Go Back   oOple.com Forums > General > General Race Chat

View Poll Results: What you guys recon -
Yes - 4wd designed cars should be allowed to run as 2wd cars 105 39.47%
No - 4wd designed cars should not be allowed run as 2wd cars 107 40.23%
Not bothered 54 20.30%
Voters: 266. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 29-07-2013
Neil Skull's Avatar
Neil Skull Neil Skull is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,047
Default

Interesting Thread,
Especially coming back from the National where many of the Top teams and racers in the country was racing 4wd cars with the front drive removed!!! Still it was 1 and 2 for proper 2wd cars.
It was also funny to see 4wd cars on Sunday running 2wd wheels. I think 8 out of 10 A finalist ran this way!!!
Will we go back to the old days where there was only one class of racing?
__________________


Kyosho UK

www.kyoshoeurope.com
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29-07-2013
Dudders's Avatar
Dudders Dudders is offline
SHRCCC Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briangb View Post
Or simply keep each class completely seperate as they were always intended to be.
What we have now is not far from being an open class. Surely not what was ever intended.

I do agree Brian, truly do but until/if/when the rule changes, it will carry on. Looking like the Schumacher team drivers are using the K1 in 2wd now. Surely this means 2wd cars have not been designed right.

Even though I have an XB4 I needed to get one as my fellow club drivers were leaving me behind track wise....

See you Sunday for a chat!!!

Neil
__________________
Vega RB6 - Orion - Apex Models - JE Models - Cable ties
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 29-07-2013
Dudders's Avatar
Dudders Dudders is offline
SHRCCC Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,317
Default

Anyway, it's all Glenn Westwood's fault...
__________________
Vega RB6 - Orion - Apex Models - JE Models - Cable ties
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 29-07-2013
danDanEFC's Avatar
danDanEFC danDanEFC is offline
Mad Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Crosby, Merseyside
Posts: 1,022
Send a message via MSN to danDanEFC
Default

Was this a specific Stoffold thing, or something we will see more of at Nationals.

I didnt notice this at the Southport National so why the change??
__________________
Aidan Burke - Southport Radio Car Club
#SchumacherFamily #TQmodels #ExtraLapRCpodcast
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 29-07-2013
Briangb Briangb is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 220
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudders View Post
I do agree Brian, truly do but until/if/when the rule changes, it will carry on. Looking like the Schumacher team drivers are using the K1 in 2wd now. Surely this means 2wd cars have not been designed right.

Even though I have an XB4 I needed to get one as my fellow club drivers were leaving me behind track wise....

See you Sunday for a chat!!!

Neil
I admire your honesty Neil. While the rules allow it then the choice is there. Glen's fault?. He is faster than me with wheels bolted to the kit box.
See you Sunday.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 29-07-2013
trekkerkk trekkerkk is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 858
Default

Personally the poll dosent go far enough as long as there is no diff in the front and no drive belt or shaft going forwards from the spur gear it should be ok .otherwise manufacturers will bring purpose built kits out with 4wd geometry then it becomes more expensive for the racer
Trekkker
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 29-07-2013
Dudders's Avatar
Dudders Dudders is offline
SHRCCC Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Briangb View Post
I admire your honesty Neil. While the rules allow it then the choice is there. Glen's fault?. He is faster than me with wheels bolted to the kit box.
See you Sunday.
When other club guys got the XB4 my normal 'position' within was challenged, ie people below me caught and over took my times with easy, and ones I could race with, got a lap quicker. So needed to change as well.

Of course SHRCCC is high grip Astro, all clubs will differ.

Glenn started it all, burn the witch!
__________________
Vega RB6 - Orion - Apex Models - JE Models - Cable ties
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 29-07-2013
Ralls Racing Ralls Racing is offline
oOple Advertiser
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: birchington
Posts: 212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danDanEFC View Post
Was this a specific Stoffold thing, or something we will see more of at Nationals.

I didnt notice this at the Southport National so why the change??


nationals wise it started at broxtowe and 2-3 were in the A straight away think it was 5-5 at stotfold.

definitely something the brca needs to sort one way or the other as can carry a lot of extra pace over a conventional 2wd. if we are allowed then we will all start to do it on the higher grip tracks or ban it straight away (not sure how but do like the only 1 gearbox casing or even one mount (in dex410 case) for a gearbox allowed) of only cars designed as a 2wd can be used.

i do know this has put the brca in a none nice position as to how to rule this which i know i wouldnt want to have to rule on
__________________
www.rallsracing.com HPI, Answer Rc, Rc Disco, Pace Design
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 29-07-2013
DaveG28's Avatar
DaveG28 DaveG28 is offline
*SuPeRsTaR mEmBeR*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3,736
Default

Sorry all, can someone clarify what exactly this is about.

Is it that people are running front driveshafts and diff, and just no center shaft/belt, so they get a front diff action but no drive?

Or is a 4wd simply running without any front drivetrain actually quicker?

I am not sure i am against it anyway to be honest, nationals aren't full, rc costs a fortune, maybe having one car do both classes is no bad thing!?

Or is the worry that next some clever soul will produce a 2wd only car but with front diff etc?

If the rule needs changing, I'd keep it simple, front wheels must freely move independently of each other and the rear, both forwards and backwards.
__________________
Dave "Amish FJ" Gibson
RB Products ~ Yokomo
Nuclear RC ~ Xpert ~ Hacker
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 29-07-2013
Dudders's Avatar
Dudders Dudders is offline
SHRCCC Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,317
Default

4wd cars without front drive shafts, with or without centre train and/or diff.
__________________
Vega RB6 - Orion - Apex Models - JE Models - Cable ties
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 29-07-2013
mark christopher's Avatar
mark christopher mark christopher is offline
Spends too long on oOple ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: haxey, doncaster
Posts: 7,787
Send a message via MSN to mark christopher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG28 View Post
Sorry all, can someone clarify what exactly this is about.

