Mid South 4wd Regional 12/6/11 Silverstone RCMCC

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

Not sure what your point is Matt, if we have a heatwave and are indoors in the shade then we wil be cooler than if we were outdoors in the direct sunlight???

I only mentioned the results since Alec said he had only done 1 run due to the conditions, the "weather" prevented drivers like him being were he woul;d have hoped to be, I guess Dave Burton could be included in that too from Tony's comments also. The rain (which is unavoidable) shakes up the results with more people than expected getting DNF's, as you said yoursefl a bit of foam and your car was "weather proofed" others I know did nothing and survived all three runs, yet some others used the obvious methods to protect their car far better than some and still fell foul of the water, you can not second guess these type of conditions, luck has a lot to do with it.......

Well sunlight does not always = heat. If it hot outside the usually it's hot indoors as well.

Re Alec, then I think he will correct me of i'm wrong but on one run a drivershaft came out and on the second DNF his bodyshell came off.

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

Re Alec, then I think he will correct me of i'm wrong but on one run a drivershaft came out and on the second DNF his bodyshell came off.

So he needed a second run in round 4 which the weather stopped him getting due to no 4th round......

[TheReferee]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

John,

From my own point of view, not fussed if it runs again or not, my undertsanding is now that it "has run" and survived the three rounds it stands end of (but it did not "have" to be that way) and I understand the club wanted to re-run also but was informed they could not.

My interpretation of the rules that you posted is that if you "add" another date, it then becomes 5 rounds (so the wet one still counts) but it is still the same number of rounds to count - ie 3, just 3 from 5 instead of 3 from 4. Any driver who was doing 3 from 4 still could, those who got taken out by the weather yesterday get another chance to get a good score with 3 from 5. The "extra" date in question is already set and in place for this reason....

see your reasoning darren but the rules assume you are adding a date that was not on the race calender, so you add a new date and go to 3 from 5, however in this case the date already exists to cover for an abandoned event, so there would still only be 4 events and you stay 3 from 4. in this case you want to use a date put aside for an abandoned meeting as an extra meeting. if i was asked to interpret the rules i would say you go 4 from 5 which does not help anyone rain affected yesterday. fortunately i do not have to interpret !! .

another issue is does the race director have to use the rounds run to give a score for the meeting?, again it is interpretation looking at the rule.

19.2

At abandoned events, scores from any Rounds or Finals can only be used if all heats in the
respective Rounds or all Finals have been completed. The overall qualifying positions after the last
completed round at the time of abandonment, will count as final positions with the corresponding points
being counted towards the Championship, providing a minimum of two rounds have been completed.

Where Round-by-Round qualifying has been chosen the positions will be determined as per. rule 15.25.

i highlight that "will count" bit which says to me the race director has no leeway and once you have done two its a meeting. again i don't make those decisions so its my opinion rather than BRCA fact.

john

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by DMS Racing

So he needed a second run in round 4 which the weather stopped him getting due to no 4th round......

Yeah but I was going to finished 1st in round four which would have put me in the A............ maybe this will be his round to drop, as I sure you will Darren.

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by mattybucks

Yeah but I was going to finished 1st in round four which would have put me in the A............ maybe this will be his round to drop, as I sure you will Darren.

I have no points from that round to drop

[RudeTony]

If you run an extra meeting you must take in to account that some cannot do that meeting so stay 3 counting.
I cannot do the 21st (Euros I think)
Also if 4 counting then some like me might say I won't do the next one either as i can't finish them all and things like that.

Yesterdays meeting has to count what ever you decide.
Deciding an extra meeting will benefit those that were not at the meeting yesterday, those that can't waterproof their cars and or just make too many errors. i.e Alec and David - They can have the extra point as I won't be there on the 21st (I think)
I am laughing so much i can't take the pain......

ps - If Paul W. is reading this then get my £40 ready as i am opening up a can of whop ass for the weekend for Alec.
You will know what I am on about John.....

[Battle_axe]

I don't really understand the rules here or is it more the politics in my mind the weather has afected the results way past how driver prep and skill can at the end of the day as soon as luck is the way of scoring points it's not racing and we should really just play blackjack at the start and see who wins

I personally did about the same as I normally would at annother track however its my home track and i have done many laps on its surface so would have expected to be allot quicker also the people behind me were allot better drivers and a few in front are not they just got "lucky" (no disrespect) with the weather.

Just to reinforce my view think the event should be re-ran or at least run as an extra as I feel that's the most fair way to do this

[johnb]

A BIG Well done to the Silverstone crew for putting on a good event and trying to keep going as long as poss but had to call it a day in the end as the weather was getting worse.

But I don't understand all the rules and from my point of view I would like to re-run the meeting again as this would make it fair as Carl said it was being lucky the with weather rather than skill with lots of random results.

