even if not actually listed? But I guess that's not the case from reading the top of that thread, and I have none of the cells shown.

Not really sure what to get either, there's so many :confused: whats good?!

[Chris Doughty]

good job to Paul for getting the list done, I am sure there are a lot of man hours that have gone into that!!

Fat Cobras!! yey :thumbsup:

also

All Cells measured after cycling at 1C. Diameter measurements include 'Printed' shrink only.
Battery packs must be able to be removed from the Car quickly without the use of tools. Direct soldering is not allowed.
It is advisable to restrict charge rates to 1C, and follow the guidelines -'Using NiMH Cells' published in the (EB) Section of the BRCA website

so does this mean that we can't use screws to hold down the battery strap now?

[Chris Green]

ouch. So I can't even use bulletproof GP3700's? Seems strange to me.

I'm not concerned about capacity, just safety more than anything else.

And the "BRCA Approved" Kapow 4200's that I bought in november aren't on there either. I wonder if they've been taken off the list?

[Southwell]

Thumb screws would be ok i guess still.

[Chris Green]

Not really sure what to get either, there's so many :confused: whats good?!

I was just thinking that. Its nice to have a large shopping list to choose from though. :drool:

Some of those cells I haven't heard of before.

[dbizzle5]

What!!!! you cant use GP 3700's? Is that for definate? What about for use in regionals?

[dan_kitty]

dam, so that means i cant use my ep 4200's cos they dont say 08 on the side.

what are yungtong 4300's they look well fit!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

What!!!! you cant use GP 3700's? Is that for definate? What about for use in regionals?

from what I've been reading,

2008 list is for BRCA nationals, whatever class you race, off-road, on-road, 12th Pan Car.

Regionals can run the older batteries this year and from 2009 all cells must be on the list for Nationals & Regionals.

correct me if I'm wrong

[dbizzle5]

Cheers chequred! I hope your right as Ive just bought 5 packs of 3700's thinking they would be ok for this year! Luckily Im not doin nationals but will be doin regionals, so I hope your right!!!:o:o

[dave p hall]

i like the way pitures have been uesd:thumbsup:weres me flexible freind gone:woot:

[losixxx]

it does say at top of the page, cells for national events in 08, so until 09 you can use what was legal last year

[CraigM2610]

Not really sure what to get either, there's so many :confused: whats good?!

I was just thinking that. Its nice to have a large shopping list to choose from though. :drool:

Some of those cells I haven't heard of before.

ive got a set of EP 4200s (and some other random ones lol) and love them :thumbsup:

i would recommend them and i think andy and matt will back me up?!

[Chrislong]

http://www.brca.org/BRCA/elecboard/news/EB%20Battery%20List%202007P.pdf

Updated list has been released apparently

Am I missing something here, you're all responding like it is a new list, so I must be clicking the link and being directed to the wrong page. The list I see states valid from 1st April 2007, and last edited 01/01/07.... that 2007, we're 2008...

[peetbee]

When I click on the link you've quoted it takes me to the Jan 2008 list?

[CraigM2610]

ive got the Jan 08 aswell :confused:

[Wraggy]

Am I missing something here, you're all responding like it is a new list, so I must be clicking the link and being directed to the wrong page. The list I see states valid from 1st April 2007, and last edited 01/01/07.... that 2007, we're 2008...
its defo 2008 list Chris ..
date is in the left hand corner :thumbsup:

[jimmy]

it does say at top of the page, cells for national events in 08, so until 09 you can use what was legal last year


I missed something here? cells from last year aren't on the list.

[CraigM2610]

its defo 2008 list Chris ..
date is in the left hand corner :thumbsup:

Its on the right for me :lol: lol

[dave p hall]

i think the list means you can use last years 07 cells for 08 regionals(not nationals),but as from 09 cells have to be on list for nationals(as normal) and regionals:confused:think thats how it read to me:woot:

[Wraggy]

Its on the right for me :lol: lol
its been a long day !!!! lol :(

[jimmy]

i think the list means you can use last years 07 cells for 08 regionals(not nationals),but as from 09 cells have to be on list for nationals(as normal) and regionals:confused:think thats how it read to me:woot:

yeah that's what I thought
like I said though, so many cells I've never seen or heard of before!

[dave p hall]

yeah that's what I thought
like I said though, so many cells I've never seen or heard of before!

yeah,there is some strangers on that list. i think them ep 4200's will be wise move jim:confused:from what ive heared about them:eh?:

[jimmy]

I've got some from last year and they're my best cells. Won't be allowed to use them at the Nats but yeah if they are pretty much the same cells I think I'll consider getting those again.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I am having the same problem as Chris it says 1st April 2007.

[jimmy]

Not sure why that is, I could download it and upload it here (might be a problem on their server) but if they change / update it then mine could be misleading so it's best to get things direct from the BRCA.

If anyone has any experience with the latest cells on this list then give some feedback in here. That goes for the future too - might as well tell us all when they vent on their first charge, or blow your car to bits :woot:

[dave p hall]

I've got some from last year and they're my best cells. Won't be allowed to use them at the Nats but yeah if they are pretty much the same cells I think I'll consider getting those again.

did you find they would drain quickly:confused:like ib's did when not in use.im realy temted for the new ep ones.

[Chrislong]

Im going mad here, I can;t see the new list!! Hope its a good link when I get home, LOL. if not, please can somebody save the PDF and email it to me, (PM me for email address)

I need to see it!! before I explode!!

[jimmy]

not really sure to be honest, but they are a world better than the super world team IB packs I have. I don't even take those to races with me anymore - they go out of sync instantly and feel soft.
I need to have a clear out of old cells.. any idea what to do with them all?

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Salt water Jimmy:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Wraggy]

but they are a world better than the super world team IB packs I have.

thats strange as my world packs are the best ones i have ..
loads of power and ridiculous amounts of punch from them ...

[dave p hall]

not really sure to be honest, but they are a world better than the super world team IB packs I have. I don't even take those to races with me anymore - they go out of sync instantly and feel soft.
I need to have a clear out of old cells.. any idea what to do with them all?

yeah,my new ib's didn;t even get to see the race track:mad:load of :mad:i won't swear in public:Di reckon your local tip,recycling centre will dispose of them for you.

[jimmy]

thats strange as my world packs are the best ones i have ..
loads of power and ridiculous amounts of punch from them ...

I've got some 2 year old ones from someone and they are alright - used them at the weekend. But my brand spanker top-line ones from last year didn't see the track before they were knackered - and became useless pretty quickly.

I only just got an equalizer (for xmas) but the old IB's I still use were NEVER equalized for 2 years and are still going strong.

[Reevsey]

I ran the Orion SHO 4200's matched by peak at the weekend and was really impressed, Voltage was as good as IB's but they are a lite bit down on run time v IB but to be honest who needs every second in off road was still coming of with 1600 still in them after each race!! I would recomend the cells to anyone

[David Church]

Sweet, looks like my cells are on the list!!!:thumbsup:
There is a good chance I will be able to supply these if anyone is interested.
Not 100% confirmed yet though. But you can let me know if you are interested!!!!

[GRIFF55]

So my Nosram 4200's will be no good for this season then:eh?::(

[ashleyb4]

Oh no GP4600

Im not sure what to get my gp4300 are holding up for now may get soem more next year.

A

[Chrislong]

I see it now, pictures too. Great presentation! :woot:

Id like to run the Orion cell given a choice, for me it all depends on what the matcher is matching, im glad we now have a list so that can be decided!!

[DCM]

ph well, looks like I got 10 packs of GOOD cells that would be no good for a national, and I was going to try and get an entry for Talywain....

[telboy]

Strange that the Intelect 4200's are still on there, considering it's those that seem to be going pop.:confused:

I'm not complaining, 'cos it means all the cells I've got are still legal. :)

[Chrislong]

Hey Tel, I spotted that too, but it says "revised 2008 spec" so do be careful mate - im not sure just when this spec has been made available, theres a chance some of us have them already..

[tc2k]

So does this mean say you went to nationals with GP3300s, cells which were widely used and werent a huge risk of going bang, are not allowed. Yet the IB4200s, which were widely the reason for these fears being brought up, are still allowed?

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I am not happy at all, all my cells are not legal anymore. I purchased these cells in september last year in good faith that I will be able to run them this year as I used the same sort of battery all year in the national series, now they have been taken off the list. How are the people that fund there own racing able to afford a big outlay like this is going to be if I want to race in the nationals. I am totaly pissed of now beyond words.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Hey Tel, I spotted that too, but it says "revised 2008 spec" so do be careful mate - im not sure just when this spec has been made available, theres a chance some of us have them already..

