When is a 2wd not a 2wd

[Cockerill]

Personally (My View), I don't see how a manufacturer can possibly stop this happening...

The drivers are simply tuning their cars to suit the track conditions, which in this case happened to be 100% high grip... No different to converting rear motor to mid motor cars a few years ago. The drivers (many who aren't fully supported so pay to race) are using production cars, with production parts. How can any manufacturer argue against this?

2wd's are designed for a variety of conditions, and Stotfold better suited a 2wd/4wd.

I don't think it's a problem with the rules either... They call on a 2wd car, they were 2wd. Maybe their use goes against the 'spirit' and now we're seeing this we (we're all collectively the BRCA) have to decided whether to implement a rule to fix 2wds to what we believe the 'spirit' is.

[Kelk]

I agree with a few of the most recent posts and I am running 2/4wd. The interesting point to me is the sense of the spirit of the racing.

This is just people using what they have to hand and making the best of it. If we say that it should be banned then what other changes have not been banned? Are brushless motors not in the spirit of it compared to brushed? Lipos aren't NiCads. The hobby moves on so must the spirit. Otherwise we would still be driving RC10s (the classic) and Cats / super dog fighters of 20+ years ago

If there can be seen to be no performance gain across the board but some individuals driving style prefers a 4wd with the front diff, drive shafts and gubbins removed then why not? Otherwise you would have to limit all 'home grown' development

[Kelk]

Sorry - another thought. If people say its not what the manufacturer intended by taking something away from what they made surely something as simple as cutting a row of spikes from a tyre should be stopped

[jasonrcb]

As 4wd cars were used in 2wd that meant they passed scrutineering which surely means they were legal 2wd,seeing as they passed then i cant see how you can now start changing rules just cos it didnt seem in the spirit of racing.
Now after reading this thread,personally my next 2wd meeting thats high grip i will be running my 511 with the front shafts removed as im now curious to see how it performs compared to my std mid motor car

[Martin Wallace]

The horse bolted when you allowed mid-motor 2WD cars. If you'd stepped in as a Section at that point and said that a 2WD car must have the longitudinal axis of the motor behind, and parallel with, the longitudinal axis of the rear axle, this would not now be a problem.

100% nail on the head for me. i always remember a 2wd car with the motor hanging its arse out of the back and this is how a 2wd should remain for .

when it moved to this mid motor its ruined the fun of 2wd for me. i would like to see rear motor only in a 2wd despite the mid motor 2wd being quicker.

[Chalkie]

Hmmm, I think the problem is the tracks we race on rather than a problem with the rules, this only works because of the high grip levels of some of the current 100% astro tracks, reduce the grip levels and things swing back in favour of traditional 2wd cars pretty quickly.
IMO trying to bring in rules about the layout of cars will create nothing but problems checking them and loopholes to exploit.

[TARTMAN]

simply.

2WD is 2 wheels driven under power.

4WD is all 4 wheels driven under power.

simple.

2 classes. what's the issue.

its just some people not liking being beaten by a new car or a modified car

in "MODIFIED" classes, that we all race in now, in 2 classes, 2wd and 4wd, then modified is just that, a modification to make the car better, faster and handle, or not as the case maybe. As I mentioned regarding the conversions of a 4wd like the DB1, that's a 4wd rear end. so that would have to be included in the rule change, and as I mentioned its a modified class so WHY is there a problem with 4wd/2wd hybrids? oh yeah, there ISN'T a problem apart from those that seem to want to make a problem.

Its all a load of rubbish to try and make the rules change to suit one or another when there is no issues now apart from opinion.

My XB4 works great in 4wd and 2wd, why is it wrong? Its just a modified car that meets all the rules in place and its as simple as that.

In MY Opinion.


Its all personal choice at the end of the day. Pure and simple.

[FrogPrince82]

Originally Posted by Mossy

I made the A Final at Stotfold with my Sv2 but I admit I tried my k1 without any driveshafts in the final round of qualifying. Not because I wanted to - as many of you who know me know I am dead against 4wd in the 2wd class - but because my main competitors were trying it so I had to in case it was quicker. I hated it. Car felt just wrong to drive so I went back to my sv2 and was more than competitive in the finals (I did most of the second leg in the middle of 3 converted 4wds).

I think part of the issue is as per above (not being critical of you personally, more a general point) in that multiple cars are able to be used on race day by the same driver.

RC Racing is the only form of racing I've been involved in where I have, for arguement's sake, 5 races at a meeting and I can use 5 different cars, 1 for each race!

