Vintage Buggies; which will you suggest for racing/runner

[optiman]

I am toying with the idea of getting a vintage buggy just for racing/runner. It does not need to be the perfect vintage machine and or difficult/costly to get spares.
All I need is something I can enjoy while not having the stress of worrying about where or how much it will cost getting spares.
In the other hand will not want to get a POC of a buggy I dont know of or handles too bad.

I was concidering the Tamiya The Frog, always wanted one but never had one nor seen one in action. I've had friends with Beetles and Blackfoots(I assembled them all for them zillion of years ago) and remener them having fun without any hassles. Is the front suspension too bad?
Others I might concider;
Avante
Optima

What would you suggest? Pros & Cons?

[southern racer]

How about a RC10 or Losi XX?

Both were very popular so relatively easy to get parts for and not too expensive. Both handle very well, can run modern electrics and be reasonably competitve even against the latest cars.

[Naushad]

Hotshot is good.

[ralphee]

Id steer clear of Tamiya for harder racing, for fun, they are top, but racing, hmm, depends whether you want 2WD or 4WD, and an Avante is a minefield of maintenance.
2WD is a lot cheaper on maintenance, and a nice Losi, or even a re re RC10?
Spares are going to be around for that one for sure, and even the older Losi's are pretty abundant in parts.
4WD, well, most are pretty spendy to start with, id always say Yokomo, but parts can be a PITA to obtain, and afford, some Schumacher the same, but, hmm a tasty CAT2000 would be killer, really does depend what you want it for, and how far your budget will stretch!

lee

[rallymaddaz]

What about a Schumacher Procat - I've just finished restoring mine and raced it on Friday indoors for the first time in over 20years. It showed up a load of modern buggies with only cheap non sensors electrics installed.

Can't wait to give it a go again this week - I think I prefer it to my sx3

[optiman]

Originally Posted by southern racer

How about a RC10 or Losi XX?

Both were very popular so relatively easy to get parts for and not too expensive. Both handle very well, can run modern electrics and be reasonably competitve even against the latest cars.

Lol, just as I finished writting this thread I turned around and saw my vintage shelf queen Championship RC10, but is in inmaculate mint condition!!!! And although it has lost value due to the re release I dont feel like running it, buying a beaten up RC10 might be an option. The problem for me is that the RC10 is like the belly button... everyone has one!!!

Like Ralphee said, Tamiyas are fun... and that's about it. For me racing vintages would be for fun. If I want speed and excellent handling I'll just run something modern, perhaps with a vintage body covering it.
The Hotshot is nice, but I am not really a big fan. Schu's are expensive and difficult to get spares.
Why is the Avante so high mantainance? I would highly concider running one.
I would rather race a 4wd, and a Optima maybe, but I already been that path when I restored a Mid Custom to shelf mint condition to later race it and scratch the poor buggy. It not felt right for me...
What about the Frog's front suspension?
DanB4, did your pal raced his Frog among you guys? If yes, how did he do?

Vintage racer wish list;
1)Fun, no stress about breaking something.
2)Cool looking
3)Mech speed controller & brushed motor; nothing beats a high end motor with sparks flying all over!!!
4)Sturdy or at least not a whimp

[Paul Field]

Hi we race Frogs at our club against Wild Ones and other vintage cars.
The Frogs are great fun but are not that competitive against a vintage RC10. Vintage racing is always going to be more for fun as it would take a complicated handicap sytem to make it fair. This is because all the older cars are so different.
My advice buy a Frog and have fun they are great.
I posted a video of Frog racing on our TRCMCC section here on Oople.

Cheers
Paul

[DanB4]

The Frog was all about fun it bounced around the track, was nursed over jumps and got lapped several times by my optima mid and rc10.

[ozipanda]

We race Tamiya Hotshots, Boomerangs and Bigwigs with 540 silvercan motors and it is great fun. If you want to go a bit faster and more durable 4wd car the Tamiya Manta Ray or Top Force are great as well, parts are cheap and readily available.