They have gold lettering on them not silver (mine are all silver).

[josh_smaxx]

I am complaining because i wanted by EP's to last half way through 2009 aswell :mad: im not doing nationals but i like having legal equipment and for the sake of not having '2008' written on the labels im a little naffed. I got my EP's cheap off demon and it still cost me £100 (ok, not alot for most people but it takes me 10 weeks to save up that money) yet the new cells are going to be more like £50 a pack, im just getting on with 3 packs now, i couldnt do a regional with 2 packs and i can not afford £150 on cells. Bring on LiPo.

Rant over.

[losixxx]

I am not happy at all, all my cells are not legal anymore. I purchased these cells in september last year in good faith that I will be able to run them this year as I used the same sort of battery all year in the national series, now they have been taken off the list. How are the people that fund there own racing able to afford a big outlay like this is going to be if I want to race in the nationals. I am totaly pissed of now beyond words.

dont' buy cell's till the list comes out! same every year

[losixxx]

I am complaining because i wanted by EP's to last half way through 2009 aswell :mad: im not doing nationals but i like having legal equipment and for the sake of not having '2008' written on the labels im a little naffed. I got my EP's cheap off demon and it still cost me £100 (ok, not alot for most people but it takes me 10 weeks to save up that money) yet the new cells are going to be more like £50 a pack, im just getting on with 3 packs now, i couldnt do a regional with 2 packs and i can not afford £150 on cells. Bring on LiPo.

Rant over.



josh i doubt very much its a case of just not having 2008 written on them!! if you really think all the would change is the writting to make them legal over last years version then well your beyond help;):D

i would assume its a completely different cell to the one you have otherwise it wouldnt be legal, as the silver writting one from what ive been told exceeded the size limit....

[Chrislong]

dont' buy cell's till the list comes out! same every year

Change the record please Chris, these guys have innocently bought new cells in good faith with expectation of being able to use them.

September last year there was no hint of IB's being taken off the list, was there? Previously, cells which were homoligated remain homoligated.

Go back 12 months, and the reason for waiting is to see which better cells are legal, but those who weren't bothered (i.e. Spencer) would still be fine on old cells.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I used those cells last year with no problem infact 95% of racers used those cells last year that is why I bought some more thinking there would be no problem. I needed to buy cells when I did as my older cells had give up. They where on the list last year so that is why I purchased them not expecting them to be taken off. If I was buying cells now I would look at the list as I did last year.

[losixxx]

Change the record please Chris, these guys have innocently bought new cells in good faith with expectation of being able to use them.

September last year there was no hint of IB's being taken off the list, was there? Previously, cells which were homoligated remain homoligated.

Go back 12 months, and the reason for waiting is to see which better cells are legal, but those who weren't bothered (i.e. Spencer) would still be fine on old cells.

every reason chris...after all there's been problem's with the cells for a while plus if people actually bothered reading the rule book once in a while they would have known about the size change's occuring in 2008.....

so the recorded keeps playing on and on and on and on....all my cells apart from 1 pack are buggered since september but i havent bought any new until the list come's out....

[MikePimlott]

Is this list correct, No GP 3700. Hows that right ?

[losixxx]

I used those cells last year with no problem infact 95% of racers used those cells last year that is why I bought some more thinking there would be no problem. I needed to buy cells when I did as my older cells had give up. They where on the list last year so that is why I purchased them not expecting them to be taken off. If I was buying cells now I would look at the list as I did last year.


thats like saying but i used mini pins at kiddy national 2 years ago and bought loads to use last year but couldnt as the control tyre changed. everyone knows not to buy tyres until the national list is produced, exactly the same as the electric board list so why are people moaning........! enough said really

[OldTimer]

dont' buy cell's till the list comes out! same every year

Some of us will still be using old cells from last year not new ones for the nationals, well that was until the list came out and all my cells are now illegal bugger.

[josh_smaxx]

Are you sure there a completely new cell? They has been one reported case of an EP cell exploding and the BRCA have reportidly put some examples through some really rough testing abusing them in nearly every way possible and have had no detinations so i dont see how they need to bring a new '08 version out to make the rules. I measured one of my EP cells as soon as its peaked (used for 2 nights a week since end of June) and it measured 43.3xx mm in length so it must be less than 43mm sat normally.

[Chris Doughty]

Josh - thats the whole point of the rule change, they need to be 43mm or less no matter what state of charge they are.

[mark christopher]

So does this mean say you went to nationals with GP3300s, cells which were widely used and werent a huge risk of going bang, are not allowed. Yet the IB4200s, which were widely the reason for these fears being brought up, are still allowed?
gold label not silver
I am not happy at all, all my cells are not legal anymore. I purchased these cells in september last year in good faith that I will be able to run them this year as I used the same sort of battery all year in the national series, now they have been taken off the list. How are the people that fund there own racing able to afford a big outlay like this is going to be if I want to race in the nationals. I am totaly pissed of now beyond words.
consult where you bought them from, thier crystal ball is busted
Is this list correct, No GP 3700. Hows that right ?
they were not submitted!!

bring on lipo, for me!!

[josh_smaxx]

I know thats the point of the rule change but i bet that theres a new EP cell out there thats over 43mm in length, anyway i'll leave it there and have to fork out for cells, theres nothing i can do about it so theres no point wasting energy ranting about it on the internet.


bring on lipo, for me!!

Very much agreeded with.

[terry.sc]

I am complaining because i wanted by EP's to last half way through 2009 aswell :mad: im not doing nationals but i like having legal equipmentAs long as you're not doing nationals your cells are perfectly legal, anything on the 2007 list is fine for regionals and then at a local level it's up to your club what they let you use. The new list only affects BRCA national championship racers.

September last year there was no hint of IB's being taken off the list, was there? Previously, cells which were homoligated remain homoligated.

And I'm with Losixxx, if you are a national racer (and if you read the rulebook) you have known about this rule change for 2 years now. The change of rule was still in there last september and it did say all cells had to meet the new smaller dimensions regulations and had to be resubmitted to be legal.

Then again, if you are not a national championship racer the new rules make no difference to you.

I measured one of my EP cells as soon as its peaked (used for 2 nights a week since end of June) and it measured 43.3xx mm in length so it must be less than 43mm sat normally.That makes the cell illegal. It must now be no more than 43mm in length at any time during homologation testing, not just when it's fresh off the production line. If they bring out a new cell that's bigger than 43mm it will never be legal.

[GRIFF55]

Some of us will still be using old cells from last year not new ones for the nationals, well that was until the list came out and all my cells are now illegal bugger.


Mine too:( The Wife is going to love the new Batteries she gets for Valentines:wub

[alrg500]

mmm so my GP37's are now illegal, but at least my GP43's are still ok, can I use my GP37's in Practice at nationals and then use the GP43's for the races?

[MikePimlott]

but at least my GP43's are still ok,

only if theyre 2008 spec

[Chrislong]

Im not going to debate over it, im just trying to give some understanding to the lads who are in unfortunate position such as Spencer.

[_JP_]

OK I am really confused now :(

I have GP3700 so I can no longer use them?
What about my GP3300's that I use in 2wd?

I'm talking about nationals and regional meetings.

Yes I know the rule changes have been imminent but at the moment I am not a happy bunny

[alrg500]

only if theyre 2008 spec

Oh, so they are illegal as well:(?

[B&H Racing]

As long as you're not doing nationals your cells are perfectly legal, anything on the 2007 list is fine for regionals and then at a local level it's up to your club what they let you use. The new list only affects BRCA national championship racers.



And I'm with Losixxx, if you are a national racer (and if you read the rulebook) you have known about this rule change for 2 years now. The change of rule was still in there last september and it did say all cells had to meet the new smaller dimensions regulations and had to be resubmitted to be legal.

Then again, if you are not a national championship racer the new rules make no difference to you.


So what happens if you have only been racing offroad for 1 year bought new cells in November, got a F3 grading so can race Nationals, but could now have illegal cells ?

[terry.sc]

All the old cells such as 3700s and 3300s are now technically illegal for national championship racing, mainly because they weren't submitted by the manufacturers. I suspect none of them would have problems with the dimension rules, but then it isn't in the manufacturers best interests to keep on submitting old cells.

