RC10 Gold Pan Re-Release??!!

[Si Coe]

I could have swore that 5% figure came from Associated themselves talking about RC10 sales. In the US in the mid/late 80's RC10's sold for bashing as much as racing, and many people bought them over Tamiyas simply because it was an American brand.

Still won't touch Hornet sales worldwide but at that point in time for the US market it was the leader.

A re-re shouldn't hurt restoration. True vintage fans restore for the love of old cars and a reproduction, no matter how faithful isn't the real thing. All it will do is make parts more available and slash silly money prices for originals.
In fact, though its not talked about as much now more people restoring Sand Scorchers than ever. Its easier, and no longer the preserve of those with vast sums of money to blow on old kits.

There is most certainly a market for an RC10 re-re, but I question if this is a good plan for Associated. Trading on past success is all well and good, but a 25 year old design doesn't fit well when you are trying to convince people you are a cutting edge company. It works for Tamiya because they trade heavily on nostalgia as it is.

[DanB4]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

I think it's just a build up to a new B5, trading on the past legacy.

There's no reason for Associated to rerelease the RC10, although I would love it to be true purely so I could pick up a spare set or two of rear arm mounts as they are the only part I have broke on mine and my RC10CE still gets regularly raced and bashed.

That's just Craig enjoying getting back into 1/10th without any pressure on him and seeing what he could do with it for fun. If he had a B4 there would be so much pressure on him to do well and his performance would be compared with others. Based on Craigs set up if it was 'testing' for a rerelease there's going to be a huge chunk of brass supplied to bolt on the front.

Agree with you Terry

[sheriff]

I never understand the 'they re-re can't because they destroyed all the original tooling'

If it would be profitable, surely it wouldn't be difficult with modern technology to copy the original parts??

[Si Coe]

I've already got a Team car, but if I didn't I'd probably be happy enough to buy a re-re with a B4.2 Stealth box and V2 shocks. Not 100% authentic but good enough.
And if you don't need to tool for the shocks and the gearbox then thats reduced the cost massively as they are the hardest parts......

[Robby]

Originally Posted by terry.sc

It's a lot simpler to reverse engineer an r/c car than design it from scratch, if you've got an original to copy from. It took the designer at Tamiya 3 weeks to draw up the parts in CAD for the Sand Scorcher rerelease, just by measuring the original in their museum and tweaking the weak spots.

That's a lot of CAD time, and you still haven't factored in all the time involved in producing all the molds, castings and stampings required to produce a car. And we're not talking about a (basically) all-plastic car like the SS, the RC10 was a multi-material car (alloy, nylon, fiberglass, steel).
Tamiya can get away with making repops because that's what they do, they're not really into the racing end of the biz, so they can afford to keep producing 30-year-old designs in limited numbers for comparatively high prices - because their customer base is primarily modelers/shelf-queeners.

Considering racing is about 5% of the whole r/c car market there's no way an expensive race chassis would ever be anywhere near the biggest seller. maybe at American race tracks, but not in general and certainly not worldwide.

You also need to consider total sales, and when you're talking "worldwide" the first thing you need to do is eliminate roughly 50% or so of the map being as they're impoverished third world countries that don't buy any (or hardly any) rc cars - and then factor in that for a company like AE they realize that somewhere about 50% or more of their total sales come just from the U.S. Some of you seem to forget just how large the U.S. is in comparison to any European country.
And finally, when talking about the whole "5% thing" you need to remember that AE is a racing company, they don't really have any history of making basher cars and those they did proved unpopular with buyers and unprofitable for their coffers. Any discontinued models have been rebranded exclusively under the ThunderTiger label head (B2, B3, T3, etc).

[Robby]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

I could have swore that 5% figure came from Associated themselves talking about RC10 sales. In the US in the mid/late 80's RC10's sold for bashing as much as racing, and many people bought them over Tamiyas simply because it was an American brand.

There is most certainly a market for an RC10 re-re, but I question if this is a good plan for Associated. Trading on past success is all well and good, but a 25 year old design doesn't fit well when you are trying to convince people you are a cutting edge company. It works for Tamiya because they trade heavily on nostalgia as it is.

