LIPO pouch - best available

[mikeyscott]

What's best available?

After seeing a racer's injuries today, certainly reminds me how dangerous they are.

I have a lipo pouch but it needs replacing

[Neil Skull]

The new square shaped ORION ones are good!

[JonyNitro]

To tell you the truth, all makes in the Uk do the same thing so you be fine with any large one,

Named or no named still do the same

[CHEVY]

you could double up pouches

[Chris-S]

Is there any official testing that is done to certify that brand X's lipo pouch/case is capable of containing a lipo fire?

[AmiSMB]

I have not seen any official tests. I was sorry to hear and see what happened to Ed Kerry the night before the Rudebits GP where he has very bad burns on both hands as he tried to deal with a Lipo in a sack fire. Hope you get better soon Ed.

[trr061984]

As we are on the subject of Lipos, do people store them in any sort of special container in their house when not using them? Currently I stick the Lipo into 'store' mode and pop it into the Lipo sack, but not sure whether I need something a little sturdier to keep them in.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Originally Posted by trr061984

As we are on the subject of Lipos, do people store them in any sort of special container in their house when not using them? Currently I stick the Lipo into 'store' mode and pop it into the Lipo sack, but not sure whether I need something a little sturdier to keep them in.

At home I keep all my batteries in an ammo box The advantages:
1. It costs next to nothing - I got a nice one for 3 euros (2.5GBP).
2. It will protect the batteries from puncture, excessive pressure or damage to the wiring.
3. It's airtight, so if a fire does start at least it's cut off from a good supply of oxygen (though a Lithium fire may also require heat absorption to extinguish it properly).
4. It's watertight, so it's protected from changes in humidity or water leakage/spillage.
5. An ammo box looks so much cooler than a LiPo sack!

The only disadvantage I found is that I can't find one that has a compact size for storing 3-5 batteries - so I still have to put my batteries in a LiPo sack when I go to meetings.

[trr061984]

Originally Posted by Origineelreclamebord

At home I keep all my batteries in an ammo box The advantages:
1. They cost next to nothing - I got a nice one for 3 euros (2.5GBP).
2. They will protect the batteries from puncture, excessive pressure or damage to the wiring.
3. They are airtight, so if a fire does start at least it's cut off from a good supply of oxygen (though a Lithium fire may also require heat absorption to extinguish it properly).
4. The ammo box is watertight, so it's protected from changes in humidity or water leakage/spillage.

The only disadvantage I found is that I can't find one that has a compact size for storing 3-5 batteries - so I still have to put my batteries in a LiPo sack when I go to meetings.

Ammo box seems a good idea but my only concern would be having all my lipos in the one place. If one decides to go up, wouldn't it set the whole lot off in the one box? So I suppose I need multiple boxes for added safety?

[Origineelreclamebord]

Originally Posted by trr061984

Ammo box seems a good idea but my only concern would be having all my lipos in the one place. If one decides to go up, wouldn't it set the whole lot off in the one box? So I suppose I need multiple boxes for added safety?

To a degree: I currently store over 30000mAh in my Battery/Ammo Box, and I don't feel comfortable with it because there are a few iffy packs in there that need to be disposed of.

That said, if you know none of your packs have a questionable history I see no problem. To be fair, the majority of the packs that do catch fire are kept in use in spite of signs that they shouldn't (charging and discharging beyond the assigned limits, permanently swollen cells, temperature issues, damaged/split cases, wear/age, etc).

Many consumer products use Lithium-based batteries these days (amongst which LiPo) and there are not many horror stories of those products spontaneously combusting because they protect the battery from being put in those situations in the first place. RC Cars don't have as many (or sometimes any) of these safety devices, and when racing we're already using the battery technology to it's limit. In other words, it's wise to monitor the batteries' condition and performance, and any signs of problems with a battery should be taken seriously.

One important note by the way on the Ammo Box: I have put some insulation on the bottom to make sure the batteries or connectors don't touch metal. I know it's painted, but I don't want to run the risk that the box itself becomes the cause of a LiPo fire

[bigt]

+1 on the ammo box plus it makes a good step gettin in an out a the van charge in a bag an store in the box I've seen charger wires melt a few times

[GRIFF55]

I use mr33 one from tonisport , great bit of kit but I hope I never have need for its purpose

[h0m3sy]

I think this is something the BRCA should be looking at I feel. The mAh of Lipo's are getting bigger and bigger meaning we are charging at higher and higher amps. Some kind of testing should be done on these so called "safe" charging/storage bags. I doubt that any of the current sacks would be much use in the event of a fire.

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Neil Skull

The new square shaped ORION ones are good!

at least one section recommend the pouches over the box type!

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by AmiSMB

I have not seen any official tests. I was sorry to hear and see what happened to Ed Kerry the night before the Rudebits GP where he has very bad burns on both hands as he tried to deal with a Lipo in a sack fire. Hope you get better soon Ed.

