Mid South 4wd Regional 12/6/11 Silverstone RCMCC - Page 2

chuckie stella · #21 12-06-2011

Hi chaps, thank you all for coming today and leaving kind messages even though I'm sure you're all disappointed with the meeting being cut short.

Just incase there are any people who may want to view their opinions about why they were unhappy with the decision today, i just wanted everyone to know why the decision was made. I'm not saying that everyone should like it, but unfortunately it's not down to everyone otherwise we would've took a vote which I believe would have caused all sorts of problems/disagreements. However, I like the fact that people don't always agree and am more than happy when people voice their opinion. The reasons were:

Safety (marshalling in particular)
Cost to competitors (6 speedos blew in round 3)
Track was only going to get worse (fact)

Not many tracks I know of would've coped with constant, relentless rain over such a long period.

Thank you all again for coming, it makes all the hours and hours of hard work making the track fit for racing worthwhile.

Cheers, Matt
SRCMCC

mikeyscott · #22 12-06-2011

Fair point re blown kit. One of our crew's Sanwa radio stopped working.

Gonky · #23 13-06-2011

Despite the weather i had some good fun yesterday... was a shame the meeting had to be called off but i understand the reasons for it!

Maybe those people suffering from wet electronics should have invested in some lazy goo!

Swiss · #24 13-06-2011

doesn't anyone know the finishing top ten?

simoncrabb · #25 13-06-2011

I was loving yesterday, the track was very nice, flowed well, clean and challenging.

No reported problems with Lazy Goo users, but we were absolutely in agreement with calling it off, the forecast was very accurate.

Darren Boyle · #26 13-06-2011

Sadly seeing how wet it was in practise, only ever getting worse, then forecast to get even heavier later is why I opted (along with a few others) not to even begin racing.

I felt as a shop owner it is too easy for people to say "its OK for you, you get your stuff at cost/free etc" so felt the best example to set was to not particiapate (even though I had a waterpoof ESC fitted).

It is always a shame when the weather screws up the racing and I bet that come our next meeting (indoors) it will be red hot and sunny again outside knowing our luck when we are all inside....

The only thing that baffles me is why oh why can we not just fall back on the already scheduled "reserve date" that we set and discussed (August 21st) which is surely there for these very occasions. All the politics and bull**** saying that "BRCA rules state" we have started the meeting so the results stand, to me is just rubbish. There were several very "random" results coming from yesterday. some people much higher than they would normally be, others with mechanical or water problems much lower and the WHOLE series, the entire year, will now be affected with this result included. It makes a mockery of the whole yearly regional season to me....

I know I was asked to come over and vote at race control (as head of one of the clubs in our area), but was very busy helping out two customers with ESC's that had blown up at the time so couldnt, my vote was clear (to cancel - since I did not even start myself at the beginning of the day) but I was not happy to hear the "BRCA rules state this or that" politics emerging out of the discussion that took place.......

It seems these "rules" get offered when it suits at present and ignored at other times..........

TheReferee · #27 13-06-2011

iwas not at the event so cannot comment on what did or did not happen, as for quoting the rules i usually find very few people actually know them.

below is the section on cancelling events.

19. CURTAILMENT OF EVENTS
19.1

National Championship events can only be abandoned by a majority vote of the Committee members
present, after consultation with the Race Director. Other Sanctioned events may be abandoned by the
Race Director in consultation with the Organisers.

19.2

At abandoned events, scores from any Rounds or Finals can only be used if all heats in the
respective Rounds or all Finals have been completed. The overall qualifying positions after the last
completed round at the time of abandonment, will count as final positions with the corresponding points
being counted towards the Championship, providing a minimum of two rounds have been completed.
Where Round-by-Round qualifying has been chosen the positions will be determined as per. rule 15.25.

19.3

At abandoned events where less than two rounds of qualifying have been completed, the event will
be declared null and void and no results declared. National events will not be re-scheduled and any
relevant championship qualification will be reduced accordingly (i.e. if there were 4 rounds to count from 6,
then one abandoned event would mean there are 3 rounds to count from 5, etc.).
Regional events can be rescheduled (subject to 6.5) at the discretion of the Regional Rep. If an event is
rescheduled to use a date not originally specified for any Class, then the number of events to count for the
Regional Championship in that Class will be reduced accordingly, to allow competitors to achieve the
minimum number of events using the original dates only.
If the normal Tie Deciding system of highest points does not achieve a result, then the highest Qualifying

position at the last event in the Series for the Class will be used to decide the tie.

