Nick Griffin on Question Time - Page 3

bodgit · #41 25-10-2009

[quote=ashleyb4;302213]I agree with certain arguments from all parties. I want to start my own party. I think ill call it the "lets cut the bullsh*t party"
My mum is a teaching assitant at a secondary school and there are kids that come to school with ripped dirty cloths and the only thing that they will eat in the day is the free school dinner there given because there parrents just dont care or there off there head with drugs. This is a discrace that there are people driving round it ferrarri's range rovers etc etc and buying rediculous ammount of food they will never eat and there are small children out there of 11 who hardly eat. WTF is wrong here!!! The system is failling the system needs abolishing snd starting from scratch.

Is this a dig at Lee

DaveG28 · #42 25-10-2009

The difficulty in fixing the system in terms of people driving Ferrari's while others go hungry etc is how do you fix it?

Various people have already discussed the problem of scroungers staying at home on benefits, well the only way to stop the hunger is to pay them even more!! And punish the rich, how does that help create a culture of aspiration and hard work?? Don't get me wrong, I agree totally with the sentiment, just can't see how to achieve it!

Tbh I hate the rich bashing as much as I hate foreigner bashing, a few things people need to remember are:

1. Anyone complaining about "bankers" presumably has no private pension? Because it's the bankers hard work which creates extra value in those pensions!

2. They work incredibly hard in the city! Are they loaded, yes, the one guy I knew who went into the city had massive wall tv's, a flash car etc, but 6 mths after he bought the tv was still in the box because to get anywhere at all in the business they were expected to work 7am - 8pm Mon-Fri, all day Saturday on paperwork/planning etc, and show their faces every night at wherever the management are each night, blunty it breaks people!

3. Anyone who disagree's it's hard, well go and do it then, if it's so easy to get loaded.

4. If they've done it properly the gov will make a fortune on what they've pumped into the banking system!

5. "We need more manufacturing" is a total myth. If manufacturing made money we'd do it more already! What we need is to learn to make it profitable, not just pump money into it!! It's not just our labour laws either, although it partly is, other countries have similar labour laws and make it work. If we made manufacturing profitable then we'd do more of it!

P.S. I work in manufacturing!

superdez · #43 25-10-2009

Guys

Get yourselves over to http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/

Plenty of good debates, not all about the overvauled UK housing market.

Garry Driffill · #44 25-10-2009

[quote=bodgit;302301][quote=ashleyb4;302213]I agree with certain arguments from all parties. I want to start my own party. I think ill call it the "lets cut the bullsh*t party"
My mum is a teaching assitant at a secondary school and there are kids that come to school with ripped dirty cloths and the only thing that they will eat in the day is the free school dinner there given because there parrents just dont care or there off there head with drugs. This is a discrace that there are people driving round it ferrarri's range rovers etc etc and buying rediculous ammount of food they will never eat and there are small children out there of 11 who hardly eat. WTF is wrong here!!! The system is failling the system needs abolishing snd starting from scratch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodgit

is this a dig at Lee

I dont think it was, and that wasnt creative at all..

But i can see what Ash means in light of the high rollers compared to people who dont have much. I'm not going what Lee might earn or what ever, that has nothing to do with any of us but im sure he has worked hard for what he has now? It wasnt just given to him was it?

ANYWAY.

It is sad the way some kids are brought up in shady areas of our country and there parents might receive the same amount of benifits anouther parent maybe receiving if they have similer situations money wise and get on and try there hardest and do ok and provide the best for there kids on what they have wheras other parents arent as supportive and dont really care what there kids get upto..

Alfonzo · #45 25-10-2009

Ah good ol' housepricecrash.co.uk I banned myself from it, 'cause I got well addicted! Some good discussion on there. Some right weirdo's too, mind..

DaveG28 - Some contradiction in your opinion regarding manufacturing. When I saw we need more, I mean a greater contribution from manufacturing to GDP, not necessarily actually more people doing it. Better support, more forward looking, more Engineer's and Science based people in a position to influence our national strategy.

Basically, we need to get sorted.

DaveG28 · #46 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfonzo

Ah good ol' housepricecrash.co.uk I banned myself from it, 'cause I got well addicted! Some good discussion on there. Some right weirdo's too, mind..

DaveG28 - Some contradiction in your opinion regarding manufacturing. When I saw we need more, I mean a greater contribution from manufacturing to GDP, not necessarily actually more people doing it. Better support, more forward looking, more Engineer's and Science based people in a position to influence our national strategy.