Is it that people are running front driveshafts and diff, and just no center shaft/belt, so they get a front diff action but no drive?

Or is a 4wd simply running without any front drivetrain actually quicker?

I am not sure i am against it anyway to be honest, nationals aren't full, rc costs a fortune, maybe having one car do both classes is no bad thing!?

Or is the worry that next some clever soul will produce a 2wd only car but with front diff etc?

If the rule needs changing, I'd keep it simple, front wheels must freely move independently of each other and the rear, both forwards and backwards.
Seem to be removing the driveshafts at the front and leaving the rest..

Anyone say how there better? More weight? More weight over the front? Geometry?
__________________
MBModels - Schumacher Racing - Vapextech.co.uk - MRT - Savox - SMD
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29-07-2013
s22jgs's Avatar
s22jgs s22jgs is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 700
Default

personally i think its a massive loop hole and effectively a legal way of cheating.

That said, if others are doing it and it meant i wasn't competitive then i would do it myself too
__________________
Stephen Smith
Answer RC Team
HB Racing | Team Orion | Xpert | Racing Experience
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 29-07-2013
Kelk's Avatar
Kelk Kelk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 587
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
Seem to be removing the driveshafts at the front and leaving the rest..

Anyone say how there better? More weight? More weight over the front? Geometry?
I'd say it's actually more 50/50 for those leaving in/not leaving in the front diff
__________________
Every Thursday evening from 6:30pm and alternate Sundays.

Check out http://shrccc.co.uk
Follow us on:

Facebook - Surrey and Hants Radio Control Car Club
Twitter - @surreyhantsrc
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 29-07-2013
jlucas jlucas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 534
Default

Personally cant see the issue here I use an xb4 as a 2wd I use none of the front drive train components so its a 2wd only the rear wheels drive. Would this poll be on here if people were running front wheel drive? Get over it move with the times the brca has no grounds to ban it the rules are not being broken
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 29-07-2013
Richard Lowe Richard Lowe is offline
*SuPeRsTaR mEmBeR*
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG28 View Post
I am not sure i am against it anyway to be honest, nationals aren't full, rc costs a fortune, maybe having one car do both classes is no bad thing!?
The thing is it only really works on very high grip, any moisture on the track and they are useless. So now if you want all the options for the different conditions you need a 4wd, a traditional mid motor 4 gear AND and 2/4wd hybrid. So for most people that's going to cost even more, especially if you have another set of electrics in the hybrid so you can easily throw the mid-4 down if it rains before your heat.

People at the weekend were talking about the front diff acting 'like a gyro' or something similar, personally I can't see how that is the case with all the heavy bits of the diff being so close to it's centre. Maybe if the front diff was geared up to spin at crazy high RPM, IMO it's just the same as having a big chunk of dead weight on the front of the car.

I can't see any reason why it should be banned really, as technically you're not breaking any rules by doing it. It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the rules/sport to me.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 29-07-2013
Dudders's Avatar
Dudders Dudders is offline
SHRCCC Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,317
Default

Mr Lucas straight in with a moody one
__________________
Vega RB6 - Orion - Apex Models - JE Models - Cable ties
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 29-07-2013
jlucas jlucas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 534
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudders View Post
Mr Lucas straight in with a moody one
Well mr dudman I think you'll find all the people complaining are just annoyed that they have been beaten by something that shouldn't really work
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 29-07-2013
ianjoyner ianjoyner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 418
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark christopher View Post
Seem to be removing the driveshafts at the front and leaving the rest..

Anyone say how there better? More weight? More weight over the front? Geometry?
Probably less weight shift, mid 4 gear cars get a lot of torque reaction from the motor. Going to shaft drive puts that across the car which seems less noticeable (maybe the prop shaft helps cancel the reaction). I think the K1 runs the motor the opposite way to a 4 gear car, so against the direction of the wheels meaning less overall torque reaction.

I'm not sure trying to ban '4wd designed' cars from 2wd will work, surely if they work then dedicated 2wd versions will be on their way e.g. TM2.

Personally I don't really like the feel of the large torque reaction from mid 4 gear cars anyway and I think if anything the 'less weight shift' mid motor cars feel slightly closer to good old rear motor.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 29-07-2013
tony12795 tony12795 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 909
Default

Agreed.

It actually nearly rained just before the last leg of the A final at Stotfold - that would have been intresting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lowe View Post
The thing is it only really works on very high grip, any moisture on the track and they are useless. So now if you want all the options for the different conditions you need a 4wd, a traditional mid motor 4 gear AND and 2/4wd hybrid. So for most people that's going to cost even more, especially if you have another set of electrics in the hybrid so you can easily throw the mid-4 down if it rains before your heat.

People at the weekend were talking about the front diff acting 'like a gyro' or something similar, personally I can't see how that is the case with all the heavy bits of the diff being so close to it's centre. Maybe if the front diff was geared up to spin at crazy high RPM, IMO it's just the same as having a big chunk of dead weight on the front of the car.

I can't see any reason why it should be banned really, as technically you're not breaking any rules by doing it. It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the rules/sport to me.
__________________
http://insidelineracing.co.uk
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 29-07-2013
Steve.T's Avatar
Steve.T Steve.T is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 689
Default

Can't see Losi, Schumacher, Yokomo, X ray, Associated and the rest allowing this. Its a whole seperate market for them
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
oOple.com