Questions questions...

[Skye]

These questions, or ones very similar have probably been asked before so I apologise in advance but I was just hoping to get some advice and opinions that are all in one place and current.

If I go back to the beginning, about 4 or 5 years ago I bought a second hand Xray XB8 and loved it, but to be honest I was ignorant to what was required. I had never owned a nitro before, and with it coming as a rolling chassis I didn't have a clue how it went together. The shop I bought it from also fitted a second hand engine, pipe and radio gear for me so it was effectively a ready to run by the time I got my hands on it.

This was great as someone who just wanted to pick it up and play, but I never considered the maintenance or preparation side of things at all. When I wanted a play, I filled her up and ragged it around the field/car park/garden and when it was done I put it back in the box until next time. Knowing what I know now from my experience with Electric 1/10 buggies I know this was shameful behaviour, but I didn't know any better at the time.

I have been enjoying my racing of the 1/10 buggies for the last 9 months since I took up racing properly, but I still feel like there is unfinished business with 1/8 nitro and almost like I need to make amends for my shocking lack of respect to my XB8 which was a fantastic car and deserved better.

So, enough of the waffle…. What I need to know is whether I can A, afford it and B, do I have enough knowledge to maintain the car.

Relating to the cost, how much typically does it cost to buy a kit from new and then buy everything necessary to have it up and running. I sold the XB8 last year and (perhaps foolishly) just offloaded everything. So the starter box, glow plug, radio gear, everything went which means I now would have to start from scratch. I know the cost is what you make it to a degree, but I would want kit good enough first time rather than buying cheap and then needing/wanting to upgrade everything a few weeks or months down the line. What car do people suggest, and also what options on everything else that is needed to run it.

The second element to the cost is the maintenance and general spend required to keep it running. Currently I only spend (with the exception of big one off spends like new ESC or luxuries like hop ups which are obviously optional) my monthly running costs for 1/10 electric are little more a couple of sets of tires/inserts/wheels per month so we are talking about £100 per month tops.

What would I need to spend per month on maintaining a 1/8 to race standard. How often are new tires required and how much does it cost to replace a set of tires/wheels/inserts? How long does an engine last before it needs replacing, are the any other parts that are subjected to a lot of wear that need regular replacements purchasing? If so, what are they and what do they typically cost?

This moves us on nicely to the second element of my questioning, the maintenance. When I started racing 1/10 electric last summer I knew zero about set up, maintenance and repair of my car. I now know a little, but it is only a little. Fortunately with brushless motors and LiPo power I don't need to know much about general maintenance. The car is kept clean and free running with strip downs, cleaning, lubrication and things like diff and shock rebuilds. That is probably as far as my car maintenance extends currently.

Is there a lot more maintenance required for nitro, and what sort of thing is it? Is it something that a complete novice can carry out for themselves, or will I be left swearing and cursing as I pull my hair out trying to work out what the hell I should doing? How long (again typically) do you need to spend per week on maintenance and preparation. Assuming nothing is broken, just general wear and tear, how much time do you spend on your cars?

I did very nearly buy a HPI trophy RTR at the weekend, but thought better of it as if I get a nitro again I want it to be more than just for bashing. With that in mind, what cars would people recommend? I don't know much at all about the merits of the various cars on offer. Obviously I am aware of the XRay cars (not sure on the appearance of the XB9) as well as the Losi 8 and the JQ car, but I don't know many of the other options and also don't know how good or bad the ones I mentioned are.

I appreciate that this is a lot of questions and that it has probably all been asked before, but I am just trying get all the information together in one place so I can make a decision on whether to dip my toe back into the waters of 1/8 nitro or whether to stick with my 1/10 electric only.

Thanks in advance!

[eyeayen]

There is another choice Richard, if you went 8th Electric it would be possible to use saddle packs from your existing tenth cars. There would still be outlay of new chassis, new 8th sized motor and ESC to power it all.

The outlay for 8th electric is initially expensive but as you've mentioned above it doesn't need the maintenance of a nitro engine. You don't have outlay for fuel or filters or that sort of thing. No starter box is needed either so it sort of balances out to a degree.

