Brushless Options

[DaveG28]

Hi all,

am looking to upgrade my 4wd buggy to brushless, after the second meeting in a row today where my brushed system desoldered itself from heat!

Basically, was wondering if people could advise me on:

Is the LRP Sphere comp. a good speedo option?

Is the Orion Vortex a good motor to go for?

Also, what "turn" brushless (4.5, 5.5 etc) would give me at least as much speed as my existing 8x1 brushed motor, and if possible better battery life too?

Cheers,

Dave

[ashleyb4]

I run a nosram matrix evolution with an orion votex 7.5 motor iv never had a problem with this combo. Ive ran this combo for a while now and the motor stays relaly cool and so does the speedo. I would recomend the nosram over LRP i know they there the same but i have seen more LRP's go pop than Nosrams.

As for motor a 5.5 would be the quickest you would ever want to go.

A

[tc2k]

I run a nosram matrix evolution with an orion votex 7.5 motor iv never had a problem with this combo. Ive ran this combo for a while now and the motor stays relaly cool and so does the speedo. I would recomend the nosram over LRP i know they there the same but i have seen more LRP's go pop than Nosrams.

As for motor a 5.5 would be the quickest you would ever want to go.

A

Thats rubbish, i bet they go pop at the same rate, if theyre the same then why would there be a difference

[ashleyb4]

Maybe its witch craft but ive never seen a nosram matric evoltuion go pop but ive seen loads of lrp sphere competitions go pop.

A

[AndyM]

more LRP's go pop than Nosrams.




they are exactly the same, i think thats probaberbaberbaly because the LRP is more popular, nd more people have them.

also, i think the 5.5 is meant to be exquivalent to 7 turn brushed,

[DCM]

Maybe its witch craft but ive never seen a nosram matric evoltuion go pop but ive seen loads of lrp sphere competitions go pop.

A

Did you not know, they xray all boards, and them with better and cleaner solder joints are put in red cases and the lesser quality are put in blue cases..... serious.....

[Northy]

Leave off Ash, he actually said he's seen more LRP's pop, which is what he has seen, therefore he can not be wrong on this point. He did not say that they are less reliable.

G

[DaveG28]

Cheers guys, so if a 5.5 is an equivalnet to that low a motr, any idea what its equivalent to in battery drainage?

[Northy]

Brushless are more efficient ;)

G

[lazerboy]

Brushless motors equivalent to their brushed counterparts will have at least %20 longer run times b/c the motor doesn't have to work as hard to turn itself. thats why an 8.5 brushless is equal to a 15 turn brushed.(sounds opposite than it really is) When you go brushless do novak. B/c that's all they do, besides some 3 brushes speedo's. They are also cheaper and in my opinion look better that others with the purple and orange.

3.5
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNLY4&P=7
4.5
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMGJ2&P=7
5.5
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKSW0&P=7

And the only heatsink of it's type, one that is actually built into the motor, and is totally awesome looking.

Black
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNLZ3&P=7
purple
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNLZ5&P=7
blue
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNLZ7&P=7

Any small fan can be attached to these easilt as they are threaded to accept a fan. They do not need to be used with a fan though. To install these you actually take the purple sleeve off of the motor and put this on. Th heatsink cannot come off in a crash.

[DaveG28]

Thanks for the info, I had heard Novaks are less reliable though on brushless?

I have always run novak speedo's (currently run GTX's) and Orion motors (currently run various jansen edition motors), so do you know if the GTB is useable for brushed motors, and will it work with the orion vortex motors?

Are novak as reliable as LRP for these speedo's?

[Rob]

I would recomend the nosram over LRP i know they there the same but i have seen more LRP's go pop than Nosrams.

A

What a load of crap!

[lazerboy]

Yes, the gtb works for brushed motors, with no turn limit. The gtb's papers say it's useable with any novak motor. Novak does make a 3.5 turn motor so i would say yes. But just to be on the safe side order the velociti 3.5r, as it is only $6 more than theorion equivalent. if cooling is an issue, just add a heatsink with a fan, instead of a fan being spun by the motor. If the motor has to spin the weels and the fan, it's going to have to give up some power to the wheels.

