All 2WD should be rear motor

[neallewis]

Originally Posted by bretts

For me, this is the most fun car & class of all, good 'ol York. Even Neil Lewis ran his Yok Bmax2 in rear motor config. There's nothing better than catching a bit of drift on a hair pin, but I do agree times do move on

York 540 sealed can is ace fun racing, love it. run my rc10s or bmax2 in rear.
Video from last weeks champs night final, John Walton just getting me at the end due to a silly mistake on my part. Bretts was giving me a good race in the heats.

http://youtu.be/BfDEoYS53Lw

[janus_77]

I'd say you have to use the same car you started the event with.

Sure you can have a rain / spare car with older electrics, but it should be the same model in the same configuration.

I don't mind the current trend of "just test any random configuration". This evolution is part of racing, and this is the way it should be.

[Aire valley]

Brett.......for a rear motor car....what's all that weight up front for..? to get it to handle like a mid motor..?

[bretts]

Originally Posted by Aire valley

Brett.......for a rear motor car....what's all that weight up front for..? to get it to handle like a mid motor..?

Yeah, I suppose to keep up with mid motor cars & it gives me something to polish.

but, my thinking is that the B4 was designed for Nimh batteries which were about 400g so with a lipo being 280-300g I can put the extra weight up front better steering on the super slippy york floor

[remoh racing]

the point I'd like to make is in a nutshell that if you cant drive you can't drive.And if that's the case front,rear or mid won't make a blind bit of difference a top drive could still more than likely make a national a final with a ready to run mad rat for example imo its 80% driver 20% car

[mark christopher]

with the current crop of 2wd cars im enjoying off roading more than ever

[AC199]

I think as long as its only driven by 2 wheels, the clue is in the name of the class. Top drivers will always be able to drive anything they want to.

Now, at club level and below (which is my level) I can see a slight reason to segregate the different cars out, but so long as you're having fun who honestly gives a flying ****?

If you're concerned about where you're finishing spend the money and buy all 4 options, if not, run what you brung.

You do have the option to separate them out at your race series though Jimbo... Why not try it as see how it goes?

[cmgreen]

What if some one made a rear motor 2wd that has the front wheels being driven and that car is the fastest out there, still a 2wd, will people complain then?

I can't see a problem with a manufacture designing the best car out there and then selling it. The problem occurs when a manufacture designs and races a car for the team drivers and the rest of us can't buy it. Gotta give Schumacher a A* for this, they test a part and if it's better they sell it within weeks of testing it, so we all can run run the team car if we want.

9 times out of 10 anyway it's the driver that makes the difference

[jimmy]

Car is everything now. Even mid motor cars can't keep up with a front-mid on some tracks which is why they refer to them as 'cheater cars'. So it's bogus to think for a moment the car isn't a huge factor.
Are all the national A finalists for instance happy with their current 2WD cars or do they either wish they had other options or the old car they ran a couple of seasons ago which was quicker..... ?

The cars are going to get better and better - but having a compromise where you can have many layouts in one chassis isn't going to be feasable. So having three 2WD cars could be the future - and it already is for some.

I'd merrily welcome lower traction tracks - in fact, it's the only type of track I enjoy. If I can't 'ken block' it round a bit then why bother!

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Hugely emotive subject this one.

Can't and shouldn't stop evolution / progress but for sure, it has to be balanced with regard to cost - especially once the evolution gets to the point where it is detrimental to class numbers and the longevity of the class.

Note - I'm not suggesting that this point has / has not occurred in 1:10 Off road EP 2WD yet.

For me though the issue is about grip and the abundance of it. Regardless of where the motor is placed, or how many chassis's you now need to be 'competitive', we've reached a situation now where 4WD is now so reactive that they're almost impossible to hang on to in dry conditions and 2WD has become very chassis specific.

Astroturf has it's benefits and although I prefer old skool natural surfaces (and the skill in pitting yourself against a degrading surface which demands subtle changes during the day to stay on top of the changes when you next go out), you can't argue that Astro has made off road much more accessible all-year round in our climatic conditions and has made it easier for clubs to run meetings without constant track repairs.

So if the surface can't change, then how else can the grip be limited?

For me its simple - why can't we mechanically limit the available grip by enforcing harder tyres - or banning inserts?
It was muted once by a much cleverer guy than me but it was ridiculed back then.
I suspect the same will happen now - but if grip is the root cause of the issue, then take some of it away.

BTW - I'm with Jimmy - can't beat the feeling of driving a well sorted rear motor car for the feedback and enjoyment it gives you - but it's hard to accept being much much slower than cars in the 'same' class and its got to a point where the racing lines are so different between rear motor and front/mid motor that the two are scarcely compatible without some respect and gentlemenly driving.

Its probably no wonder that Vintage is becoming more popular - but it's enjoying a heyday at the moment because it's still seen as being fun and not uber serious.

