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Old 28-06-2014
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bedsrcmcc bedsrcmcc is offline
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Exclamation Is technology outpacing driver skill?

It’s the elephant in the room that no one seems to want to give an honest answer to, so I’m going to put my head above the trench and see what happens!

I’ve been racing at club level now for more than 35 years and yes I still have the bug for RC racing. Even after time away from racing to have a family, I’m back again doing what I love week in week out. Like a stick of rock, cut me in half and I have ‘Club Racer’ running all the way through me. I have no intention of doing regionals or nationals, it’s just not my thing (have done them many years ago now and never liked it – drivers taking it far too seriously) but if that’s your thing I have no objections to you doing it and good luck in the big regionals that you enter yourself into.

So let’s get back to what makes me tick – CLUB RACING. This is about like-minded racers turning out at their local club each week to have some fun, enjoy some pit side banter and also on track action. We all go home, hopefully, having had a great evening (or day) of racing and look forward to doing it all again in 7 days. These clubs run their own Championships which we all participate in and hopefully walk away at the end with a little bit of plastic with our name engraved on a little brass plaque. If we don’t get one it doesn’t matter because that’s not why we turned up in the first place. Club racers go racing for fun and they want to have some great wheel to wheel racing on track and that’s that.

OK, so I’ve set the scene, now let me introduce the elephant in the room – Brushless/LiPo technology.

Yes, the Brushless/LiPo technology has changed the face of RC racing, in the main for the very good of our hobby. However there is a darker side to this technology, especially when it comes to electronics and that is the feeling I have that the technology is increasing at a far faster rate than driver skill is which means we are getting faster and faster cars and RC drivers who are unable to control these cars at such increased speeds, especially those who are new to the hobby.

I see it week in week out at our own club (and I’m sure we are not the only club that experience these issues) where those new to the RC hobby are kitting themselves out with equipment that far far exceeds their driving ability. It makes me laugh when I see people spending £100’s on equipment when they haven’t even learnt how to drive a car around a corner, let alone a lap, without either hitting the track edging or a competitors car! I feel like a scratched record when I say week in week out – drive slower and you’ll improve your lap times.

It also makes me laugh that I see members having spent a fortune on the very latest Hobbywing ESC and the latest motor and the hottest new LiPos that have zillions of amps and mega buckets of capacity available to them at the flick of a switch! Funny then that the expensive ESC has to run at its slowest setting (blinky) to even race in the class - GT12 in this case. So why do they do it – Simples (as a well-known Meerkat would say) it’s because they see highly skilled drivers with years of experience behind them (often sponsored drivers too) who have all the latest kit and they think they must be driving so well because they have all the best kit – WRONG. The best piece of kit they have at their disposal are the hands/brain that have hold of the transmitter on the rostrum and no amount of money can give you that.

I came up with a potential solution for the problem at the club I run with the introduction of a ‘Back to Basics’ class which has now morphed into a class I call 1:12 Trucks. The focus is on the driver and not the kit so we run a cheap standard Core ESC, basic Core LiPo (3200 only) and a 17.5 Stock Speed Passion motor (no other motor allowed). The racing in this class which we introduced for the first time for our club’s Spring Championship that has just finished has been fantastic. The drivers come off the rostrum after each race with huge grins on their faces. Whoever says that racing ‘slow’ RC cars is boring needs their head sorted. I haven’t had so much fun with RC racing for a long time and it takes me back to the good old days of what got me into RC racing in the first place – the fun factor.

Now this is the big issue in my mind that the manufacturers need to be made aware of. The future of RC racing relies on us all getting the PlayStation Generation out of their bedrooms and racing wheel to wheel with others. We have seen members come and go at our club and two main reasons why members leave are – fed up of being hit by other drivers and the fun factor is being taken over by a competitive win at all costs atmosphere.

What the hobby needs (and I hope a manufacturer is reading this) is for all the companies to work together to produce a Clubman’s standard set of motors, LiPos and ESCs that are simple plug and play items that have no means of being adjusted or upgraded firmware added to them, but are built to the same high quality standards of their more expensive and functionally enhanced products. Drivers can choice their preferred brand but in the knowledge that a Clubman’s Novak is the same spec as a Reedy one, or Hobbywing one. That way, clubs up and down the country where the vast majority of 1000’s of RC racers enjoy their hobby can help nurture the talent and members of tomorrow.

Don’t get me wrong, I love racing RC cars and racing them fast (but they are being run fast and under control), but I’m also keen to ensure we can encourage new blood into the hobby and keep them coming back week after week and provide them with the kit that will allow them to learn how to drive before they even think of going fast.

OK, rant over

However I would be interested to read what others think about this topic…
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Old 29-06-2014
mattr mattr is offline
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Originally Posted by bedsrcmcc View Post
However I would be interested to read what others think about this topic…
You should have used the search function. This comes up in one form or other every few weeks. :wink:
In summary:
You can't change people, they always want the shiniest toys they can afford.
Most clubs have some sort of clubman class anyway, if people want to use over specced kit for it, it's their look out.
Give better advice to new starters.
Doesn't really apply to all classes. Slow motors in 1800 gram 4wd buggies outdoors is a bit dull. Slow motors in sub-kilo gt12, pan cars etc indoors isn't actually all that Slow.

