Summer 2013 Season

[RogerM]

So long as people DO CONTINUE to turn up when they can and thus the heats can be seeded correctly around driver ability and not just a split on numbers (which hurts everybody at the end of the day) then all good.

My concern is that some, if not many, people will act as per fatpricey's example. I for one know that if I believe that it's going to be a poorly attended week I'll either go and see my mates at the pub or drive the 100 mile round trip to go to a buggy club.

I couldn't give a hoot about the championship, I'm unlikely to ever feature due to limitations on the weeks I can attend but I DO care about having some fun racing with people of similar ability / pace when I do go and if that suffers ......

[Simion Wabs]

Originally Posted by RCMadShane

I am baffled by the moaning here…

A complaint had been made about the way the championship was run…

So A complaint has led to a complete review of the current system?

The number of drivers who turned up week in week out and never complained were basically not considered then. By virtue of turning up they were saying "hey this racing is great, I like the current system, please keep it this way, don't change it, it works and is very enjoyable". But these people were discredited because they never stated they were very happy with the current system.

Not having a dig a Shane or the commitee, they are doing thier best, but come on, we can resolve this issue by reducing the number of counting chamionship heats required to "compete" in the championships.

All posters have made valid points (pro's and cons), but the overriding thing for me was that it wasn't broke in the first place!

Cheers

[Markygia]

I think a suggestion was made to alter the current format. So then the committee sought further info to see If this was a popular opinion. This was the vote.
It's probably a bit strong to say the others who were happy where overlooked as the vote was asking for their opinions. I can see there bring a sub issue if people didn't know about the vote. As then it would seem they've been overlooked. But I don't think that was anyone's intentions?!

A complaint or a suggestion (as long as reasonable) should bear grounds for the committee to look into it. Shows the committee will listen to its people.
But maybe a bigger vote is needed. Like maybe a talk before racing this evening? Followed by a show of hands? Again can't guarantee that'll everyone will be present but it should still give a percentage of votes. People who don't show could likely vote either way after all. So it's not favouritising either decision. Unless someone can think of another way that's gets to more people?

[Markygia]

Apologies for all the spelling and typo errors in that last post
Lol
I sometimes forget how to speak propa England. :-)

[Baldy1986]

As far as I can see here, it looks like a decision has been made, and there are people unhappy with it as they were unable to or did not vote.

So basically do we need to just get votes from the people that have not voted yet and add them to the total? In which case, we can bring some more forms and get them sorted. Or are people going to be silly and duplicate votes, etc?

If people have voted and are unhappy with the outcome, is that not just an accepted negative side to the voting process, and nothing really much that can be done about it? In the nicest way possible?

[J'MM'N]

Firstly let me say I'm not interested personally in the championship, I just want competitive racing with likewise cars and 50% of the Summer season that ain't going to happen. Wasn't it pointed out that on non championship weeks that it would have a mix of the rest. I know its difficult for the club and we do want to involve these drivers, but it will mean any Buggys, Pro 10, 12th, Micro and SC trucks that turn up, will be racing amongst your prized TC and GT12's on non competition nights

Secondly I was given a form by Steve at booking in, ticked the box and handed it straight back, but only because I was in the know from this thread. Looking at the numbers that filled the forms in, then either a large percentage didn't bother or just didn't know/understand. I know this poll isn't on the same level, but if as much time and effort was put across to the members, as had been shown for Lipo sacks, then perhaps members may of known what they were voting for. Meanwhile looking at the votes we could probably put 85% of the names to who and what they voted for.

So for me the thought of uncompetitive racing which could involve other classes of car on a fortnightly basis doesn't interest me and been the Summer months will probably affect me wanting to turn up just on alternate championship weeks.

Just hope it doesn't affect the dwindling numbers over the Summer season.

[Gunter]

So currently having all the other classes of car racing with the TC's WHILE ITS FOR THE CHAMPS is fair?? But having them mixed with gt12 on alternate weeks when it's not for champs is so outrageous?

This method would at least split it up

BUT anyways as I said in my last post Nothing other than TC's and GT12 will run at club inless they have enough cars to make a heat of there own. Which makes this argument redundant.

TBH I'm with mark I don't really care if we do it or not it make no difference to me, I still get to race on a Friday so wot ever happens I still get what I want.....racing!
Now there not any other cars in Anyone's race all is good from my point of view but for people who don't hav gt12 or a TC they will now have a problem with it.....
As mark said can't make everyone happy being on the committee is hard work I'm sure.

[J'MM'N]

Originally Posted by Baldy1986

As far as I can see here, it looks like a decision has been made, and there are people unhappy with it as they were unable to or did not vote.