You're only real outlay per meeting is going to be tires which are about £15-£18 for 2, so that's already bumped the price of what you spend on tenth up. It would also depend on how often you're running it, on what surface and how competitive you want to be.

Get along to your local 8th track and have an ask around. See what people are using, how much they're spending a month.

If you're looking at getting going the Losi RTR 8ight buggy comes with everything, good radio, decent enough buggy to get you going although you could upgrade the servo's. You could probably sell the radio on as it's a decent Spektrum unit which would cover costs for new servo's.

If you're looking at buying it all individually I'd say you could spend between £800 and a £1000 easy, just to get you going. Hope that's of some help.

[Skye]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your thoughts. I had looked at 1/8 electric and whilst there is nothing wrong with it I can’t help but feel that if I get into 1/8 then it has to be nitro. I dont know why, I just prefer it.

Speaking of my local tracks, do you know of any that are in the Northamptonshire/Midlands area? I have heard of Nene Valley, but don't know much about them to be honest to know how active they are and whether they are serious racers or more casual? Although I am not the most skilled driver in the world, I like the competition of serious racing.

With 1/8 tires, I’m assuming they are the same as 1/10 in that you also need to purchase wheels and inserts separately? Was the £15-18 for the tires only? How often do tires need replacing on 1/8, is it every meeting or more/less frequent than that?

I did look at the Losi 8 RTR and was shocked at how cheap it was. Considering the decent Spektrum Tx included, it looks like a steal. Is it like some of the RTR’s you get in the 1/10 electric world though where quality parts are substuituted for cheaper alternatives that need upgrading, or is the chassis, shocks, shock towers etc identical to those in the kit?

To be honest, if the Losi 8 RTR was up to the standard (in terms of parts quality) then I would be seriously tempted. Otherwise I would still be ok with buying things individually as the initial outlay wouldn't be beyond me (my DEX210 cost me £700+ as I bought new ESC, batteries etc) but I wouldn't want to be spending several hundred pounds month on month just replacing worn parts.

[Si2008]

Hi Skye,

I have been in a very similar position to you recently.

I used to race 10th buggies and have just started Rallycross. So far it has cost me around 1400 quid to get set-up from scratch. I had nothing.

I got a Losi 8 EU kit (I've always driven Losi cars) Futaba mid range 2.4 radio gear, Argus engine, Savox Servos, plus all power supplies, batteries, 12 volt also, 2 gallons of Byron fuel, couple of sets of pre-mounted tyres, Charger, glow starter, engine heater, tool box, few tools, cleaning fluid, starter box and battery and a few other bits and pieces.

A fairly expensive outlay but I'm hoping it will see me in good stead for a while.

I will probably only race twice a month as I have other racing commitments with Motocross and Downhill MTbing so i don't intend my racing costs to be much to be honest. I'm told that Astro turf tracks are fairly easy on tyres so I'll happily buy cheap pre-used tyres if need be.

I think to get up and running with decent kit you are looking at the 1200 to 1500 mark realistically. But there are ways to go cheaper. I had the option of buying an almost ready to go set-up that was only a few months old for 850 quid which included everything I needed plus a spare roller but I prefer to start from scratch with new stuff.

Good luck whatever you choose to do.

[Si2008]

Oh, in relation to engine set-up etc. I think a lot of racers get a bit carried away with it and can be guilty of scaring people into thinking it's F1. I knew nothing about Nitro engines but have learnt a fair amount in a few days. Thankfully I have worked with Motocross bike engine for my whole life so understand the mechanics of jetting etc which is essentially the same with a nitro engine.

But basically a nitro engine is simple and requires small adjustments to get it right. It's not the black art many would have you think, it's just frustrating when you are breaking everything in and trying to get it right. Just don't let others scare you into thinking you need a degree in engine tuning to get a good set-up. You don't.