Which means people at the end of the season will be higher than they should be.

[chuckie stella]

Right people, I'll keep this brief as I've only had time to scan read the posts above and don't want anyone thinking I've quoted them by name.

If the decision was down to the race director then it would've ended the same way, for reasons I posted earlier. Safety is paramount, and as for cost, that's pretty high also. I think I bang on more than most club chairmen about how much our hobby costs for everyone and I'm always looking for ways for my members to keep costs down whenever possible.

I'm sorry more information wasn't revealed at the drivers briefing. I can only apologise as I'm new to this and should probably read the rules some time between running a business, family and trying to race myself. They're probably not good excuses I know, but if anyone wants the job of running a club to keep all of us guys racing then please apply for the job or start another club (our region could really do with it). I will try to give more information at drivers briefings in the future even though I do rely on the more experienced chaps participating to bring up any thing I've missed (not passing blame!!!!!!). I will take any criticism on my larger than normal chin!

Please, please do not argue between yourselves as I know most of you that have posted and can say you all have our clubs interest at heart. I didn't understand Darren's decision to not race at the start of the day, however, I understood around 5 hours later and after reading his reasons above.

CRB - with regards to your comment. Watch this space my friend

I've probably missed loads out on what I wanted to say and will probably be criticised for not knowing my facts enough or taking the time etc, but I'm up soon for a 02.00 start again and as ever, look forward to reading your comments tomorrow.

Thanks,

Matt

[mikeyscott]

No critisms from me dude, know the pain of running a club.

[mattybucks]

Matt,

A big thank you to you and the rest of the Silverstone team for putting on a great day. The track was awesome, I even enjoyed the fact it was raining.

More racing at Silverstone please guys

[budgio]

The Silverstone team always do a great job in running the race meets be it at Silverstone or Moto Arena.
I have no issues with any decisions made on the day.
Personally speaking i,ve never took part in a meet that was this wet before so the race conditions were all new to me and i,m thankful to have gained more experience on a soaked astro surface & i,m sure a few others would agree too.
I liked driving in the wet,the track was still good, but there was a lot of puddle dodging to be done by round three which unfortunatley proved costly for 6 or 7 racers.
A decision had to be made quickly and it was.
Maybe a decision to re-run/extra meet can be made quickly too?
I,m all up for more racing

[Swiss]

In fairness, from what I remember the top 10 was I wouldn't say random, I am pretty sure that all the drivers had made a regional A final before, so you cannot say that that is random. Unfortunately I am unsure of the finishing positons of everyone.
The two drivers mentioned in this thread are experienced enough to know how the weather conditions can effect Electric RC cars, and from looking through the thread one had other mechanical problems and the other chose not to weather proof his car. I am sure that at most of the main RC events there are random results for one reason or another. Shall we just keep re-running them until everyone is happy with their positions? They do say you make your own luck.
We all knew the possibilities, of damaging our cars/electrics as we to took to the track for round one. No one is forced.
It also suprises me, that know has mentioned the safety of ourselves/the marshalls, which I am sure is another tough decision that Matt and the team had to make.
Sorry Darren, you seem to be making a lot of noise about this on this thread, but when it came to the crunch and you was asked to voice your opinion you chose to do other things. I am sure, the urgent, (which I have no doubt it was) situation you was dealing with could have waited for a couple of minute, whilst you visited race control and gave your opinions. From what I remember someone even tried to call you on your mobile.

Anyway, again, I would like to say big thanks to Silverstone and everyone involved.

P

[Darren Boyle]

Originally Posted by Swiss

Sorry Darren, you seem to be making a lot of noise about this on this thread, but when it came to the crunch and you was asked to voice your opinion you chose to do other things. I am sure, the urgent, (which I have no doubt it was) situation you was dealing with could have waited for a couple of minute, whilst you visited race control and gave your opinions. From what I remember someone even tried to call you on your mobile.

I gather by your tone Paul you had a "good" result then on Sunday!!! When I said random results, there was peopel all over the place in all postions as it ended sunday, when the points come out you will see what I mean, of course the top 10 were still great drivers, they had to be (even more so in those conditions) to get the time in on that sort of surface, but this way of deciding the results is not the same as racing it out in finals etc.