So basically do we need to just get votes from the people that have not voted yet and add them to the total? In which case, we can bring some more forms and get them sorted. Or are people going to be silly and duplicate votes, etc?

If people have voted and are unhappy with the outcome, is that not just an accepted negative side to the voting process, and nothing really much that can be done about it? In the nicest way possible?

As my previous post, I think if a bit more information had been put across to the membership then people would of known what they were voting for. I only saw the forms on one race night and apart from what was written on the form, no other info was put forward to the members in way of conversation. And we all know what happens with forms when people don't know or have interest in the facts.

This vote was always going to be a contentious issue and people who voted for no change will think it unfair, while people who voted for change will feel it perfectly fair, so who is right

Summer season is nearly upon us, so its too late to rerun the vote. So the club may as well go with the decision and hopefully we'll have a better idea of what the club wants in 6 months time.

[Simion Wabs]

A complaint or a suggestion (as long as reasonable) should bear grounds for the committee to look into it. Shows the committee will listen to its people.

Mark, all your posts are measured and offer a balanced view, credit to you.

A commitee should consider the suggestion(s) between them before offering it to its members. In this instance we have one suggestion (or one complaint) and the commitee see fit to create a voting system for it based on one persons comment/request.

If a number of people had suggested the change/complained then the committee has an obligation to put forward the suggestions/ complaint. But surely not for one complaint??

On the voting form, IIRC we had Yes change/No keep as is/other tick boxes.

What should have been made clear is what other options we had to choose from.
We should have first voted for 1) Is change to current system needed? YES/NO

If Yes, following consultation, the following options have been proposed.
Which option would you like to change to?

1) number of qualifying championship heats reduced best 40 > best from 32 for e.g.
2) alternate weeks for championship between classes
3) different points scoring per final positions/qualifying
4) any of the above, all seem good
Any other comments you would like the committee to consider?

The change was voted in wthout any options being offered to its members

A famous misquote: You can have any colour you want as long as it is black!


Si

[J'MM'N]

Originally Posted by Gunter

So currently having all the other classes of car racing with the TC's WHILE ITS FOR THE CHAMPS is fair?? But having them mixed with gt12 on alternate weeks when it's not for champs is so outrageous?

This method would at least split it up

No one wants mixed races especially in Champs, but does this mean on non competitive nights we could end up with a heat of say six different classes in one race.

Originally Posted by Gunter

BUT anyways as I said in my last post Nothing other than TC's and GT12 will run at club inless they have enough cars to make a heat of there own. Which makes this argument redundant.

So if one member turns up with a non TC or GT12, he wont be able to race that week, or if a 12th and a buggy turn up, then we make a heat just for them

[grayslick]

I dont come to GERCC to collect points, I come to enjoy competitive fun racing, the championship is incidental. In my opinion running non championship events regularly is going to reduce the competitive environment and less people will turn up to these weeks, this is already obvious from comments in this thread.

Luckily for me there appears to be a club running GT12s on a Friday night another 20 minutes up the road.

I dont think you can really do anything as the die is cast now, people who voted to change the system because "the championship doesnt affect me" probably don't think this might have an effect on the number of racers turning up week to week, we'll see I guess. I personally didnt see any voting slips but that's my fault I suppose.

Just a final thought, why would I need to practice or try out different options on my supastox every other week? what am I trying out? different colour springs? or maybe try 32s rather than 35s on the rear?? I genuinely cant think of anything else. The car is dialled out of the box.

[Gunter]

Si,

I personally cant remember how many people complained about it but it was for sure more than one and over a few weeks so that’s why it was listen to and acted on.

All,
Fair point there should of been a do we want these new rules yes , no.

But then it’s easy to say after the event has past but there was a paper attached to the board where the results go up for weeks explaining everything and in them weeks anyone could of asked questions but no1 did.... so then the vote was started to see what’s people thoughts, voting slips were given out at race control when booking in and Shane/Ashley said over the microphone about the voting/ the new rules and to look on the board so what more could they have done? it was up to everyone to have a look so if people didn’t then it’s not the clubs fault. Blame the people who didn’t bother voting if you don’t like the result.

I am the first one to admit when someone gets on the microphone and starts chatting i turn off and don’t really listen but look at what’s happen from everyone not listening to what’s going on during the night. Lesson for everyone.

Also could not many people of voted because they are not really bothered what we do with the points along there is racing??? Because at the end the day innless you worried about points this shouldn't make a difference along people still turn up.(Must say i thought more people raced for the love of racing not just points so I didn’t see this apparent huge problem). If everyone carried on as norm the champ tables would look identical just half the number of points so what’s the massive problem I’m struggling to see it.

