LiPo Ruling (split from the COBRA Regional thread)

[c0sie]

Its all well and good moaning about these rules, but unless you are the one(s) in the positions of power and authority you would have no idea on both the "comeback" to the BRCA if the BRCA were to be aware of a "potential" issue and not act, and the feedback, views and information passed over to the EB from the manufacturers of these items.

Without all the "they are volentueers" stuff, the BRCA do a damn good job of running this show, and the EB do an equally good job of advising the BRCA on all electrical matters.

Ive never been in a car crash in my life, but I wear a seat belt everytime I travel etc etc.

The fact that the BRCA are responsible enough to act (unlike your local firework selling corner shop) should be commended, not dismissed as "over the top".

HNY.

[ant west 71]

yeah but accidents happen, there is no way danger can be stopped, take one danger out of the equation and something else will pop up, the more rules and regulations that go into sport and hobbys the more likely it will put people off trying it, which will result in a drop of members and evenaully kill it off. basically if people had all these extra rules we all might as well stay in bed where theres safe. why take the danger out of sports and hobbys, thats wot keep people doing it.

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so why did no one take precations when nimh were exploding and damaging eyes?

lipos fail when the user cocks up..........ie wrong charge profile

Actually i had to use these cases when using NIMH as the majority of clubs and events stated that it was a must. If you dont want to use fair enough, the rule is there for your safety and shows that people who dont like it are not mature enough to understand that even the most competant people have cells explode in their face. Also if it goes into someone elses a court case is going to happen and will cost a lot.

[DCM]

When NiMH's were popping, and if we all remember, they would often pop for no reason, the BRCA brought in a recomendation of a charge limit of 1C.

In the end, the end user has to take responsibility, as much as possible, to ensure theirs and the surrounding people safety whilst charging their own batteries. I am happy with LiPo sacks, but if that is the case, I would like to see a construction rule or even a test that they have to comply with, so that we know that if the cell does go, the flames won't escape the sack. But I also think that we, are racers, should be looking at what people are doing, and maybe 'advising' someone charging incorrectly.

[c0sie]

I dont race RC cos its dangerous lol!

Bungee jumping is dangerous, and thats why ill never do it. I "do" RC cos its f'king ace fun!

[DCM]

Originally Posted by c0sie

I dont race RC cos its dangerous lol!

Bungee jumping is dangerous, and thats why ill never do it. I "do" RC cos its f'king ace fun!

They don't have strong enough Bungee chords for me, and I don't have pants that would contain the resultant 'scare' from jumping off a perfectly good bridge!!

[ant west 71]

i agree that there must be some level of safety, but how far do u take it. will i have to buy a helmet and some body armour with steel toe capped boots for when im marshaling some time down the line as there are more injurys marshelling than popping lipos. think i might put some sponge on the corners of my pit table just in case somebody trips over one of many extension leads that lies across the floor in pit areas. now thats just a excuse on how far safety could stretch. as the saying states (shit happens).

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by ant west 71

i agree that there must be some level of safety, but how far do u take it. will i have to buy a helmet and some body armour with steel toe capped boots for when im marshaling some time down the line as there are more injurys marshelling than popping lipos. think i might put some sponge on the corners of my pit table just in case somebody trips over one of many extension leads that lies across the floor in pit areas. now thats just a excuse on how far safety could stretch. as the saying states (shit happens).

ah but dont you know, your brca insurance does not cover you while your marshalling (unless your in your "safe" marshalling post", you do that at your own risk.............soon as you leave your marshall post your on your own.

[peetbee]

Originally Posted by ant west 71

steel toe capped boots for when im marshaling

erm, that's what I already wear for marshalling

[dorris]

In the end, the end user has to take responsibility, as much as possible, to ensure theirs and the surrounding people safety whilst charging their own batteries. I am happy with LiPo sacks, but if that is the case, I would like to see a construction rule or even a test that they have to comply with, so that we know that if the cell does go, the flames won't escape the sack.

It is not just a question of personal safety from injury but also damage to 3rd party property.... like the venue!!!

In the case where an accident occurs where all reasonable precautions have been taken and all safety regulations have been observed then insurance companies will handle the financial fallout... however, if that is not the case then the relevant cover will be void and the financial burden will fall on the individual and/or the club as there would then be a case of negligence to answer. Club officials need to be aware that they have a responsibility to ensure that all H&S regulations are adhered to and a failure to do that will see them carry part of the blame in the event of an accident.

The fact of the matter is that the BRCA executive have identified a risk relating to LiPo cells and have introduced a ruling (which I would agree is not as clear and concise as would be ideal) which should reduce that risk to an acceptable level....

But I also think that we, are racers, should be looking at what people are doing, and maybe 'advising' someone charging incorrectly.

Absolutely.... clear education on the correct use of equipment would definitely reduce the number of incidents as well.

There will always be accidents with LiPos for one reason or another but with proper education together with flame proof pouches they should become very rare indeed.

What should be of concern to all is the number of people trying to argue their way out of compliance.

[DCM]

In my experience thought, it is the 'experienced' racer more than likely to have an accident than the learner.

Also, since LiPo come in, I have only ever seen one fail, and no LiPo sack would of done any good, as it was in a car. I just think the can of worms has been opened, and now someone got to put a lid on it.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by dorris

It is not just a question of personal safety from injury but also damage to 3rd party property.... like the venue!!!

In the case where an accident occurs where all reasonable precautions have been taken and all safety regulations have been observed then insurance companies will handle the financial fallout... however, if that is not the case then the relevant cover will be void and the financial burden will fall on the individual and/or the club as there would then be a case of negligence to answer. Club officials need to be aware that they have a responsibility to ensure that all H&S regulations are adhered to and a failure to do that will see them carry part of the blame in the event of an accident.

The fact of the matter is that the BRCA executive have identified a risk relating to LiPo cells and have introduced a ruling (which I would agree is not as clear and concise as would be ideal) which should reduce that risk to an acceptable level....

Absolutely.... clear education on the correct use of equipment would definitely reduce the number of incidents as well.

There will always be accidents with LiPos for one reason or another but with proper education together with flame proof pouches they should become very rare indeed.

What should be of concern to all is the number of people trying to argue their way out of compliance.

yup and when the fire investigaters turn round and say who told you to use a bag and wheres its fire saftey certificate, what u going to say " i was told it was a lipo bag?" can of worms as dcm says!

[c0sie]

Come on ladies, this aint doing anyone any good.

Lets just leave the rumours and speculation be and wait until we hear something more official in the future, if at all.

[DCM]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

yup and when the fire investigaters turn round and say who told you to use a bag and wheres its fire saftey certificate, what u going to say " i was told it was a lipo bag?" can of worms as dcm says!

This is my concern really, I don't have an issue with safety or what not, but a manufacturer states that your 'battery must be charged within a lipo sack', what constitutes a lipo sack, if it is sold by a shop as a 'lipo sack' but doesn't actually do what it should, which is to contain the fire........ you only got to go on Youtube to see lipo sacks being tested, yes, there are some very very good ones, but there are some which are useless.

All that is required is confirmation to be fair, and if we are made to use them, to know that what we are going to be using is actually 'fit for purpose', I don't think that is much to ask, is it?

[scotoap]

Surely the insurance side of our BRCA membership, says something along the lines of, that reasonable precautions should be taken when running any vehicle whether indoors or outdoors for safety sake to give you third party cover at least.

I would therefore expect everyone to use the bags, thats just my humble opinion though

[DCM]

Thing is, when I had to deal with H&S, if you had an item that was relevant, it had to of passed a test to prove it's suitability, that it could do what you expected it to do without fail.