I don't think so, but I think that figure came from Traxass in their justification to stop producing race-specific products and venturing into the tamiya territory of marketing almost primarily to bashers/fun-runners.
Part of the marketing of the original RC10 to non-racers back in the day was its durability, as it cost roughly the same as a comperable Tamiya kit but didn't explode into a million plastic bits every time you hit something.

I just tend to think any accompanying backlash from AE loyalists, which in the States there are unbelievable numbers compared to the UK (or the rest of the world), with the time and resources spent on a repop - when their customer base has been clammoring for a B5 for at least 3 years now, will have protesters lined up outside their offices in California chanting and holding torches threatening to burn the place down compared to the relative few holding a candelight vigil in hopes of a long discontinued piece of nostagila.

We also need to remember AE's longstanding history of cloak-&-dagger advertising campaigns, and their first use of the Area51 moniker - heavily shadowed and backlit mystery photos, with wording alluding to something "coming soon," only to find out later that it's something else entirely.
So does one really think the boys would release pics of the original RC10 packaging, so as to sell a few cars to the vintage crowd - or is it instead a play on "going back to their roots" of having the first alloy tubed 2wd offroad buggy in preparation for the B5 getting the same alloy chassis (and midmotor option) that everyone else has so as to catch up in the marketplace and gain back their lost sales and following they've lost in the last 3-5 years?

[Naushad]

I must say I totally agree with Robby.

I doubt there will be a rc10 re-release unless ae decides they can take the gamble in profits and investment.

The profits from these teams arises from technology that will help someone win races. That's why they are still here today. The rc10 goldpan isn't going to that.

[Si Coe]

I'm pretty sure I've got an article with Gene Hustings saying IIRC 1 in 10 RC10's ever actually make it to the race track dated around 1988 ie pre-Traxxas. So not 5%, 10% but you get the idea.

Look at a US RC mag from that era and every other advert was for RC10 conversions - make it a monster truck, sprint car, Nascar, dragster, give it trailing arm suspension, flat carbon chassis, double deck chassis, 4wd etc.
In the US back then the RC10 was literally everywhere!

We tend to forget that because over here an RC10 cost the same as a Procat and twice the price of a Topcat, so most race meetings had 90% Schumacher grids and most bashers used much cheaper Tamiyas and Kyoshos.

Whilst I don't think Associated shoudl re-re the RC10 themselves for the reasons listed I think it would make some sense to license somebody else to do so - rather like those companies that make licensed repros of real cars.

[Robby]

Originally Posted by Si Coe

I'm pretty sure I've got an article with Gene Hustings saying IIRC 1 in 10 RC10's ever actually make it to the race track dated around 1988 ie pre-Traxxas. So not 5%, 10% but you get the idea.

Look at a US RC mag from that era and every other advert was for RC10 conversions - make it a monster truck, sprint car, Nascar, dragster, give it trailing arm suspension, flat carbon chassis, double deck chassis, 4wd etc.
In the US back then the RC10 was literally everywhere!

We tend to forget that because over here an RC10 cost the same as a Procat and twice the price of a Topcat, so most race meetings had 90% Schumacher grids and most bashers used much cheaper Tamiyas and Kyoshos.

Whilst I don't think Associated shoudl re-re the RC10 themselves for the reasons listed I think it would make some sense to license somebody else to do so - rather like those companies that make licensed repros of real cars.

You could be right, but at the same time during that era (late '80s) track growth in the U.S. was mind-boggling - seems there was a new track opening every six months. At one point I had a choice of about 8 different tracks within 30 minutes driving time to choose from.

Yes, there were a lot of "conversion kits" back in those days, and also a huge aftermarket parts market - in part to address all the issues those early cars had (being as none of them were any good straight out of the box), but at the same time AE only had the RC10 buggy and the RC12 and with 1:1 racing being so diverse they were only replicating the other popular classes (straight 'buggy' racing has never been as overwhelmingly popular in the U.S. as it is in the U.K.). Sprint cars, nascar, truck racing, etc., were all just as popular and in some regions of the U.S. even more popular.
People tend to forget that what we today call the ST, or Stadium Truck, class developed out of the so-called monster trucks Tamiya was making back then (and still do today), and conversion kits were available to turn RC10s into monster trucks using tamiya rims and tires and a body from bolink or parma. We originally called it the Heavy Metal class, and even the first ST's by Losi (JRXT) followed by AE (RC10T) were just called Trucks.