[Crashtest33]

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares??
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

[DanB4]

Originally Posted by Crashtest33

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares??
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

Speaking of a TOMS thanks to J.M./Bormac

[ozipanda]

Originally Posted by Crashtest33

Has anyone not seen the price of vintage tamiya spares??
Kyosho Lazer ZX-R all the way bro. Loads of the breakable parts still available for reasonable money. Either that or my TOMS :wink:

Is anyone dumb enough to buy Tamiya parts from there?!
How much are spare gears, front bumper and front bulkhead for a Lazer btw?!

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by optiman

I am toying with the idea of getting a vintage buggy just for racing/runner.

It depends on which you want to do, if you want to race it seriously or just for a laugh. For racing if you want to be competitive just find the newest car that fits into the year restrictions, technology moved on so fast that a chassis a year or two older would not keep up. Of course if it is just for the laugh then racing with something like a Frog is a lot more fun as you are just trying to get it round the track without crashing rather than worrying about hitting corner apexes. In the mid 80s I was racing a Frog which was very competitive against the Scorpions and early RC10s, best result was a C final win at the nationals, but there were very few parts on it that weren't worked on or replaced with upgrades.

All I need is something I can enjoy while not having the stress of worrying about where or how much it will cost getting spares.

If worrying about spares availability is important to you then go for any of Tamiyas popular re-releases, or the original ones that have been re-released. Plenty of spares still around for the likes of the Hornet, Frog, Scorcher, Boomerang, etc.

I was concidering the Tamiya The Frog, always wanted one but never had one nor seen one in action. I've had friends with Beetles and Blackfoots(I assembled them all for them zillion of years ago) and remener them having fun without any hassles. Is the front suspension too bad?

Nothing 'wrong' with the Frog front suspension, but if you want to run one for some time there are a few tricks you can do it make it considerably better, same with the rear suspension and the gearbox.

It's a Frog, plenty of them about. Pick up a cheap second hand one and run it, if you don't like it sell it again and get your money back as there's plenty of buyers. If you have fun with it then get a better one or a new one to keep. Either way, at least you will have had the experience.

In the other hand will not want to get a POC of a buggy I dont know of or handles too bad.

Everyone compares vintage with the modern buggies they are used to and surprise, surprise the old cars aren't the same quality with loads of play and dodgy handling. That's why we love the old cars, in the same way people love original Minis even though they have terrible ride, no grip and no power compared to the new BMW ones.


It's all down to personal choice, go with whatever you fancy and everyone will just tell you to get whatever they like. Personally when I'm off bashing I always take a Frog, Super Blackfoot, Sand Scorcher, Ultima and Optima, with a Lazer ZX-R, Optima Mid and RC10T2 getting an occasional run. The Frog and Blackfoot get thrashed, they bounce off impacts that would take the corner off a racing chassis and are just pure fun to drive. The Scorcher just looks great when bouncing around and attracts the most attention. The Optima gets the most use and is pretty indestructible with some updated gears in the gearbox and a belt drive conversion. The ZX-R gets little use these days when bashing as the parts that can break are the same ones that are impossible to find and I've got through my spares.

Spares is something to think about, while some people insist on spending a fortune on new parts every time and having to search for them, it's cheaper and easier to keep an eye open for cheap cars on ebay as a source of spares to keep you going. I have picked up a good supply of spares by watching for battered looking cars on ebay, the parts will keep you running and a few scratches won't stop the parts working.

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by optiman

Lol, just as I finished writting this thread I turned around and saw my vintage shelf queen Championship RC10, but is in inmaculate mint condition!!!! And although it has lost value due to the re release I dont feel like running it, buying a beaten up RC10 might be an option.

Optima maybe, but I already been that path when I restored a Mid Custom to shelf mint condition to later race it and scratch the poor buggy. It not felt right for me...

Buying new parts for something that is going to be run is something I will never understand, such as sourcing new dampers because the original tops and bodies are scratched, or because a perfectly good chassis has a few scratches underneath, when the new ones will end up with the same damage after running them.

If you are going to run something then getting a tidy used example and sticking a new bodyshell on it will give you something that no one will be able to tell from a fully restored car when they see it on the track, and you are won't wince whenever you crash worrying about which overpriced new part you have just scratched. None of my runners have parts replaced unless they are damaged, considering how many I have it would cost me a fortune anyway. For example my Optima runner had a horrible pink body, some missing gears, no wheels and a bent front under guard, it cost me £25. Gears were from the cheaper Ultima gear set, the under guard was straightened, not replaced, wheels and tyres from my spares box and a repro body added so the whole buggy cost me £50. Nothing else has been replaced and as all the parts that get scratched are already scratched I don't feel guilty about running it hard and crashing it. Yes, they might have a bit more play than all new parts, but that is going to make no difference when you aren't concerned about fractions of a second in lap time and to be honest a lot of the really old cars were designed to run with all that slop in them.