So what happens if you have only been racing offroad for 1 year bought new cells in November, got a F3 grading so can race Nationals, but could now have illegal cells ?
Unfortunately you have to buy new cells for the national meetings. There's no way around it.

[josh_smaxx]

I know my cells are good for the regionals and im fine for that, if they wernt or i was doing the national championship then i would buy the new cells at i would deem it worth it but i had considered doing the juniors this year (which i believe is a national therefore would abide by the new cell rules) but now i cant do it because i cant afford the cells for it, kids racing on pocket money do struggle with things like this.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Im not going to debate over it, im just trying to give some understanding to the lads who are in unfortunate position such as Spencer.

Cheers Chris I am not going to say any more on the matter and try to think of a way to get some batteries for the nationals.

[_JP_]

Why were we aloud to run and buy cells that were "illegal"

[losixxx]

So what happens if you have only been racing offroad for 1 year bought new cells in November, got a F3 grading so can race Nationals, but could now have illegal cells ?

you still had the rule book and access to the information via the BRCA site!

[footey]

and me chris was going to be my first year at nationals but dont no if i can afford to now :thumbdown:

[xx4-nutter]

and me chris was going to be my first year at nationals but dont no if i can afford to now :thumbdown:

shane sell some of this ..


Saw this in the other post about history of R/C racing, how cool is this pic!

http://www.ymr.no/bilder/historie/PERSONER/Hirosaka/Hirosaka_AlleSeire.jpg

lol :)

[PaulRotheram]

Does anyone know what the deal is over the same cells in different logos? for example the LRP cells are on the list, but Nosram arnt, does that make nosram cells illegal or legal to use? Can someone who actually knows please verify this please.

[Northy]

Paul, they are not labeled as LRP, they are VTecs.

Our Nosram VTecs will be fine dude, whichever crazy name we choose! :thumbsup:

G

[losixxx]

if it aint on the list it aint legal. don't the nosram one's come with red heat shrinky instead of the the blue v-tec type?

if its the same heat shrinked cell as the list but with a nosram matchers sticker then they should be fine

[Northy]

Just had a look, see what you mean.

Oh well, Orions it is then :drool:

G

[Chequered Flag Racing]

you still had the rule book and access to the information via the BRCA site!

the rule book

bit like an instruction manual, us men don't bother to read them :woot:

[niggs98]

my last year cells were the same heat shrink just a different sticker on the top so if this years ones are the same then i cant see that being an issue or am i reading things wrong :S also have you all seen that you cant direct solder anymore

[strobe]

Looks like i will not be doing the Nationals this year. None of my cells are on the list. Bugger.

[Mike Hudson]

Yeh the direct solder not being allowed has been around since last year now as its a potentional risk, all battries must have some sort of easy connector on them if they need to be removed from any car at any point, I'll be making an investment in some of orion sho's when i eventually get the money :drool:

[Northy]

also have you all seen that you cant direct solder anymore

Niggs,

You've not been allowed to do that for a while, you naughty boy! :thumbdown: :lol:

G

[Southwell]

Anyone wanna buy 8 packs of 4200's and 5 packs of 3800's? :thumbdown: :woot:

[DCM]

dont' buy cell's till the list comes out! same every year

you know what, I dunno if it is me being full of a head cold or not, but this statement really pisses me off. From the 2007 list backwards, it has always been that what has been homologated before would always be legal for racing. Now, if we were all to do as you say Chris says, we would all only buy cells annually at the same time of the year and not for the rest of the year.....

So how long before the list comes out should we stop buying cells? I bought mine at the end of September as I really needed them..... Most of the cells on the list were not available, and how was I to predict, should I of not bothered buying cells and gone racing to make up the numbers. I was really hoping to maybe get a reserve for a national, but I am not going to go out and buy 5 packs of cells for one race, and these cells are way to new to replace.

If I wasn't thinking of doing a National, it wouldn't bother me, but I was and it does, don't matter HOW you butter it.

[niggs98]

Niggs,

You've not been allowed to do that for a while, you naughty boy! :thumbdown: :lol:

G

lmao ive been using orions connectors for ages m8 as have never directly soldered but i know of a few who have lol:D

[losixxx]

[quote=DCM;88774]you know what, I dunno if it is me being full of a head cold or not, but this statement really pisses me off. From the 2007 list backwards, it has always been that what has been homologated before would always be legal for racing. Now, if we were all to do as you say Chris says, we would all only buy cells annually at the same time of the year and not for the rest of the year.....

So how long before the list comes out should we stop buying cells? I bought mine at the end of September as I really needed them..... Most of the cells on the list were not available, and how was I to predict, should I of not bothered buying cells and gone racing to make up the numbers. I was really hoping to maybe get a reserve for a national, but I am not going to go out and buy 5 packs of cells for one race, and these cells are way to new to replace.[qoute]

do you know post's like this really piss me off... the size rule change has been around since 2005 saying this would/possibly occure in 2008 if manufacturer's didnt change the cell dimentions, we all knew the issues that have been happening with cell's over the last 12/18 months so surely any sane person would have thought something like this would/might happen!

[_JP_]

I was very close to getting 5 packs off sloppy, its only the fact I spent the cash that stopped me!

oh well I have calmed down a bit, bit still a bit peeved that if I do nationals I need new cells! even though I was going to manage for another year on 3700's!

[strobe]

Any Model shops got any of the these cells for 2008 national season in stock.

[losixxx]

the orion one's are in stock at horizon (peak matched) £56.99 RRPand mirage (orion matched(if think) £59.99 RRP

[Southwell]

Nice, £180 bill i wasn't expecting....the nuts were already on the block after blowing £400 on new speedos :lol:

[josh_smaxx]

the orion one's are in stock at horizon (peak matched) £56.99 RRPand mirage (orion matched(if think) £59.99 RRP

Nice :eh?:

[DanW]

Any Model shops got any of the these cells for 2008 national season in stock.

Theres gonna be plenty of models shops stuck with stocks of older "2007" spec cells. Bet theres some pissed off shop keepers reading the list.

Rules are rules though, just got to live with it.

[_JP_]

Nice, £180 bill i wasn't expecting....the nuts were already on the block after blowing £400 on new speedos :lol:

snap, I thought I was ok and it was only 3800+ grrrr

[jimarea51]

Hi all,

I'm just buying 1 pack of legal cells and charging them up after each race, Last year i was only using 2200mah-2600mah so will have enough time to cool 'em down and recharge.... I'll run the same pack after resoldering them to fit in my 4wd the day after....

Cheap as chips:woot:

Jim

[bigred5765]

playing devils advocate here i may be
but why would anyone buy cells at the end of a season, and still think they'll be OK for outdoors next year,
thrashing them over the winter indoors is going to ruin them no matter how good/gentle your are with them,surely you would buy after the new list is released,
then kill em indoors,we manage on 4 really knacked cells all indoors and still had good results,not that indoor results matter anyways
it does say on the list APPROVED BATTERY LIST, Jan. 2008.
Only cells detailed below are approved for BRCA National Events in 2008.
so i take that to means no 3700 no 3800 etc

[blitzboy]

here wew go agian will some one please get upto date lipos are the way to go ans thats a fact but its seems the powers that be have spoken oh tihs is the place to go guys for your cells :thumbsup:www.theraceplace.co.uk (http://www.theraceplace.co.uk)

these guys are on the ball ,,,, im gettin mine sorted as soon as i sell the others not thta its worth it but eh thats the rules

[Northy]

here wew go agian will some one please get upto date lipos are the way to go ans thats a fact......

But the same would happen if some lipo's that people have bought were not on the list wouldn't it? :confused:

G

[terry.sc]

here wew go agian will some one please get upto date lipos are the way to go ans thats a fact but its seems the powers that be have spoken Well if some of the racers went to the AGM and proposed them and the majority of the racers there voted for them we would all be running them. The 'powers' are all the BRCA members, it's got nothing to do with the BRCA committee. Bikes have been running them for years and the touring cars will be running lipos in the prostock class because the racers wanted them.

[josh_smaxx]

Lets face it, no matter what they brought out as legal cells there was going to be arguments and unhappy people, we just have to live with it, these are the people who make our hobby happen so who are we to complain? (sorry for being really hipocritical there :yawn:) We arnt always going to 'get on' with them but we unfortunately have to live with it.