[lazerboy]

Your gtb should have a fan on it, and if it doesn't, you can buy one. Rca did a review on the vortex motor, and they said it performed the same as novak and lrp motors. A 3.5 turn brushless is going to give you the power of a 6 turn brushed, and the run times of a 10. 4.5 Power=8 Runtime=12 so on and so forth. The main question is price looks and reliability, because they al perform about the same. I love what orion does with their brushed motors in the way of looks, but i don't know why they don't do that for their brushless. Plain black isn't my idea of good looking. The novak has cool colors, and the best looking(my opinion) motor heatsink ever. Now if you could just fing purple and orange wires to go alonk with it. And a new body, and some anodized aluminum, and new wheels, aw heck just get sponsored!

[DaveG28]

Hi,

Wouldn;t we all like to be sponsored, life would be much easier then!

Will the GTB work with the Orion motor then?

WIth comparisons brushless to brushed, how do I see that comparison, you mentioned 4.5 being equivalent to 8, I run 8 at the moment so this sounds ideal. However everyone I have asked has said 4.5 would be way too much overkill, whereas I find 8 turn fine (except for unsoldering itself every now and again!). Does this relate to the punch vs topend etc?

[lazerboy]

I know peeps who have the novak systems. They don't have problems. I don't know anybody who has the lrp or orion brushless. so i can't say bad stuff about them. The people who talk about exploding motors(literally) and speedo's that catch on fire are the ones who also say that their car can't take a jump without breaking. No! You can't go full throttle off of your roof and expect your car to live! NO! I've never broken anything other than cheap plastic traxxas axles, except whent i accidentaly dropped my tx while running my t-maxx and the batteries fell out. needless to say it smacked into a tree, and it left a mark. On the tree too.

[lazerboy]

i don't know if the orion will work. the best bet would be to call novak. You really need to get a good heatsink for your motor. I guess that they think that your asking about these systems that you don't know how to drive. If you can 4.5 isn't bad. It definitely has alot of top-end. You would gear it like the motor that your using, and yes it will have a little more torque because they don't make 7 turn brushed motors.

[DaveG28]

Thanks for the info again, just one final question. I have been fine on 5 minute races in my 501x all year with the 8 single, but in some outdoor conditions I am now dumping just at the end of the race. THis is despite having v expensive cells/charger (again all orion kit).

COmpared to the 8 single, will a 4.5 have less/equal/more battery run time? Also, same question for the 5.5!?

Thanks AGain,

Dave

[lazerboy]

:p!!!!!!I GOT KEY LIME PIE!!!!!:p

Because brushless is so much more efficient than brushed motors, the 4.5 will have abot 1 min more run time than the 8 turn.:pMMMMM SOOOOO GOOOOOD:p and the 5.5 will have even more.

[lazerboy]

i don't like tamiya

[lazerboy]

You would notice longer run times with a more efficient drive train.

[lazerboy]

like a lazer zx5

[GRIFF55]

Dave, personally i would go for a 5.5 max in your car as they are plenty quick enough for most tracks. I had the Nosram matrix evo tc in my tamiya with a storm evo 6.5 and thet was a good combo, solved all my heat issues too! Yesterday i had the 5.5 in my D4 and was considering putting the 6.5 back in, as it is alot more forgiving! No experience with novak brushless, so i can't comment.
Andy

[lazerboy]

He says that he runs 8's so, running a 5.5 would be like running a 10. No good. 4.5 definitely. And yes, brushless does run cooler. That is because there is no friction between the rotor and the "magnets" (really a buttload of copper wire.

[Chris Doughty]

He says that he runs 8's so, running a 5.5 would be like running a 10. No good. 4.5 definitely. And yes, brushless does run cooler. That is because there is no friction between the rotor and the "magnets" (really a buttload of copper wire.

4.5 is crazy fast, I ran one for legs 2 and 3 at southport and I didn't know what to do with it at the end of the straight.

on top of that the amount of low-mid pick-up out of the corners was just plain stupid, wheelies in 4WD.

[lazerboy]

So what?

[ashleyb4]

HAHA i think chris knows what he is talking about he has won a race or two.

A 4.5 is far to quick, winning races is not all about speed i run a 7.5 in my xx4. And its plenty fast enough.

A

[xx4-nutter]

lol a 7.5 isnt fast... :o

[DaveG28]

Hi Guys,

Cheers for the help so far, in terms of deciding between 4.5 and 5.5, my driving is very much reliant on pitching the car in and trying to generate a bit of wheelspin to bring the back round, so I would definitely want something punchy.

However, I get the feeling that my driving is not the best way of going about it, so maybe a little less torque would help me drive neater?