As darren says there is little point having a reserve date if you are not going to use it, if there was any doubt that you could complete two rounds then the race director should have stopped the meeting before it even started, equally once two rounds are complete its a meeting and therefor scores for the series.

as for voting to cancel that only happens at nationals and voting is the committee only, at a regional it is the race directors decision after consultation with the organisors, the racers do not get a choice!, so i am not sure why any voting took place.

bottom line is it is up to the race director to race or not because if it all goes horribly wrong he is carrying the can or the lawsuit.

john

Darren Boyle · #28 13-06-2011

John, just to clarify, I am not knocking the club in any way. The weather is totally beyond their control naturally.

It started to rain throughout practice, and progressively got heavier and heavier. They endured 3 rounds (just about) of racing then it got halted due to the severity of the puddles etc. After several ESC's going bang (I counted and looked at myslef more than the number mnentioned of 6), all heads of clubs were asked into race control to "vote" (decide if you wish) whether to continue or not. I did not attend on behalf of Watford due to reasons above but passed on my thoughts that it should be abandoned. What I am questioning is why oh why can we not just simply re-run this event on the already set "cancellation date" we have pencilled in, in our Mid South Calendar on Auguest 21st. It is on the entry form, ALL racers who have booked in have been made aware of this date - via the booking in form (to avoid holidays etc in advance), it is there for dasy juts like this, lets use it.........

mattybucks · #29 13-06-2011

The racers did not get a vote, the organisers/race director made the decision to abandon the race, which in my opinion was the right one.

I know yesterday conditions were not ideal, however it's all part of racing, you never know how the weather is going to effect it, but it's the same for everyone.

Darren - Why should we re-run the event in august? The rules state two rounds, we did three. The decision was made yesterday it's not really on to change it to cancellation and re-run today.

TheReferee · #30 13-06-2011

i am not knocking anyone just making people aware of the "actual" rules rather than best guess or an old copy.

once you got passed two rounds you had a meeting and thats that.

The decision to abandon is up to the race director after consulting the organisors, now how you decide the term organisors is tricky, are we refering to the silverstone committee or the organisors of the mid south series, either way the race director makes the decision, he could have got a vote of carry on from the "organisors" he can still call it off as its his neck on the chopping block.

john

Swiss · #31 13-06-2011

Yep totally agree with you MattyBucks. Great event, weather was unfortunate but we have all been their before.

Thanks to Matt, John and the rest of the crew. Good stuff.

Darren - Random, I have been to some Regionals before and seen some random results!!!!
Instead of publicly moaning about the event, we should be supporting the Stone in difficult conditions under difficult circumstances. I am sure it was a very tricky decision to make the call. Let the guy's know at the time, then move on.

RoyalCBR · #32 13-06-2011

I had a great time, and my first outdoor event on astro turf - made even more trickier as it was tipping down!!

But I would have liked to have carried on (I was a goo-ier), but totally understand the reasons why it was called off as RC is an expensive hobby at the best of times.

All I can add, please can we have some more events at the Silverstone track Matt or John? It was fantastic

Cheers, Mark

RudeTony · #33 13-06-2011

I do not wish to become part of arguments in our region as I think it's doing just great but I don't agree with the meeting being cancelled the way that it did and these are the reasons why

Facts
We are next to Silverstone racing track that probably have the best weather predictions in Europe.
We ALL knew that it was going to be wet before getting in our cars at approximately 6.0am in the morning to go racing.
We all knew it was going to be raining from the moment it started in practice.
In my opinion this was the ONLY time we could of cancelled and re-run on another day.
Throughout the day we were rushing to avoid the big rain forecast for late afternoon so the decision to run was made in my opinion.
At no point through the day did we even mention that we may call it a day and abandon.
The track in round by round rules could of been changed to avoid any puddles if needed to be. (I thought the track was real good under the weather conditions anyways)
None of this was done and now we want to change it all.
From my personal point of view I decided to race and I waterproofed everything like one should under those conditions.
Darren decided not to race and that is fine too.
David Burton as you all know one of the most experienced racers around did not waterproof and paid the price. I can use his name with no one arguing!! LOL - some other possibly too did not bother - LC Lazy was offering stuff that helps - I didn't see many taking the option......
If people did not take the right precautions then what do they expect?

