Lazer zxr

[adam lancia]

He's just explaining the machining steps. He's starting with 10mm stock. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.

EDIT: Looks like Ema beat me to part of the explanation.

3mm plus a washer of some sort would work I would think, something like the old steel thrust washers from the original Stealth slipper assembly would do nicely as long as it would fit over the 3mm threads.

[oosh123]

Originally Posted by alcyon

hmm but i thought the spider is out of production... anyway can you show me a pic of those pulleys front and side view?

I could if I didn't sold my spider a month ago =(

[Welshy40]

Originally Posted by adam lancia

He's just explaining the machining steps. He's starting with 10mm stock. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.

EDIT: Looks like Ema beat me to part of the explanation.

3mm plus a washer of some sort would work I would think, something like the old steel thrust washers from the original Stealth slipper assembly would do nicely as long as it would fit over the 3mm threads.

Ok i was a bit dense but now i get it. Had a crap day, possibility of being made redundant.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Ema

Amazing job !!!!

Welshy, the 3mm parts are necessary to create the threaded sections for the two locknuts, one for the one way and one for the slipper (if alcyon don't want to use an imperial 5/40 nut ...).

Is a 3mm nut enough big to keep in place the B4 spring ?
Or maybe is it necessary a plate assembly like the B4.1 ?

In any case really a great job , hope that sooner or later we can got it in our hands .

Bye
Ema

Thanks Ema,yes a 3mm locknut is more than enough to hold the spring in, the proof is my optima mid slipper which is working perfectly. For sure i wouldnt want to use the inch size nut that associated uses for the B4 ,i want somehting easy to get and standard.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by adam lancia

. From the ridge on the right side it's going to be machined down to 8mm on each side (bearing on the right, splines for pulley on the left), then down to 4mm for the front one way hub assembly and the slipper plate flats, then down to 3mm so he can cut the 3mm threads for the lock nut.

hi adam, you were wrong about the 8mm, looking at pic 2 in my proposal post,the bearing will be on the left side, same side as the rear pulley,the only reason i have the 8mm stepdown on the right side going to the B4 slipper side is to save some weight, and to support the B4 slipper plate. Otherwise i could have just leave the right side 10mm stock diameter. The 10mm diameter is also necessary to stop the shaft from moving to the left side, basically it takes the place of the rear hub.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Ok i was a bit dense but now i get it. Had a crap day, possibility of being made redundant.

you mean job layoff ? i hope it doesnt come to that.

[alcyon]

Ok welshy, since its more or less sorted there are few things to get done.
1. RW spur. If its not too much trouble could you get RW to make an exact copy of the B4 spur in 98 or 100T? I suggest you to make the spur in the same thickness as the B4 one, because if i am not mistaken, the thickness of kyosho spur gear is a little less than the B4, which is about 5mm thick. and from my measurements, the B4 slipper hex grrove is 1mm deep each side compared to the 0.5mm you asked RW to make. Its up to you if you want to wait for my final protoype to be made or if you want to ask RW to come out with it now, so that we can get them concurently.

2. The gear cover needs to be modified, you could either send your gear cover to me to modify it, or you have to ream a hole by yourself, and i will supply you the clear plastic tube to cover the longer layshaft end. I ream the gear cover to the diameter of the tube, making sure its a tight fit, then adjust the angle and length correctly, then place silicon sealeant on the outer edges, let it set for one day, then place super glue around the seal both inside and outside.

[sz3]

Originally Posted by alcyon

...

So if you guys got any suggestions,questions, objections, praises ,etc, voice it out now.

Looks really great, can't wait to get one, too . I assume we will have to modify the gearbox cover like you did on your Optima?

ps: Already answered while I was writing this post

[alcyon]

i will work on the drawing tonight and complete it, my target is to go to the machinist this saturday morning, pass him the drawings, and the parts to test fit, that means, i cant drive my optima mid until the layshaft is ready ! The tricky part is deciding the tolerances.
The plan is to test fit the shaft on my ZX, once all fits, i send it to welshy to test under his extreme conditions, then he gives the verdict if we go ahead for "mass" production or revise some more.

[Welshy40]

I will call RW today and update you.

[isobarik]

What i did is that i took an RB5 shaft from my friend since he stripped the gear gave it to an friend of mine that removed the gear by machining it and then he drilled out the MMS lashaft that i had laying around and voila....

mvh isobarik

[alcyon]

Ok, i just want to confirm with you guys who has the ZX, could you please assemble your layshaft complete but out of your car, and measure the dimensions i shown in the first drawing. i just want to confirm i am getting the right dimensions from the datum which is the one way side of the shaft.
Dimension B = 12.5mm
Dimension A Bearing to bearing outer = 27.5mm
Dimension C = 28.5mm

These are rough dimensions becuase added up they are 68.5mm not the total of 69 that i measured on the ZX shaft. Notice that the distance from the end of the shaft to the ZX rear hub plate is 55.5mm. Do you get this dimension on your ZX layshaft assembly?

Pic 2 shows a rough assembly drawing showing the position of the B4 inner plate. note i kept the distance the same with the ZX shaft at 55.5mm. Also from the total new layshaft length, you see that it is 79.5mm long, that means its 10.5mm longer than the original ZX layshaft.

