BJ4WE and total lack of balance

[RogerM]

Thanks Chris, what your saying is true of my previous cars and makes perfect sense! That was part of the reason I kept the inner mounting point on the front as the car just seems to push like mad anyway so anything I can do to help with mid corner / corner exit steering is seen as a help.

As for the one-way diff ...... if it is absolutely required I'm probably going to move the car on and go for something else .... I dislike them that much. It's partly the way they drive and partly the fact that they seem to destroy everything around them!

KyoshoK, my electrics are all on one side .... servo, LRP Comp TC brushless then spectrum reciever .... I tried to get it all on one side to balance the motor weight as much as I could ... could probably do with a few extra grams to even it out further I agree.

[RogerM]

I know that they are frowned upon by the 1/10th off-raod masses but I have always run anti-roll bars on everything from the Optima Mids through Preds to the car that I ran when I was last racing 1/10th O.R.

So .... question is ... how many people run them or have tried them and what do you think about the instalation of them on the BJ4WE???
I'm not worried if the standard bars are too thick or thin as afterall they are just a bent bit of piano wire .....

[markwilliamson2001]

Most don't tend to run them unless on very high grip AND smooth tracks (both front and rear) or on smooth low grip dirt tracks (rear only to assist steering mid-corner).

HTH
Mark
I don't tend to run them at all tbh on any buggy.

[Northy]

I don't even run the on them Pred these days.

G

[Chris Doughty]

try a tighter front diff and slightly looser rear diff then Roger, this might give what your looking for.

one-ways give very much a 'drive front the front' feel to the car, I would have thought you would have liked it?

[Richard Lowe]

Can you post your exact setup Roger?

As Lee has said already we almost never run on the inside hole of the front wishbone unless desperate for steering, on the outside the car is very consistent.

I've only managed to get the centre one-way to feel right at one event, and that was Tiverton on dirt so generally the centre one-way is a no no.

Another thing to look for is how aggresivly you are driving, the car really likes you to be gentle and controlled - sit back, drive at 90% and let it do the work, 'ragging it' just doesn't work.

Something else I have found is the car always feels 'loose' and moves around more than most other cars, when it's set up correctly and is fast you are almost in a permanent state of drift.


Paul - I remember when you had a go with my car at Southport, you almost needed a change of underpants first time you turned into a corner haha

[super__dan]

As an outsider to the BJ4;-

Firstly to echo Pauls comments, I too have never driven a car with so much on power(controlable) as Rich's. You say you're running Rich's setup but without a one way diff then surely you're not, and a pretty massive change it is too.

Other than that, Rich Coates car was consistantly a pig when he got it, no obvious reason. I think it was traced to a tweaked bit of blue on it somewhere and more importantly a mis functioning centre one way, but I forget what or why but when he went to full time 4wd, he was instantly a country mile faster. Now he likes the car he's on a one way diff and was second at Worksop yesterday I think.

[Richard Lowe]

Dan, Rich's centre one way was broken and wasn't getting drive half the time, we removed it and the car improved but was still rubbish. When I rebuilt the car for him the back end was tweaked for some reason, I put it back together using the same parts and it was fine again

I blame the origonal owner, wonder who that was

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

Can you post your exact setup Roger?

Been using your Bury starting set-up as a base but have been up and down upto 2 spring grades at both ends (keeping a balance and also biasing one end by one grade). Also run links from the longest to the shortest (as your Bury set-up). I might have mis-read the sheet but it still looks like it's on the inner hole to me! Car always feels poor no matter whatTBH.

As Lee has said already we almost never run on the inside hole of the front wishbone unless desperate for steering, on the outside the car is very consistent.

Been REALLY desperate for steerign on ever run .... the sliding back end I can live with ... so long as the front isn't pushing hard at the same time which has been the case.

I've only managed to get the centre one-way to feel right at one event, and that was Tiverton on dirt so generally the centre one-way is a no no.

I am really not a fan of front one-ways, not even a little bit as I find they make the car inconsistent as you modulate the throttle to control turn radius and absolutely unpredictable when you have to shut the throttle mid corner (say to avoid somebody having their own accident). Not really keen on spending big bucks on something that I will probably use once and then leave in the box so unless somebody has one I can borrow to try it's unlikely to happen.

Another thing to look for is how aggresivly you are driving, the car really likes you to be gentle and controlled - sit back, drive at 90% and let it do the work, 'ragging it' just doesn't work.

I'm an old stock racer and thus I try to keep as much corner speed as possible and be gentle on the sticks (couldn't afford to scrub off speed as you didn't have any power!). In fact when I have a car to my liking I only really use full lock in low speed hairpins and to get out of sticky spots. Most people can't drive my cars as they need such a light touch.