[DerbyDan]

It seems to be a real struggle to get enough people together on a regular basis to race a full vintage class, so it seems I normally end racing my older cars against the modern stuff in the main heats... & just seeing how I fare. My Vintage 'mounts' are all what i'd call racer-grade cars so are a bit more suitable for such racing compared to cars like the SRBs, Hornets, Frogs etc but it is still amazing how well these cars go especially when fitted with more up-to-date electrics... I've even managed to be quite competitive, finding myself at the sharp end of a few A finals, when the track conditions have favoured the rear motor configuration cars (all my vintage runners are 2wd)

I have so far raced a Worlds RC10, a Losi XX and most recently a Losi JRX2 - I get a massive buzz from running these cars, especially if I get a decent result & I love the reaction from the other racers - some think its some 'hot' new design whilst others remember the days when it actually was the 'latest thing' - but all seem rather miffed when they realise they've just been beaten by a 20-25yr old car!

[Crashtest33]

Originally Posted by ozipanda

Is anyone dumb enough to buy Tamiya parts from there?!
How much are spare gears, front bumper and front bulkhead for a Lazer btw?!

Sorry, I didn't mean Chris or Myles. I meant in general.
Also, did you break the front bulkheads when you were racing?

[Dandare]

I really enjoy racing my Frog, I chose it as it brought back memories of looking at one in my local hobby shop when they came out but couldn't afford one. It is a Re-re but they're pretty faithful to the original tbh. It has the kit esc & stock silver can 540 so it's been reliable so far. I only get away with the (let's face it, awful) suspension as the track is mainly flat astro, it'd be terrible on any bumps

[optiman]

To race/run a vintage again will require to be a 100% enjoyable expirience for me, no worries. Racing my Mid Custom was fun, but at the same time it was troubling for me to examine the buggy after each run and watch how everything I put a lot effort to get it mint go all to waste, it just does not make sence for me. I really enjoy my small vintage collection and stare at them occacionally, cleaning them, doing this and that, but I would hate myself to beat them at the track. But I also, thanks to some members here, I'm starting to get an itch of running something vintage. But like Terry said in his own words, once is on the track with the body on it does not matter if its new, scratched or beat up as long as its running.
I think most probbably I'll go with a Frog or RC10 or might hack one of my B44's and turned it into a Frankeinoptima, once it has the body on top I think it will do it for me. To mimic the chain drive noise I will get a metal MOD1 spur and leave plenty of lash on the pinion LOL!!!

[ralphee]

Vintage meets are what ive got in mind from here too TBH, as Dan said, its hard to get the numbers up i guess.
I have an indoor venue that run buggies on carpet here in Bham, i pan to acid test my Yokomo's there in the next couple of weeks against modern buggies, and a silly part of me hopes it instils some passion for others to join in the vintage fun.
There is just something about vintage cars, little sense of childhood nostalgia, seeing them race is just the best, hence, even my new built '94 will now be run, and its the car i have a pretty hefty spares back up for.
I think ill be harder on my 91, more so when i can get a little pitbox of bits for her.
Once thats sorted, i want to join Dan at Silverstone, crazy thing is i dont drive, but ive a brother who is eager to run me down for some racing fun, its been far to long away from it!
As for the Frog and racing, i have to add, id get a kick out of seeing one tanking round, vintage is vintage, and, its a bit of fun, and takes a lot of us lads back a few years!

lee

[terry.sc]

Originally Posted by Dandare

I only get away with the (let's face it, awful) suspension as the track is mainly flat astro, it'd be terrible on any bumps

You can get the Frog to run fine over bumps, my old one would glide over grass just like the Scorpions it raced against. The problem is both front and rear springs are way too hard for racing, replacing the rears with better springs and adding coil over shocks to the front end makes a world of difference, after all it's what we did to them back in the day, and shimming the front end improves steering, although you can go over the top with it.