Dave

[ashleyb4]

I know i didnt say it was fast i said it was fast enough is only down the straight a faster motor catches you and with a 7.5 you can make time thought the corners and as most straights in the uk arent that long by the time a quicker motor gets up to a higher speed than you its the end of the straight. So unless you race on a track with a long straight it shouldnt make much diffrence.

A

[PaulRotheram]

a 5.5 is fast enough as is.. a 4.5 is too much for buggy racing, i would even say maybe a 6.5 would be ideal if your racing isnt up to scratch. But definatly not more than a 5.5 otherwise it'd be a waste of money.

[xx4-nutter]

id say a car with more grunt on a grass track is faster, indoors i recon the best motor and i beleive is most popular is the 6.5 ?

7.5 sounds like a good idea if you are wanting to change over from messing with brushed motor systems and dont run top end motors, if you are like my dad who races with a 19 turn motor and wants somthing a little faster with alot less maintainence over a brushed motor set up then its a good option..

[tc2k]

I run the 6.5 and its about an 11 turn equivalent so its on about par to the other cars. Bare in mind your cells, if there not very good, go down 1 turn. I dont think you can say a 4.5 is too fast, aslong as you dont go full throttle every corner then your fine

[lazerboy]

a 4.5 and a 5.5 have basically the same price. i've never even been to the uk, so i guess you guys have really small tracks. When i go to a track it's huge. Like 1/8 buggy huge, and allot of the guys run 3.5's. This is also with a 250' straight.

[xx4-nutter]

yep :) , i run the 4.5 and its ace, the power is there if u need it which is always helpful i think. but throttle controll is key lol !

end of the day its down to driver preference :p

[lazerboy]

the guys who say that they can't handle a 4.5 need to do some trigger finger excercises. I have a crt .5 with an O.S. eb mods .18tm. making 2.8 hp! I shred tires. When i hit full trigger the tires come off the wheels even they are glued. Twice. It easily hits 70mph.

[lazerboy]

just kidding, it's my friends.

[big air]

i had a lazer once used it for five minutes, put it in the bin after my dog finished chewing it. and bought a proper car :D

[lazerboy]

They have financial aid hospitals for people like you. What a wast of money. and as for your dog, get a leash. A good one. Maybe even a tazer. for both of you.

[big air]

lazer boy!!! have you actually raced on a track in england, the tracks in the usa are so wide they could race full size buggy's an them, do US tracks actually have corners/bends ???? i thought they were like the roads over there, HAIRPINS!!! :wtf: :D

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Hi all,

am looking to upgrade my 4wd buggy to brushless,

here's my spin on Nosram Matrix Evo ESC's, 3* & 4* motors

had 2 x 2006 esc both gone pop. Have owned from new

ESC
1. failed in car on Sunday & Batley. Ran OK for practice run. Put 2nd pack of cells in and car drove but no speed. Tried 3rd pack and esc/motor had a "misfire". Changed sensor lead and then esc setup lights played their own tune.

2. pick car up that hadn't run since Sept 2007 in may this year. Switched on and had no control over esc. Tried resetting it but no joy. Replaced under warranty with new item
Have a 2nd owner reversing version that has so far given no trouble.

Motors
1. new 4* installed for Bury regional last year. Failed due to motor circuit board failure. Replaced under warranty.
2. used 3* threw rotor. Had to buy a new rotor @ £20 as motor was claimed to be to old for warranty

[lazerboy]

Heres a good vid of a typical us track.

http://www.rc10b4.com/gallery/data/513/1Jconcepts_BJ4X4_4_rc10b4_com_1mbps_V8.wmv



takes a real long time to load, so just wait. not going race pace though, just a practice round.

[DaveG28]

Wow, things are not 100% friendly in this particular thread are they!!??

Ok, so if anyone knows this, if I can get 5 minutes just out of my 8x1 brushed motor, how will I do with a 4.5? And a 5.5?

Dave

[lazerboy]

4.5: 6min.
5.5: 7min.


And it's all good clean fun.

[Richard Lowe]

Heres a good vid of a typical us track.

http://www.rc10b4.com/gallery/data/513/1Jconcepts_BJ4X4_4_rc10b4_com_1mbps_V8.wmv
That looks pretty similar straight-wise to what we have here, somewhere like Southport would probably have a longer straight.

4.5's are fun but I don't think they really give much of an advantage, you get more low down acceleration but when you're lifting the front of a 4wd whats the point?

