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#81
07-02-2020
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It's interesting to hear peoples responses, you would NOT have to run in a stock class - it would just be an option available alongside mod. There is just the hope that in a stock class there would be closer racing and reduced tyre wear - it's the most popular class in the states after all.
I gave up buggy racing quite a few years ago, the tyre management got too much. Not just the expense, but the faff of preparing so many sets, I would rather be refining the car, not gluing up tyres. You may as well say your hobby is gluing up tyres and dipping them in acetone rather than racing  Since giving up buggy racing I have raced onroad classes such as GT12/LMP/Frontie, all spec classes with limited 13.5t or 17.5t motors and the tyres last incredibly well. They have all had the closest racing I have had in years! With buggies you seem to spend most of your time just waiting for the car ahead to make a mistake rather than actually racing?! Perhaps a stock class would encourage a little more wheel to wheel action.
__________________
Schumacher • Phat Bodies Mendip R/C Raceway - Offroad Racing in South-West WORM-Racing - GT12 Racing in the South-West 
Last edited by Danosborne6661; 07-02-2020 at 11:01 PM. 
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#82
08-02-2020
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This may of already been said but what about a tyre rule of 2 or 3 sets per meeting. After all the buggies are scrutenered to ensure a level playing field. What's the point of that if another racer can have a advantage of new tyres each run and another can't. I know a sponsored driver has to perform and has to get the best results possible and to do that he or she runs new tyres each run to get the best result but if say another decent driver hasn't got the ability to run the new tyres each run then they are at a disadvantage from the off. No matter how good they drive they won't be on a level playing field.
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#83
08-02-2020
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There's a solution to all this... Stop seeing racing as an 'arms race' and don't take the results too seriously... the only thing you should really take seriously is to try and have fun
 I'll explain my perspective on this... I started racing in 2012. As I became more experienced in racing and I developed my buggy further, results improved and where initially I rejoiced my new personal best results, being in the top 3 at club races and A-finals in Nationals became the norm and a personal expectation a couple of years ago. The consequences of that are awful, as not meeting an expectations results in disappointment. When you don't achieve the results you expect, it becomes very easy to talk yourself into the idea that you need to prepare more and better to practice your hobby and have fun, and that better equipment and tires will help you achieve those goals. However better preparation or gear does not guarantee fun, in fact it makes for only bigger disappointment when things don't work out as you expected. At some point a few years ago, further preparation did not improve my results and I was not having the fun I wanted. I had a good think and I decided to not do any preparations for the next race and not drive in in my usual class (2WD modified) either. Instead, I got my box stock Tamiya DT03 off the shelf, charged the battery and nothing else. I had a blast that day, it was the nicest day racing I had in over a year! Since then, I've gone back mostly to club racing, I prepare a lot less and the hobby has been all the more fun for it. So if you ask me, the best thing you can do is to ignore the level of preparation you see around you, don't let yourself get involved in an arms race of more tires, the newest cars and go to the track without expectations with regard to results  Worn tires, a slower motor and last year's car will not stop you from having fun if you won't let it.
Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 08-02-2020 at 11:14 AM.
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#84
08-02-2020
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That is a very good way to view the situation. Sadly alot and me included in this do want to at least stand a chance of winning. After all we are all big kids at this really. That aside in terms of a competititive point of view the question remains......should there be a tyre rule. ?
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#85
08-02-2020
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Change to slicks without tyre additives for a control tire... Consistent for a long time and carpet grips plenty anyway
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#87
08-02-2020
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Well, it's certainly possible to get nice grip running slicks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0w5DgMQDv4 I'm not very experienced with slicks, but I know sanding the tires will help. Very shallow tread like those of JConcepts Octagons or ProLine Primes could also work, albeit it might suffer from tread wear. Then there are traction compounds. It helps for grip, however it has many adverse effects too: - Using multiple compounds on one track can seriously compromise grip levels; - Traction compounds are plasticizers, some of which are very nasty chemicals. To avoid health risks, the majority of them should not be handled without gloves and only in a well ventilated area. Additives end up in the carpet, making it very hard to gauge what level of protection you would need during wrenching on your car or marshalling, just to name two examples. - Tires without compounds/additives applied collect deposits from the track, hampering grip for anyone not willing to use the compounds due to health concerns. A sanctioned studded tire like Schumacher blocks could perhaps provide a nice alternative. The chunky tread and its lack of sharp features helps to keep consistent performance for a long time. Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 08-02-2020 at 06:34 PM.
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#88
08-02-2020
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We tried with and without additive and it was just totally undriveable. We were using venoms but people didn't like how they expanded so we are looking at alternatives. The cactus upset the touring car drivers and wear quite fast so we said we will try and find a tyre to keep all happy if possible.
