should the brca abandon the electric board homologation list?

[dazp83]

Yeah well said and its been said before other classes do just fine without a battery list or motors or esc.

[DCM]

I am getting confused as to whether people think the EB list is wrong (for what it is designed for, national and regional racing) or whether they think that the Off-Road section impose the list on anyone and everyone racing buggies?

[HOTSHOT III]

Originally Posted by Origineelreclamebord

+1: Sizes of components should be standardized (2S, certain sizes, 540 motor, etc) and the electronics should be suitable for the racing environment (things like a hard case and protection around as many as possible rotating and hot parts) - leave the rest to the companies and consumers to sort out.

Also, instead of a homologation list, you could apply a rule that if scrutineers don't trust the safety of your electronics, they are not approved to ensure everyone's safety. Sure this requires some guidelines so you can confidently travel to an event with only the set of electronics that's in your car, but consider this: Homologated electronics don't guarantee safety if they're not used well, and have some faith in it that the manufacturer doesn't want a reputation of injuring a high percentage of its users... so why use a homologation as your benchmark for safety? Fellow hobbyists working as scrutineers will be more than able to judge whether or not they would feel comfortable with a certain car near them in the pit area or when marshalling

As you might have noticed, I don't live in the UK... Where I live, the most used electronics are HobbyKing/Turnigy products. I don't consider scrutineers to be very critical about things, yet in my 3 years of racing I have seen only one LiPo fire because someone accidentally charged his battery pack at 3S - homologation wouldn't have prevented that, instead he would've just burnt away a more expensive battery Anyway, he noticed the case cracked during charging and he had time to carry it away from the pit area, where it had all the space to sizzle and smoke as hard as it could. Also I've seen 2 or 3 ESCs go up in smoke, but I've never witnessed a car burn down, a motor disintegrate or someone get injured from bad electronics.

So sure these electronics pack a punch, but in my eyes homologation will not prevent the few accidents that do happen. Just think about everyone's safety when working on your own electronics, watch each others' electronics and make sure there's a bucket of sand in the area to smother a LiPo fire!

Without a shadow of doubt the most sensible post on this thread

[dazp83]

Originally Posted by HOTSHOT III

Without a shadow of doubt the most sensible post on this thread

I agree, more reasons to be jealous of the Dutch

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by BazzerH

Just to gauge public opinion, a poll!

So here lies a perfect example of how a poll online voting can fuck some thing up.

You want to get rid of the brca homlogation list?
Batteries, motors and Speedo lists? Because that's what the poll is asking and its not specific

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by cutting42

Yes so DCM said, I would want to keep that section whilst getting rid of the list.



I am a bit confused what you are getting at here. I only know the off road world so maybe I am missing your point. I don't care what anyone buys really. I use a mix of old and new gear. I am just as fast with any of it, yeah the older batteries can't do two competitive heats in one charge any more but they are fine for one or as a practice pack.

I guess my main issue is there seems little real reason behind having the list. Many other sections don't have it. It does not control costs it just gives a little traceability and it adds a whole lot of admin and confusion.

End of the day, I don't care that much, I will buy decent stuff anyway and it is not a big issue to make sure its on the list but it does seem bureaucratic so I voted Yes!

So how many use the eb lists and how many do not?

[dazp83]

So in the Netherlands they have no restrictions and are things "a mess" up there?

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by cutting42

Hands up guv, I am fairly new to this and come from just the off road world and understand your point.

All my points were from the off road perspective maybe the poll should be rerun as:

"Do off road racers want exemption from the EB Homologation list" which as you say is a different question.

Exectly why on line voting does not work, word it wrong or don't know the facts, and screw something up....

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by dazp83

So in the Netherlands they have no restrictions and are things "a mess" up there?

Did they do it that way with online voting?

[Neil Skull]

OH Dear,
Homologation is not to stop Lipo Fires.

It's a set of rules to make sure all equipment is to a set design size and standard.
It limits the cost to you the driver, the added benifit is you have full Insurance cover by complying with BRCA rules.

Its pretty obvious the guys who don't understand this have not been racing for many years. It used to be a lot more expensive!! the EB board actually help minimise cost!!!

I use 2 lipo packs in all the classes i race, they are on the list and have not been replaced for 2 years. they work well still.

Any one who is arguing the cost is too high at less than £100 for 1 year plus of fair homologated racing does not get racing!!!!

The only reason not to get a Lipo on the list is if it does not comply with the spec. So ask yourself again why are the cheap Lipo not on the list? Because they do not comply with the industry standard that the major manufacturers adhere too! and that can be very expensive! for example, We submitted Team Orion 1s lipo for Homologation that failed due to being slightly oversize! It should not have been a big problem you may think? Well we just got thousands of lipos made that are now not approved!!!. To compensate we gave every customer who purchased one a free Homologated Lipo. I don't want to mention the cost but that's what we did to be fair!!!

If the EB board did not exist our lipo would have been used, next month another manufacturer would bring out one 1mm bigger to squeeze more MH
and so and so on till the lipo became oversize and starts not to fit the cars they was designed for.
Then what do the Car manufacturers do? they start to make different cars to fit bigger or different shaped Lipos. and so on and so on. This means to be competitive you have to keep buying new Lipos and cars just because there is no control!!!
And if anyone thinks this is stupid then think again as this is actually what happend for many years! Nimh became very dangerous and cost to keep updating your cells with latest just to keep up with the quick guy at the club was £500 to £2000 per year! It did happen and we remember it! It is our JOB to let The uneducated know that and accept it!!!!
So we better apologise as we failed!

And that's my first Post not making fun of the guys who do not know! for that i apologise.