If the rules were nothing other than GT12 race week one and alternate what can physically be race week to week I’m sure we would have got a massive response!!!!

J'MM'N,

If I’m honest I don’t no anymore because this format was though of and created to solve a number of problems,
1,to many rounds counting so is an attendance race
2,Non champ counting cars in races effecting the results
3,Money- was though it might save people money as they could use harder foams/slicks on non-champ nights to lower costs slightly.

so this was something that was created to solve these above problems. If anyone new that’s i don’t no it wasn’t just one person with one problem that we were trying to fix.

So to answer your question I’m not sure anymore because I thought this method was a way of allowing the few 'random' class cars to still be able to race, but not get in the way of people fighting for points. So since last week’s announcement of 'innless there 4 cars of one class / a class they can suitably go together in otherwise you can’t race', I’m not sure what’s happening. Which is why earlier I said I’m not sure the new rules are going to help because one of the problems has been solved and just lowering the counting number of weeks fixes another one of the problems the new format was meant to solve/help with.

The situation has changed since last week’s announcement so what needs to be done has possibly changed.

[grayslick]

Gunter - We all love racing, I dont care about points, but I care about competitive racing, the new rules mean that unless you've got both a TC and a SS then every other week you are not racing, you are just practicing.

[Gunter]

grayslick and everyone for that matter,
Everyone dose still realise that the nights racing will still be exactly the same format against each other and the clock in 5 min race heats n everything not just free practice yeaaa?
Cos if i thought that was going to happen I wouldn’t be to impressed either and understand all your worries.

[Simion Wabs]

Hi Gunter,
appreciate the time taken to respond to all of the above

point 2 above states that with current system, non championship car race with car racing for championship points

I propose a simple common sense approach to this

Instead of a "pan car" racing in either TC or GT12 A final, drop them down into a lower final group. So in effect if they achieve 30 laps and Best in B final achieves 28 laps, the pan car should win hands down, not effecting the overall finishing position in that racing category. I fully understand that none championship cars can and have effected championship drivers races/points. Dropping them down a final is common sense to me.
Last week I was leading the B final and had an incident with a none chamionship car. But seriosuly so what! I was in the B final! This would go down as a bad week on the race calender.

Common sense should be the victor and is probably the easiest solution to this issue.

Don't let the none championship car race in A finals. Sorted

[grayslick]

Originally Posted by Gunter

grayslick and everyone for that matter,
Everyone dose still realise that the nights racing will still be exactly the same format against each other and the clock in 5 min race heats n everything not just free practice yeaaa?
Cos if i thought that was going to happen I wouldn’t be to impressed either and understand all your worries.

See that is the very thing that is baffling me why bother calling it a "non championship week" then?

[Gunter]

Yea i see what your saying put them in a race where they should be miles fastest ie, not impacting so much on the race....

But are the people in the B final going to be happy with a non-champ car effecting there race? If you were a regular in the B and having a close race with someone else in there you always race in the B having a close race and the pan car takes one of you out and spoils it......

no different weather its in the A, B, C final you normally race the same sort of prople and they become your compitition so you want to beat them whatever the final its in.

You see what i mean??? there a can of worms with every solution

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by grayslick

lol! ok if that is the case, why bother calling it a "non championship week"?

Because as i said in my massive post a min ago this format was though of when we were still going to allow other classes of cars to race (so not to send anyone away) and so the pan cars or whatever would go into the class that wasnt racing for points on that week so one week they go with TC and next week they go in with GT12.

But the goal posts have moved since last weeks annoucement soo im not sure what is going on/ if it solves anything

[J'MM'N]

Originally Posted by Simion Wabs

Last week I was leading the B final and had an incident with a none chamionship car. But seriosuly so what! I was in the B final! This would go down as a bad week on the race calender.

Similar event happened the week before, a 1/10th Pan car that was racing with the TC's all night, but come finals was put into the GT12 B final. It probably ruined most peoples final, although I don't blame the driver of the pan car as it needs a totally different driving style.

[Baldy Senior]

Just a quick clarification before I have to leave for racing and resume this discussion face to face.
The new race format will not allow mixed cars in any heat - whether it is a championship scoring week or not. We have had too many complaints / damage to allow this any more. The only exception to this will be with the agreement of everyone else who will be in that heat. There are only a few drivers who regularly race 1 off cars (there's a pan car and an 1/18 which immediately come to mind) and these have been told. We will still however allow any car to race (again within reason) as long as there are a minimum of 4 ie they can have a heat of their own.