[big air]

Are you sure there a completely new cell? They has been one reported case of an EP cell exploding and the BRCA have reportidly put some examples through some really rough testing abusing them in nearly every way possible and have had no detinations so i dont see how they need to bring a new '08 version out to make the rules. I measured one of my EP cells as soon as its peaked (used for 2 nights a week since end of June) and it measured 43.3xx mm in length so it must be less than 43mm sat normally.

2 ep 4200 cells exploded quietly :woot: in a race at teesside on sat night In a tt01, They are always charged at 4 amps and looked after, I think they were only 6 weeks old matched from a well known company :wtf:

[David Church]

Like I said earlier in this thread, I should be able to sort out Slingshot cells, pm me if interested, EP's 4200 or E-Power 4500's:thumbsup:

[josh_smaxx]

2 ep 4200 cells exploded quietly :woot: in a race at teesside on sat night In a tt01, They are always charged at 4 amps and looked after, I think they were only 6 weeks old matched from a well known company :wtf:

Is that 2 out of the same pack? could they have been shorted out?

[DCM]

it isn't the fact that the new cells are on the list, it is the fact that the old ones are not.

re: buying cells before indoor season, I buy my cells as and when funds allow and deals come up, and as I don't really do nationals, then it doesn't matter when I buy my cells.

My grumble is the fact that now there will be a rush on for the new cells, garaunteed the prices will be high until the rush has gone down a bit, and that in all the years past, what went on the list staid on the list, I know ALL about the size ruling but just assumed that in 2008 if they submitted oversize cells, they wouldn't be cleared, not that the whole rest of the list would be deleted.....

Think the BRCA may well have shot themselves in the foot a little there....

[big air]

Is that 2 out of the same pack? could they have been shorted out?

Nope checked them out after they were put outside and the heat of the first one must have set the other one off, they didn't touch anything just went up :woot:

[josh_smaxx]

Nope checked them out after they were put outside and the heat of the first one must have set the other one off, they didn't touch anything just went up :woot:

Hmmm, thats bad then, maybe some faulty ones :confused:

[showtime]

Like I said earlier in this thread, I should be able to sort out Slingshot cells, pm me if interested, EP's 4200 or E-Power 4500's:thumbsup:


i ran some E-Power 4500's at Newbury 2 weeks ago & they seemed very good :thumbsup:

[markwilliamson2001]

I think I am in the same position as most others here, and had intended doing some nationals this year, and could have easily of competed with my GP3700's had they been legal. I bought most of my cells in April/May of last year, and since the message has been out since 2005 that cells "might" be illegal, but nothing actually happened, most of us would buy cells we could afford AND that were legal within the last two years. This means GP3300/3700 and IB 3200/3800 which are perfectly safe reliable and easily last a race, are now illegal. Thank god that this only effects nationals, as I would be down to club racing only....:(:(

Slightly annoyed paying racer...

Oh well
Mark

[Wraggy]

the orion one's are in stock at horizon (peak matched) £56.99 RRPand mirage (orion matched(if think) £59.99 RRP

cheap as chips then! and here was me thinking of buying 8 new packs! guess i may think about it again

[GRIFF55]

cheap as chips then! and here was me thinking of buying 8 new packs! guess i may think about it again

Goo Onn, go sell a kidney or something:lol:, you know you want to.
Bad News Innit?

[Wraggy]

Goo Onn, go sell a kidney or something:lol:, you know you want to.
Bad News Innit?

ha ha and here's me trying to save for 300 quids worth of tyres for the euro's also! need to sell my heart i think!! lol

[xx4-nutter]

£300 worth of tyres ?

:thumbsup:

[ashleyb4]

I think we will be persuading neil to bring back stormforce

A

[telboy]

They have gold lettering on them not silver (mine are all silver).

...aaah bugger. Mine are the silver ones.:rolleyes:

Oh well, e-bay here I come!!



Did someone mention disposing of the cells?
If so, the council will take them away if you put them in a clear bag and place them in your blue box/bin that they collect the tin stuff in.:) They just collect them with the other stuff in there. If you don't have a blue box then probably the tip or something.

[MattW]

The problem is guys, where do you want to draw the line. Now, it's relevent here that i say i am like everyone else - i have plenty of IB cells sitting around me - probably in the region of 18-20 packs. Not only that - i bought 3 brand new packs about 3 weeks ago to go to an international race -yes i knew there was a very good chance this was going to happen - but felt it was no point going with dead cells, and haven't decided what i'm doing yet for 12th scale Euros in April which will run to 2007 list. I may get my cells a LITTLE cheaper, but i do pay for them - and i'd bet there are some unsponsered drivers that pay less for their cells than i do (overseas etc)

So, you want 07 spec cells to remain legal at nationals for 08. Ok, so let's start by assuming there is an advantage to having the cells a little bigger (let's be honest, manufactures wouldn't have made them bigger if this wasn't the case). So we then have 07 spec and 08 spec cells - which do you think the top 10 guys would be running??? so then you have an 07 list of cells, that are probably no longer available to buy - but the top guys are running them. Is this something people would be happy with?

So when do you decide to actually make the change?? you have to do it sometime if you have passed a rule. IT ws decided a while back to make it 2008. Now i do agree 100% that more should have been made of it 12 months ago - i think people's attention should have been drawn to the fact that it was the intention.

Look on the bright side, they could have said that it applied for all santioned meetings...............as will be the case in 2009.

[James]

Unfortunately (well fortunately depending on how you look at it) looks that another major line will have to be drawn maybe 2010 ? for lipo, what do you guys think...?

[MattW]

Yeah, maybe. All LiPo really needs is someone to propose it at the agm, and enough people support it.

[DCM]

the rules should of been implemented it at the time of the rule change, no grace, so we wouldn't be on the fourth incarnation of the IB cell....

[Chris Green]

oops, I'm getting concerned over nothing!

I'm only going to be running regionals this season anyway. If anyone wants to donate their useless cells to me, please feel free! :woot:

[big air]

oops, I'm getting concerned over nothing!

I'm only going to be running regionals this season anyway. If anyone wants to donate their useless cells to me, please feel free! :woot:

I'll second that :thumbsup:

[alrg500]

oops, I'm getting concerned over nothing!

I'm only going to be running regionals this season anyway. If anyone wants to donate their useless cells to me, please feel free! :woot:


TBH
I am now about the same, what was to be my first full national season will probably be cancelled as I can't use my perfectly good (for me) several year old secondhand batterys at any of the nationals, or do I buy a couple of packs of legal batteries and charge the arse off them all day just to enter a national???

I can see getting rid of any of last years dodgy batterys but not banning anything else (which probably would have been legal if submitted) from many years ago that has not proved a problem.

[losixxx]

don't imagine its a case of the brca banning them, more the manufactures didn't resubmit them for Homologation for the new ruling as they knew they wouldnt pass!

[ashleyb4]

i think im going to prepose lipo for 2009

A

[losixxx]

excellent ash, what were they like when you ran them in your 10th??

[ashleyb4]

I haven run one lol ive just heard good things and nimh would still be legal i thin kit would be good to allow both it would give a cheaper option for everyone to get top performance but i am looking at getting a trackpower saddle pack before i prepose it to give them a go. Im not jus going to propse it without trying them thats why i said i think.

A

[MattW]

the rules should of been implemented it at the time of the rule change, no grace, so we wouldn't be on the fourth incarnation of the IB cell....

Ok, it's a view. So, 12 months ago, we say all cells must now be under 43mm at all times. Hmm, trouble is, none available to buy. bugger.

Hence the theory behind 12months warning - to give manufactures chance to make cells to that spec - which they have.

[alrg500]

don't imagine its a case of the brca banning them, more the manufactures didn't resubmit them for Homologation for the new ruling as they knew they wouldnt pass!

Well I may be wrong but I thought GP3700's were smaller and lighter than GP4300's and I would imagine GP3300's were even smaller so surely if they they had been submitted they would have passed??
Basically any cell that wasnt submitted that was legal in the past becomes illegal anyway so its a big gain for the manufacturers to not bother submitting old cells knowing anything they sold in the last couple of years would become illegal to use??? and everybody would have to buy the latest cell?

[MattW]

You can't really submit old cells, because they aren't available to buy - so would fail the homologation process.

