rumours rumours - Page 5

SHY · #81 07-04-2008

Then I'll bend my head in shame

Never checked myself before, but several experienced guys claimed this, both for IFMAR and ROAR.

See previous discussion:
http://www.one-ten-rcforums.com/4wdr...ic.php?id=1333

Quote from Chazz (X-Factory): "There's an IFMAR requirement that you have 6 cells, so at the Worlds everybody just put another solder tab on the 5th one."

Quote from SupahDave: "You have to run 6 Cells per ROAR rules."

Might this have been changed for 2008 then? In any case it's the rules now, so I apologize!

Has anyone heard anything as to IFMAR allowing LiPo?

Edit: More on ROAR rules:

It actually looks like the americans didn't read their rules properly. In the ROAR Rules 8.3.1.12 it says "Unless a lower number is specified in the class requirements, a maximum of six NiMH NiCad and 2 Lithium type cells is permitted in any vehicle motor power pack used in ROAR-sanctioned competition."

ROAR rule book: http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/..._Rule_Book.pdf

8.10.1.3 for 1:10 OR also specifies this: "Six cells maximum"

See 8.3.2 for LiPo rules:
-there are some "UN" criteria (transport safety regulations)
-ROAR testing & approval (drop, overcharge, short circuit)
-must be hardcased from ABS plastic or similar material
-case halves "sealed" with ROAR approval label (you are not allowed to open it)
-2 cells in series
-3,7 V pr. cell

Charging rules (ROAR):
-charger with LiPo program (of course)
-must have LiPo inside "LiPo Sack" (or similar) when charging (to mitigate fire)
-max 1C charge rate

Note! There's nothing to gain performance wise from charging LiPos at a higher rate than 1C!!! You ONLY save time, and it may be damaged!

To my surprise they may be damaged by being stored fully charged for more than a month. It's advised to store them 1/2 full...

The ROAR rules are VERY detailed and would be a very good place for EFRA to take their initial rules from!

This is the list of approved LiPo batteries:
http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/lipobattery.php

Fabs · #82 07-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by elvo

No they don't.

4.2.8 Cars will be driven by a maximum of 6 cells and 7.2 volts maximum. For 1/12 the

numbers of cells is limited to 4.

From http://www.ifmar.org/pdf/ifmar_wc_electric_track.pdf

These are the rules for 12th and TC nothing to do with off road...

elvo · #83 07-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabs

These are the rules for 12th and TC nothing to do with off road...

OK: http://www.ifmar.org/pdf/ifmar_wc_el...froad_2007.pdf

4.3.8 Cars will be driven by a maximum of six (6) cells and 7.2 volts maximum.

Better?

Richard Lowe · #84 08-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mole2k

I dont really see why you would go to 5 cells would give you more drivablity and if you wanted more power you could just drop a wind. If you added a wind on 6 cells would it not have a very similar effect and the car only goes as quick as the thumbs make it.

Dropping to 5 cells or going up a wind will make the car slower, but not in the same way

Losing a cell reduces punch, but not so much top speed. Going to a slower motor will usually reduce top speed more than torque. I've been experimenting with 5 cells + 5.5 in 2wd over the winter and really like it. In 2wd depending on the surface sometimes the car actually accelerates faster with 5 cells due to the reduced weight and not lighting up the tires

Chrislong · #85 08-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

Dropping to 5 cells or going up a wind will make the car slower, but not in the same way

Losing a cell reduces punch, but not so much top speed. Going to a slower motor will usually reduce top speed more than torque. I've been experimenting with 5 cells + 5.5 in 2wd over the winter and really like it. In 2wd depending on the surface sometimes the car actually accelerates faster with 5 cells due to the reduced weight and not lighting up the tires

This is true, same as when a few run 5 cell at Tiverton etc.. But we should be allowed to choose to run 5 cell rather than it being imposed as a maximum... this choice then adds to the fun of setting up the cars.

rather than the frustration of trying to squeeze every smidge of power when the power of 6 cells is required and we're limited to 5.

Lee · #86 08-04-2008

Doesn`t it have to be proposed and then seconded by someone in order for it to be voted on?

If so...

Does anyone know of anybody who plans to propose it and what is there reasons behind it?

mole2k · #87 08-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lowe

Dropping to 5 cells or going up a wind will make the car slower, but not in the same way

Losing a cell reduces punch, but not so much top speed. Going to a slower motor will usually reduce top speed more than torque. I've been experimenting with 5 cells + 5.5 in 2wd over the winter and really like it. In 2wd depending on the surface sometimes the car actually accelerates faster with 5 cells due to the reduced weight and not lighting up the tires

Thanks for clearing that up, I've never driven 5 cells before as my local club run 19t/10.5t so I cant drop a cell and run a quicker motor.

terry.sc · #88 08-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Doesn`t it have to be proposed and then seconded by someone in order for it to be voted on?