5.5 for 4wd and 6.5 for 2wd is about right, I would like a motor with the lesser torque of a 6.5 and top speed of a 5.5 for 2wd though. I borrowed a 7.5 for Kiddy 2wd and got bored driving it it was that slow, I can't see anyone wanting to use one unless the track is really slippy.

IMO LRP/Nosram are the better speedo's, but you pay for it as they are a lot more than the GTB. Out of LRP/Nosram and Novak, the Novak motors seem to be more reliable. The Orion's look good, I've not used one but the holes in the can might be a problem for letting things in, again I havn't run one so I'm just guessing.

[jim76]

i think there is a bit of difference between the LRP and Novak motors. The LRP's seem to be a bit quicker.

I run a Novak 6.5 in 2wd and to be honest it feels slow, i feel i need more punch and speed so am looking to go to 5.5

In 4wd i run the Novak 4.5 and this is perfectly driveable. We have 2 grass tracks in the region that end up dust bowls by the finals and it's still driveable. The torque out of corners isn't silly either.

I ran them both this season and have secured an F2 in both classes. I think a lot is down to driver ability, obviously a beginner wouldn't get a 4.5 round a track.
Also i think the LRP TC speedo with 6.5 is on a par with the Novak 5.5, hence why guys who run LRP's think a 4.5 is suicide. I think the LRP 4.5 would be a bit of a handful.

basically it boils down to the tracks you drive on and the style you like to drive. If people are having good results with 4.5s then you can't really state they are too fast, just because you wouldn't run it personally.

[Alan1467]

The Orion's look good but I've not used one and the holes in the can might be a problem for letting things in, again I havn't run one so I'm just guessing.

I ran an Orion 5.5 at Batley regional and it was good but as you say the holes are a problem, even in a 4WD TRF501x it sucked grass into the motor.

[DaveG28]

Hi all,

I'm running a 501x as well, not sure whether to be concerned with the orion motor, do other makes not have holes in the can?

I am keen on Orion just because I have always run them.

In terms of handling 4.5, I am in @15th in my region right now, although with a round to go a few top guys are missing a round, but am hoping to end up in the 20's, and haven't had any problems handling power in rc at all except when running mad modified tourers on short indoor tracks!


How much do the LRP motors cost then relative to the orion?

[DaveG28]

Ok,

looking at possible purchases from tower hobbies, and they do the LRP sphere comp esc with a X11 5.5 motor, is the X11 the top LRP motors in brushless?

Also, Lrp have a TC and none TC, I can imagine TC is touring car version, but does anyone know the difference between the 2, and which is bst in off road (4wd)?

[ashleyb4]

The TC version comes with a heatsink and a fan also has a bigger power cap. I know alot of people run the TC as it runs cooler. As for ordering from tower hobbies it wont be any cheaper speaking to someone at the weekend they said everything coming from america is being stung with import tax. So after shipping and import tax it wont work out any cheaper. Also it is good to support the UK shops.

You can get the Nosram matrix evolution TC version from doom at a good price.

http://dcracing.co.uk/dcrshop/product_info.php?cPath=56_138&products_id=1357

There isnt any diffrence between nosram and lrp.

A

[AndyM]

is the X11 the top LRP motors in brushless?



yup, :)

[GRIFF55]

I'd go for the tc version as it will stay cooler. can only be a good thing!
I fitted the nosram one into my Tam no problem.

[DaveG28]

Cheers again for the help guys!

[DaveG28]

Ok, I can get hold of a brand new TC spec LRP Sphere COmp with 4.5 motor for £140 (I am aware of tax situation etc, this is fht final price).

If I buy a 5.5 separately does anyone think I wonlt get 5 minutes run time out of the 4.5 in a 501x? Based on just making 5 mins with that 8x1!

Dave

[GRIFF55]

i wouldn't have thought run time would be an issue as long as you gear it as per instructions or recommendations.
The 5.5 should be ample for where we race.

[Richard Lowe]

If I buy a 5.5 separately does anyone think I wonlt get 5 minutes run time out of the 4.5 in a 501x? Based on just making 5 mins with that 8x1!

Dave
You should make 5 minutes with the 4.5 and good cells, but everything will get really hot and the laptimes probably won't be any better than a 5.5 ;)

[DaveG28]

Hi,

I know 4.5 may be no quicker, but in term sof what I can get hold of I am looking at the TC version with 4.5, or the none tc with 5.5, and as the TC cmes with fan if I can make 4.5 last long enough then may as well get that!?

To be honest though, think I will get one of each, always need a backup and it will let me sell off another lump of brushed kit I own!?