I remember thinking Schumacher was only a tire manufacturer, being as they changed the tire market pretty much overnight - with the release of their original Mini-Pins - and never even knew they made a car until I came over to the UK for a big race. For reasons I've never understood they've never really tried to build their U.S. marketshare, as I can count on one hand how many Schuies I see at the track over the course of any given year (every other brand is better selling and more widely available) and as a result they've always been more pricey and never gained a following.

Anyways, again, I just don't think it'd be of any real benefit for AE to spend the time and effort and investment on a re-pop - but since ThunderTiger owns them, perhaps they'll do something. I just don't see it happening under the AE banner.

[Pabloman]

I think AE should do the gold pan re-pop – with stealth transmission and the long arms to compete in races today. A Masami Hirosaka Stealth car replica would also be cool – but might have to be sold by Yokomo

Reading the forums, it seems that the gold pan re-ignites a passion for the sport for a certain age group. I am old enough to remember the RC10 first time round – it was in an era when life was somehow better (Wall Street, Miami Vice, etc.) RC racing was perhaps more popular before computer games – that’s my perception.

If AE can re-ignite this passion in just a few of the 350’000 original RC10 owners, then this could bring more people into the sport.

I can say that my 6-year old son gets “dragged” to some races – but interestingly he now has quite a lot of kudos with his friends. Computer games are not very tactile and are not really social in the way that RC racing is. RC racing is a great sport for children and parents. And more should be done to link it with computers.

Second reason that AE should do it is that we all want a gold pan. Perhaps the B5 should be a mid-motor with a gold pan?

[adey]

I personally would prefer the re release of the rc10 worlds car with its black chassis and wishbones but I would probably buy any retro rc10 they release. Either way, associated electrics are a buisness and the car would need too sell well for them to make money. Personally I think whatever model rc10 they release ( if they do ) will grow legs and walk out of the retailers. It may even spur other manufacturers to re release their iconic models.

[Pabloman]

Totally agree, a black pan worlds would also be good!

[southern racer]

Interesting that whilst the gold pan editions have a massive following in the USA, the black tubbed versions seem to hold as much, or more even, interest in the UK. Does that hold true?

Maybe because the Rc10 took time to get as established here?

93 World championship was held in the UK and by then was the black tub later versions?

Or the later spec stealth and Worlds editions are just more suitable for running still with brushless power on the race track?

[adey]

I think the main reason for me wanting the worlds black pan car is I see it as the last or ultimate evolution of the alloy chassis rc10. Also maybe because I one seen Craig dreschers car and wanted it lol

[Pabloman]

The black pan worlds would be more suitable for lipo and would probably give modern cars a good run for their money at club level (+2.2 wheels, modern shocks, slipper).

I would love to see competitive retro cars at races - with the old style bodies

[adey]

Originally Posted by Pabloman

The black pan worlds would be more suitable for lipo and would probably give modern cars a good run for their money at club level (+2.2 wheels, modern shocks, slipper).

I would love to see competitive retro cars at races - with the old style bodies

Agreed.

[DerbyDan]

Originally Posted by Pabloman

The black pan worlds would be more suitable for lipo and would probably give modern cars a good run for their money at club level (+2.2 wheels, modern shocks, slipper).

I would love to see competitive retro cars at races - with the old style bodies

All the later released RC10s - Black tub Worlds & Team cars, Gold Pan CE (available through to end of production) & the later graphite came with the Stealth gearbox & slipper clutch which has the same basic internals that are still used in the B4 - so good the handle the torque of our modern brushless motors.... the battery mounting method remained the same with all the Ali-tubbed cars which is to be honest too tight beneath the rear bulkhead for most modern LiPo packs.