Basically, we need to get sorted.

All I meant was you keep hearing people say "this down turn wouldn't have happened if we had more manufacturing, why is money going into banking and not manufacturing" when with the way this country does manufacturing, the economy would be an absolute basket case if we went down that route!

Si Coe · #47 25-10-2009

I was teaching in the Business studies room on Friday. It had a rather interesting poster on the wall showing all the different departments in a company. It was most amusing as it had HR, R&D, Customer Services, Marketing, Transport etc up top and right at the bottom, virtually an afterthought Production. And I felt that summed up the current problems in Manufacturing - compared to all the other departments actually making stuff is expensive and not obviously profitable (not when Marketing and Transport take a cut first) so most companies seem keen to do as little of it as possible!

Before I was a teacher I worked in industry - the factory I worked at had 400 staff, but only about 100 in actual production. Operations got moved to a massive plant in China, with over 2000 staff, 1800 in production. Thats why they make stuff cheaper, not labor rates but much more efficient use of their staff!

Alfonzo · #48 25-10-2009

Production and manufacturing suffer from an image problem in the UK, sadly. Should be the opposite, in my opinion. Especially those of us (I am biased, you see

) that struggle along working hard making goods that get exported.

ashleyb4 · #49 25-10-2009

No it wasnt a dig at lee i was going to put ferrari and porsch but i couldnt spell it right so i put range rover instead. I dont have anythign against rich people the people who work and earn them selves lots of money infact i want to be one of them people who gets a good job and a nice big house

What ever happen it isnt going to happen over night change will take a long time.

A

[quote=bodgit;302301]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashleyb4

I agree with certain arguments from all parties. I want to start my own party. I think ill call it the "lets cut the bullsh*t party"
My mum is a teaching assitant at a secondary school and there are kids that come to school with ripped dirty cloths and the only thing that they will eat in the day is the free school dinner there given because there parrents just dont care or there off there head with drugs. This is a discrace that there are people driving round it ferrarri's range rovers etc etc and buying rediculous ammount of food they will never eat and there are small children out there of 11 who hardly eat. WTF is wrong here!!! The system is failling the system needs abolishing snd starting from scratch.

Is this a dig at Lee

SlowOne · #50 25-10-2009

Manufacturing is such a dumb thing to do - which is why France and Germany have moved into growth while we are still in recession. Oh, they have a large manufacturing sector, so that can't be right!!

I work for one of the major manufacturers in the country, that has continued to invest in its facilities for the last five years, and just announced another three years of investment - we are talking £100s of millions. Our problem? We can't get enough people with a good education, and we watch the Government throw £200bn at the banks and about £100m at industry. And as for the idea that if we had relied on manufacturing we would be broke - tell that to Toyota, Honda, Sony, Rolls-Royce, British Aerospace, Alenia, Westland, GKN, Renishaw and any number of other World leaders in their markets. Industry is not British Steel and Rover, and never has been.

There is no simple solution, and there is no chance that we will take it apart and rebuild it. To do that we'd all have to agree to something, and one look at this thread tells you that's not going to happen. It would mean that we would have to compromise, something unlikely in the 'me' generation.

That's Griffin's problem, and the reason he can never make his policies work. When push comes to shove, we will never agree to it as we are not prepared to compromise for the overall good, and no single-issue party has ever managed to govern - even the Greens, and we mostly agree with them!!

Oh well, tomorrow I'll go back to being an engineer, and as Alfonso says, be regarded as someone with dirty hands turning a handle. Monday's good though, I'll be in a clean factory developing a new method of making a part that halves costs, doubles capability and will keep production in the UK.

DaveG28 · #51 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlowOne

Manufacturing is such a dumb thing to do - which is why France and Germany have moved into growth while we are still in recession. Oh, they have a large manufacturing sector, so that can't be right!!

I work for one of the major manufacturers in the country, that has continued to invest in its facilities for the last five years, and just announced another three years of investment - we are talking £100s of millions. Our problem? We can't get enough people with a good education, and we watch the Government throw £200bn at the banks and about £100m at industry. And as for the idea that if we had relied on manufacturing we would be broke - tell that to Toyota, Honda, Sony, Rolls-Royce, British Aerospace, Alenia, Westland, GKN, Renishaw and any number of other World leaders in their markets. Industry is not British Steel and Rover, and never has been.