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#89
08-02-2020
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Worth trying the Schumacher Honeycombs? Few clubs to me are running these on carpet on club nights with touring cars and working well so far
__________________
Kevin Bishop K.B. Design https://m.facebook.com/KBGraphixandD...?ref=bookmarks Cat 2000ec, Club 10 Cougar, SST Rally and touring. All about the Vintage Racing.
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#90
08-02-2020
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Quote:
Ballooning is very much compound and carcass (thickness) related. It's probably worth looking up a few alternatives. Also, ballooning is further reduced by using moulded / closed-cell inserts. I kind of forgot about the Schumacher Honeycombs, they could be really nice. They are probably longer lasting than any spike/pin tire, they will provide more grip on hard flooring like a worn tire or a slick, but at the same time should not be as sensitive to dust and loose deposits on the track as slicks
Last edited by Origineelreclamebord; 08-02-2020 at 09:55 PM.
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#93
09-02-2020
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Quote:
__________________
 PHULL PHAT - Phat Bodies
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#94
11-02-2020
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Quote:
Worked fine in Touring Cars though 😉 And if they can do it why can't the hardcore buggy racers.
__________________
 Nick Priest http://www.midlandsraceway.co.uk/ http://model-car-racer.co.uk For the best PERMANENT Indoor Off Road circuit in the West Midlands.
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#95
12-02-2020
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You don't want buggy to go to stock motors. This will increase costs, not reduce them. And it also increases the need for scrutineering.
For the stock class at TC nationals we check voltage before races, because more voltage = more power. This is a massive pain, and even worse on a buggy when you can't get to the battery terminals with the shell on. After the meeting we confiscate motors from the top runners so they can be properly scrutineered. Last year several people were disqualified, not through their own fault, but due to motor manufacturers pushing the limits and ending up over them. One driver lost a championship as a result of losing a round score. Stock drivers have big resistor banks used to discharge their lipos at 40 amps or more before charging them. This heats the lipos up, lowering the IR, giving more punch. This obviously isn't good for the lipos, so the top drivers replace them regularly. The top stock driver at our club tried at least 6 different motors last year trying to find the fastest one. Buggy just need to limit tyres to 2 sets per meeting same as we do with TC. It's easy to mark and police. Nobody tries to cheat. If you make a token effort to mark and check, everyone will play ball, and everyone saves money. Buggy racing is really low effort compared to TC; the only bit that's worse are the unlimited tyres.
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#97
12-02-2020
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Surely to apply a tyre limit to outdoors is not impossible? In kart racing you have 1 set of dry tyres which are marked at the start of the day and you can use them if the meeting is declared dry or open, you also have unlimited (safety) sets of wet tyres which you can use if meeting is declared open or wet but you can’t use them if meeting is declared as dry. The status of a meeting can be changed via an announcement for example if a shower passes over on an otherwise sunny day. Why couldn’t you limit drivers to 1/2 sets of tyres for dry and same for wet and limit usage by same way as karts?
It feels like this thread is similar to the budget restrictions argument that is happening in formula 1. Should spend be restricted and if so then how with the different views from teams with different size budgets.
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#99
12-02-2020
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To clarify; TC is two sets of slicks and two sets of wets, so a change in weather conditions is covered. It's very rare to use all 4 sets. Normally wets sit in the pit box, doing a run here and there when there's a shower. Or the odd meeting when it rains all day. It's common to see wets with 4 or 5 different scrutineering marks as they last way longer than slicks, which I guess is similar off-road. I remember BB greens lasting for ages.
Only one compound of slick and one compound of wet. There's no need for multiple manufacturers and compounds, that just increases cost as you have to turn up with all the options, and test all the options. So on the majority of meetings you just use 2 new sets of dry tyres, but have the wets ready if needed. If tyres were unlimited, it would be 6 new sets of dry tyres. If multiple manufacturers were allowed, then you'd have 18 sets of new tyres in the box for one meeting... Last edited by dale; 12-02-2020 at 03:04 PM.
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#100
12-02-2020
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A 17.5t class could help
- Closer racing - Less tyre wear due to slower motors - Potential to have a nominated tyre like a Schumacher Spike that lasts longer - Most offroad tracks are less powder dependant due to the bumpy tracks People wouldn't be forced to run this class, there would still be the open 'mod' class - this would just be an option. We're not talking at national level either, where 'everyone would buy the fastest available motor'... we're talking club level. It would be more about tuning your car, getting the most out of it and driving to carry corner speed. Rather than how it is at the moment with absolutely nailing it between turns. As someone pointed out above, this is the class of choice over in America after all!
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