[losixxx]

you may well be right, the gp3700 is smaller than the 2007 gp4300, doesnt means its smaller than the revised 2008 spec gp4300 though...
unless every cell is taken through the same process that the cell's on the list are then i would imagine only those submitted this year were checked due to the new rule...i maybe wrong but IMO thats what's happened

[alrg500]

you may well be right, the gp3700 is smaller than the 2007 gp4300, doesnt means its smaller than the revised 2008 spec gp4300 though...
unless every cell is taken through the same process that the cell's on the list are then i would imagine only those submitted this year were checked due to the new rule...i maybe wrong but IMO thats what's happened

Fair enough but its an expensive maybe for racers that don't care about replacing there cells every year???

[DCM]

when the rule was changed, then that should of been that, any cell on the list should of had two years grace, not re-submitted and passed again. It would of forced matchers to look elsewhere for cells, it is funny how all these new cells have appeared all of a sudden.

thats my gripe, the cells I bought should never of been homologated in 2007.

[_JP_]

well I am going to have a fire in the back garden chuck the 20 packs I have on and use them as firecrackers :thumbsup:

[David Church]

It is a bummer many people's cells are not on the list, but we are only talking Nationals. Bear with me. Which means 5 runs per race day, not counting practice, which isnt scrutineerd.
Now 2 sets of new cells would easily do all the Nationals, thats 60 charges if you do all 6 which means each cell would be charged 30 times. Which is possible.
At the Worlds many top drivers wer only given 2 or 3 sets of new cells for the whole week. They never had any problems charging a set many times on the same day.
So yes you are going to have to buy new cells if yours are not on the list, but let's face it, the UK National series is the premire series in the UK and probably the premire series Euorpe!!!!!
I think most people could come up with enough money for 2 sets of cells, and use their other cells for the Regionals!!!!!!

[DaveG28]

This has got people going! I have two questions if anyone can help:

1. If the new cells are "slower", due to being smaller, is there any chance of them being made legal early. All my 2007 packs have died but 1, and I wanted to do the indoor finals. I don't really want to spend money on cells just for one meeting??

Secondly, Orion have 4200 SHO and also a separate 4200EU08 SHO, do we know if both are legal, the list confused me?

[David Church]

This has got people going! I have two questions if anyone can help:

1. If the new cells are "slower", due to being smaller, is there any chance of them being made legal early. All my 2007 packs have died but 1, and I wanted to do the indoor finals. I don't really want to spend money on cells just for one meeting??

Secondly, Orion have 4200 SHO and also a separate 4200EU08 SHO, do we know if both are legal, the list confused me?

You can use 2007 spec cells at the indoor finals, the new cell rule comes in after this event:)

[DaveG28]

Sorry Dave, my problem is all my 2007 spec ones are dying a death!! Either way I need to buy new batteries, but if I buy the 2007 spec they will be illegal after one meeting :(.

Having said that, if some of the manufacturers have made the new ones better I can totally see why they don't become immediately legal.

Dave

[losixxx]

This has got people going! I have two questions if anyone can help:

Secondly, Orion have 4200 SHO and also a separate 4200EU08 SHO, do we know if both are legal, the list confused me?


its only the 08 version blue/white heat shrink that will be legal!
part no ori 11562, pek43174 (top spec) pek 43173 (racer spec)

[DaveG28]

Phew, I have one of those so I gambled and it paid off there!

[B-Master]

"huge sigh" my cells packed up on me last week and i bit the bullet and orderd the new EP4600 before seeing this and was worried that i would get stuck but i am dead chuffed my cells are on the list i was worried for a while :)

[Mike Hudson]

My wallet has been dried up lately its so light it will blow away in the wind now after i get new cells :o after this my money better bump up again :) :thumbsup:

[mattym0310]

mike, wtf? :wtf:

[super__dan]

Stanton did a whole nationals season on 2 packs the other year, with common sense and a fan you can do that IMHO, I'm considering doing it on 3 packs and using current cells for regionals only.

I can understand people not being happy in certain circumstances but overall for drawing a line in the sand somewhere I think the BRCA have dealt with this very well. And the new cell list is excellent formatting!

Personally I'm interested by the not allowing NEEDING tools to remove cells, I didn't know that was coming.

[Doomanic]

What is this going to do to attendance at the EOY Finals?
Many racers at the F3/4/5s only race regionals so do not need new cell this year, but they will be forced to buy cells in September to enter.
Buying new cells in September is a bad idea apparently.

If Callum wants to race at the Juniors this year (he will) he will have to have legal cells. He currently uses very old GP33's and does not need the extra speed that new cells will give him.

[jimmy]

Good point Dom - Imagine vicky with some new cells :wtf: She's already running a 'barely legal' motor that was the slowest thing I could find and I'm not actually sure it's strictly speaking ever been on a list. Mabuchi 540 - but a new one.

[markwilliamson2001]

Good point dom.... Didn't really think about end of season finals!

Looks like theres no point in me racing at regionals this year, kinda wasted effort if I can't attend End of Year finals, as Dom points out.

Gutted :(

mark

[losixxx]

the list states that the cells are the only one's approved for 2008 national event's. not end of season finals/indoor final's/f2's/juniors-vets.
on the rule page the national's are classed as seperate type of event. in the past you havent been able to run brushless at national's but could at all other events so i would assume the case is the same with cell's

sure PW will confirm either way

[MiCk B.]

Personally I'm interested by the not allowing NEEDING tools to remove cells, I didn't know that was coming.

That's from the EFRA agm. Rule was adopted that all batteries needed to be wired with connectors, so no hard-wiring.
(Hard-wiring, needing a tool [soldering iron] to remove cells)

Driver and public safety was the reason behind this.

MiCk B. :-)

[Chris Doughty]

if the cells are going mental inside the car, there is no way im taking the shell of to remove them without tools, let the car burn.

[jimmy]

I think the idea is for when it's the car going mental not the cells.

[RogerM]

What is this going to do to attendance at the EOY Finals?
Many racers at the F3/4/5s only race regionals so do not need new cell this year, but they will be forced to buy cells in September to enter.
Buying new cells in September is a bad idea apparently.

If Callum wants to race at the Juniors this year (he will) he will have to have legal cells. He currently uses very old GP33's and does not need the extra speed that new cells will give him.


I am more than happy to lend Callum cells for the Juniors, after all you do enough for me!

I understand your point though mate .... it does need clarification as to if the cells for the EOY finals and Juniors need to be to national spec .... I'd not considered that!

[DaveG28]

I'm with Doughty, if one of mine is going up I'd rather replace the car than my eye or fingers!!

I know this is slightly off topic, but am interested in some people being able to get through these meetings on 2 sets of cells. Am I missing something, I am happy to use multiple times in one day, but by the time I have marshalled, then discharged the remaining 1500mah out of the battery, then equalised it, then waited an hour and a quater for it to charge (which I have to do before putting the next battery on to discharge), I need at least 3 to always have a charged set available. Am I just equalising too often, or do other people use 2 chargers/discharegrs/equalisers each?

[Southwell]

I just recharge mine during race meetings. I equalise once every few weeks, but thats mainly because im lazy :D

[RogerM]

I have been told to just let them cool and then recharge from part charged state. Only Equilising every couple of weeks as I have been told that it can put excessive strain on the cells and is worse for them in the long run if done too often.

Helps I am only charging at less than 1C and still have 2000+ left at the end of the run as cool down time is less many.

[DCM]

this ruling has just been poorly handled. I will reiterate the fact that my cells, that I bought in Sept last year, were homologated for the list in 2007 an are now not legal. When the rule change was done, it should of been implemented at that time and given a grace period for the over size cells to filter out. Now there will be a rush for the new cells, and call me a cynic, but I can't see any of the big firms offering 'budget' cells until after the initial rush.

I still reckon we will have the same issue with the new cells to, and out of that list there will be one top performer too.

And Dom has made a valid point, the Juniors, F2's and F3/4/5's are classed as a national event, so the cell listing will be in place, the only one that misses out this year is the Indoor Finals. So, if my kids wanted and were good enough to attend the Juniors, we would need new cells.

[DaveG28]

I have been told to just let them cool and then recharge from part charged state. Only Equilising every couple of weeks as I have been told that it can put excessive strain on the cells and is worse for them in the long run if done too often.

Helps I am only charging at less than 1C and still have 2000+ left at the end of the run as cool down time is less many.

Anyone else heard this too?? I have been equalising after each run, and discharging after each run too, am I better only doing this infrequently?

