Thoughts and comments on splitting Mardaves into 2 classes...

[bedsrcmcc]

Evening all,

I've been noticing over the past few weeks now that some Mardave drivers have been running cars, that if we were to stay strict to the letter of the rules have clearly not followed the club rules that we introduced.

Now I'm not going even suggest those drivers lose their points in the Championships as that would simply cause grief among members. However I think we should now discuss/consider introducing a new Class that takes the current rules to the next step for those who want to do so.

I think we have to think carefully about why the club introduced Mardave in the first place, in my view it was a way to introduce a very basic and cheap form of racing and it's succeeded I think above and beyond what we ever thought. A lot of the members who run Mardave's do so because it's FUN and I couldn't agree more - fun close racing is what it's all about for me too.

Now I'm not one to stop development and competition and there are I feel some members who quite rightly enjoy pushing the envelope in the setting up of their cars and that should be applauded and encourage, but not to the detriment of those who simply do it for fun. At the same time though, those who do it for fun should still be allowed to race on a fair and level playing field - these are the kind of members who come along, race the car pack it away at the end of the night and never touch it until the next week. There is nothing wrong in that, likewise there is nothing wrong with those who like to tinker. I would hope that any club can accommodate both style of members and that's why I think we need to have a discussion about allowing a 'Mod Mardave Class' to be introduce.

In terms of rules for that - I personally have no thoughts or input as I'm not interested in that level of tinkering with the Mardave, I just do it for fun. Touring Cars is where I like to tinker So I'm quite happy to leave it to you all to thrash out some rules - or you could simple say anything goes...

You can therefore discuss going LiPo and Brushless, ball races all round and diff - you name it you can do whatever you like. It's over to you guys to discuss...

I have also listened to those who say that buying certain upgrades can be more cost effective in the long run - and maybe it can, but for instance both Mardave cars that I and my son run are straight out of the box, I have rear ballraces (allowed in current rules) and we both run a much better servo saver that we all agreed is best as the kit one is crap Now we've been running these two cars now for 2 Championships and have not spent a penny on anything other than Luke got a bent king pin at the front. We have not spent an extra penny and we still have great fun racing the cars and they are both still competitive among our fellow members. So in my mind the argument that some of these upgrades save money in the long run don't add up for me. I don't know what others are doing to cause the standard kit items to be damaged so much that causes the need for an upgrade as these cars in my eyes are pretty bullet-proof - especially when you see how we throw them about.

The other concerns I have over allowing extra upgrades to creep into the current rules is twofold - firstly, once we introduce 1 thing, pressure will mount to add something else and where do we stop? Secondly, these extra items may only be a few pounds here and a few pounds there, but it all adds up in the end we can't ignore the current financial climate we are in. Those of us who are parents will understand I'm sure.

So to summarise...

I think we should stick to the current rules (happy to ban com drops if you want) to make it even more simple and then we should police these rules to ensure everyone is keeping to them.

Then for those who want to push the development and upgrade of the class to include LiPo/Brushless or whatever you want, feel free.

At the end of the day, I'm not wanting to stop anyone racing at all. Just simply making clear what the boundaries are so that when someone new to the hobby comes along they can clearly see what they do and don't have to do.

So it's over to you lot now to anyone who wants to suggest rules (if any) you want for a Mod class. I did overhear one member last week say they would join in with Mardave's if we went LiPo Brushless so I think it's worth considering guys...

PS. I fully understand that technology moves on and probably within the next couple of years cells will vanish and everything will be LiPo, but until that time arises we continue using cells in the stock class.

[oli]

I must say that the main reason I started driving Mardaves was that I'd gotten tired of the constant 'Arms Race' of touring car driving. I find that the reduced speed of the stock Mardave motor allows very precise driving and for me that is where the main enjoyment lies - trying to achieve the perfect line and carry as much corner speed as possible without the brute force of a brushless or modified motor to tempt you into a more ragged driving style.