I'd like to see the RC10 re-released (so long as it was a faithfull reproduction & equal quality) - but I wonder actually how successfull it would be for Associated - there are so many of the original cars still out there that pretty much anyone who is a true enthusiast already has one (or many more!) If you are willing to search on ebay.us there are plenty of cars to choose from NIB sealed examples through to restoration projects!

[adey]

Originally Posted by DerbyDan

All the later released RC10s - Black tub Worlds & Team cars, Gold Pan CE (available through to end of production) & the later graphite came with the Stealth gearbox & slipper clutch which has the same basic internals that are still used in the B4 - so good the handle the torque of our modern brushless motors.... the battery mounting method remained the same with all the Ali-tubbed cars which is to be honest too tight beneath the rear bulkhead for most modern LiPo packs.

I'd like to see the RC10 re-released (so long as it was a faithfull reproduction & equal quality) - but I wonder actually how successfull it would be for Associated - there are so many of the original cars still out there that pretty much anyone who is a true enthusiast already has one (or many more!) If you are willing to search on ebay.us there are plenty of cars to choose from NIB sealed examples through to restoration projects!

I run a old stealth box on my cobra and it takes brushless with no problems, I also use the rc10 battery holder with a full size 6500 60c demon stick lipo and it does fit but its a little tight. I restored an rc10 team a while ago and it wasn't cheap to do so for me a re release would be my preferred choice. Alot of buggy drivers I have spoke to say if a re release became available, they would buy one but who knows if they would. Either way, unless associated confirm a re release, this is just speculation.

[southern racer]

The rear bulkhead is certainly tight on lipos, but if you remove a little of the plastic from the floor they seem to fit ( running 5300/5500 gens/ reedy ok). Started off playing safe with a 10.5 in mine but will be racing a 8.5 next meet. ( also trying the Hydradrive conversion on a pretty bumpy grass / dirt track.

A gold pan re release would appeal to the collectors for the shelf no doubt but anyone wanting to race an old RC10 could get a decent team car, plus plenty of spares /upgrades for the same money or less. Probably a couple of decent runners.

Still a true legend and deserving of a re release either way.

[Pabloman]

Originally Posted by DerbyDan

All the later released RC10s - Black tub Worlds & Team cars, Gold Pan CE (available through to end of production) & the later graphite came with the Stealth gearbox & slipper clutch which has the same basic internals that are still used in the B4 - so good the handle the torque of our modern brushless motors.... the battery mounting method remained the same with all the Ali-tubbed cars which is to be honest too tight beneath the rear bulkhead for most modern LiPo packs.

I'd like to see the RC10 re-released (so long as it was a faithfull reproduction & equal quality) - but I wonder actually how successfull it would be for Associated - there are so many of the original cars still out there that pretty much anyone who is a true enthusiast already has one (or many more!) If you are willing to search on ebay.us there are plenty of cars to choose from NIB sealed examples through to restoration projects!

I was thinking of something slightly different:

For the 30-year anniversary RC10 tribute car: A fully competitive version of the RC10.

Factory kit:

Ali Pan with built in weight mounts – in gold
Original RC10 body design
Rear motor – with mount in same style as original – in gold
Plastic all in white - B4.1 geometry arms in RC10 style – fittings for lipo shortys, saddles, sticks
Small bore B4.1 shocks / big bore springs – in gold – or big bores
2.2 wheels in chromed gold or white
CVD’s
B4 transmission - V2 Slipper – in stealth style housing – in white
Some kind of solid wing mounts for modern wings
Titanium hinge pins and turnbuckles
7075 rear hubs - in gold
CF mounts

Improved camber and caster setting ranges – same as B4
Angled steering cam perhaps

Factory Mid conversion kit – gold pan + 4 gear transmission – fits with RC10 style body – probably supplied by a third party.

RTR version available with a stars and stripes paint job
24th scale mini version available – same paint job

The Ali pans are a manufacturing nightmare compared to the plastic chassis – and perhaps don’t even handle as well. There’s surely got to be some development work to do with CF stiffening pieces, cut outs and weights? … But we do all want a gold pan – so the price could perhaps be justified.

This car then becomes the B5 Team car and goes on to win a major event … If the car turns out to be a winner … that’s got to be a half decent business plan for AE and partners?

I would buy one of these over an RB6 any day.