As for results Darren - they are not listed so can't make a comment.
Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of tyres ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored. If I knew we could possibly finish earlier I may of chose to use them and qualify higher. This is what happens when we don't inform everyone what may happen - no ones fault as such but just shows that everyone has a different opinion and at the end of day I just think finish what you started - the F1 in Canada did just that and what a race that was - LOL

Darren Boyle · #34 13-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swiss

Yep totally agree with you MattyBucks. Great event, weather was unfortunate but we have all been their before.

Thanks to Matt, John and the rest of the crew. Good stuff.

Darren - Random, I have been to some Regionals before and seen some random results!!!!
Instead of publicly moaning about the event, we should be supporting the Stone in difficult conditions under difficult circumstances. I am sure it was a very tricky decision to make the call. Let the guy's know at the time, then move on.

Paul, I am not moaning at all (or arguing), I am on the side of the club here, Matt has asked for opinions of those who "disagreed" with the cancellation, I thought it was the right choice.....

I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

What I am stating is that at the clubs meeting we sit down and discuss a date for cancelled events, so if they get abandoned, we can re-run on that date. We have done this and now are not using the date that is set, rule 19.3 from John below states for regionals this can be done

"Regional events can be rescheduled (subject to 6.5) at the discretion of the Regional Rep. If an event is
rescheduled to use a date not originally specified for any Class, then the number of events to count for the
Regional Championship in that Class will be reduced accordingly, to allow competitors to achieve the
minimum number of events using the original dates only."

People would rather race, than not race, so this "extra" meeting would allow them to race. Speaking to Matt, he "did" want to use the extra date and re-run but was told he could'nt. despite the rules for "regionals" saying it is at the discretion of the club and rep....

It was discussed at the time and I have spoke with Matt Owen (breifly) today about it too.

Matty, as I have mentioned the clubs agree on a date to "re-run", the "decision" was taken yesterday and will stand and be final I am sure, but it did not need to be in my opinion, it "could" have been re-run on the date set aside. For those who dont get what I refer to here is the booking in form (http://www.stotfoldmcc.co.uk/files/R..._form_2011.pdf) look at the top right underneath the dates, it reads -

"Please note. In the event of a rescheduled meeting

August 21st has been allocated."

Darren Boyle · #35 13-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudeTony

I do not wish to become part of arguments in our region as I think it's doing just great but I don't agree with the meeting being cancelled the way that it did and these are the reasons why

Facts
We are next to Silverstone racing track that probably have the best weather predictions in Europe.
We ALL knew that it was going to be wet before getting in our cars at approximately 6.0am in the morning to go racing.
We all knew it was going to be raining from the moment it started in practice.
In my opinion this was the ONLY time we could of cancelled and re-run on another day.
Throughout the day we were rushing to avoid the big rain forecast for late afternoon so the decision to run was made in my opinion.
At no point through the day did we even mention that we may call it a day and abandon.
The track in round by round rules could of been changed to avoid any puddles if needed to be. (I thought the track was real good under the weather conditions anyways)
None of this was done and now we want to change it all.
From my personal point of view I decided to race and I waterproofed everything like one should under those conditions.
Darren decided not to race and that is fine too.
David Burton as you all know one of the most experienced racers around did not waterproof and paid the price. I can use his name with no one arguing!! LOL - some other possibly too did not bother - LC Lazy was offering stuff that helps - I didn't see many taking the option......
If people did not take the right precautions then what do they expect?

As for results Darren - they are not listed so can't make a comment.
Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of tyres ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored. If I knew we could possibly finish earlier I may of chose to use them and qualify higher. This is what happens when we don't inform everyone what may happen - no ones fault as such but just shows that everyone has a different opinion and at the end of day I just think finish what you strted - the F1 in Canada did just that and what a race that was - LOL

Spot on Tony...

mattybucks · #36 13-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudeTony

Ps - I will also add that I had a new set of propellers ready for the finals as normally that is where the points are scored.

For once I agree with everthing you said Tony, we all knew it was going to be a wet one. If the meeting was going to be cancelled it should have been done at the drivers breifing stage.

The Silverstone crew made the decision to run, therefore the people who wanted to run did. I didn't waterproof anything. I just ran with the car with some foam in the front to soak up any water.

Darren - in regard to the following -
I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

Racing is not just about getting the car around the track, it's about preparing the your car as well. If we have a heatwave for the DMS regional, and we start seeing a large number of people's cars overheating what would they do for the next round? - Probably turn everything down, and run a milder motor.