[Wraggy]

Anyone else heard this too?? I have been equalising after each run, and discharging after each run too, am I better only doing this infrequently?

i do similar to southwell, i will reuse a pack i used in pratice and just recharge with what was left in them after the practice ,
have been since sept 06 and the packs are all still going (smc IB 4200)
will have to get new ones now though but only because i wont be able to use them at nationals .

[jim76]

i usually discharge/equalise after each meeting, having used the cells at least twice that day topping up between races. cells are fine after 6 months

[spenner]

The Raceplace are doing the following:

We have deals on these packs, so to get your order in Tel: 01462 684859


Team Almighty 'World' Ener-G 4600MAH
Orion 'SHO' 4200MAH

Coming Soon.......
Raceplace Matched Cells

Contact the shop for details.
All deals and prices will be on the web site soon!!!

We can have your Ener-G cells pre built for you in any config.

[super__dan]

Ref equalising (all personal opinion);

My current cells go out of balance over 1 week through self discharge, this is notable after discharging to 6.0V and then equalising on a Smart Tray. So each WEEK my cells get equalised on the day before charge. However if they were to be used again on the same day they surely can't go out of balance that quick so I would just top up.

So if I was using packs more than once a day they would come back from race (marshal) and get put in front of a small fan I have which though won't cool the cores quickly is bound to help. Then if topping up they're never likely to need more than 40-45mins charge. So between 2 rounds at nationals there is like 3 hours so you could do it on 2 packs, 3 easily.

Personally I have seperate discharger, equaliser and charger. It does make things Much easier.

[Jim Spencer]

Well I may be wrong but I thought GP3700's were smaller and lighter than GP4300's and I would imagine GP3300's were even smaller so surely if they they had been submitted they would have passed??
Basically any cell that wasnt submitted that was legal in the past becomes illegal anyway so its a big gain for the manufacturers to not bother submitting old cells knowing anything they sold in the last couple of years would become illegal to use??? and everybody would have to buy the latest cell?

Hi All

I new if I did enough rummaging i'd find this sort of post..
Cells under 3.7ah don't come under homologation at all anymore - you can use those at all events.
(See BRCA > Electric Board > Homologation > Batteries, rule 2.6)
Oddly I have a few packs of GP37's lying around somewhere - might have to dust them down.. :D

[Mike Hudson]

Hi All

I new if I did enough rummaging i'd find this sort of post..
Cells under 3.7ah don't come under homologation at all anymore - you can use those at all events.
(See BRCA > Electric Board > Homologation > Batteries, rule 2.6)
Oddly I have a few packs of GP37's lying around somewhere - might have to dust them down.. :D

Does this mean you can use anything including 37's and below?

[Jim Spencer]

Does this mean you can use anything including 37's and below?

Yes.

[Jim Spencer]

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.

You can run any cell from 3.7AH down at ANY sanctioned events, Nationals, regionals etc etc etc

[DCM]

now that opens up a lot more possibilities....

[Mike Hudson]

Thats a relief :D:woot: this should bring a fair few racers out from the underworld :lol:

[Jim Spencer]

Hi All

Quite surprised that this has caught some of you out, there has been plenty of discussion about this around.

I think everybody is aware of the problems 'growing' 4.2's have had on everybody concerned, the decision at the end of 2006 was well documented then and has been kicked to death on various forums since..

So yes if you bought new cells at the very end of the 2007 season that was probably a bit of a mistake..
But
Suggest you put a 'for sale' note in the 1/12 community as their Euro's (end of their season) in the spring is too 2007 cell lists and they'll be struggling to find any that arn't dead by then..

Dunno about you lot but I didn't get any cells to last more than 6 months from the last lot anyway..

Hopefully the new spec the manufacturers have had to do will rectify that too.

[JCJC]

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.

You can run any cell from 3.7AH down at ANY sanctioned events, Nationals, regionals etc etc etc

Thanks Jim Spencer, and welcome to the forum, our 3300's & 3700's live for at least another season. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Mike Hudson]

I've got a few 3.3's and a few 3.7's that ive had for atleast 2 years! and they are still going strong one of them still perfect with plenty of punch and capacity :) Thanks for the cell update jim, will save alot of people a fair amount of dosh:thumbsup:

[DCM]

my original IB42's (from the original batch at the start of the 4200mAh range) lasted me till then and was showing signs of failure. And was happy to buy more, as I have said before, those cells that were on the list carried over each year. I guess now we will see a 'silly season' for cell buying.

Anyone want 5 packs of hardly used 6 cell IB42's lol

[alrg500]

Hi All

I new if I did enough rummaging i'd find this sort of post..
Cells under 3.7ah don't come under homologation at all anymore - you can use those at all events.
(See BRCA > Electric Board > Homologation > Batteries, rule 2.6)
Oddly I have a few packs of GP37's lying around somewhere - might have to dust them down.. :D


Now that is the news I wanted to hear:D

[David Church]

Just a thought, but do you guys that are complaining alot actualy read the rules before complaining???
As it has just been said by Jim that 3700's are ok to use, now I didn't know this, I don't read the rules, but i try not to complain, well too much, lol.
So this should help out a fair few of ya!!!!!!! If you have 3700's that is, and if you do have 3700's and complained....well..... shame on you!!!:lol:

[OldTimer]

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.


So are taking it that the above means black and white that GP3700's are legal ?


As the way i read it yesterday our cells do have the OEM heatshrink so are not legal. And i would class the original suppliers label being some one like Losi / Fastrac etc not the oem ie GP.


It would be nice if PW would confirm if GP3700 are legal to be use at Nationals or not :thumbsup:

David, some of us do read the rules, but they are not always clear lol.

[losixxx]

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.

You can run any cell from 3.7AH down at ANY sanctioned events, Nationals, regionals etc etc etc

jim are you sure this doesnt mean the like's of stick packs etc as it states sports/starter level packs. i doubt matched gp3700's would be deemed sports pack's?

[Jim Spencer]

jim are you sure this doesnt mean the like's of stick packs etc as it states sports/starter level packs. i doubt matched gp3700's would be deemed sports pack's?

Nope, to my understanding the full stop in the middle of the rule differentiates it to mean..
You can have branded cells (joe bloggs racing etc etc) up to 3.7's and OEM marked ones too..
Perhaps not the clearest wording in the world though - will ask for it to be edited.

Though please bear in mind this has only come out today we're bound to find the odd typo..

[xx4-nutter]

Lets just have it done with and use duracells :P

[David Church]

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.


So are taking it that the above means black and white that GP3700's are legal ?


As the way i read it yesterday our cells do have the OEM heatshrink so are not legal. And i would class the original suppliers label being some one like Losi / Fastrac etc not the oem ie GP.


It would be nice if PW would confirm if GP3700 are legal to be use at Nationals or not :thumbsup:

David, some of us do read the rules, but they are not always clear lol.


True Johnathon, got me there, but I would just say cut the plastic heatshrink off????

[RogerM]

up to 3700s are ok .... DAMN!!!!

I was hoping the cell rules would mean less people would apply for nationals so I'd have a better chance of getting in!!!!! :)

[dave p hall]

sorry to sound thick:woot:but never heared the term (oem heat shrink)is this the heatshrink on an individual cell,or the heatshrink which covers the whole pack,which is on preasembled stick packs:confused:would just like to know as im considering sanyo's 3600 competion spec loose cells:woot:reason being,i think the high capacity's 4200 etc... are part of the problem with cell failures.to much for the cells to acomodate:confused:

[Mike Hudson]

sorry to sound thick:woot:but never heared the term (oem heat shrink)is this the heatshrink on an individual cell,or the heatshrink which covers the whole pack,which is on preasembled stick packs:confused:would just like to know as im considering sanyo's 3600 competion spec loose cells:woot:reason being,i think the high capacity's 4200 etc... are part of the problem with cell failures.to much for the cells to acomodate:confused:

this is the macufacturer heatshrink already on the cells i believe:confused: correct me if im wrong

[Wraggy]

OEM = original equipment manufacturer

[David Church]

OEM = original equipment manufacturer

Do you think running these cells without the heatshrink helps them run cooler? Is this why they say without heatshrink????
But all is making much more sense now, haha:)

[mark christopher]

Unfortunately (well fortunately depending on how you look at it) looks that another major line will have to be drawn maybe 2010 ? for lipo, what do you guys think...?
why wait till 2010? TC have em now!
i think im going to prepose lipo for 2009

A

good on you ash

excellent ash, what were they like when you ran them in your 10th??


ask Chris Doughty, Neil Cragg, Tom Cockerill. Chris long all ran em at worksop and made the A, Neil won too and added no weight to the car!!