Not sure why you keep singling me out, if you actually read my posts I have agreed with and supported the club on its decision to cancel, it was the right thing to do, read the opinions of the other people, they are asking for a re-run far more than me .... It is the "racers" on this thread who would have liked it re-run, those who just want a days racing rather then three rounds of lottery (or black jack as someone else called it), I have already said I could not care less either way (I cannot make the August 21st date myself so it does not affect me), my ONLY point is, at the regional meeting (somthing you are not at) the "clubs" decide a date that in the event of a meeting being abandoned we can then run on instead, this date is put on the entry form so everyone knows what it is and can plan around it, now we actualy have a use for it, we are not using it, seems crazy and a waste of time putting in place to start with!! (as seems to be the opinion of most of the "racers" (not me) on this thread who would have preffered it re-run)

The fact the "rules" state this or that is somthing being thrown around in our region far too much at present IMHO, they are ignored when preffered and adhered to strictly at other times, there is no consistency. I will explain. Our jump "HAD" to be moved at Watford since the car went out of sight breifly and it was too big, so reluctanlty we moved it, next week at Ware we had a jump were the car went out of sight (I had no problem with this) but the jump stayed, plus a jump twice the size of our "too big" one also which stayed. Ware chose to use tyres for track markers on some corners, rules say we cannot, but they stayed, now we are told "rules" tell us a soaking wet abandoned regional cannot be re-run. This is NO dig at the clubs, particular Ware (which I thouroughly enjoyed and look forward to going back to, with or without tyres on corners and big jumps) I am just stating that we only seem to bring out the "rule" book when it suits certain people......

Not sure what the discussion between the clubs in race control had to do with youself to be honest and to get the facts in order, I was soldering in an ESC for a customer whose had blown with the wet at the time. I was then called on my mobile (from all of 20 yards away) and told Matt there and then my vote would be to abandon, so my opinion WAS voiced (with soldering iiron in one hand and phone in the other), I also suggested we fell back onto the date reserved for abandoned meetings which Matt agreed and wanted to do but was told...... you guessed it..... the rules say no.

[Smartalec]

Just to put this to bed, I said at the start of this thread that I agreed that the meeting should have been cancelled and that the Silverstone crew had made the right decision. Personally I have no problems with the results standing the way they are, the people that benefitted from the escalated positions deserved to do just that and the people that lost out (me included) were just unlucky ....... that's racing.

To put the record straight though, my problem in round one was a driveshaft popping out as a result of me fitting a set of shocks to the car that weren't limited enough (they had X11 shock bottoms on so that was my fault for not checking the length properly). Round two was no problem (my one score) and round three the water got into the velcro on the bodyshell and peeled it off, this lifted the body from the car and as the more experienced racers will know the rules say that you have to stop circulating when this happens. The body was put back on a couple of times by marshals as I thought it wasn't fitted correctly but as soon as one shouted that the velcro had come off I had no option but to pull up. It wouldn't have been a wise move to carry on anyway because of the standing water, i'm not prepared to blow electrics up for fun. As we all know, round four didn't start. My car WAS properly waterproofed and I had NO actual mechanical problems OR driving mistakes so theres the PROPER account of my days racing, just to help Tony with his facts.

No idea why Tony brought up the National bet we have between us on this thread, perhaps he's losing his sense of direction as he nears retirement. But to clarify that too, it's one all at this stage (2wd to me and 4wd to him), now i've changed 4wd I might edge a little closer, who knows?

There also seems to be an interest by some (why?) in me changing back to the 511 halfway through the season. Anyone who wants to know the reason only has to come up and ask me and i'll tell them personally, though I have no idea why it's any of their concern what I do.

Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me

Good luck at the weekend mate, although in your mind you've obviously won already but i'm sure we'll all hear about it on here when you get home Sunday evening after you've collected the money from Paul

[RudeTony]

WOW - OMG I can't stop laughing.
Alec you are so paranoid - it's only £20 you are going to loose mate -LOL

Ring me you old fool

[JCJC]

With the expected weather, would it have been possible to move the venue to an indoor arena ?

[mattybucks]

Originally Posted by Smartalec

Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me

The gauntlet has been set! Will Tony accept Alec's offer and battle it out at the vets, and try and crawl back from his upcoming wager defeat? Tune in later to find out more!!

[RudeTony]

There is no doubt many will disagree with many others opinions and Darren has got a point about the rule for one and a rule for another or if you like when it suits here and not suit there. We had this once before recently if you all recall.
The facts are clear.
We all turned up to race and did (apart from 2 people and they are NOT the ones moaning)
We all run 3 rounds and by the BRCA rules we run by, the results stand whatever they are.
It is a BRCA sanctioned event and run under those rules so if someone does not like them then you have to come up with another idea that is better and then propose it to have the rule changed.
The point that someone else made, was about indoor racing and that his motor speedo or whatever thermalled, Another is at Ware Darren Bloomfield thermalled out because the track desired a hot motor, or this or that or whatever. You can't say AFTER the event that it wasn't fair, or should not of run it or lets have a re-run etc etc.
It was the same for everyone in horrible conditions and that is that - simples!
In wet conditions waterproof your stuff and indoors put fans in to keep things cool.
We all have to adapt to every condition thrown at us or throw 100K at an indoor event that no doubt someone will find something to moan at.
Live with it lads, it's done and dusted now but please please don't have a go at the organisers. The Silverstone crew did a great job as usual and where victims of their own success in trying to run as long as they saw possible.