So given the choice, I would prefer to race in a totally stock Mardave class which allows kit parts only and does away with 'optional extra's' such as ally rear pods, after-market wheel hubs, delrin spurs, cryo coolers, comm drops etc. etc. ...

To be really honest most of these things have enormous 'bling' factor but don't really do that much to improve car speed or handling, in fact most are heavier than the originals so tend to actually hamper performance somewhat, apart from the ally pod which does keep the motor cooler for longer thus giving better performance towards the end of a race.

The best possible performance enhancing add-on is consistency and that is free with a bit of practice. Even for touring car drivers, if your average lap time is more than half a second slower than your fastest lap time then try slowing down your motor till you can consistently drive within half a second average to fastest and see the improvement...

[ek9russ]

Like above, I don’t think that the hop ups make much if any difference to the performance of the cars, but understand the point about being a fair playing field especially for people who don’t like to tinker and parents etc


If say for example there was a class for just the box standard cars, what would happen if someone added a clip on motor heat sink? Or changed the springs, or even modded the battery tray so the cells sit along the chassis rather than across?

Do people have a performance benefit if they have a larger selection of different compound tyres to try each night, what if people have better battery packs than others?

I do think that brushless, lipos, gear diffs etc should be in their own class as I think the cars will have benefits over the others.
I think the cells will become obsolete in the not so distance future, so having people at the club that are trying things out is always good for the rest of us

[HPI Paul]

Scott,

I don't know of anyone in the club who wants to run in a modified mardave class, so can't see the point of introducing it. We also need to be realistic in that some parts that don't come with the kits are sensible additions, e.g. Battery holder and bumper, different springs...

In reality I think there are only 2 things that some people are currently running that we might consider saying cannot be used, they are:

1. The z-drive with delrin spur: my personal opinion is that this is a low cost update on what was a pretty narly old spur, does not improve performance, just reliability and perfect for those that leave their car in the box between meetings. I certainly dont think it detracts from the spirit of the class, but if majority of people would like to see them not used, I'm fine with that.

2. The alloy rear motor carrier: a great upgrade but I agree it is expensive and against the spirit of the class. I am happy to see this banned?

Note that neither Robert or Graham are using the z drive and the banning of the alloy motor pod will only see their cars go marginally slower towards the end of the race as the motor overheats.

What other mods are people currently using that you would like to see banned?

Paul

[bedsrcmcc]

Personally I do not want to see anything banned. As I've already said I'm happy for people to tinker and upgrade to get the very best out of their car and that's why I suggest we split into two to allow those who want to tinker the ability to do so without too much control what they can't or can do.

I would then suggest that the 'stock class' should then be solely for out of the box cars as per our current rules and I'd be happy to stop the use of comm drops in the stock class.

We have around 30 members who race Mardave and only 4 people have put their thoughts on here...

I was going to email everyone tomorrow so I'll mention it.

There is another more radical approach to the stock class and that is kit tyres without additive - I wonder what people think of that?

In terms of other items on the cars currently - heatsinks have appeared which were also not discussed in the original rules. I understand why people run these, but I still come back to the newbie and his/her parents who are looking for a cheap entry into the racing scene. Bulk standard Mardave racing is a very attractive entry into RC racing and by restricting what can be spent should firmly put the focus onto the driving - a point that Graham makes very well above about driver skill and consistency being FREE

At the end of the day I can see the benefits of both options which is why I still think that having two classes could work - Stock and Mod. You may well find that some of the stock drivers will reach a point in time when they'd like to jump up to the mod class to start 'tinkering'.

I guess it's kind of the same philosophy we were thinking about with the introduction of the street class for Touring Cars - by restricting the rules and trying to put a cap on spending the focus would then swing to race craft...

[Andybra]

I don't mind either way. As long as- in standard class the rules are clear and adhered too. E.g. We run 1 car with a heatsink and 1 without. No one has ever said that there was an issue. We also had 1 with z drive and one without. The advantage of not having the silly flats wear out was the only reason. When Alisons broke I changed hers to z drive too. As long as the rules are clear and everyone plays by them we should be able to continue to have FUN as a club. After all, that's why we do it