Other than that, people who race classes/facilities that suit clubman style racing agree, people who race classes/facilities that don't suit clubman, disagree.
FWIW, I'd prefer a clubman style of racing when we drive indoors, a 6.5t motor is far too much grunt, outdoors, I'd get bored with anything much slower than a boosted 10.5t, it'd take 10 seconds to get down the straight.
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Old 29-06-2014
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bedsrcmcc bedsrcmcc is offline
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Completely agree about outdoor off-roading, you do need a fairly quicker setup.

We always try to inform newbies about the perils of going too fast too soon and not spending a fortune when it simply is not needed.

We did a random check on some cars recently and found that some drivers had not even calibrated their ESC. That's why I stand by my thoughts that the manufacturers have to do their bit to help those new to the hobby by providing plug and play equipment that makes it easy for those new to the hobby get their first foot on the ladder.

However it seems that SPEED sells and therefore these ideas will probably fall on deaf ears
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Old 29-06-2014
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Originally Posted by bedsrcmcc View Post



It also makes me laugh that I see members having spent a fortune on the very latest Hobbywing ESC and the latest motor and the hottest new LiPos that have zillions of amps and mega buckets of capacity available to them at the flick of a switch! Funny then that the expensive ESC has to run at its slowest setting (blinky) to even race in the class - GT12 in this case. So why do they do it – Simples (as a well-known Meerkat would say) it’s because they see highly skilled drivers with years of experience behind them (often sponsored drivers too) who have all the latest kit and they think they must be driving so well because they have all the best kit – WRONG. The best piece of kit they have at their disposal are the hands/brain that have hold of the transmitter on the rostrum and no amount of money can give you that.


However I would be interested to read what others think about this topic…
your sig line....


Current classes/cars I race in:
GT12: Schumacher SupaStox : XERUN V3.1 ESC | Thunder Power 13.5 Motor | Futaba 2.4GHz | Intellect LiPo



Says it all!!
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Old 29-06-2014
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bedsrcmcc bedsrcmcc is offline
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I couldn't agree more

However, I can drive it around a track without hitting the track on every corner

My point is really aimed at beginners, not RC drivers who've been racing for 35 years though...

Having said that, I've rested the GT12 for the last Club Championship to focus on the 1:12 Trucks that I introduced to the club and believe me, I've never had so much fun with the basic setup. Last Friday's meeting was one of the best meetings I've ever had in 35 years with some sensational wheel to wheel racing with fellow 1:12 Truck racer Al Petts We both came away from racing with HUGE
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Old 29-06-2014
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I see a similar thing at our club especially with the smaller eighteenth scale buggies. They are seriously fast and the less experienced racers just smash into things and cause chaos. I tell people to go slower and not crash and over the five minute race they will improve their times drastically but most never listen. I also have noticed that some of the ready to run cars that turn up are also rockets in a straight line and far too fast for the people using them. I think that even the basic brushless electronics today are now so powerful that beginners struggle to cope with the speed or power delivery.
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Old 29-06-2014
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bedsrcmcc bedsrcmcc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adey View Post
I also have noticed that some of the ready to run cars that turn up are also rockets in a straight line and far too fast for the people using them. I think that even the basic brushless electronics today are now so powerful that beginners struggle to cope with the speed or power delivery.
My point exactly - manufacturers I guess just want to sell equipment, but it would be great if they considered the club scene too.

I've heard that the BRCA are thinking of introducing a slower clubmans class for GT12 - but how do we deal with members who've got faster setups? They will not be going out and getting the slower motors - so what class do you put them into?
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Old 29-06-2014
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There isn't any real advantage to running an expensive LiPo or and expensive ESC in a blinky class - the problem is that people see the fastest cars running those parts and perceive it is the electrics, whereas really it is the time spent in setting up the powerplant and the skill in driving it.

I don't think that 1s 13.5 GT12 is particularly fast, it is still a driveable class for all the abilities I have seen trying it.

In touring, I don't think that 17.5 2s is too fast either. All abilities that I have seen can cope with the cars, yes there are some very fast cars in the class but again that is down to time spent on prep and driving rather than the superiority of any particular electronics.

Technology hasn't made RC too fast or too expensive. Brushless and LiPo have actually made the (longer-term) costs far cheaper. The cars are a good speed - it is people that make it expensive!
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Old 29-06-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedsrcmcc View Post
My point exactly - manufacturers I guess just want to sell equipment, but it would be great if they considered the club scene too.

I've heard that the BRCA are thinking of introducing a slower clubmans class for GT12 - but how do we deal with members who've got faster setups? They will not be going out and getting the slower motors - so what class do you put them into?

the manufactures don't force users to buy, clubs are capable of running "spec classes if they so desire, look at the rc10 class in the oople series...
or are you saying manufactures don't make budget gear? in your op you mention hobbywing, so lets look, they do a speedo for £40, so not their fault users buy a high end speedo.

Gt12 indeed does have two classes (rules done in june at egm)
super cup, car mods allowed 13.5 motor
production cup, car mods allowed 17.5

so to answer your question put them in the correct class!
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