There is no simple solution, and there is no chance that we will take it apart and rebuild it. To do that we'd all have to agree to something, and one look at this thread tells you that's not going to happen. It would mean that we would have to compromise, something unlikely in the 'me' generation.

That's Griffin's problem, and the reason he can never make his policies work. When push comes to shove, we will never agree to it as we are not prepared to compromise for the overall good, and no single-issue party has ever managed to govern - even the Greens, and we mostly agree with them!!

Oh well, tomorrow I'll go back to being an engineer, and as Alfonso says, be regarded as someone with dirty hands turning a handle. Monday's good though, I'll be in a clean factory developing a new method of making a part that halves costs, doubles capability and will keep production in the UK.

If we were so good at manufacturing we'd have bought out those foreign companies listed, not the other way around!! It's taken those foreign companies running things (and doing things our unions would have never accepted from UK owners before them) to make the UK plants work, which should tell you something! I'm not denying we can he good at production, in the manufacturing businesses I've worked in it's the total lack of customer focus and basic economics which is killing them, the actual production side works well! Unfortunately they have been obsessed with making the products they want, in the way they want, and "whatever it costs", regardless of what the customer actually wants or will pay for it, madness!!

In contrast, the service industry businesses I have been in have been ruthlessly customer focussed and performed much better economically because of it!

The reason banking has been given more money is because it has had a one off balance sheet problem requiring capital, which will more than likely be more than paid back in full! Over the last 50 years manufacturing has had no end of help/investment/grants etc. A lot of the manufacturing businesses demanding government money in the downturn are fundamentally weak anyway, unlike the banks! In the US Ford/GM being classic examples, it's not just here in the UK!

And it's so simplistic to say manufacturing must be good because Germany/France have come out of recession faster, it's just as easy to say it's because they don't speak English, or like Garlic/Sausages, there's no proof it's linked rather than coincidence! What's far more likely is they have recovered better due to lower debt going in to the downturn, so less gov funds have been soaked up in filling in debt holes, and more has gone into actual stimulating of the economy, unlike here, due to our gov and personal debt levels!

No one wants to blame that though do they, as it require personal responsibility instead of blaming banks and engaging in class warfare!! Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch on reversing class!

DCM · #52 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG28

The difficulty in fixing the system in terms of people driving Ferrari's while others go hungry etc is how do you fix it?

Various people have already discussed the problem of scroungers staying at home on benefits, well the only way to stop the hunger is to pay them even more!! And punish the rich, how does that help create a culture of aspiration and hard work?? Don't get me wrong, I agree totally with the sentiment, just can't see how to achieve it!

Tbh I hate the rich bashing as much as I hate foreigner bashing, a few things people need to remember are:

1. Anyone complaining about "bankers" presumably has no private pension? Because it's the bankers hard work which creates extra value in those pensions!

2. They work incredibly hard in the city! Are they loaded, yes, the one guy I knew who went into the city had massive wall tv's, a flash car etc, but 6 mths after he bought the tv was still in the box because to get anywhere at all in the business they were expected to work 7am - 8pm Mon-Fri, all day Saturday on paperwork/planning etc, and show their faces every night at wherever the management are each night, blunty it breaks people!

3. Anyone who disagree's it's hard, well go and do it then, if it's so easy to get loaded.

4. If they've done it properly the gov will make a fortune on what they've pumped into the banking system!

5. "We need more manufacturing" is a total myth. If manufacturing made money we'd do it more already! What we need is to learn to make it profitable, not just pump money into it!! It's not just our labour laws either, although it partly is, other countries have similar labour laws and make it work. If we made manufacturing profitable then we'd do more of it!

P.S. I work in manufacturing!

I have no problems with them getting paid well, for what they do, but there has been plenty of people, paid good bonuses, for systems that have failed, or, where the bank hasn't paid it's hard working minions a bonus, then given themselves millions, yes, they make decisions, but the mess they got the system into, they should at least make then bonuses smaller, so it is an easier figure to digest.

Bankers are at fault, for buying and selling toxic debt, a small number of the public are at fault, for taking loans/mortgages that you have no hope in hell of affording, and a government who let it happen, and then nearly bankrupt the country, bailing the banks out, but not using ANY of it's new influence it has in the bank, to make them change.

