Team Associated B4 Factory TEAM - built in China

[tommychev]

Originally Posted by Beanie

Public wants, what the public gets.....if they demand it ever cheaper then manufacturers will try to achieve that.....that means cheaper labour and production costs.

Comes down to retailers setting expectation too, bit of a tangent but stick with me.....if Tesco say you can buy a chicken for £2, then suddenly that is what we expect and so scorn the idea of paying a fiver for a chicken...it sets our expectation. If we were told the chicken was no less than a fiver then that would be our expectation also. You have to appreciate the choices you make as a consumer....if you buy cheap, you can't really moan that manufacturing in this country has gone for a burton....pay a little more and you support British jobs, and then we all benefit...less out of work, etc.....

If the production costs and labour costs are cheaper, then why are we still paying top dollar for the kits and other items? Yes, the public would like cheaper priced items, thats true, but if the manufacturers have gone to China and are building cheap junk, then why havent they dropped the prices? Corporate greed is at its best by the look of things. Really, instead of paying 280.00 US for a B4 kit, it should be more like half that price. Rip off merchants. Its disgusting. The consumer has not benefited at all. THe prices are still the same, and the quality is crap. You should see the new battery thumb screws how bad they are. I threw them in the bin they were so bad. When i received a b4 kit this week , two of the shock caps were cross threaded even before fitment!!! Looks like the only people who are benefiting from this are the corporate fat cats

[bodgit]

So apart from the flashing is there any way of knowing where the part you have bought comes from as all mine have Usa price labels on them even from gb shops

[sosidge]

Originally Posted by bodgit

So apart from the flashing is there any way of knowing where the part you have bought comes from as all mine have Usa price labels on them even from gb shops

They might have "Made in China" somewhere on the header card.

[ApexSpeed]

Originally Posted by tommychev

If the production costs and labour costs are cheaper, then why are we still paying top dollar for the kits and other items?

Top dollar, eh? Not really.

In 1988, a Team Associated RC10 with bearings from Tower Hobbies was $174.99. Today, a brand new B4.1 Brushed RTR buggy, including motor, servo, receiver, ESC and a transmitter is $194.97. By U.S. standard dollar inflation calculations, that basic RC10 buggy would cost $313.28 with today's money. Would you buy a basic RC10 for that today?

Every time I see someone complaining about the cost of cars, motors, radios and batteries I have to laugh. The R/C industry has experienced almost ZERO adjustment for inflation over the last 25 years, yet people continue to believe that they are being ripped off at every turn.

Just for the sake of argument, even though off topic slightly, here's some prices of standard race gear for 1988 (in US$)...

• Trinity Modified handwound motor... $54.95
• Schumacher XLS 4wd kit... $265.00
• Trinity Sanyo matched 7-cell SCE pack... $54.99
• Tekin BEC100 battery charger... $84.95
• Novak NESC1 ESC... $119.99
• Futaba 3PG radio... $164.99

Notice how little that the prices have changed for the items we all use over the last 22 years. This isn't because companies are afraid you won't buy things if they cost more, it's because manufacturing capabilities have increased drastically for a niche hobby, and cars like the B4 can be made much more efficiently than in 1988.

China manufacturing is part of reason for that, even if they also tend to be part of the quality problem, as well. I'm sure that will change as competition increases globally.

Personally, I'd like to still be able to buy a new BMW M3 for 1988 prices (about $34k USD).



doug

[Scouser]

Originally Posted by bodgit

So apart from the flashing is there any way of knowing where the part you have bought comes from as all mine have Usa price labels on them even from gb shops

The old AE parts came with a Stars and Stripes packet top with made in USA on it. The new parts come with a blue AE packet top with made in USA on the front and made in China on the back.

[bodgit]

Never noticed that before but having a good look through my spares seems to be a 50-50 mix of usa and china.

[MiCk B.]

I got some new B4 front arms this week. Compared to the arms on my car at the moment. The new arms appear to be much better moulded. No obvious flashing on the arms. They're still in the packet, so yet to have a real close look at them and to see if the mould quality is better then the older ones.

MiCk B. :-)

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

Top dollar, eh? Not really.

In 1988, a Team Associated RC10 with bearings from Tower Hobbies was $174.99. Today, a brand new B4.1 Brushed RTR buggy, including motor, servo, receiver, ESC and a transmitter is $194.97. By U.S. standard dollar inflation calculations, that basic RC10 buggy would cost $313.28 with today's money. Would you buy a basic RC10 for that today?

Every time I see someone complaining about the cost of cars, motors, radios and batteries I have to laugh. The R/C industry has experienced almost ZERO adjustment for inflation over the last 25 years, yet people continue to believe that they are being ripped off at every turn.

Just for the sake of argument, even though off topic slightly, here's some prices of standard race gear for 1988 (in US$)...

• Trinity Modified handwound motor... $54.95
• Schumacher XLS 4wd kit... $265.00
• Trinity Sanyo matched 7-cell SCE pack... $54.99
• Tekin BEC100 battery charger... $84.95
• Novak NESC1 ESC... $119.99
• Futaba 3PG radio... $164.99

Notice how little that the prices have changed for the items we all use over the last 22 years. This isn't because companies are afraid you won't buy things if they cost more, it's because manufacturing capabilities have increased drastically for a niche hobby, and cars like the B4 can be made much more efficiently than in 1988.

China manufacturing is part of reason for that, even if they also tend to be part of the quality problem, as well. I'm sure that will change as competition increases globally.

Personally, I'd like to still be able to buy a new BMW M3 for 1988 prices (about $34k USD).



doug

Personally i would buy the original rc10 for that money as it was a brick and very rarely broke and was a superb buggy. The b4 may be great but wreaks of cheapness and lacks quality. I got rid of my one as its not as robust as the previous models.

Now i just hope durango have got their copy right sorted for worldwide rights and sue the chinese for all they have as they are thieving sods and agree with rebelrc, keep it in house and dont send anything to them as youll never get them back.

[Bugle]

Yeah i've got a 1995 RC10B2 team version and on the box it says $340 USD, so 15 years of inflation later and a RC10B4 team is only $175, thats a bargain..

[TUCRACEMAN]

Very interesting....I guess I will have to buy Schumacher and Kyosho in order to get quality kits. Oh Darn.
~D

[nicefrog]

The main reason I bought Team C cars this time around is that Associated more or less doesn't exist now, it's just a name so if I'm having a Chinese cars mays as well go all the way. I used to be the biggest Associated fan and still have an original RC10 a team car and a full carbon B2 team car and that B2 is better quality than just about anything that exists these days, still fast too :S. I think that's the temptation with Schumacher cars which I believe are still made or mostly made in the UK that's something to be proud of and supported, I might buy the new Cougar for no other reason one of these days

[joelwhite]

Originally Posted by Bugle

Yeah i've got a 1995 RC10B2 team version and on the box it says $340 USD, so 15 years of inflation later and a RC10B4 team is only $175, thats a bargain..

The $340 was suggested retail the B4's suggested retail is $380. Still the stuff availble now is very cost effective. I remember in the late 80s early 90s having to spend $80 us each for some battery packs that lasted 4minutes and I need 6 of them for one day of racing one car, let alone all the motors in my case.
As far as ae quality, it has fallen off. Even after assembly. They tend to develop slop faster too.I excited to check out the Tamiya. B4 design and Japanese perts quality, Cant wait

[rocketrob]

Originally Posted by ApexSpeed

Top dollar, eh? Not really.

In 1988, a Team Associated RC10 with bearings from Tower Hobbies was $174.99. Today, a brand new B4.1 Brushed RTR buggy, including motor, servo, receiver, ESC and a transmitter is $194.97. By U.S. standard dollar inflation calculations, that basic RC10 buggy would cost $313.28 with today's money. Would you buy a basic RC10 for that today?

Every time I see someone complaining about the cost of cars, motors, radios and batteries I have to laugh. The R/C industry has experienced almost ZERO adjustment for inflation over the last 25 years, yet people continue to believe that they are being ripped off at every turn.

Just for the sake of argument, even though off topic slightly, here's some prices of standard race gear for 1988 (in US$)...

• Trinity Modified handwound motor... $54.95
• Schumacher XLS 4wd kit... $265.00
• Trinity Sanyo matched 7-cell SCE pack... $54.99
• Tekin BEC100 battery charger... $84.95
• Novak NESC1 ESC... $119.99
• Futaba 3PG radio... $164.99

Notice how little that the prices have changed for the items we all use over the last 22 years. This isn't because companies are afraid you won't buy things if they cost more, it's because manufacturing capabilities have increased drastically for a niche hobby, and cars like the B4 can be made much more efficiently than in 1988.

China manufacturing is part of reason for that, even if they also tend to be part of the quality problem, as well. I'm sure that will change as competition increases globally.

Personally, I'd like to still be able to buy a new BMW M3 for 1988 prices (about $34k USD).

doug

Well said!
I think all the newbs think RCs should be free or something.

[pmes]

I just decided to get back into R/C. . . got a B4. The LHS had no kits on hand so they ordered me one. Imagine my shock when I found the made in China label on the box! I had no idea. So the build was going okay, I think all kits have required a bit of flash trimming, but then I got to the idler gear. The mold went horribly wrong! One spot barely had any teeth and you could see how the plastic was "a bad mix". I suppose this has happened in the past, but I myself have never seen a mis-molded part like this before.

I know that engineers and racers the world over have contributed to the development of the B4, but I guess I just figured to keep it real they were still made in the USA. It's a lot simpler to keep tabs on production when you can simply walk down a flight of stairs.

For 1/12 it looks like I'll have to go with the BMI Copperhead. USA USA USA USA!

[Lonestar]

Anyone remembers all the burrs on the pinions of the good ol' RC10 6Gear tranny??? Or the mold lines and burrs on the original AE A-arms???

Every big manufacturer have their stuff made in Asia in 2010. Yes once in a while you get a missing tooth on an idler gear, but not any more often than 25yrs ago - It's inacceptable but it happens. However the internet gives us more opportunities to publicize it and swear at those dang asians willing to work 60hrs/wk for a hundredth of what we'd be asking (plus we'd ask for a "fulfilling" aspect in our jobs) ...Most kit perfectly go together, and in "real" money they cost like half of what they did 25yrs ago. Let's not even talk about electronics...

Oh yes, asian suppliers also make the computer whose screens you are reading this on... as well as that cell phone you chat with your buddy with... and your watch... and your TV... and your Wii/PS3/Xbox... and... and... and all these things are technological wonders, insanely more complex than our toy cars, and work amazingly well.

Now - the B3 was already manuf'ed in TT's asian plants, even before they bought AE over. But as long as Cliff and the boys handle the R&D, to me, they're still a US company, regardless of which country the capital is based in...

Paul

[racingdwarf]

Interesting this.

I did wonder some time ago why my 2005/2006 B4 was so good, told all new club members to get one, was a bit as there new cars seemed to break at even the site of a track marker. In the end I only put it down to the fact I don't crash much (honest) and when I do I know its all going wrong thus tend not to be at full throtel, but this thred explains some of the low speed silly breakages


I also must say that after 25ish years in the hobby I think MOST manufacturers have done a very good job of keeping the running costs down, Looking back at old RC mags the price of an RC10 then and now is fantastic. motors speedos the same, altho a brushless motor is a lot more, look at the maintanance and life expectancy? same with most lipos.

BUT

I'm not sure how a cougar can be close to the price of an SX
The X6's etc are just way too much with the doner Imo
And the 1/8th durango is going to be £480ish, so how come the 10th one costs so much.
And as for some radio transmitters

And tyre prices Hmmm

worst thing I ever bought was an AE tee shirt (blue) low quality high price sh*t didn't last long, and was only worn on race days

Dave