Build questions.

[frogger]

Originally Posted by Lee

Frogger, there has to be air in the shock in order for it to work, the piston will be locked "packed" if there is no air in there

Not if there is enough give in the surrounding materials (shock cap and body, o-rings, half cut rubber bladder, etc.) to compensate. Especially if you compress the shock shaft half way to bleed the shock in the first place. My shocks are completely air free (or as best as I could bleed them) and work just dandily

As for pressure, I'm no hydraulics or suspension engineer and it's an extremely complex subject so I am very open to be convinced otherwise

[Mossy]

I tested early in the year running normal bladders (uncut) and ones with foam compensators behind them. Personal preference for me is that with a bladder in fully, the car does generate too much initial pack. Tracks like Coventry with many small bumps and large jumps to clear meant that I felt the car wasnt responding correctly, due to packing out too fast.

By cutting the diaphragm you are essentially making an air/oil shock which is true. I find that the bleed hole in the top of the shock works perfectly to get the correct amount of recoil on each shock, never had a difficulty with this and have found Schumacher shocks easier to do than Associated.

I have started running 3 hole pistons to generate the pak i want with slightly stiffer oils. These seem to work best once again with a cut diaphragm.

As i say, my opinion.

Si

[Chrislong]

So with the cut bladders, the wheels will respond better to ripples in the surface etc?

In theory, indoors the shocks should be better suited with full bladders - on smooth surfaces etc, only jumps to land. But outdoors go to cut bladders? Would this make sense?.... or am I way off the mark.

[Chris Doughty]

generally, if you have rebound in your shocks its a bit like running a stiffer spring, the rebound is working with the spring.

suck is working against the spring. so the car feels softer

rebound or suck is not linear along the shock compression.

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

Hey Rich,
Yes I am running a oneway layshaft without the pin. If you were to fit the pin then it is effectively the stock layshaft = locked.

The front yokes, I think you mean the castor blocks? Im never sure what to call them either but Matt White corrected me a few weeks ago, but yes - I cut mine down flush and then drill the hole right through so then the balljoint will go in and sit flush.

If you read the setup sheets and the team guys run 0mm, this is actually the castor blocks cut. The stock blocks have 3mm moulded onto them and this is too much camber change, even with the inside ballstud mounted with 0mm washers.

Chris

Hi Chris

Thanks for the reply, I think im correct in assuming that you are running a different setup to Mossy then for Worksop ?
Are you still using the front diff with the one way layshaft ?

Im building/setting up Chris Lovely`s CAT SX for him ( he got Schumacher sponsorship ) and wish to get it as perfect as i can for Rd2.

Mossy`s setup as quoted below..........

Im also unsure as to what the bold part means. Are these the std gears as come with the kit ?

The rest of your info is as i assumed - much apreciated mate

Transmission-
Rear Diff Height - Low
Front Diff Height - Low
Layshaft Pulley - Pin Through
Front Drive – One Way
Gearing - 83 x 24 on Speed Passion 5.5
Internal Ratio - 36 Tooth Pulley

[Chrislong]

Hey Rich,
My differences are - I am running the rear diff high, this is to decrease driveshaft plunge and should increase traction, also it effects shock pack at speed.

My layshaft pulley is rolling. I find the one way diff is ultimately faster but a little harder to drive, I am aiming to make my car as forgiving as it can be while feeling positive and 'pushable'.

The internal ratio 36 tooth, thats the pulley on the opposite side of the spur layshaft which reverses the drive of the motor so everything spins in the right direction. You need to change both gears at the same time so they mesh, if you have a manual (I don't here, at work), the stock internal ratio is the middle one of the 3 available looking in the last few pages of the manual. Mine is stock, will be leaving it at that - mainly because too many variables bifuddullz me.

Chris

[Mossy]

I actually ran a 34 tooth pulley at Worksop. I had the 36 one on my 4/2 car, sorry.

Si

[AmiSMB]

Originally Posted by mossy

Transmission-
Rear Diff Height - Low
Front Diff Height - Low
Layshaft Pulley - Pin Through
Front Drive – One Way
Gearing - 83 x 24 on Speed Passion 5.5
Internal Ratio - 36T Pulley

In the Worksop report here on oOple it was said you were running the Speed Passion 6.5 in your LiPo car is this the case or have you put down what you were running in the 4/2 car? I presume the 36T is a prototype pulley and would be used with a 20 as Schumacher have only listed 34/22 (2.8),33/23(kit 2.6) and 32/24 (2.4). Would you happen to know when they are going to get some stock of the small alloy (22,23 and 24) gears so we can try out the 34/22 combination?

[Mossy]

I ran a 5.5 at Worksop. I did tell Jimmy this when he asked me so we can blame him lol. As for the metal pulleys, cant say as im not sure on what Schumacher are out of.

Si

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by Chrislong

Hey Rich,
My differences are - I am running the rear diff high, this is to decrease driveshaft plunge and should increase traction, also it effects shock pack at speed.

My layshaft pulley is rolling. I find the one way diff is ultimately faster but a little harder to drive, I am aiming to make my car as forgiving as it can be while feeling positive and 'pushable'.

The internal ratio 36 tooth, thats the pulley on the opposite side of the spur layshaft which reverses the drive of the motor so everything spins in the right direction. You need to change both gears at the same time so they mesh, if you have a manual (I don't here, at work), the stock internal ratio is the middle one of the 3 available looking in the last few pages of the manual. Mine is stock, will be leaving it at that - mainly because too many variables bifuddullz me.

Chris

Thanks again for a comprehensive reply Chris - understood

[MattW]

The whole "shock setup" thing is quite extensive, and there are many potential variables - more on these than others.

Back to Cd's point about a hole behind a bladder - in theory i'd agree, however, in practice - let's just say that was mk1 top caps, and i only ran them twice before i had some blocked up!

When you cut the bladder, you are effectively making yourself an AE style shock, although this does depend on how you build them. You can still build them with differing pressures.

I have run the shocks with the bladder cut, and no internal pressure all year. There have even built them with a little "suction" in a Losi style, and that does help on the smaller faster bumps. However, it does have some negatives, which can differ depending on how you like your car to feel.

In recent times i have been playing around with this more, and have actually switched to running a bladder on a few occasions, and Nathan W ran a bladder at Eastrax F2's.

As for ratios, i've been running what turned out to be kit for quite some time, and have been quite happy with how the power feels.