Also need to ask a favor, any of you can sell to me cheaply some RW Lazer spurs that use the B4 slipper pads that welshy designed? My friend who runs the ZX-R just need the spurs and he wont be running my new layshaft, so this is good chance for you guys to get rid of the old stock.
Also there might be race coming the end of the month, and since my B4 plates will be at the machinist, i have nothing to put in my optima to practice and to race. i am trying to source a set from infernosonly.com but i am also trying to get a few kyosho parts at a go to save on shipping. Just in case i cant get it on time could some one borrow me the B4 slipper plates so that i can race?
Getting this Layshaft done has fired me up to rebuild back my ZX which is in pieces right now, and i target to have my personal ZX up and running with my new layshaft by the end of this year. But of course i target the layshaft to get to you guys much faster !

[isobarik]

Looking good alcyon

mvh Isobarik

[Welshy40]

Great drawing but isnt there supposed to be a thrust race between the spring and plate? If yes then may need to be a bit longer. Just looked at the b4 manual and there is no thrust race so all ok. Superb design and would love a cad drawing of that.

Alcyon, I will send you a new one of my spurs plus a new 100t b4 version when I get it.

[oosh123]

Originally Posted by alcyon

Ok, i just want to confirm with you guys who has the ZX, could you please assemble your layshaft complete but out of your car, and measure the dimensions i shown in the first drawing. i just want to confirm i am getting the right dimensions from the datum which is the one way side of the shaft.
Dimension B = 12.5mm
Dimension A Bearing to bearing outer = 27.5mm
Dimension C = 28.5mm

These are rough dimensions becuase added up they are 68.5mm not the total of 69 that i measured on the ZX shaft. Notice that the distance from the end of the shaft to the ZX rear hub plate is 55.5mm. Do you get this dimension on your ZX layshaft assembly?

Pic 2 shows a rough assembly drawing showing the position of the B4 inner plate. note i kept the distance the same with the ZX shaft at 55.5mm. Also from the total new layshaft length, you see that it is 79.5mm long, that means its 10.5mm longer than the original ZX layshaft.

Also need to ask a favor, any of you can sell to me cheaply some RW Lazer spurs that use the B4 slipper pads that welshy designed? My friend who runs the ZX-R just need the spurs and he wont be running my new layshaft, so this is good chance for you guys to get rid of the old stock.
Also there might be race coming the end of the month, and since my B4 plates will be at the machinist, i have nothing to put in my optima to practice and to race. i am trying to source a set from infernosonly.com but i am also trying to get a few kyosho parts at a go to save on shipping. Just in case i cant get it on time could some one borrow me the B4 slipper plates so that i can race?
Getting this Layshaft done has fired me up to rebuild back my ZX which is in pieces right now, and i target to have my personal ZX up and running with my new layshaft by the end of this year. But of course i target the layshaft to get to you guys much faster !

Just saw something and would like to point out.

I am not sure what your e-clip groove's dimension is because I can't see your shaft's part file. the e-clip groove OD for a 4mm shaft is 3.2mm +0/-.075 and the width should be .64 +.05/-0.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by oosh123

Just saw something and would like to point out.

I am not sure what your e-clip groove's dimension is because I can't see your shaft's part file. the e-clip groove OD for a 4mm shaft is 3.2mm +0/-.075 and the width should be .64 +.05/-0.

Hi oosh, according to my JIS reference its 3mm+0.06 -0 on diameter, and width 0.7mm + 0.1 -0.in my experience having a very slighlty wider clip slot (0.1mm) does not affect the design. i did that on my mid shaft.
And i did not show you the part file yet cause i was in the middle of making the part drawing last night.
The drawing i showed in the post above was the assembly.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

Great drawing but isnt there supposed to be a thrust race between the spring and plate? If yes then may need to be a bit longer. Just looked at the b4 manual and there is no thrust race so all ok. Superb design and would love a cad drawing of that.

Alcyon, I will send you a new one of my spurs plus a new 100t b4 version when I get it.

Yes Welshy, there is no thrust race at the spur side, thats exactly why i chose the B4 slipper over Losi. The good thing about the losi design with thrust race is you can change the spur without changing the slipper setting. But how often do you change spur on an offroad car with a gear cover? Not often. So i opted for a cheaper and simpler design. besides i beleive Losi keeps changing their design, compared to asssociated, so parts for Assoc whould be easier to get over the long run. Made an appointment to see the machinist tommorow. i hope the shaft wont cost too much becuase of the 10 spline slots to cut. This week cant play RC. on Sunday i turn 36. Cant wait for the chocolate ice cream cake

[Welshy40]

I understand just couldnt remember if associated came with or without a thrust race. Been quite asleep recently.

Anyway to add to your layshaft design my gearbox design attached should look rather nice. Ok I have also done a cad drawing for the bottom section as well but will see which way I go on the design as the palstic option may be the best. Will keep you posted once I have the bits in front of me.

[alcyon]

Originally Posted by Welshy40

I understand just couldnt remember if associated came with or without a thrust race. Been quite asleep recently.

Anyway to add to your layshaft design my gearbox design attached should look rather nice. Ok I have also done a cad drawing for the bottom section as well but will see which way I go on the design as the palstic option may be the best. Will keep you posted once I have the bits in front of me.

looks great, but i really have no idea how it looks depth wise, perhaps a 3D view or top view would do good ? Do you have the B4 parts already with you like the plates, pads and spring? If not you might consider to get them first so that you can plug and play when you receive the shaft, which could be end of march up second week of april.

[Welshy40]

Depth wise the two carbon fibre plates will be 2mm thick and will show pics when I get it built correctly next week.

I have the B4 items already and will have to make the centre hole bigger on the spur gear to match the B4 spurs as RW will be unable to make me 100t version until the first week of April. Send me a PM with your address as I can send you a new my spur gear (my version) so at least you can use that until we get the new spur.