[super__dan]

Nope, to my understanding the full stop in the middle of the rule differentiates it to mean..
You can have branded cells (joe bloggs racing etc etc) up to 3.7's and OEM marked ones too..Perhaps not the clearest wording in the world though - will ask for it to be edited.

Though please bear in mind this has only come out today we're bound to find the odd typo..


See above in bold

[losixxx]

See above in bold

that's jim's interpretation of the rule. not the actual wording! i don't think it means that, i would say gp3700's etc matched are not legal just sports/clubman packs ie stick packs however i would wait for confirmation from the BRCA

[_JP_]

OMG I just had to get a pack back out of the fire, they made good firecrackers!

LOL

[super__dan]

Removed as I was wrong (put it in your diarries).

[losixxx]

But doesn't Jim write the rules, so it's his interpretation that matters?

not if his interpretation is wrong!

[Chrislong]

not if his interpretation is wrong!

But how can it be wrong, if he wrote the rules? Surely he isn't just the typist, so he likely thought about them too.

[OldTimer]

I thought Paul Worsley was the BRCA Electric Board Homologation Officer, i would guess he wrote the rules but i could be wrong :)

[terry.sc]

The OEM heatshrink is the heatshrink the cells are covered in as they come from the manufacturer.

In the case of sport packs the cells are sold only to the trade and aren't covered in heatshrink at all, just a cardboard tube. In those cases the whole pack must have a label on it by whichever company builds the pack. The pack assemblers label needs to be intact so the cells can be identified, if you take off the heatshrink holding the pack together there is no way of identifying the individual cells at all so the pack is now illegal for racing.

The rule is so the cells capacity can be identified, otherwise there is nothing to stop someone building a stick pack from last years IB4200s by replacing the cells heatshrink with a plain one so there's no way of identifying the cells.
It also stops any manufacturer putting together special team packs from unlabelled cells that aren't homologated.:eh?:

The way the rule is written, taking it literally, only cells covered in cardboard will be allowed, and only when covered in heatshrink with a makers label on it. I suspect as any ready built pack of 3700s are allowed and individual cells can be identified as 3700s then they are likely to be allowed. It would have to be a very pedantic scrutineer to ban them.




And this does mean the BRCA considers GP3700s as a sport pack:lol:

[terry.sc]

But doesn't Jim write the rules, so it's his interpretation that matters?
No, the members write the rules at the AGM, and it's up to the electric board to interpret them. BTW Jim officially just looks after the finances.

[jimmy]

Neil won too and added no weight to the car!!


I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.

[Jim Spencer]

As per Terry above..

Correct.

The wording is a touch out of date that's all.
In the past sport packs tended to end up as per the description above, quite often now the heatshrink is clear.. and yup I can buy GP37's as sport packs locally - they're good value too.
It's refered to as the Grandfather rule in the EB and the cut aff AmpHour has slowly increased alongside cell capacity, now for 2008 it's up to 3.7ah.

No I don't write the rules - but I do know the folks to ask, as do most of you - in addition though I tend to get exposed to most of the rules most of the time so get to know how things work, and why.

I'm 'technically' the Association Treasurer, and the treasurer for a couple of the sections including 1/12 circuit.
Part of the treasurers role is dealing with all aspects of the Insurance, the legal side, the sports liason side etc - hence the details of the rules and the knowledge of the specialist committee's such as the EB and I asked Paul too :D

As per about 20 posts ago, the wording needs a look at IMHO, as it's a touch confusing - made sense when 'sport' packs were packaged differently - just needs a small update - it'll happen.

[DCM]

why wait till 2010? TC have em now!

Where are the rules for them, and a list of cells, or is this the same as the 10.5 debate....

[Chris Doughty]

I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.

your both right, he ran with and without weight, so did I, with weight was the best by far.

in the final we both added 15g on top of the servo, I think Neil ran this in round4.

if I could run the day again, I would add much more weight back into the car.

back on topic of 2008 batteries, I enjoy running LiPo, but I will just follow whatever the BRCA go with.

I will follow, I will not push to get something changed and potentially spoil a season for many people, I have talked to Paul about rule changes quite a bit and I know he thinks things through very clearly and has the interest of 'everyone' as much as possible.

I am sure there will be the odd big race during the year where LiPo will be allowed.

[jimmy]

Ah ok, I only ever saw his car with the lead on - not sure when he added it but I didn't look at it early in the day. he had lead in the rear triangles and a big lump atop the servo

[Chris Doughty]

lead in the triangles (and in front of the gearbox) is used everywhere no matter what cells are used.

he added 15g on the servo for round4 I think, I added 15g on my servo for the finals and it made a massive differance, I was actually able to complete a run almost error free :eh?:

I will definately weight up my car to full SubC weight next time out.

[Northy]

The rule is so the cells capacity can be identified, otherwise there is nothing to stop someone building a stick pack from last years IB4200s by replacing the cells heatshrink with a plain one so there's no way of identifying the cells.
It also stops any manufacturer putting together special team packs from unlabelled cells that aren't homologated.:eh?:

Can't this still be done? A 'special' pack could be made of last years cells as long as the label on the outside said the cells under the heatshrink were 3700mAh or less? :eh?:

Just being pedantic back :lol:

G

[super__dan]

Bit of an error on my behalf earlier, I got mixed a little. Apologies to Jim and or Paul (if needed). Any questions about EB matters should go to Paul Worsley direct!

[CharlieF]

Somewhat lost in this thread now - post 154 (Dom) and post 157 (Chris) - discussed cells for the end of season finals in 2008. Glad to confirm Chris's view that 2007 cells will be OK for these events.
Regards
Charlie

[Doomanic]

Thanks for that Charlie.:thumbsup:
Callum will be pleased and my wallet is relieved.:lol:

[Gaz_Stanton]

Stanton did a whole nationals season on 2 packs the other year, with common sense and a fan you can do that IMHO, I'm considering doing it on 3 packs and using current cells for regionals only.

Yeah, totally. This myth of "needing" 6/8/10 packs is a hangover from the once-a-day-run yellow SCE's from years ago. Not really applicable now as providing there is time between rounds (like there is at a Nat, which is what we are talking about here) then you only need one charging whilst you use the other. I prefer having a back-up so 3 packs is all i use.

I wish everyone would stop whinging about minor details here!!! :mad: If you look at the bigger picture here i'm sure it has been a very good achievement by PW et al.

With reports of all these cells going pop in a big way, in these days of liability etc, there could easily have been a knee-jerk reaction to ban electric racing until these were made safe.
But IMHO the BRCA EB board, who only represent a very small share of the cell market, have actually managed to use the rules to influence the manufacturers to produce new verions of the cells seen as most risky, which should be safer for us all.
It means we can all carry on racing and has meant a positive step forward in reducing the risk of serious accident.
I'm sure a couple of new cells packs is cheaper than paying for an op to remove the shrapnal from your old ones...

[DCM]

I for one don't believe in any way that new cells are being made for our market, just that new sources and different lines of cells were looked at. And aybe with the market for NiMH getting smaller, manufacturers are willing to tighten up tolerances on a cell on the provision that they sell X thousands of units....

[terry.sc]

Can't this still be done? A 'special' pack could be made of last years cells as long as the label on the outside said the cells under the heatshrink were 3700mAh or less? :eh?:
Yes it could be done as long as it's a proper manufacturers label on it, writing 3700mah on with a marker won't work:lol: If any manufacturer tried this and they were caught they wouldn't be in r/c racing any more.

Good luck to anyone who can remove a label off a sport pack and transfer it to a home built pack with no sign of damage to it.:eh?:

[Spencer Mulcahy]

So to make it clear I have some old 3300 that where in a sport pack that I converted to side saddle will I be able to use these cells. Is it the paper sticker that needs to be on the cell that says all the charge and discharge rates cheers.

[mark christopher]

I agree with you on your lipo love - but no, neil certainly did have added weight on his car.
later on he did! over the normal they run
Where are the rules for them, and a list of cells, or is this the same as the 10.5 debate....
never know as its a brca thing try www.brca.org (http://www.brca.org)!!

lead in the triangles (and in front of the gearbox) is used everywhere no matter what cells are used.

he added 15g on the servo for round4 I think, I added 15g on my servo for the finals and it made a massive differance, I was actually able to complete a run almost error free :eh?:

I will definately weight up my car to full SubC weight next time out.

chris we had two strips of lead on our b4, suck on its side between the battery strap post and rear triangle brace stuck to the outside of the cell brace each side of the cell ( can post pic if thats not clear) and 10 grams at the servo, over the worksop meetings this has proven the best choice and best handling

[mark christopher]

For use in the Touring Car Pro-Stock Class Only


1. Lithium Polymer (a.k.a. Li-Poly/LiPo) battery packs must have a hard, protective case that completely envelopes the cell(s). The maximum case size is as follows: -
Length: 139.0mm.
Width: 47.0mm.