Everywhere else I could make changes to components, but the actual chassis/engine has to remain the same once I've completed scrutineering (with possible dispensation for extenuating circumstances).

Maybe if you had to stick to the same car for the whole meeting, we wouldn't see people use a 2wd specific for 2 qualifiers, then a 4wd hybrid for another 2, then whichever they prefered in the final. You should enter a car for the meeting and stick with it. Having 2,3,4 different cars already to go in different configurations for different conditions isn't talent, it's cash/ manufacture backing.

[KooBee]

Simply use a rule which prevents chassis change if it isn't broken, and if it is, it must be replaced with the same model chassis. This would prevent at least the most radical "different car for each heat" sort of thing... Or at least they would have to fit all the different layouts on the same chassis.

Similar rule is used at the worlds.

[jimmy]

Apart from the fact it's hard to tell a 2 and 4wd car apart since they both look the same. The TM2 that's the current rage is a 4WD car - if they release it as-is, the Xray 2WD is a 4WD car. Both man handled into a 2WD buggy

2WD cars should have motors sticking out the REAR. That should be the distinction.You shouldn't have 2WD cars that become more and more like a 4WD buggy in layout - and then cry because a 4WD buggy with the front drive taken away is similar in speed. This is called being on crack.

[Mike2222]

Lets not forget that 2wd cars were becoming 4wd since the days of the original rc10, thanks to an aftermarket conversion. I dont think they were banned.

[jimmy]

There should be a panel of judges with a wildwilly figure - working out if he could possibly fit in some of these modern cab forward designs, and if not, ban them.

[wrighty]

Omg i carnt beleave this thread it reminds me of a argument at a regional in the 90s when william mitchem turned up with a couger 2 which the transmission had been turned to make it mid motor......2 rear wheels driven is 2wd however i beleave if you where to have 2 front wheels driven you would be classed as 4wd

[Dudders]

Originally Posted by mark christopher

so assuming sunday was dry, did anyone run 2wd in the 4wd meeting either 2wd or 2wd 4x4? and make the A or win, to back up your claim?

I think 5 x 4wd made the 2wd A final. But I might be wrong on those numbers.

[FrogPrince82]

Originally Posted by wrighty

Omg i carnt beleave this thread it reminds me of a argument at a regional in the 90s when william mitchem turned up with a couger 2 which the transmission had been turned to make it mid motor......2 rear wheels driven is 2wd however i beleave if you where to have 2 front wheels driven you would be classed as 4wd

Now that one is just plain daft and unfair!

Surely if we can have cars with 2wd fronts and 4wd rears in the 2wd class, why can't we have cars that have 4wd fronts and 2wd rears too???

Only seems fair, especially as it's a "modified" racing catagory. That would spice things up a bit for the manufacturers, we would all need 2 dedicated 2wd cars (1 rear motor, 1 mid motor) plus a dedicated 4wd car, aswell as a RWD hybrid and a FWD hybrid! The hybrid can be interchangable so that normal people who pay for their cars can only have to fork out for 1 hybrid, this could also go for the 2 2wd cars, like Durango, Yokomo and Kyosho do.

That would leave the Pros with needing at least 5 specific cars per meeting and the rest of us mortal amateurs with 3

[Dudders]

Or a return to Stock Racing, as the kit comes out the box with no weight, mods or hop ups....

Can't see the issue, hobby is evolving....

[mark christopher]

Originally Posted by Dudders

I think 5 x 4wd made the 2wd A final. But I might be wrong on those numbers.

thats NOT what i asked, the poster said 2wd was quicker in the dry, so i asked how many 2wd cars made the 4 wheel drive A final on sunday.

[jimmy]

I didn't try a 2WD - but people I spoke to said it was just EASIER to drive.

[kartstuffer]

Create a new class Three classes
1 - 2 wheel drive. Motor behind rear driveline.
2 - 2 wheel drive open ( any configureation as long as only 2 driven wheels).
3 - 4 wheel drive only.

[freddie]

I think we need to look at the surfaces we race on instead of complaining about what other people have an haven't got car wise !!!!
Some of the clubs / tracks we all compete at are just one surface AstroTurf !!!! Why not make them multi surface ?
I know we have weather issues in this country but multi surface tracks work in 1/8th in this country dirt , astro , clay and block paving an so on
It seems 1/10 has become lazy with all astro tracks I think it needs to be changed an mixed up a bit an maybe we will see the 2wd rear motor cars make a come back !!

Just my opinion !!!