TLR 22 2.0

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by Dr Fly

One final thought then i promise i will stop asking questions. In the video they talk about a new post-heat treating machined outdrive with flatter surface. However looking at the part number in the instruction manual (TLR2955), it is the same as the original. Any thoughts on this?

it's a running update, Was introduced in 22SCT kit so they have been available since last August/September

same outdrive, just face where drive ring sits has been machined so it's perfectly flat

[Gnarly Old Dog]

The machined plates have been available as part of the complete ball diff kit TLR232000 but if the manual is stating TLR2955 for the outdrives alone then I suspect it's been introduced as an interchangeable running change which means there will be mixed stocks of the old and new versions for a while.

Functionally there is little difference - I've not noticed any performance difference between the machined and non-machined outdrives but theoretically the new ones will be flatter.

I'm happy using either - I have one of the 'new' diffs and one of the old (i always carry a spare) and I can't feel any difference once they're both run in and adjusted correctly but maybe I'm just getting old ;-)

[Robby]

Dakotah Phend takes the 2013 2wd Modified Buggy ROAR U.S. National Championship with new 22 2.0!

[stegger]

Rear motored too on the Worlds track !

[Robby]

Originally Posted by stegger

Rear motored too on the Worlds track !

Dustin Evans finished 3rd, running a mid-motored 22 2.0

[cunawarit]

Originally Posted by Gnarly Old Dog

One of my personal favourites (thanks Frank) is the inclusion of a small retaining screw that now holds the forward rear wishbone pivot block and anti squat shim in place so you can remove the mid car gearbox without the rear suspension falling apart.

That alone makes it worth buying the V2.0! Needing 4 hands when removing the mid-motor gearbox is really the only thing that's made me swear repeatedly with the 22.

[MikePimlott]

So they tested bell cranks and they was better on high grip but it was too late to include it in the kit!!!

Will it be an option part ?

[PaulRotheram]

Such a shame theyre releasing this new update and have completely ignored the european market with pretty much every person whos rsn this car have all said the motor needs to be nearer to the outdrives rarther than the country mile it currently is.

[Frecklychimp]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

Such a shame theyre releasing this new update and have completely ignored the european market with pretty much every person whos rsn this car have all said the motor needs to be nearer to the outdrives rarther than the country mile it currently is.

The motor position is a myth and an excuse for drivers not being able to set up weight balance in a car using suspension or ballast... when 22 was released it was a noticable difference to other available cars so blamed for the cars handling quirks... all of which come from front end geometry.

Rudebits DB1, Team C TM2 and the 2/4WD Hybrids used at last national... how far away are their motors from outdrives?

what would you wish to achieve by having motor sat next to outdrives?

bellcranks is the key for making this model more driveable on high grip tracks with spikes and fake grass and glad TLR have at least acknowledged it and got bits in the works

[MikePimlott]

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

bellcranks is the key for making this model more driveable on high grip tracks with spikes and fake grass and glad TLR have at least acknowledged it and got bits in the works

Yep, lets hope the 22 V2.0 EU is here soon lol

[cunawarit]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

Such a shame theyre releasing this new update and have completely ignored the european market with pretty much every person whos rsn this car have all said the motor needs to be nearer to the outdrives rarther than the country mile it currently is.

I run a 22 and I am happy to attribute handling issues to my own inability to drive well as well and my set-up ineptitude. You'd never catch me pretending to know more than the Losi technical team. I'd rather judge a car by how it performs in the hands of the pros than my own hands.

[PaulRotheram]

I've never ran the car, nor wish to.. im expressing opinions of most people I know who have ran one and own one.
As already said, its a shame its not been taken on board as its a well known complaint - and off putting to others as its the first thing that's said about the car when spoken about.

[cunawarit]

If Frecklychimp is right and it is merely a myth, then I think there's a good chance that Losi did take it into account and concluded that the European public didn't know best.

[Robby]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

I've never ran the car, nor wish to.. im expressing opinions of most people I know who have ran one and own one.
As already said, its a shame its not been taken on board as its a well known complaint - and off putting to others as its the first thing that's said about the car when spoken about.

That was just the talk of those that are looking to "Buy Speed."
They weren't fast with their previous buggy, they weren't fast with the 22, and they weren't fast with their next buggy.

They're the same chaps that come on forums like this looking for set-ups. They don't spend the time working with their cars, trying things so they know how the car reacts - and instead try and rely on others' set-ups, regardless the fact they're not racing on the exact same surface, and regardless the fact their driving style isn't the same as those they're copying.

Originally Posted by Frecklychimp

The motor position is a myth and an excuse for drivers not being able to set up weight balance in a car using suspension or ballast... when 22 was released it was a noticable difference to other available cars so blamed for the cars handling quirks... all of which come from front end geometry.

[Robby]

Originally Posted by MikePimlott

Yep, lets hope the 22 V2.0 EU is here soon lol

But that is precisely what many of the geometry changes in the 2.0 addressed - higher grip surfaces - while maintaining the adjustability to lower traction surfaces that 90% of the rest of the world races on.

[PaulRotheram]

Hopefully it will help, USA are slowly coming to the mid cars now! At the last few ROAR nats a lot were running mid cars, especially the AE team with the centro!

[Robby]

Originally Posted by PaulRotheram

Hopefully it will help, USA are slowly coming to the mid cars now! At the last few ROAR nats a lot were running mid cars, especially the AE team with the centro!

The flip side of this whole argument, you should take a read of any of the U.S. forums. Most of the club level racers, whose tracks aren't high traction, and all pitching a fit over the (sugared) nats track.

Interesting fact, the lad that won the 2wd mod class was running a sort of "in-between" or hybrid car - rear motored, but using most of the other 2.0 upgrades.
As you can see (below) he'd brought a mid-motored car with him, and ran it during practice, and finally settled on his rear-motored car for the race because he said he was more consistent and could be more aggressive driving it.
As Cavalieri and Evans showed with the Centro 4.2 and Mid 22 2.0, they could get in faster flyer laps but it was hard to drive them lap after lap that way.


End of the day, no car is perfect out of the box. Never have been, never will. I've appreciated the running changes they've made over the last 2+ years, from 4mm steering knuckles to fixing the diff, and the 2.0 is just the next step in this progression.

[Razer]

Originally Posted by cunawarit

That alone makes it worth buying the V2.0! Needing 4 hands when removing the mid-motor gearbox is really the only thing that's made me swear repeatedly with the 22.

I did that mod over a year ago with a drill bit, countersink tool and a 3mm tap:P

It so nice to see that TLR have taken all the small details we all automatically alter for the better, and just done it for us! Love it!

[millser]

so all these changes will it work for us normal mortals ???????? that is the question

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Originally Posted by millser

so all these changes will it work for us normal mortals ???????? that is the question

Oh yes for sure.

I can't comment for the entire 2.0 package but for sure, the revised front geometry has a very positive effect on the driveability of the car - making it easier to push with and making it easier to go faster with.

Some of the changes are aimed at making it easier to work on and whilst the shock upgrades will improve the shock performance, it is the front end changes that will make the most significant feeling change over the 1.0