TheReferee · #37 13-06-2011

if i understand darren correctly you wish to re run the regional?

put simply no you can't. the meeting went over two rounds and was therefor a "meeting" for scoring purposes.

can you use the reserve date for an "extra" regional?

not sure, the rules currently in force assume a meeting gets abandoned before two rounds and is null, if you have no reserve date you cannot add one, you simply drop from 3 from 4 to 2 from 3.

if you run all the regionals and then use the reserve date as an extra would you go from 3 from 4 to a 4 from 5? or go 3 from 5?.

having had a look at the rules i cannot see one that says you can't or what you do about the 3 from etc.

however should a driver who is lets say in a regional f3 position on the 3 from 4 having scored well at the silverstone meeting drop down to f4 with the inclusion of the extra meeting would he have grounds to protest? as he has probably lost his guaranteed national entry for the following season.

best bet would be to run it past paul worsley and then i really think you need to ask the drivers, you have plenty of time to get it right. worst case scenario is you run a meeting which you should not have done and all the mid south results are discounted for national ratings!!.

john

Darren Boyle · #38 13-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattybucks

Darren - in regard to the following -
I could not tell you who was in the top ten and who was not tbh, but by the comments I heard yesterday, several people who would "expect" to be in there were'nt due to DNF's, hence the word "random" for the results...

Racing is not just about getting the car around the track, it's about preparing the your car as well. If we have a heatwave for the DMS regional, and we start seeing a large number of people's cars overheating what would they do for the next round? - Probably turn everything down, and run a milder motor.

Not sure what your point is Matt, if we have a heatwave and are indoors in the shade then we wil be cooler than if we were outdoors in the direct sunlight???

I only mentioned the results since Alec said he had only done 1 run due to the conditions, the "weather" prevented drivers like him being were he woul;d have hoped to be, I guess Dave Burton could be included in that too from Tony's comments also. The rain (which is unavoidable) shakes up the results with more people than expected getting DNF's, as you said yoursefl a bit of foam and your car was "weather proofed" others I know did nothing and survived all three runs, yet some others used the obvious methods to protect their car far better than some and still fell foul of the water, you can not second guess these type of conditions, luck has a lot to do with it.......

Darren Boyle · #39 13-06-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReferee

if i understand darren correctly you wish to re run the regional?

put simply no you can't. the meeting went over two rounds and was threfor a "meeting" for scoring purposes.

can you use the reserve date for an "extra" regional?

not sure, the rules currently in force assume a meeting gets abandoned before two rounds and is null, if you have no reserve date you cannot add one, you simply drop from 3 from 4 to 2 from 3.

if you run all the regionals and then use the reserve date as an extra would you go from 3 from 4 to a 4 from 5? or go 3 from 5?.

having had a look at the rules i cannot see one that says you can't or what you do about the 3 from etc.

however should a driver who is lets say in a regional f3 position on the 3 from 4 having scored well at the silverstone meeting drop down to f4 with the inclusion of the extra meeting would he have grounds to protest? as he has probably lost his guaranteed national entry for the following season.

best bet would be to run it past paul worsley and then i really think you need to ask the drivers, you have plenty of time to get it right. worst case scenario is you run a meeting which you should not have done and all the mid south results are discounted for national ratings!!.

john

John,

From my own point of view, not fussed if it runs again or not (I cannot make the August date regardless), my undertsanding is now that it "has run" and survived the three rounds it stands end of (but it did not "have" to be that way yesterday) and I understand the club wanted to re-run also but was informed they could not.

My interpretation of the rules that you posted is that if you "add" another date, it then becomes 5 rounds (so the wet one still counts) but it is still the same number of rounds to count - ie 3, just 3 from 5 instead of 3 from 4. Any driver who was doing 3 from 4 still could, those who got taken out by the weather yesterday get another chance to get a good score with 3 from 5. The "extra" date in question is already set and in place for this reason....

Throughout all these posts I am 100% behind the club they did a sterling job yesterday and the conditions were tough. They had very little choice to cancel with the conditons getting worse and worse as time went on. For most of us it is juts our hobby, hobbies are there to be enjoyed and I dont know of too many people who were "enjoying" themselves that much yesterday as a result of the weather. I also stated that shop keepers often get pointed at when they DO run in adverse weather because people assume all our racing is FREE (which it is not) and that is why I decided NOT to run

mikeyscott · #40 13-06-2011

I survived the rounds yesterday & probably benefitted etc. from being higher up.. Would I race again if a 5th round was put in on the 21st August - yes. I would prob finish lower down the order re points, but I'd still happily race again. Even though I was up at 04:30 to make the trip!!