Something else I have found is the car always feels 'loose' and moves around more than most other cars, when it's set up correctly and is fast you are almost in a permanent state of drift.

That is fine by me, rather that than it grip rolling and snatching about!!

Paul - I remember when you had a go with my car at Southport, you almost needed a change of underpants first time you turned into a corner haha

I am greatful for any help offered at the moment as I am currently of the opinion that nothing other than a re-engineering job to move a fair chunk of the weight forward is going to help. If that is the case I'd probably try a different chassis as I just don't have anywhere to test without driving for around 1.5 hours plus due to living in racing no-mans-land ... Cheltenham.

Any further suggestions (other than fitting a one way diff)????

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by DoughtyUK.net

try a tighter front diff and slightly looser rear diff then Roger, this might give what your looking for.

one-ways give very much a 'drive front the front' feel to the car, I would have thought you would have liked it?

Chris,

front diff is much tighter than the rear (but still working nicely if you knwo what I mean). Rear diff is just on the limit of slipping on high grip stuff!!!

I have never really got on with one-way diffs. They are probably managable if your in a heat where your not likely to have to drive around others but even when I was racing before as an F2 I always seemed to be seeded low (....think StuW was trying to tell me something )

More than anything (other than the price) the fact that the S4 has to run a one-way diff or full time 4wd is what put me off going that route!!

I do like the drive from the front feel but it has to come from the chassis. I so nearly got the Pred again when coming back into the sport but the lack of support troubled me.

Thanks for the suggestions by the way.

[gordy]

You'll have somewhere to try it out soon Roger. We're building a 10th off road track at Ledbury, next to our rally cross track. And if you are getting rid of the BJ4, fire it in my direction!!

[Lee]

Sorry roger, one way`s are the future,

You can even use the brakes when using the 1 way in the BJ4, it is very consistant, lots of high and low speed turn in, its just so easy to drive.

Stick with it, possibly ask rich or myself for a go if were about and see how ours compare

[matdodd]

Most people do run oneway diffs now Rog, the only people I can think of that dont are Yardy & Daz! It might be worth taking a look at Yardys D4 setup.

From past experiance when ive gone from a good setup with a oneway diff to the same setup with a diff in the front its understeer city
If I was you id try Rich's setup to the letter, it allways looks good

[Richard Lowe]

I'll have to put the final 'magic' setup up in the setups thread, it's almost as the Bury setup but with a few tweaks here and there that make it more consistent.

You also said you only had 3 washers under the rear camber link, try to get some longer Losi Ti ballstuds and get 4 under there, it makes a big difference!

Don't be scared of the one-way diff, if you have a go with either Lee's or my cars you will be amazed how consistent and balanced they are

Are you going to the indoor finals? If you are and still having trouble by then throw the car on my table on Sat and I'll give it a going over for the Sunday

:::EDIT::: - I've just had a look back at the Bury setup, copy it exactly but goto the outside hole on the front wishbone and medium wheelbase
Run the rear as wishbones level and the front slightly lower.

[Gaz_Stanton]

How about something like this to cure your handling probs Roger...
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/mako/...es/mako10.html

[matdodd]

Like what Gaz?

[RogerM]

Originally Posted by Gaz_Stanton

How about something like this to cure your handling probs Roger...
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/mako/...es/mako10.html

Still bar far the best handling car I have ever had the good fortune to own!!!! Don't think I would have held my F2 that last year with anything else!!!

She had so much front end grip you just didn't need the front one-way, ran quick even with permenant 4wd. You ran yours with a one-way diff didn't you (it's sitting on the desk in front of me as I type), must have been crazy!!!

Anyway back on topic!

[RogerM]

My memories of one-way diffs are;

R1 broken front driveshaft
R2 broken other front driveshaft
R3 broken transmission
R4 broken everything as you drive like a donkey as you can't get anything with just one round anyway.



On top of that there is the cost issue;

£60 for the one-way diff
£12.50 for the Shiny CVDs (so they stand some chance of lasting)
£5 for the springs to keep the outdrives in the one-way unit

£77.50 is a hell of a lot to throw at an 'upgrade' that may not suit me.

If the BJ4 does require a front one-way diff to make it work then I guess it's going to see big changes (or an Ebay listing).

Richard, thanks for the offer of help. If I am at the indoor finals with the BJ4 I'll take you up on that kind offer.

Time is running out however as I have to get a 2wd somewhere close before the start of teh season too.....

[delanobe]

Somebody has the article code of the long Losi ball studs (I need them for the 4 washers under the rear camber link).

When you say "short camber link", what does this mean exactly? Still learning!

Thanks!

[Lee]

roger, i only use the one way, i dont use the springs in it or the shiny CVD`s, my car is totally standard