AND FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT THIS MORNING I HAVE THE FOLLOWING:

Originally Posted by Smartalec

To put the record straight though, my problem in round one was a driveshaft popping out as a result of me fitting a set of shocks to the car that weren't limited enough (they had X11 shock bottoms on so that was my fault for not checking the length properly).

Mechanic is getting too old for this shit - LOL

Originally Posted by Smartalec

round three the water got into the velcro on the body shell and peeled it off,

Mechanic needs to get hold of better velcro or glue the bloody thing - LOL

Originally Posted by Smartalec

My car WAS properly waterproofed and I had NO actual mechanical problems OR driving mistakes so theres the PROPER account of my days racing, just to help Tony with his facts.

I have no idea what side of the bed the mechanic got out of bed this morning but I haven't laughed like this in a morning for years - LOL

Originally Posted by Smartalec

No idea why Tony brought up the National bet we have between us on this thread, perhaps he's losing his sense of direction as he nears retirement. But to clarify that too, it's one all at this stage (2wd to me and 4wd to him), now i've changed 4wd I might edge a little closer, who knows?

Just a reminder me old fruit -

Originally Posted by Smartalec

Hopefully, with Tony's new found form he'll do the Veterans meeting this year (at Silverstone) instead of the F2's and not cry off like last year when he knew he couldn't beat me

I out qualified you by some near 20 secs - you ok this morning?! - results are on line you know - LOL
I say this with my heart - I love Alec Springer.......
I wrote all this and their are still tears running down my face with laughter............

[Swiss]

To be honest Darren I am not sure, I stopped in the first round with a stripped servo horn, and in the secound and third, I believe I put in some good round scores.

You have kwown me for a long time Darren, to know I am not the sort of person to start or be involved in a confrentation, I have had my gripes over the years but sometimes, you just have to put it down to the rub of the green and get on with it. Which we did on sunday and thats that.

I just think soemtimes we are all too quick to post on these forums and highlight the negatives, instead of supporting the club helpers and club.

"Rubbing is Racing"

:-)

QUOTE=DMS Racing;514614]I gather by your tone Paul you had a "good" result then on Sunday!!! When I said random results, there was peopel all over the place in all postions as it ended sunday, when the points come out you will see what I mean, of course the top 10 were still great drivers, they had to be (even more so in those conditions) to get the time in on that sort of surface, but this way of deciding the results is not the same as racing it out in finals etc.

Not sure why you keep singling me out, if you actually read my posts I have agreed with and supported the club on its decision to cancel, it was the right thing to do, read the opinions of the other people, they are asking for a re-run far more than me .... It is the "racers" on this thread who would have liked it re-run, those who just want a days racing rather then three rounds of lottery (or black jack as someone else called it), I have already said I could not care less either way (I cannot make the August 21st date myself so it does not affect me), my ONLY point is, at the regional meeting (somthing you are not at) the "clubs" decide a date that in the event of a meeting being abandoned we can then run on instead, this date is put on the entry form so everyone knows what it is and can plan around it, now we actualy have a use for it, we are not using it, seems crazy and a waste of time putting in place to start with!! (as seems to be the opinion of most of the "racers" (not me) on this thread who would have preffered it re-run)

The fact the "rules" state this or that is somthing being thrown around in our region far too much at present IMHO, they are ignored when preffered and adhered to strictly at other times, there is no consistency. I will explain. Our jump "HAD" to be moved at Watford since the car went out of sight breifly and it was too big, so reluctanlty we moved it, next week at Ware we had a jump were the car went out of sight (I had no problem with this) but the jump stayed, plus a jump twice the size of our "too big" one also which stayed. Ware chose to use tyres for track markers on some corners, rules say we cannot, but they stayed, now we are told "rules" tell us a soaking wet abandoned regional cannot be re-run. This is NO dig at the clubs, particular Ware (which I thouroughly enjoyed and look forward to going back to, with or without tyres on corners and big jumps) I am just stating that we only seem to bring out the "rule" book when it suits certain people......

Not sure what the discussion between the clubs in race control had to do with youself to be honest and to get the facts in order, I was soldering in an ESC for a customer whose had blown with the wet at the time. I was then called on my mobile (from all of 20 yards away) and told Matt there and then my vote would be to abandon, so my opinion WAS voiced (with soldering iiron in one hand and phone in the other), I also suggested we fell back onto the date reserved for abandoned meetings which Matt agreed and wanted to do but was told...... you guessed it..... the rules say no.[/QUOTE]