Yes, but no one seems to have noticed this has been pointed out to them earlier

It isn't going to happen.

mark christopher · #89 08-04-2008

some one on the present comitee could do it
some one who does not like lipo could do it to rule them out
you can not say it wont happen it takes one proposer and one seconder, its then down to the floor and if a good arguement is made it could end up like TC, with a 19 turn brushless class and one motor too choose from! ie not to everyone liking

SHY · #90 09-04-2008

Guys, let's get down to business!

BRCA won't propose to limit to 5 cells right?

We won't know if any other country proposes this to the EFRA AGM until a few weeks before AGM in november. If someone does it's important that the BRCA representatives are fully informed about the issue and vote no.

Now, will BRCA propose to allow LiPo or not?

Lee · #91 09-04-2008

I think its 50/50 for the lipo proposal, i think there are a lot of people against it, manufactures dont want it as profits will drop as less cells will be bought and they last longer etc etc

But then you have those who want to use them for the sake of easiness. etc etc

The brca do seem to have the final say though on stuff like this, im sure we would of liked to use last years cells, but obviously the brca have stepped in on that one.

Im neither for or against lipo, i havent tried it so i cant comment.

mark christopher · #92 09-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHY

Guys, let's get down to business!

BRCA won't propose to limit to 5 cells right?

We won't know if any other country proposes this to the EFRA AGM until a few weeks before AGM in november. If someone does it's important that the BRCA representatives are fully informed about the issue and vote no.

Now, will BRCA propose to allow LiPo or not?

the BRCA do NOT propose anyhting in a section, the proposal comes from its members, if i want to propose 5 cell i can if i want to propose we run 19 turn spec motors i can, if i want to propose we ban wings i can, brca can not stop me, nor can they say you are doing this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I think its 50/50 for the lipo proposal, i think there are a lot of people against it, manufactures dont want it as profits will drop as less cells will be bought and they last longer etc etc

But then you have those who want to use them for the sake of easiness. etc etc

The brca do seem to have the final say though on stuff like this, im sure we would of liked to use last years cells, but obviously the brca have stepped in on that one.

Im neither for or against lipo, i havent tried it so i cant comment.

the old cells do not fit the dimensional rules, thats why there not allowed at sanctioned meetings, the 'EB" enforced this, the off road sectio choose to follow the EB rules/guide lines on behalf of the section voting too do so
the BRCA is its members, there are no paid permanent brca officials who are god (just some unpaid ones lol)

SHY · #93 09-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark christopher

the BRCA do NOT propose anyhting in a section, the proposal comes from its members, if i want to propose 5 cell i can if i want to propose we run 19 turn spec motors i can, if i want to propose we ban wings i can, brca can not stop me, nor can they say you are doing this!

I've been to a few EFRA AGMs, so I know how it works.

Still, it's often the same people we're talking about. You can be a driver, member of a club's board, and BRCA representative. Even an EFRA representative. If not, just communicate.

Our national asscociation DOES have the authority to make rule changes and proposals themselves, but also here it normally comes via a club.

Now then, has or will any UK club propose this via BRCA for the EFRA AGM?

(There's no need to keep this secret)

Better?

Lee · #94 09-04-2008

I know the brca doesn`t propose anything but i know brca officials do propose things.

I also know why last years cells are now banned and i am nott saying its wrong, but i think that cells are only going to get more dangerous in the future, if they are regulated to a certain size the only way to increase performance is make the cell walls thinner

Lipo is looking good all of a sudden

SHY · #95 09-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I know the brca doesn`t propose anything but i know brca officials do propose things.

I also know why last years cells are now banned and i am nott saying its wrong, but i think that cells are only going to get more dangerous in the future, if they are regulated to a certain size the only way to increase performance is make the cell walls thinner

Lipo is looking good all of a sudden

Lee, don't worry! LiPo is so much better than NiMH in so many ways!

As to the 2007 battery list, keep in mind that ALL EFRA-associated countries except one voted yes to abandoning the 2007 list and make a totally new 2008 list. Here in Norway we chose to keep also the 2007 list for 2008, with a few exceptions (a few IB batches)

So, which driver or club will propose LiPo via BRCA for the EFRA AGM?

I'll buy that person a pint!