[dazp83]

So is that what's happening in 1/8 ebuggy with no rules? Or in the Netherlands?

[Neil Skull]

1/8th E Buggy is still developing. I believe next year will be the First Euro event.
There are problems in 8th with reliability of Electronics and Lipos. The cost is not as big an issue as 10th as the guys that race accept high cost so far. Until the class grows big enough and evolves i guess you wont see any strict rules. If the racers get tired with some continuing development and cost they may vote for some control on that next AGM, But maybe next year if the Euros are popular and some special guy wins with some special electrics it will be done anyway.
Dont forget EB board was created at request of racers to control the cost and to standardise the class.
In Holland the RC Scene is not so big and controlled. The people are more relaxed about such things and vaguely follow EFRA regs.

[Jim Spencer]

Holland has the same sort of organisation as the UK.

It's called NOMAC, (Google 'Nomac RC' and it'll pop up) click on the 'Clubs' tag to give you a rough idea of the racing scene.

They generally follow a combination of their own and EFRA rules.

In short what you have in the UK is pretty much the same as you have anywhere else in the world - it's essentially an amateur run sport, generally enthusiasts who give up their time to get involved.

[Jim Spencer]

This thread is largely (with some very good exceptions) embarrassing to our sport

The dramatic lack of knowledge about how are sport works is quite simply sad - why don't some of you ask before typing on a thread that's been read by thousands of people?

it's not hard to get your head around, nor is it hard to figure out how to change it - The instructions on how to do it are written in the handbook!

The entire association officials list is in your Handbook, you can easily find out what people do for a living.. I work for MAN Trucks, the Chairman is retired, the Secretary works with pressure washers, the EB chairman works in an engineering business, the 1/12 chairman works for Lotus etc, etc

Ordinary racers, doing ordinary jobs who'll go and find out how the world actually works, so we can all race in as fair and as reasonably safe as possible environment.

If the passion illustrated on here was turned into actually getting something done then you might, just might, turn round the situation where healthy clubs are disappearing because people won't run them, good people are leaving the sport because of the flak they get on forums like this.

There's a lot of people on here who need to have a good hard THINK - make 100% certain you understand why before savaging your keyboard.
Then, make 100% certain you're actually prepared to DO what you say you want done.
Then Do It.

These last little bits currently separate most of you from the Club and the Association officials - some of your think are corrupt (!), stupid and just out to make life complicated...
But
That's why I'm sitting here typing as the Association Treasurer (though my predecessor wasn't crap - I just wanted it done a different way) so I got up and said so - just as you're doing. - and then did it.

Our sport relies on people doing just that - get off your backside and find out how things are done, then offer to do it better/right.
Then try and spread that knowledge to others by answering their questions as best you can - and never, ever stop learning while you do it.

And when you don't know STFU until you've found out, as it'll stop you making a complete idiot of yourself..

[Jim Spencer]

Right

Back to Basics

The OP's first Post.

You Can't - so the Poll is pointless.

The EB wasn't created for 1/10 Off Road.

It's was created, by and for, all the Electric Sections - even those that currently don't use the EB lists (in all their forms - some use All, some use part, some none) were involved.

So the lists will stop when all the sections stop using them - it would take a vote in each class to pass.

So

The poll should be:-

Should the BRCA 1/10 Off Road section stop using the EB Battery List for Nationals & Regionals.

The lists don't apply to club racing - or bashing - so you can all forget those bits.

So Somebody start a poll with the right question!

[dazp83]

This was a proposal for regionals to use non sanctioned batteries wasnt it? The reaction by some seems as if it's to sacrifice a virgin before each heat. No manufacturer is going to build a car or battery for regionals.

[AC199]

Jim,

There are a lot of people who appreciate your work, myself included, hell I even appreciate the work done by Mark Christopher is getting his part of the sport recognised and organised.

There will always be people who are negative about online stuff, mostly because they are less than clueless about how things can be made to work given the correct oversight. I guess thats why the internet is the single greatest advancement in technology ever, and why a very large amount of its traffic is used for illicit purposes. People like their anonymity and very few have the balls to say to your face what they will bang on about for days online.

I've been reading a thread on facebook with interest where the main gobshites from this and the other thread have been bitching and moaning. The only person to have any kind of intelligible input has been Cockers. While I disagree with his viewpoint, I understand it.

To once again quote MIB - "A person can be smart, but people are dumb panicky animals and you know it"

With proper oversight things can be made to work flawlessly. Imagine the state of this forum without the oversight of the mods?

Keep doing what you're doing Jim, clearly you're doing it well.

AC

[Jim Spencer]

Hi Ac

And to add to all this there's a thread a few down where a blokes offering to build a new track in the West Mids / welsh border area, looking for some help and it's had no replies what-so-ever..

Folk would rather argue about things then offer to help grow their sport..

[Mowen208fly]

Originally Posted by Jim Spencer

Hi Ac

And to add to all this there's a thread a few down where a blokes offering to build a new track in the West Mids / welsh border area, looking for some help and it's had no replies what-so-ever..

Folk would rather argue about things then offer to help grow their sport..

Well said Jim

[cutting42]

Originally Posted by Jim Spencer

This thread is largely (with some very good exceptions) embarrassing to our sport


Snip snip

Not sure I agree with your first comment Jim.

Forums exchange views and knowledge, that is what was happening. That's certainly how I use it. This thread was a poll and generated plenty of both

Written rules in a manual do not help with an understanding of how we got there and why they exist. I have been racing only for 2 years and was not involved back in the days some of you are referring to.

The knowledge gained here helps guide and form new views and opinions, done publicly it helps more people than just me.