So, lets not bullshit about poor bankers..... I feel sorry for the people who have worked for 40 years, paid into a pension all his life, for it now to be worthless thanks to Gordon Brown pillaging it, and the banks squandering it.

bodgit · #53 25-10-2009

I was watching The Big Questions this morning and learnt a few new things reguarding international aid. Apparently we give india something like £1.2 billion a year aid. Ok I thought they really need that. Shit 2 seconds later they say india send £6billion a year on their space program.
Why the hell are we bailing out their people when they could so easily do it themselves. We also give billions to other countries who are spending it on weapons instead of people.
Keep the money here

ashleyb4 · #54 25-10-2009

I think one of the worst things the government did was to privatise things.

They should of kept the trains and bus servies. What is something 99% of the population of this country uses lots of electricity most of the regional electrical companys these days are owned by companys abroad mainly spain. So the money we pay for our electricity gets invested in spains econamy. Thats billions!!!!

A

DaveG28 · #55 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCM

I have no problems with them getting paid well, for what they do, but there has been plenty of people, paid good bonuses, for systems that have failed, or, where the bank hasn't paid it's hard working minions a bonus, then given themselves millions, yes, they make decisions, but the mess they got the system into, they should at least make then bonuses smaller, so it is an easier figure to digest.

Bankers are at fault, for buying and selling toxic debt, a small number of the public are at fault, for taking loans/mortgages that you have no hope in hell of affording, and a government who let it happen, and then nearly bankrupt the country, bailing the banks out, but not using ANY of it's new influence it has in the bank, to make them change.

So, lets not bullshit about poor bankers..... I feel sorry for the people who have worked for 40 years, paid into a pension all his life, for it now to be worthless thanks to Gordon Brown pillaging it, and the banks squandering it.

The pension was only ever worth more than putting it in a shoe box because of the bankers though!!

Anyway, I do agree bonuses shouldn't be given when it goes wrong at least!

Although, I'll be getting a bonus this year from a loss making none banking business, should I turn it down??

DaveG28 · #56 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodgit

I was watching The Big Questions this morning and learnt a few new things reguarding international aid. Apparently we give india something like £1.2 billion a year aid. Ok I thought they really need that. Shit 2 seconds later they say india send £6billion a year on their space program.
Why the hell are we bailing out their people when they could so easily do it themselves. We also give billions to other countries who are spending it on weapons instead of people.
Keep the money here

It's our weapons they spend it on though!

Madness the way all the money moves!!

DCM · #57 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG28

The pension was only ever worth more than putting it in a shoe box because of the bankers though!!

Anyway, I do agree bonuses shouldn't be given when it goes wrong at least!

Although, I'll be getting a bonus this year from a loss making none banking business, should I turn it down??

No, you put money into a pension, for it to be safely invested, not squandered, which it has been, I do agree that the banks should be split, and the general banking, should be forced to 'safely invest' your money, if you 'wish' to take the risk, then that should be made obvious. The crisis was over selling and buying of toxic debt, which was started by the banks, and traders made millions in bonuses on that, only for it to nearly take down the Free Market Economy.

Now, we as a public, own large stakes in the banks, the government should now use this position, to force changes in the banking structure, and bonus culture.

bodgit · #58 25-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG28

It's our weapons they spend it on though!

Madness the way all the money moves!!

It should be spent on OUR NHS

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/06/scandal-br...n-nhs-deficit/
think about it next time you have to wait for a hospital appointment

DCM · #59 25-10-2009

Actually, the NHS has never been so well funded, but why does it not work, cause it is a target led organisation, where money is pumped in, you don't see it in more wards, nurses, consultants, doctors, you get bed managers, ward managers, art work and statues. Waiting lists are no shorter for most issue's, except heart and cancer, you may only wait 8-12 weeks to see the conusltant, but you have waited 18 months, to see the nurse, to be assessed as to whether you need to see the consultant.

I was at a residence meeting a week or so ago, and a rep from the NHS tried to stand up, and tell us that the NHS was acheiving the best results it ever had.... except for my mother waiting 4 hours for an emergency ambulance, or my father having a knee op, then being offered an ambulance to collect him to take him to physio, that never turned up.

SlowOne · #60 28-10-2009

This thread is a mirror of what happens to one-issue parties like the BNP. Once the initial burst of bile has gone, people get back to talking about what really matters, and realise that single-issue parties can't help the real problems.

@DaveG28 - I'll remember that when my taxes have gone up by 30% or so in the years to come. Bankers were not at fault, and I'm only paying off a National Debt bigger than anything for 200 years because manufacturing deserved to fail because it wasn't customer focused. I don't think manufacturing has put me in £200bn debt, nor do I think that any of the UK banks owned by France, Spain and Germany have either. If you think your tax rate is high now...