[leestokey]

Losi 8 rtr is a very good starting place all in one package and parts are cheap, the losi 350 engine if looked after will last ages just keep the temps right and keep it clean and after run oil after use most 8th scale plastics will wear out same as bearings will need to be replaced, alot of of it boils down to how good a driver you are and if you had bad crashes Ive ran a losi 8 for a year just bashing on an astro track and just replaced shock bottoms plastic and steering arm after buying shock oils my main expense is fuel as a gallon is 30quid and the occasional glow plug monthly I spend about 20 - 30 but thats just bashing plus im building up my tool collection.

[eyeayen]

The price I gave for the tires was pre mounted. You need quite a few different sets though to make sure you're going to have the right ones for the conditions. Also it depends what you're running on and how aggressively you drive. Not familiar with tracks in that area. Max Bashing has a whole section on tracks around the country. If you're really looking into Nitro you could maybe look on there too ?

As you have a radio already I'd say you could get going for £1000. If you're not sure about it all though you could buy a used chassis, I'd try and get a brand new engine but the rest of it you can pick up 2nd hand. It might be a better way of seeing if you like it, all the fun with less spend ?

[Si2008]

Lots of tracks nearby. I'm in Northants too.

Coventry only 40 mins way.
Nene valley,
NDOR,
Frankley,

[Skye]

XB808 (2011) £349.99

Novarossi EFRA9853 Pipe/Manifold £49.99

Novarossi .21 P5XLT £199.99 OR Picco BOOST .21 £189.99 (how do you select what engine?)

Fastrax Tru Start Starter Box £62.72

Ripmax 3600mAh Glow Plug & Charger £18.49

Byron 30% fuel 1 Gallon £28.99

HPI Plazma 7.2V 2400mAh Stick Batteries (for starter box?) £11.99 x 2

LRP Lipo RX Pack 7.4V 1700mAh £22.60

Savox SC-1268MG Servo £77.79 x 2

All of the above comes to about £910.

Now I dont know what else I would need to add to the above, or even if it would all go together/be suitable for what I need?

I have just gone through a well know online retailer just to get a feel for the pricing of everything.

If I have chosen some garbage, or a bunch of parts that wont work together, or missed essentials off the list please let me know so I can add/amend my list.

This is by no means a final shopping list, I have just tried to go through and avoid the cheapest of the cheap but also avoided the very expensive (engines circa £400!!!!) to formulate some kind of rough list for you guys to analyse and tell me how stupid I have been.....

[Skye]

Thanks for all the replies guys, hadnt refreshed my screen all afternoon so only just seen your posts.

Ian, second hand would definately be an option. There doesnt seem to be so many around though as 1/10 electric. Certainly not on oOple anyway. Also with the tyres being premounted then thats not so bad. I have never owned any Acetone so I have always bought new wheels/inserts/tires for my 1/10 so it was always around the £30 mark for a full set.

Si, its good to know its not as scary as it sounds. And a few tracks close by as well is a bonus! Where do you race?

Lee, I do keep looking at the Losi 8 RTR, at less than £400 on the track it is hard to knock it. Second hand would struggle to beat that even!

[Si2008]

I'm a member at Coventry because I can use the track whenever want to practice. It's astro turf too so all weather. 30 quid for the year.

I'd stear clear of RTR's. You'll only end up replacing stuff plus I'm a firm believer that if you build the kit you know exactly what to do when things break or need changing.

[eyeayen]

The RTR is good to get you going for the price but depending how good your driving is and how you want to compete you can upgrade a lot of things it. People upgrade the chassis to the EU and also the shocks, essentially though, to get you going you don't really need this, not until you've learnt how the 8th cars drive and can get yourself around the track. One of those "to finish first, first you must finish" things. If you upgraded the Servo's it would do you a season, if you were really hard on it or had unfortunate accidents you might need to replace stuff but that could happen with a cheap or expensive car, it's racing after all.

I'd say an Argus A52 with JP4H pipe combo for about £170 is a good bet for engine and pipe.

You can get a Gel battery for the starter box, much cheaper or use a lipo.

You can get receiver batteries cheaper than that too. I'd recommend a LIFE one though, I've seen people blowing servo's with the lipo's rx packs

On top of that look at your tools, you will need a plug spanner for removing / replacing your glow plugs. These can be bought on a combo wrench that also has the wheel but spanner on it.
Additionally you'll need
Glow Plugs
Glow Starter + Charger
After Run Oil
Fuel Bottle
Air filters / Air Filter Oil
Diff Oils
Shock Oils
Any specific tools depending on what car you buy.