[remoh racing]

Originally Posted by jimmy

Car is everything now. Even mid motor cars can't keep up with a front-mid on some tracks which is why they refer to them as 'cheater cars'. So it's bogus to think for a moment the car isn't a huge factor.
Are all the national A finalists for instance happy with their current 2WD cars or do they either wish they had other options or the old car they ran a couple of seasons ago which was quicker..... ?

The cars are going to get better and better - but having a compromise where you can have many layouts in one chassis isn't going to be feasable. So having three 2WD cars could be the future - and it already is for some.

I'd merrily welcome lower traction tracks - in fact, it's the only type of track I enjoy. If I can't 'ken block' it round a bit then why bother!

jimmy I agree to a point but Imo unless a cheater car is sold as a complete kit ie available out of the box then it should be banned ie convertion kits not that there is anything wrong with them but it dosnt give manufacturers like tlr a chance how could you build a fully tlr based cheater car what with the 22-4's motor position

[jimmy]

love low traction surfaces - I raced my tlr22 in rear motor at York and Batley and it was awesome. With the likes of Andy Shillito behind be with another 22 but in mid motor it was so different to see the styles. His car just went to the apex and turned. I was on the brakes before the corner to get the car sideways on the polished floor and then trying to get the power down with a bit of opposite lock.
That is just fun to me, in fact - it's hilarious.

[remoh racing]

and what about imposing a motor limit on cheater cars if they are that much faster say maximum of a 10.5 for example
have to say also I agree there is nothing quite like driving a rear motored car on a slippery track

[cmgreen]

Reading more into this, I don't think we car blame any manufacturer that designs its car more around what the user wants. If I were to blame any one it would be the clubs who design and make the tracks. But we all love these new astro tracks, I do. High grip tracks everywhere, and a manufacturer designs a car to work on those tracks, well done them!

They have designed a car within the rules, not cheated, just plain and simple engineering at its best. Am just glad it's a uk company that did it first, congrats to them! British engineering at its best! If you can't beat em join em.

Maybe we should ask the brca to put a rule in there somewhere that at track must be a % astro and what ever else (I dunno).

Anyway, I love my kf and my sv2 so am happy

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by jimmy

You know its either axle right?
I own mid cars from before tekin probably existed, 566b. I prefer off road that's loose or slippy myself, i like to get a slide on with a bit of oppo

Jimmy, me too so no harm in having a 2wd rear motor heat only at events, should be a laugh and may dig out my B2 as I loved driving that

[jimmy]

Mate, i went up to jurai hudy and asked if they will make a one way for the xb4 and he just looked at me like i was on crack. Yeah ok, so I like to handbrake into corners

[DCM]

Originally Posted by jimmy

love low traction surfaces - I raced my tlr22 in rear motor at York and Batley and it was awesome. With the likes of Andy Shillito behind be with another 22 but in mid motor it was so different to see the styles. His car just went to the apex and turned. I was on the brakes before the corner to get the car sideways on the polished floor and then trying to get the power down with a bit of opposite lock.
That is just fun to me, in fact - it's hilarious.

I think the main issue here is that racers are wanting all weather tracks, astro tracks coming the norm and people can get away with the greater amount of steering. I do love the fact that I can pile up to the corner, slam the brakes on and flick it round, but it isn't graceful.

I do miss rear motor though.

[jimmy]

I just wonder if there's a place for either having more low traction tracks or a rear motor class. Perhaps it's mostly the tracks and the demands of the racers and lack of money.
Batley used to have that clay corner but it was so much work every time we turned up to race, and if it rained it was just not used, so it was astro'd which was a shame really in a way.

[DCM]

I love racing on grass, especially as it wears as it isn't just a matter of full lock, full power like on Astro which, unlike grass which deteriorates during the day, astro gets faster. Downside to that is that when you have a mistake it ends up being messy.

Maybe nationals should be on grass.....

Back in the day, people didn't care what they raced on, now they want to run on clean, pristine and groomed surfaces.

[dwp102]

[QUOTE=Gnarly Old Dog;889890

For me though the issue is about grip and the abundance of it. Regardless of where the motor is placed, or how many chassis's you now need to be 'competitive', we've reached a situation now where 4WD is now so reactive that they're almost impossible to hang on to in dry conditions and 2WD has become very chassis specific.

Astroturf

So if the surface can't change, then how else can the grip be limited?

For me its simple - why can't we mechanically limit the available grip by enforcing harder tyres - or banning inserts?
It was muted once by a much cleverer guy than me but it was ridiculed back then.
I suspect the same will happen now - but if grip is the root cause of the issue, then take some of it away. [/QUOTE]

What about a spec class using any 2wd car you want but it has to be nominated at the start of the day no motor or battery or esc restrictions but the only tires that can be used are green blocks rear and green lp cut staggered ribs at the front regardless if it is dry or wet? And limit the number of sets to be used for the day to 2.