I read that ed tried to get the pouch outside.

what should happen is a large bucket of sand (kiln dried preferably) should be available and it should ALL be dumped on the bag/fire etc and LEFT, one the fire is out then the pouch should be removed.
I witnessed this in operation at a 12th national and its is very effective, quick reactions and knowing what to do, resulted in very little damage.

ed was lucky as he was basically carrying a bomb. if the lipo is not fully in the pouch and the bag fully sealed there is no point in using a pouch, the first thing to fail is the Velcro if any heat gets directly onto it, sealed correctly the bag will vent as its designed to retaining the fire.

speedy recovery Ed!!

[SlowOne]

We have had two LiPo fires at our Nationals. As Safety Officer I have investigated both... as well as being next to both when they went up! Here is some advice from those experiences.

Check your charger. There are some on the market that default to the NiMh setting if they are shut off through loss of mains or battery power. Set up your charger charging a LiPo. Disconnect the main power supply. Disconnect the LiPo and reconnect the main power supply. See what settings come up on the charger. If it is NiMh then stick a ruddy great big label on the front of the charger that says "CHECK SETTINGS" so you don't forget every time you switch on.

LiPo containers. Make sure it is one that is woven from Kevlar. Wherever possible, check to see if the stitching is Kevlar too - most aren't. In the first fire the LiPos were in a 'box' and the fire came straight out between the gaps, melted the Velcro and the cotton stitching and the box sprung open. Cue hot debris spewing everywhere across the pit tables. All the box types I investigated were like this, so my recommendation is not to use a box-type LiPo sack at all.

The problem with boxes is the direct access the fire has to the stitching and the Velcro. The fire burns the stitching and Velcro away and the box flaps fall open.

In the second fire, the LiPo was just tucked into the pouch near the top and the Velcro was not fully closed. Again the fire melted the Velcro (not difficult, it is plastic!), the flap popped open and the fire chucked its hot debris across the pit table setting fire to a body shell. In this case the fire was directed off the flap and so at least went only in one direction.

Pouches don't seem to suffer from the stitching being burnt. On most the stitching 'clamps' the Kevlar pieces to each other closing off the stitching to the fire. In the second case there was no damage to the stitching.

When using a pouch, use short (preferably flush) connectors and push the LiPo as far to the bottom of the pouch as possible. Close the flap so that the Velcro is fully home and the gap at the top is the minimum you can get it. That way if the fire starts, the route for the hot debris is as tiny as possible, and it is prevented wherever possible from getting to the Velcro and melting it leading to the flap coming open.

As for dealing with a LiPo fire, sand is the best weapon by a large margin. Do not us water - the heat will liberate oxygen from the water making things worse - and do not use either foam or water extinguishers for the same reason.

Use dry sand, preferably kiln-dried sand, in a large metal bucket. Not wet sand, that water problem again. When alerted to a fire, dump enough sand onto the fire to smother it. Don't pay any attention at all to people's kit, the table or the pouch, just dump sand onto the pouch until the hot debris stops coming out. It takes quite a bit of sand to do that!

Once the fire is out (listen, it can be heard) leave it for 10 or 15 minutes. Disconnect the LiPo by unplugging the wires from the charger or cutting them. Then put all the sand, the LiPo and the pouch back into the bucket and take it outside. We left them for a couple of hours after which they were cool and we could dig out the charred remains and put them in the bin.

Never pick up a LiPo or its sack whilst it is ablaze, and not for at least 10 to 15 minutes afterwards. If the fire is in a car on a tarmac track, leave it to burn out or dump sand on it. If it is indoors, get sand on it ASAP and plenty of it. People always come first - get away from the fire. They are not replaceable whereas kit is always replaceable.

Home storage - in a pouch. As said above, providing they are good quality batteries and they are not fully charged accidents are not a common occurrence. The ammo box is also a good idea.

I have asked the Electric Board to discuss the issue of the Velcro and the stitching with the manufacturers and am awaiting a reply. At least three buckets of sand (two in the pit area and one near the rostrum for the track) are mandatory for 12th Nationals. Foam and water extinguishers are also required in case any of the solvents or cleaners we all use cause a fire. Smoking is not allowed in the pit area!

In summary - use a pouch not a box. Put the LiPo as far to the bottom of the pouch as possible and make sure the flap is closed fully down with a minimum gap for fire to access the Velcro. If anything happens get clear and dump sand on the fire until the hot debris no longer comes out. Once out, leave for 10 to 15 minutes, then carefully put all the sand and the LiPo/sack into the bucket and cover with more sand. Leave for a couple of hours before removing the charred remains, or dump the whole bucket of sand with the bits into a metal bin for collection.

I am very sorry to hear someone got hurt and wish them a speedy recovery. If you have any questions, please ask here.

Peter Winton
Safety Officer - BRCA 12th Section

[CC44]

I keep mine in golden syrup tins when not in use.

cheap, easily available and her indoors like's eating the contents.

Winner all round

[SlowOne]

Originally Posted by CC44

I keep mine in golden syrup tins when not in use.

cheap, easily available and her indoors like's eating the contents.

Winner all round

Good call. Metal container, proper lid that can't come off and plenty to enjoy to get the goods!!

[CHEVY]

i was thinking one off those fire safes for home storage

[cutting42]

This thread has made me buy an ammo box.

Thanks for all the good advice