I love this forum but it is mainly 10th and you will find more on Max Bashing. Have a look, the season is starting and there are deals to be had with people changing chassis's.

Losi are great, good cars, good readily available spares.
Associated again, great back up.
Agama - Fantastic - but I would say that as I own one.
JQ - going well.
Mugen - Super strong race pedigree.
Kyosho - winning championships for years.

Let us know how you get on.

[Gregors]

i think the xray 808 could be bad choice new as the xb9 has just come out

[Skye]

£30 for the year isn't bad! Have you been to Neme Valley, what's it like there?

You have both inadvertently confirmed my one fear with RTR. I don't like the idea of having to upgrade too much to make it up to spec. I would rather buy the real thing and grow into the car than buy the RTR and then upgrade shocks, chassis etc.

The list of bits needed is massive. If/when I buy I am definately going to need expert advice as there is no way I'd know everything to get!

Thanks for the car summary Ian, I like the look of the Agamas but where do you buy spares from? The usual shops I know from 1/10 seem to have the likes of X-ray, AE, Losi etc, but not so much on the likes of Agama or Mugen etc.

Gregors, your point about the XB9 is a valid one, but as a novice to the 1/8 scene then I would have though the 808 would be fine as a starting point...?

[hotrodchris]

Originally Posted by Skye

XB808 (2011) £349.99

Novarossi EFRA9853 Pipe/Manifold £49.99

Novarossi .21 P5XLT £199.99 OR Picco BOOST .21 £189.99 (how do you select what engine?)

Fastrax Tru Start Starter Box £62.72

Ripmax 3600mAh Glow Plug & Charger £18.49

Byron 30% fuel 1 Gallon £28.99

HPI Plazma 7.2V 2400mAh Stick Batteries (for starter box?) £11.99 x 2

LRP Lipo RX Pack 7.4V 1700mAh £22.60

Savox SC-1268MG Servo £77.79 x 2

All of the above comes to about £910.

Now I dont know what else I would need to add to the above, or even if it would all go together/be suitable for what I need?

I have just gone through a well know online retailer just to get a feel for the pricing of everything.

If I have chosen some garbage, or a bunch of parts that wont work together, or missed essentials off the list please let me know so I can add/amend my list.

This is by no means a final shopping list, I have just tried to go through and avoid the cheapest of the cheap but also avoided the very expensive (engines circa £400!!!!) to formulate some kind of rough list for you guys to analyse and tell me how stupid I have been.....

You don't want to be looking at 30% fuel make it 25% as this is the highest spec you can legally run on the continent so most firms do not make the 30 any more and shortly it will be checked at Nat meets in this country i believe.

[thevmister]

Mate,
I believe their is a load of good second hand buggies out their with everyting you need to get started, you just got to seek them out i would recomend going to tracks as a lot of people are unloading old buggies after 6 or 7 races cos they didnt meet their expections!!!! , and usually racers look after them better ie shock oils , diff oils air filters after run oil, believe me their is a lot of choice out their , i just bought a xray for 120 quid 2011 and its brill, also a mate of mine got a losi 2.0 eu unbuilt kit , 3 race old losi 2.0 eu , 3 engines picco go and os more spares again to build another buggy 20 set of tyres , and a starter box plugs for 550 quid,
I actually got a vid of us running them yesterday (shameless plug ) i will post it in another thread if u want just a comparison of a xray and losi cos people are mentioning them here

[eyeayen]

Agama spares can be had from - Model Cars Reading, Herts RC, CT Modelshop along with many others, and they attend a lot of events so good track side support too.

[Skye]

Thanks Chris, I didn't know that!

V, post your vid in this thread if you want mate!

Thanks Ian, knowing where to get spares and repairs helps with the decision making process!

[thevmister]

both are second hand machines enjoy mine is the xray it is pink


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK5tfHdhKyc

[Skye]

Thanks mate, watching vids like that just makes me want one more!