Height: 25.0mm.

(Height excludes the mouldings on the bottom of the case that help locate the battery pack in the car).

2. The maximum retail price for the year starting 1st.Jan. 2008 is £80.00.

3. Individual cells used in the construction of the battery shall be rated at 3.7 volts nominal and the pack shall be 2 cells in series.
4. The battery pack shall have leads extending from the case for the positive and negative electrical connections using wire of adequate size to handle discharge rates acceptable to racing applications. Alternatively, the case shall have external connection points for these wires clearly marked positive and negative so the user can apply the lead wires.

5. The case must have the original suppliers label intact, stating the rated voltage and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 5,000 mah. The Brand name/logo shall be easily readable.

6. For 2008 there will be a rolling homologation list (as per. motors).

7. All LiPo packs must be charged with a LiPo-capable charger using the industry standard CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) charge profile.

8. LiPo batteries may be charged to a maximum of 8.40V +/-0.04V. Overcharging is a serious safety hazard and will not be tolerated.



Please read the guide to safe use of LiPo batteries :- ‘Safe use of LiPo Batteries’ (above).

[Chris Doughty]

cheers Mark, I saw them, and I have finally worked out that it was you sitting behind me, damn im slow on the uptake! haha.

[mark christopher]

cheers Mark, I saw them, and I have finally worked out that it was you sitting behind me, damn im slow on the uptake! haha.
lol nice for somone to know it was not me!!
i was notthe driver of the b4 that was lee, i was sat back to back with you

[DaveG28]

I assume there is no chance of making the 2008 cells legal for the indoor finals though? Just if they are in theory going to be slower anyway, and some of us need to buy batteries as our current ones are dead?

[Chris Doughty]

lol nice for somone to know it was not me!!
i was notthe driver of the b4 that was lee, i was sat back to back with you

Yes, I worked out who you both were on monday! :eh?:

[losixxx]

interesting battery test blog!

http://jdracing.blogs.se/2008/01/08/orion_sho_eu_2nd_practice~3545664

[James]

Can someone answer whether you can use 2007 IB's for practice at nationals?

[Chrislong]

Hey James, Practice is not scrutineered, you can use any cells or even Lipo if you wish to.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

interesting battery test blog!

http://jdracing.blogs.se/2008/01/08/orion_sho_eu_2nd_practice~3545664

He's not following BRCA guidelines is he :thumbdown:

6 amps, with a 7.5 repeak, he must be :woot:

[LEGEND]

May i ask, this new list that has been published. Are these the only cells that you can use or are these just the new ones, as i am getting a bit confused with everything that is going on.:confused:

[losixxx]

they are the only cell's you can use at this year's national's! you can use all cell's that were on last year's list at any other event

[JCJC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Spencer http://www.oople.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?p=89088#post89088)
Hi All

I new if I did enough rummaging i'd find this sort of post..
Cells under 3.7ah don't come under homologation at all anymore - you can use those at all events.
(See BRCA > Electric Board > Homologation > Batteries, rule 2.6)
Oddly I have a few packs of GP37's lying around somewhere - might have to dust them down.. :D


Looking at rule 2.6 again:

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.

Seems to me that cells upto and including 3700mah will be allowed as well as those on the "list" assuming Nationals are sanctioned events.

[losixxx]

your wrong try actually reading the battery list on the electric board section of the BRCA site!!!! your answer is there jcjc!

[RogerM]

I'm not sure JCJC is wrong actually Chris .... that is exactly how I read that rule too!

[losixxx]

as i said READ the electric board list

ONLY CELLS DETAILED BELOW ARE APPROVED FOR BRCA NATIONAL EVENTS IN 2008

FFS

[RogerM]

Plus those covered by rule 2.6 .... or else why would there be a rule 2.6 containing the wording it does???

The easiest thing to do is to check with Paul, sure he'll be only too happy to clarify the situation. If I don't get chance before I'll speak to him at Kiddy and post up his exact response.

[losixxx]

no roger,

ONLY CELLS DETAILED BELOW ARE APPROVED FOR BRCA NATIONAL EVENTS IN 2008

no others for national's.

[RogerM]

calm down Chris. I'm going to ask Paul anyway and will post what he says in this thread.

[losixxx]

calm down Chris. I'm going to ask Paul anyway and will post what he says in this thread.

rog i don't need to calm down you need to read, the give away is the first word of the quote 'ONLY' ....it doesnt say these cell's plus

[jim76]

you're wrong Chris. rule 2.6 does cover additional cells. But only sport packs up to 3700mah.
Indivual cell matched packs with OEM heatshrink will not be allowed by the letter of the law, but hopefully Paul W will confirm how picky the scrutineers will be.

read the rules before shouting in big red ink.

[losixxx]

we'll see!

[terry.sc]

Chris
From the homologation rules, as you like red:

2.6 In addition to batteries included on the homologation list, sports/starter level packs of cells that do not have OEM heatshrink, will be allowed at BRCA sanctioned events. These packs must have the original suppliers label intact, stating that they are NiCd or NiMH and the pack capacity. Maximum capacity is 3700mah. These batteries will be allowed at sanctioned events from 1st. Jan. 2008.

As you've pointed out above in big red letters
ONLY CELLS DETAILED BELOW ARE APPROVED FOR BRCA NATIONAL EVENTS IN 2008
The cells on the list are the only ones that are approved for racing, in other words the only ones that are homologated. It does not say the only cells allowed.

[losixxx]

terry im one of the few who have actually read the rule's. brca sanctioned events cover regionals/endofseason's etc. the electric board quite clear states that only the cells on the new list published are national legal.......there are no and's if''s or but's.....

[jim76]

so nationals are no longer BRCA sanctioned?

[Doomanic]

You can run any cell from 3.7AH down at ANY sanctioned events, Nationals, regionals etc etc etc

This needs confirmation from the EB.
Then all the bickering can stop.

[showtime]

oh.

is there a new list of approved batteries or something? :)

[Chris Green]

interesting battery test blog!

http://jdracing.blogs.se/2008/01/08/orion_sho_eu_2nd_practice~3545664

Yes, an interesting read.

Why would he be re-peaking? I thought that was a big no-no, and has been for a while with the latest cells? I guess its just to keep the cell temperature up?

[JCJC]

your wrong try actually reading the battery list on the electric board section of the BRCA site!!!! your answer is there jcjc!

No, I have read the list, and have a copy on my desktop, I have also read all (well;)) of the posts on oOple, RaceChat & Doughty, I can see that most of em are guestimates and opinion. But if Jim Spencer quotes a rule that seems to carry a bit more weight for me.

But like most of us racers, I would expect this sort of thing to be easy to understand and I would expect to be sure of what cells can or cannot be used, I am forming the opinion that a short list of cells we cannot use would have been easier. I know there is lots of time untill the start of the season and not all shops have stocks etc, but I cannot see any reason not to discuss our understanding of the rules and how it affects us/me.

If up to 3700's are allowed, say at least at regional level, for 2008, will that threashold be raised to say 4200 for the 2009 season, or am I being silly.

Mick

[JCJC]

oh.

is there a new list of approved batteries or something? :)


Its on its way Daahhhn Saahhhff :D

[MK999]

If you make a short list of what batteries can't be used, you start getting homemade cocktails, which instead of IB's going bang take out small cities :woot:

[JCJC]

If you make a short list of what batteries can't be used, you start getting homemade cocktails, which instead of IB's going bang take out small cities :woot:

Sorry, I just threw that one in, I do need to know that our racing is as safe as we can make it, safe batteries and electrics are required, I havent been anywhere near a bang and do not want to be.

[MK999]

I have been once, my chassis made one hell of a bang last weekend :eh?:

[Southwell]

I havent been anywhere near a bang and do not want to be.

I have, i would of had a cell in my face 3 seconds after i moved my head if i didnt move. Someone elses cells went critical and i tried to unplug them. :woot: