Lazer zxr

[rob m]

I just run mine with the kickup as per manual.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by type49rs

Anybody?

front upper hole front gearbox. for rear I prefer rear inner pivot block with bigger section higher and back pivot block reversed compared to manual so lower to give kick up there as well

[type49rs]

Awesome, thanks guys. The main reason I'm asking is because I have a lot of bump steer and running on the lower hole does improve it a little but I would like to go back to the upper hole for more castor angle.

Interestingly I tried the blue pureten steering setup but because it raises the centre link, it made the bump steer worse so I went back to the kit steering.

I have just swapped the front knuckles left to right to raise the height of the steering arm and the bump steer is nearly perfect. Will have a play with the upper link position next to get that last little bit but will wait till I get the teamline shock mount back from Fibrelyte.

I have set the rear kickup as you've said Welshy

[Welshy40]

Im puzzled, with the pure ten blue steering you should get zero bump steer so need to understand why, so post a picture of your knuckles with ball joint placement and the steering plate and steering plate holders as i believe you have something spaced wrongly. Once the bump steer has been totally removed the car does feel a bit better and more balanced.

Also are you using a wider front end or standard (inner or outer hole on castor block)

[type49rs]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Im puzzled, with the pure ten blue steering you should get zero bump steer so need to understand why, so post a picture of your knuckles with ball joint placement and the steering plate and steering plate holders as i believe you have something spaced wrongly. Once the bump steer has been totally removed the car does feel a bit better and more balanced.

Also are you using a wider front end or standard (inner or outer hole on castor block)

Yes, using the wide front end. Here's some pics of the car in it's current state....

[rob m]

Thats a lot of caster with you using the top hingepin holes and 7.5deg c hubs.
Try putting a m3 nylock nut or something of that thickness ( along with what you have now ) at both ends of the steering link , one on the steering plate to lower it and one on the trailing arm to raise it and see how that is.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by type49rs

Yes, using the wide front end. Here's some pics of the car in it's current state....

I see the problem. I had this issue in 89 and found by opting for associated ball joints resolved my issues. The old style touring car or worlds re release RC10 ball joints are what i still use as they just dont wear out or pop off unlike the new versions. However an easy tip is you try to get the steering tie rod at almost and say almost as it isnt exactly level with the uj so when you move the wishbone up the tie rod is getting more level when you depress the wishbone upwards. Trial and error.

Tomorrow i will add pics to here of mine so you can see. Ignore the chassis and spacing on the steering chassis poles as that done due to having a 3 piece chassis at the moment. Sorry just realised my longer ujs havent arrived yet so will delay pics as ive got RPM knuckles on so needs refining.

I would not recomend using spacers or washers on the knuckles but as your not using the blue pure ten you will find the only way to remove Bump steer is by spacing the underneath of the steering plate, whereas the pure ten i dont use any under the plate. Also on the standard knuckles i cut off the top lug that the screw starts to screw into as that made it into no bump steer. I swear there are pics on here of my car with a flat chassis that may show this.

[type49rs]

Originally Posted by rob m

Thats a lot of caster with you using the top hingepin holes and 7.5deg c hubs.
Try putting a m3 nylock nut or something of that thickness ( along with what you have now ) at both ends of the steering link , one on the steering plate to lower it and one on the trailing arm to raise it and see how that is.

I agree Rob, it does look to be a lot of castor. I've had a look at your build thread (nice car by the way) and yours doesn't seem to have as much castor. Are you able to post a pic from side on?

[type49rs]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

I see the problem. I had this issue in 89 and found by opting for associated ball joints resolved my issues. The old style touring car or worlds re release RC10 ball joints are what i still use as they just dont wear out or pop off unlike the new versions. However an easy tip is you try to get the steering tie rod at almost and say almost as it isnt exactly level with the uj so when you move the wishbone up the tie rod is getting more level when you depress the wishbone upwards. Trial and error.

Tomorrow i will add pics to here of mine so you can see. Ignore the chassis and spacing on the steering chassis poles as that done due to having a 3 piece chassis at the moment. Sorry just realised my longer ujs havent arrived yet so will delay pics as ive got RPM knuckles on so needs refining.

I would not recomend using spacers or washers on the knuckles but as your not using the blue pure ten you will find the only way to remove Bump steer is by spacing the underneath of the steering plate, whereas the pure ten i dont use any under the plate. Also on the standard knuckles i cut off the top lug that the screw starts to screw into as that made it into no bump steer. I swear there are pics on here of my car with a flat chassis that may show this.

Thanks Welshy......that's a good tip about keeping the uj and the tierod almost level. As the car sits now (with standard steering and knuckles swapped L to R) the uj's and tierods are pretty much spot on and nearly no bump steer.

It's strange because the trend seems to be to 'fit' the blue steering to elimate bump steer whereas I'm 'removing' the blue steering to eliminate bump steer.

Yes would love to see some pics of your setup. Compared to Rob's car mine appears to have more castor angle

[rob m]

Originally Posted by type49rs

Thanks Welshy......that's a good tip about keeping the uj and the tierod almost level. As the car sits now (with standard steering and knuckles swapped L to R) the uj's and tierods are pretty much spot on and nearly no bump steer.

It's strange because the trend seems to be to 'fit' the blue steering to elimate bump steer whereas I'm 'removing' the blue steering to eliminate bump steer.

Yes would love to see some pics of your setup. Compared to Rob's car mine appears to have more castor angle

The blue steering won't eliminate bump steer as every time you change caster angle or camber it will afect the bump steer because you are changing arc pivot points and angles as the suspension compresses. The reason for adding bump steer spacers is to bring the steering back into the right point to suit the changed settings.
I have my front pivot block on the lower gearbox holes. With you using the upper holes to give more caster you have made a bigger height gap between the steering plate and trailing arms. Using the blue steering assembly will make the gap even bigger as it raises the steering plate even more and you don't want that. You have discoverd that using the black steering assembly it improves the bump steer as it lowers the inner steering ballstud, then you have turned the steering knuckles upside down and by doing that you have raised the outer steering link ballstud and you said that has improved the bump steer. Thats why i recommended putting the nylock nuts under the inner and outer ballstuds, make sure you have enough thread to screw into knuckle and steering plate though.

[rob m]

Originally Posted by type49rs

I agree Rob, it does look to be a lot of castor. I've had a look at your build thread (nice car by the way) and yours doesn't seem to have as much castor. Are you able to post a pic from side on?

Thankyou, yes i will post a side on picture for you tonight.

[Welshy40]

I only use 7.5 castor but base my camber at either 1 or 2 degrees but have zero bump steer, so even tho Rob is correct and I do seem to defy logik sometimes it is achievable. I know originally when I sat down in 89 it took me a lot of time to work it out, yet when the blue pure ten item came out it made life easier due to being slightly higher and meant no spacers between that and the plate.

Also you can space the plastic steering sections on the posts, but by doing that you will need other suitable washers to make it all flush with the top deck.

Will find some pics and post. I also mived the knuckle top king pin to the inner edge of my teamline hubs, by drilling a screw hole and this also made a big difference

[Welshy40]

Pics of my old car that I sold in 2002 (I think) and luckily bought it back a couple of years ago and was used as a shelfer. This handles superbly.

[rob m]

Originally Posted by type49rs

I agree Rob, it does look to be a lot of castor. I've had a look at your build thread (nice car by the way) and yours doesn't seem to have as much castor. Are you able to post a pic from side on?

Here are the pics of my car you asked for.

[Welshy40]

Rob?

Is the ball joint on the castor block raised as the tie rod does hit the edge of the block when fully in the up position and does cause issues when driving it hard?

[rob m]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Rob?

Is the ball joint on the castor block raised as the tie rod does hit the edge of the block when fully in the up position and does cause issues when driving it hard?

I know what you are saying, but with -2 camber and in the inner upper hole on the tower it just touches at full stroke, but not enough to put any strain on it. Its been a thought of mine to put some type of bump stop on the shock shaft if i was to use a different lnk posistion.

What type of surface do you run your lazer on, and is it high grip?

[Welshy40]

Yes on carpet, but had this issue on grass, hence why i drilled at the inner edges on the teamline castor block. This made a big difference.

[isobarik]

Originally Posted by type49rs

Yes, using the wide front end. Here's some pics of the car in it's current state....

use the lower set of holes on the front gearbox....

mvh isobarik

[type49rs]

Originally Posted by rob m

I just run mine with the kickup as per manual.

Thanks for the additional pics Rob. Strange....I also set my kickup as per the manual but my manual shows to use the top hole hence the reason why I have so much castor with the teamline c-hubs. I will go back to the lower hole and everything will be sweet.....might even try the blue steering again Thanks again for your help.....looking forward to seeing your tub chassied car finished

[type49rs]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

I only use 7.5 castor but base my camber at either 1 or 2 degrees but have zero bump steer, so even tho Rob is correct and I do seem to defy logik sometimes it is achievable. I know originally when I sat down in 89 it took me a lot of time to work it out, yet when the blue pure ten item came out it made life easier due to being slightly higher and meant no spacers between that and the plate.

Also you can space the plastic steering sections on the posts, but by doing that you will need other suitable washers to make it all flush with the top deck.

Will find some pics and post. I also mived the knuckle top king pin to the inner edge of my teamline hubs, by drilling a screw hole and this also made a big difference

Very nice car Welshy.... thanks for the pics. Think I got it sorted now.....see my previous post. I have considered changing the ball ends and links for associated or similiar but for now I'm going for the period look..... but I'll probably change my mind next week